Question about PrEP, effectiveness, etc.

[KennF]

Just as it takes time to reach maximum effectiveness, it takes time to reach zero effectiveness. It isn't an on/off switch.

 

If you take it every day as prescribed, then it is 98-99%+ effective. If you take it half as often as prescribed, it is still effective, but only mid-90's% effective. If you take it one pill every three days, then it is only about 70's% effective.

 

I don't know of any studies that measure how long the lingering effect lasts.

 

 

On a side note, I'd be a little concerned at the Russian roulette approach. This isn't an absolute. And, PrEP isn't about gaming the numbers.

 

HIV should be taken serious, as there isn't a cure, yet. Living with it requires a great deal of dedication and discipline. HIV treatment meds are much better and I, personally, know people who have been living HIV+ for decades. They survive because they take it seriously. It becomes a significant factor in their lives, health, emotionally, socially, and financially.

 

So, if you are serious about understanding the risk and taking precautions, and you really have issues with being able to take PrEP regularly, then use condoms. Bareback is not more important than your health.

 

Just my tuppence.

[Mocha]

HIV should be taken serious, as there isn't a cure, yet. Living with it requires a great deal of dedication and discipline. HIV treatment meds are much better and I, personally, know people who have been living HIV+ for decades. They survive because they take it seriously. It becomes a significant factor in their lives, health, emotionally, socially, and financially.

 

HIV is more and more hip culture propaganda than an actual entity. "POZ +" Yeah dude high 5 to that! I really don't like having this kinda discussion, but it doesn't hurt to start speaking up for what I believe in.

 

What do you mean take HIV seriously? There isn't a cure? Of course there is, theoretically. You've got prep and the plethora of other antiretrovirals out there. If you can get "it" down to 0 and it be undetectable and not transferable....that's a cure in of itself. I wish there was a prep for the common seasonal viruses and such (flu virus isn't one of them).

 

In the short time I lived in Nashville, I got very close and immersed myself in the entire Black HIV prevention community. The activities, the conferences, the meetings, the people, the whole entire HIV "thing". The way they're preaching to young Black folks as if it's the number #1 killer and something that White folks don't have to contend with was absolutely bogus to me.

 

Believe HIV, don't believe HIV. I don't care. I for one have never touched an HIV pill in my life and won't dare get on a regime unless I'm so sick and the only medicine available to fix it is an ARV. Which is doubtful because if you are a straight White man who's never had butt sex, that option would never be presented. That's why I recommended in another thread that some bi-straight white guys need to get tested for other stuff, because they're not being recognize as a statistic.

 

I know people who take the drugs and are still sick. I've known people never to take the drugs and are fine. And for people to discuss they're on Prep to a potential sex partner, I have a hard time believing most people on a daily Prep regime, do so so they can still use condoms.

 

"Negative and on Prep" has become a simile for people who either A) like to bareback or B) a status symbol of White purity and alluding to having health coverage. Bitch, I don't care if you're on prep, I just need to know when was the last time you douched that ass and the last time you had your throat swabbed.

[KennF]

There isn't a cure? Of course there is, theoretically.

 

No, there isn't. Once infected with the virus, the virus doesn't leave. It can't be removed from your body.

 

You've got prep and the plethora of other antiretrovirals out there. If you can get "it" down to 0 and it be undetectable and not transferable....that's a cure in of itself.

 

Treatment is NOT a cure. Making in less communicable isn't a cure. Let's be clear on a few things...

 

You can never get the viral count to ZERO. Undetectable doesn't mean that the viral count is ZERO. It only means that it is below the minimum threshold for the test. Sometime in the past year, most labs won't report that term, instead the reports read "Less than 100, or less than 50 ppm.

 

The meds are effective treatment as a suppressant of the virus, but that's all it is right now... a treatment and suppressant.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

No, there isn't. Once infected with the virus, the virus doesn't leave. It can't be removed from your body.

 

 

 

Treatment is NOT a cure. Making in less communicable isn't a cure. Let's be clear on a few things...

 

You can never get the viral count to ZERO. Undetectable doesn't mean that the viral count is ZERO. It only means that it is below the minimum threshold for the test. Sometime in the past year, most labs won't report that term, instead the reports read "Less than 100, or less than 50 ppm.

 

The meds are effective treatment as a suppressant of the virus, but that's all it is right now... a treatment and suppressant.

 

 

Good reply, especially to someone who's more concerned with playing the race card than actually having medical knowledge

[KennF]

Oh, as long as I'm at it, here are a couple of other items...

 

I for one have never touched an HIV pill in my life and won't dare get on a regime unless I'm so sick and the only medicine available to fix it is an ARV.

 

The whole idea of using a PrEP (Pre-Exposure Prophylactic) is to PREVENT you from getting sick.

Being "so sick" that "the only medicine" is an anti-retroviral is short-sighted. If you are exposed, it is better to start on a PEP (Post-Exposure Prophylactic) treatment in the hopes of preventing the virus from infecting your cells. If that doesn't work, then you'd move onto a permanent full treatment course of ARV.

 

Which is doubtful because if you are a straight White man who's never had butt sex, that option would never be presented.

It is also transmitted through vaginal sex and any body fluid contact to body fluid contact.

From the CDC website:

"Men can also get HIV from having vaginal sex with a woman who’s HIV-positive

because vaginal fluid and blood can carry HIV. Men can get HIV through the opening at the tip of the penis (or urethra); the foreskin if they’re not circumcised; or small cuts, scratches, or open sores anywhere on the penis. Using condoms or medicines to protect against transmission can decrease this risk."

 

 

White folks

HIV doesn't see the color of the skin.

HIV doesn't see your gender.

HIV doesn't know your age.

HIV doesn't practice any religion.

HIV doesn't know your ethnicity or national origin.

HIV doesn't know your genetics, history, life style, sexual identity, socio-economic background, whether you have healthcare or anything else.

[TruthBTold]

Once you are on PrEP (Truvada, etc.) can you go off without any side effects, such as not being able to go on again at a later date? Can a person go off PrEP all at one time or do you have to titrate off the medication as you do other meds, such as epilepsy medications?

[Mocha]

Good reply, especially to someone who's more concerned with playing the race card than actually having medical knowledge

 

Girl, Hush. No one is playing the race card, it's how the medical field (since you want to talk about it) classifies risk levels and risk factors among patients. Simply being Black is apparently a HIGHER risk factor of HIV. You'd sound like a goddamn clown to not understand or know how often HIV is often related to Blacks in all aspects of the HIV paradigm. Hell, there was just a report out yesterday of White people having alarming cases of colon cancer. Did ya fucking know that? It's nothing about race card, it's about being a statistic based on MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE.

 

I'm not going to get caught up arguing over this. I'm just going to copy/paste the same thing I did in the other thread. I know it's going to be pointless conveying any information to people who are set on their own realm of knowledge, and frankly I don't give a....BUT, I'm tired of the same old tired information being spewed. When the fuck is anyone going to be open to the alternative theory and let a gay man make decisions for himself?

 

http://whatifeverything.com/whatif/index.html

(Book)

 

Www.Aliveandwell.org

(more detailed, takes 2-3 days to cover)

 

http://www.questioningaids.com/?page_id=11

( that site no longer has a forum but has other relevant material)

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Girl, Hush

 

I can just picture you wearing a caftan right now, sipping on some kind of fruity pink drink while saying that.

 

Mrs Roper, eat your heart out.

 

[+ WmClarke]

Once you are on PrEP (Truvada, etc.) can you go off without any side effects, ... ?

Yes, you can.

 

Can a person go off PrEP all at one time or do you have to titrate off the medication as you do other meds, such as epilepsy medications?

You can stop all at once.

[Mocha]

It is also transmitted through vaginal sex and any body fluid contact to body fluid contact.

From the CDC website:

"Men can also get HIV from having vaginal sex with a woman who’s HIV-positive

because vaginal fluid and blood can carry HIV. Men can get HIV through the opening at the tip of the penis (or urethra); the foreskin if they’re not circumcised; or small cuts, scratches, or open sores anywhere on the penis. Using condoms or medicines to protect against transmission can decrease this risk."

 

 

 

HIV doesn't see the color of the skin.

HIV doesn't see your gender.

HIV doesn't know your age.

HIV doesn't practice any religion.

HIV doesn't know your ethnicity or national origin.

HIV doesn't know your genetics, history, life style, sexual identity, socio-economic background, whether you have healthcare or anything else.

 

 

I know, I know. All stuff I've heard a million times. But let's do more reading, and less typing:

 

http://www.aliveandwell.org

http://www.aliveandwell.org/images/viral_load_header.jpg Related Articles • FAQ's

What's Up with Viral Load?

 

I can just picture you wearing a caftan right now, sipping on some kind of fruity pink drink while saying that.

 

I don't drink fruity pink drinks unless it's sex on the beach, nor do I dress in drag. But if I did, I'd know what to do with it.

 

[TruthBTold]

Yes, you can.

You can stop all at once.

 

Thanks, I thought I might be attacked for the questions.

[KennF]

I know, I know. All stuff I've heard a million times. But let's do more reading, and less typing:

 

http://www.aliveandwell.org

http://www.aliveandwell.org/images/viral_load_header.jpg Related Articles • FAQ's

What's Up with Viral Load?

 

Yes. More reading and less typing.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive_%26_Well_AIDS_Alternatives

 

The organization that wrote that website, which also admits that the content is not being updated, is a well known denial group. The founder and primary source died at 52 of pneumonia. Her 3 year old died of AIDS related pneumonia, which sued the county trying to rescind the coroner's cause of death.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-christine-maggiore30-2008dec30-story.html

 

So, yes... More reading.

[+ WmClarke]

Thanks, I thought I might be attacked for the questions.

The Facebook group @Eric Hassan cited above is a great resource for PrEP questions. It's the one I also (obliquely) mentioned earlier. It's very well moderated. The link is in Eric's message:

If you're on Facebook, I highly recommend joining the "PrEP Facts" page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/PrEPFacts/). My best friend started this group about 4-5 years ago, and it's been recognized by the WHO and other organizations as a resource about PrEP. Damon has been invited to speak at CROI and other HIV/ID conferences to discuss how to share information and connect consumers with appropriate care. There are tens of thousands of other people on the group, including many doctors and other healthcare professionals. Gilead knows about the group and supports Damon (not financially), but doesn't promote the group, which I think has something to do with Pharma laws. Anyway, check out the group - there are links to the research and conversations about all kind of sex/HIV/PrEP related topics. It's a great resource to find out the facts, ask questions, talk to other users, get information, etc.

[LivingnLA]

Please knock off the HIV/AIDS denialism. Just like climate change denialism, it isn't helpful and does great harm long-term.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_denialism

 

Now, if we wanted to talk about the epidemiological issues related to STD/STI incidence by racial identification, then it's useful to discuss the impact of class and how reduced socioeconomic status seems to result in worse education and health outcomes. In other words, poverty seems to do lifelong harm to people psychologically and physiologically which leads to more difficult education and health outcomes.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/std/stats14/minorities.htm

 

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/11_Wilson-Race-PovertyandAIDSinBlackAmerica-1.pdf

 

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/storage/advfy/documents/hivdisparities.pdf

[Mocha]

Yes. More reading and less typing.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive_&_Well_AIDS_Alternatives

 

The organization that wrote that website, which also admits that the content is not being updated, is a well known denial group. The founder and primary source died at 52 of pneumonia. Her 3 year old died of AIDS related pneumonia, which sued the county trying to rescind the coroner's cause of death.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-christine-maggiore30-2008dec30-story.html

 

So, yes... More reading.

 

Maggoire gave birth to her son, Charlie, and his younger sister, Eliza Jane, at home and breast-fed both, although research indicates that it increases the risk of transmission. Eliza Jane Scovill died in 2005 from what the coroner ruled was AIDS-related pneumonia. Maggiore and Scovill, however, hired a pathologist who concluded that the girl died of an allergic reaction to the antibiotic amoxicillin.

[Mocha]

Please knock off the HIV/AIDS denialism. Just like climate change denialism, it isn't helpful and does great harm long-term.

 

Stop comparing Apples and orangutans. Or chimpanzees, whatever that thing is on your avatar pic.

 

I'm not knocking ish off. I'm just on board with questioning certain things. Just because I question things about HIV doesn't mean i don't believe in medicine (i occasionally experience asthma so I won't hesitate to go to the doctor or hospital and get drugged the fuck up if need be), the holocaust or the moon landing. People always want to compare other theories to something unrelated.

 

Like I say, I'm not going to argue this. It's too complex, and I'm still learning so I can only provide references. I do what I do for my peace of mind, you can do what you wanna for yours.

 

One thing for sure: the one black friend I knew that has died in my lifetime, wasn't from HIV. And this was someone who was a "rolling stone". I didn't know his HIV status, but I don't know of anyone who's died of HIV based on not taking medicines.

 

But again, i can't continue to argue this. I know people have strong opinions about these things.

[Good Grief]

http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-i-think-a-performer-should-do-his-work-and-then-shut-up-richard-widmark-101-97-73.jpg

[LivingnLA]

Stop comparing Apples and orangutans. Or chimpanzees, whatever that thing is on your avatar pic.

 

The sources you provided are exactly like climate change denialism. There isn't any legitimate science behind them. The research linking HIV and AIDS is well established. Is it perfect? Nope. But, rigorous science isn't a belief in perfection. It's about the preponderance of evidence and ideally personal beliefs have nothing to do with it, though dealing with human biases is a whole other discussion.

 

This kind of denialism is dangerous. Some estimates say over half-a-million South Africans have been infected and well over 300k have died because HIV/AIDS denialism is believed there enough to drive public policy.

 

Check out the denialism wikipedia page if you want some good info about the whole thing, along with info about denialists who no long deny the linkage. The research has progressed quite a bit since the early '90s. Happy reading!

[kewtex]

…but I don't know of anyone who's died of HIV based on not taking medicines.

 

I've known people never to take the drugs and are fine.

 

I do know someone who died from untreated HIV. Left untreated, HIV will lead to death, directly or indirectly.

 

I am flummoxed that we are still having this debate after 30-plus years of dealing with HIV.

[Isac]

I've been on PreP for 6 months and haven't been using condoms at all since I started. I'm still negative and haven't catched anything thankfully. I love the feeling of cumming inside a nice ass

[+ oldNbusted]

The vivid dreams have continued, better than TV.