Discretion a two way street?

[MassageAdam]

@nycman No need to be nasty and name calling.... It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I'm just saying there are easier ways to to see that massage therapists might be doing other things than finding this web site and scrolling through all the messages.... Just being realistic.

[+ nycman]

@nycman No need to be nasty and name calling.... It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I'm just saying there are easier ways to to see that massage therapists might be doing other things than finding this web site and scrolling through all the messages.... Just being realistic.

 

That wasn't directed at you personally.

I appologize if you took it that way.

I was addressing the masses.

Of which I am one as well.

[LivingnLA]

@Baron, I get that, but when they are advertising $150 for a massage when you can go to any legit massage shop for a massage for $60, would any normal person think that you get something else, cuz why would anyone pay $150 to go to someone's house for a massage.

 

It depends on where you live. In much of California and many American metropolitan areas, $60/hr is a student rate for legitimate therapeutic massage. Anything less and you're certain to be with someone who doesn't have a formal education or someone who is shady or even involved in human trafficking.

 

I tend to pay in the $120-200 per hour range for legitimate professional massage from therapists with many years of experience. These are paramedical professionals who know exactly what they're doing and are frequently more effective than pain meds or surgery for a whole variety of therapeutic issues.

 

$150 an hour is well within that range. But, it's more about context and expectation. If that was the rate for someone from bp, cl, rm, or whichever finder site you use, then yes erotic activity would be heavily implied. Hell, just the shirtless pics alone suggest that since nudity of the person doing the massage is generally illegal/unethical in the USA.

[MassageAdam]

@LivingnLA I used to be a massage therapist...It's unethical for a student to charge for a massage. So, I don't get the $60/hr is a student rate argument. You may have to pay the $120 to $200 at a very high end spa, but you pay for the whole spa experience. Someone's one bedroom apartment is not a spa experience and I would never pay that for a legit massage unless I was at a high end spa.

[LivingnLA]

@MassageAdam You're right. They call it a "donation for time" and in my experience it's completely acceptable not to donate anything if the massage is bad. I don't pay for "spa experiences" unless I'm going to a spa. When I go to a massage therapist, I pay for expertise. Just like good doctors or lawyers, I want someone who knows exactly what they're doing.

 

The guy who works on us usually comes to us. We have a room set up for it and he's $2/min, so $120/hr. He's helped me avoid some surgeries that have coin-flip odds, so I'm happy to pay him for his time and expertise. The $200 comment I made is in reference to a woman who's been in massage for decades, studied with the masters and is one. I only go to her when it's something very specific and something my regular guy can't resolve. She's a magician and in fairness, her rate is $200 per session and the session takes as long as it takes. Once, it was two hours. Usually, it's around 45min.

[samK]

Has any masseur ever, ever lost their license because of what someone said on a massage site, ever?

Yes this has happened to a masseur I had used in the past, but it was because he advertised "draping optional" and in FL draping is the law.

I like this forum because it is fun, social and full of people who love massage that can share their honest experiences. I have found great masseurs from other users recommendations and a few to stay away from. It is safe to say that "oversharing" as some users do... Yes - absolutely it happens and as @Daniel84 is suggesting - maybe we think more about the masseurs well being/ licenses before we post overshared comments or PM's.

On the other hand, there are a lot of escorts or non-licensed guys tring to make a buck- doing " massage" ie HE rubs, without proper training and it is the client who is being taken advantage of or possibly injured. I think it is also safe to say that these guys posing as masseurs can be more openly chatted about here in a SPA forum, because the odds are.... they are not licensed and have nothing to worry about except getting caught by officals. (not that I want that for anyone) but it helps make forum users aware or differentiate legit massage from rubs/ other escort type services.

I do feel bad for Licensed Massage Therapists, because of the amount of "cross-over masseurs" and with human trafficing becoming more of a public focus & topic... legit masseurs have all these new restrictions, guidelines and they even having to get finger printed just to renew their licenses. But I thank you guys for sharing who is who here.

[+ EVdude]

Some incredibly thoughtful posts here...

 

Unlike hiring an as advertised escort, there are so many shades of gray when it comes to hiring a "masseur". There are purely therapeutic licensed masseurs that never cross boundaries. There are licensed masseurs that do cross boundaries. There are purely therapeutic non-licensed masseurs (some as good or better than licensed masseurs) that won't offer a single extra, and likewise those that go sensual making us happy in the end. There are escorts who happen to give a good massage and advertise as masseurs. Finally, various greyer shades that know nothing about massage but advertise as such (many that provide very happy making services subscribed to by satisfied members of this forum) and then those who we want to avoid with zero skill in any area that are in it to make a buck.

 

Take that wide spectrum of guys offering massage, overlay it with the multi-faceted range of customers, many of whom (like me) that move across the spectrum depending on their immediate need and mood, and voila... you have the shit show known as THE SPA.

 

Yes, we should all mind our P's and Q's to the extent possible. I still don't understand what the moderators here consider a review (or not). Aside from personal details that are always deleted, I don't recall many discussions being halted or edited. The reality is that we live in an open socially electronic age in which everything is recorded and likely monitored. Just like we all take our chances in terms of STDs because we choose to, we are here taking part of our own volition as masseurs and customers, and have to accept the consequences of doing so. If one is overly concerned and worried about what one reads here, then one is likely playing or working in said section of the spectrum that perhaps one should not be. Not pointing any fingers, just saying.

[LivingnLA]

I agree with everything, except this:

 

we are here taking part of our own volition as masseurs and customers, and have to accept the consequences of doing so.

 

because the people doing massage have no say in what people share on this or other forums and that's the point. They're the ones who shoulder the risk and have the most to lose, excluding very discreet clients--but they probably wouldn't post indiscreetly since they appreciate discretion.

[+ EVdude]

@LivingLA Indeed, that's the minding Ps and Qs part. But there are just certain realities that they must accept in today's social world, and if they are so worried about indiscretion then they must either make it clear to clients that they expect discretion or simply not do things that will get them into trouble if they were talked about. There is one masseur that I see regularly that does not actively advertise, doesn't want reviews or only accepts business through well vetted referrals. He is very direct about his desire for privacy and I totally respect that. Also, discretion is nuanced. There is another masseur who monitors what is said here. I went a tad overboard (for him) in one particular case. Even though it was a positive comment, he politely asked me to edit it. Done.

 

This thread alone is a great example with masseurs starting it and taking part. But, to me, it seems naive to simply assume discretion.

[Capitano]

@LivingLA Indeed, that's the minding Ps and Qs part. But there are just certain realities that they must accept in today's social world, and if they are so worried about indiscretion then they must either make it clear to clients that they expect discretion or simply not do things that will get them into trouble if they were talked about. There is one masseur that I see regularly that does not actively advertise, doesn't want reviews or only accepts business through well vetted referrals. He is very direct about his desire for privacy and I totally respect that. Also, discretion is nuanced. There is another masseur who monitors what is said here. I went a tad overboard (for him) in one particular case. Even though it was a positive comment, he politely asked me to edit it. Done.

 

This thread alone is a great example with masseurs starting it and taking part. But, to me, it seems naive to simply assume discretion.

 

I agree with everything! And let me also add that some, if not many, masseurs that I have visited wish masseurfinder and other sites would allow them more freedom in posting more explicit descriptions and pictures. So the same comment posted here can be very indiscreet and undesirable for some masseurs but totally fine and desirable for others.

 

Having said that, I have now undertaken editing and cleaning up of my prior comments (~11% done at this point) and will be more careful from now on. Even in my private conversations, because one never knows who he is talking to. And even though I have been gauging my level of explicitness to what I thought the masseurs, especially those I like and recommend, would be fin e with. So from now on, I'll try to get a more direct confirmation as to what they are comfortable with.

 

In any case, this was a very good issue to raise, thanks!

[LivingnLA]

@EVdude, naive? Maybe, but I've known many medical and paramedical professionals who have no clue about the diversity of online reviewing going on about their fields. I agree with all that you said and agree that communication is key both from the client and the massage provider. Any time anyone makes assumptions, asses are made and not in a good way.

[fratphysicals]

Not sure I agree with the mindset in most of this discussion. While I understand the need for discretion, when a masseur makes the decision to offer their services and decides to potentially offer some extras, that's the risk they choose to take. Some of these masseurs are making well over $100k/year, and some not claiming anything to avoid paying taxes, so to ask for complete discretion in an attempt to literally take no risk and reap the benefits, in my opinion is not the same as maintaining a clients privacy. This forum is one of the only ways to verify that a masseur or a session is as advertised and we are the customers willing to pay $100+ for that service.

 

The fact that @Daniel84 said he could out politicians and celebrities if he wanted to, makes me 100% sure that I won't be setting anything up with him. That said, would I ever reveal a masseurs real name, location, full details, on this forum? No. But I will continue to provide feedback regarding a session on here which will include services offered by the masseur.

[Daniel84]

Not sure I agree with the mindset in most of this discussion. While I understand the need for discretion, when a masseur makes the decision to offer their services and decides to potentially offer some extras, that's the risk they choose to take. Some of these masseurs are making well over $100k/year, and some not claiming anything to avoid paying taxes, so to ask for complete discretion in an attempt to literally take no risk and reap the benefits, in my opinion is not the same as maintaining a clients privacy. This forum is one of the only ways to verify that a masseur or a session is as advertised and we are the customers willing to pay $100+ for that service.

 

The fact that @Daniel84 said he could out politicians and celebrities if he wanted to, makes me 100% sure that I won't be setting anything up with him. That said, would I ever reveal a masseurs real name, location, full details, on this forum? No. But I will continue to provide feedback regarding a session on here which will include services offered by the masseur.

 

There is a big difference from could and would. Having been in this business a very long time; with a big following and loyal clients I would never do anything to jeopardize my character.

 

I never contact any of my clients unless I am given permission to contact because I value my discretion and their discretion.

 

You have completely taken my words out of context. I was only wishing for the same amount of discretion I give my clients.

[jazzfan]

"With so many legal problems law enforcement already has their hands tied with, I find it outrageous that they find available staff in their busy days to attempt to nail massage therapy providers."

 

Many District Attorneys have elected positions. No better way to prove that you're 'TOUGH ON CRIME' than going after those SMUTTY GAYS HAVING WONTON SECKSUAL ACTIVITY. Driving the masses to the polls over and over again led to Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[jazzfan]

This has been an interesting discussion. To take it back to first principles, Daniel84 is merely asking that comments here be of a general nature. It serves him. It serves you. Period.

[DadBearDallas]

Has any masseur ever, ever lost their license because of what someone said on a massage site, ever?

Don't know that is the point. Frankly...its not too hard to figure out who's licenced and who's not. I agree that discretion should go both ways.