Getting close

[MikeyGMin]

So think of the money you pay as a theater or movie ticket. The show only happens when you're paying.

I think this is a pretty good analogy for first times and one-off meetings, but doesn't quite do justice to the nature of a regular arrangement and the middle ground that can develop between pure performance and genuine feelings.

 

My favorite escort of all time told me early on in our relationship that he can tell the difference between "I love you man!" (perfectly fine) and "I am in love with you." (going to be a problem.) And, to me, that's the difference between healthy affection and unrealistic emotional attachment.

 

I have great fondness for two guys that I see regularly and I am confident they're fond of me also, but that's the extent of it -- fondness. I keep myself in check by allowing myself to love the arrangement but not the man. It allows for some genuine affection when we're together, but keeps everything in a healthy perspective.

 

That works for me. Other's mileage may vary.

[john1973]

I love dwelling in the middle ground of things. I think that all the roles we play in life are somewhat scripted by society--being a good mother or a soccer mom, a caring son (who calls mom every so often), a reliable friend (who is loathe to turn down an invite when a friend reaches out after months or years of no contact). I don't mean to imply it's simply fake. But, unlike most of your friendships, the relationship with a provider is built on a transaction. While the goodwill and caring may persist beyond that transaction, the relationship dwells and thrives within it. If you ask a provider to accompany you to a doctor's appointment that makes you anxious, you better pay your provider unless they insist on a reprieve, once or twice in your relationship. With a close friend or buddy, you can ask such a favor multiple times and expect to owe nothing more than to keep them abreast of how you're doing. My point is simply that, if there's a line dividing friend from a beloved provider, it behooves you to discern where that line is at stare at it until you're able to accept that basic truth about your relationship with them.

[AdamSmith]

I definitely have deep feelings for some of my boys. It is part of the joy of meeting them.

THIS!

[Reluctant Daddy]

but I think you need professional counseling

 

Funny you should mention it. I've actually been seeing a therapist for the past sixth months. She fully supports my continuing to see him so long as I can establish clear boundaries with him. Something about him brought out my need to be better, and whatever it was, it's a very healthy step forward in her eyes. Maybe it's because he's one of the fist people in a very long time who wasn't judgmental and critical, and was supportive and offered suggestions and comments on improvement. I wasn't in a good place with myself and others, I didn't feel good about myself for a very long time before we met. That's changed, and I feel much better with and about myself and who and what I am, and I will always be fond of him, and indebted to him for that.

 

I have no delusions of him falling in love with me, a Disney ending to our relationship, him playing Jack to my Rose, or him being my soulmate or BFF. I consider him a friend (as in "I love you man"), whether it's reciprocated or not. It just stings a little that the feeling may not be there for him. Will it devastate me? Not really, but it will leave a little hole in my heart. And it may keep me from being so open or trusting of others in the future.

[+ José Soplanucas]

@Reluctant Daddy , I am glad you are working on yourself with professional help. Sometimes it worries me how people look for advice in very personal and intimate matters to a bunch of people who hide behind nick names and avatars.

Your last post make me feel better, you sound emotionally balanced. You may need to discuss your last paragraph with your counselor. It is fine to feel bad when we are not corresponded, what it is not healthy is to emotionally withdraw out of fear. Maturing and growing up is, amongst many other things, learning to cope with the pain that others cause to us, without giving up on building affective relationships.

[MikeyGMin]

Something about him brought out my need to be better, and whatever it was, it's a very healthy step forward

I would encourage you to take the nudge this has givin you, consider it a blessing, and not spoil it by crossing the boundaries you know are there. I don't want to be a Pollyanna about it, but it is a blessing when something (anything) comes along to pull you out of a bad rut.

 

I don't want to repeat myself because I've told the story here before, but I went into a decade-long decline after the death of my partner many years ago. It was an escort who reawakened something in me, some kind of spark that quite literally changed my life. (Holy Pollyanna!) He was a regular for about a year before he moved away. He has no idea of the impact he made on my life, but I will be eternally grateful.

[ChristianCronin]

I had a client who only hired me twice. We first connected because of music; me being a pianist and him being a singer. He was very reluctant to give details about his life that aren't even intimate! For example- before he said he was a singer, he showed me a video of him singing at a coffeeshop and tried to tell me that the video was his brother singing. Maybe I should have left it alone, but I immediately said "that's obviously you!" I'm not too sure why he wanted to hide that. Then he asked if he could take me to dinner sometime which I agreed to, but we didn't end up going. He also asked numerous questions about being gay. The questions he asked were questions that would come up on a list of "most ridiculous questions to ask a gay man." Just to give context; he asked if your butt gets bigger from being penetrated. He also assumed I was sexually abused and had no father growing up-both are untrue.

 

The second time he hired me, he was saying how he does like men, but he knows he'll end up marrying a woman and having children. He's from Haiti and told me how his family would never approve. I tried to make him feel better by saying that my family is the same way and that I'm not living to please them. I also said if he marries a woman, that doesn't change that he's interested in men. Then he said how he'd like to date and be my boyfriend- an offer I declined. When I was about to leave, we heard someone walking to their apartment across the hall and talking on the phone. He BEGGED me to wait until they got inside. That was the last time we saw each other or have spoken.

 

I wish he felt good enough to come out. It's sad to me that he thinks he has to do things so that his family doesn't look down upon him.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I had a client who only hired me twice. We first connected because of music; me being a pianist and him being a singer. He was very reluctant to give details about his life that aren't even intimate! For example- before he said he was a singer, he showed me a video of him singing at a coffeeshop and tried to tell me that the video was his brother singing. Maybe I should have left it alone, but I immediately said "that's obviously you!" I'm not too sure why he wanted to hide that. Then he asked if he could take me to dinner sometime which I agreed to, but we didn't end up going. He also asked numerous questions about being gay. The questions he asked were questions that would come up on a list of "most ridiculous questions to ask a gay man." Just to give context; he asked if your butt gets bigger from being penetrated. He also assumed I was sexually abused and had no father growing up-both are untrue.

 

The second time he hired me, he was saying how he does like men, but he knows he'll end up marrying a woman and having children. He's from Haiti and told me how his family would never approve. I tried to make him feel better by saying that my family is the same way and that I'm not living to please them. I also said if he marries a woman, that doesn't change that he's interested in men. Then he said how he'd like to date and be my boyfriend- an offer I declined. When I was about to leave, we heard someone walking to their apartment across the hall and talking on the phone. He BEGGED me to wait until they got inside. That was the last time we saw each other or have spoken.

 

I wish he felt good enough to come out. It's sad to me that he thinks he has to do things so that his family doesn't look down upon him.

 

I like you a little bit more with each of your posts, Christian.

[big-n-tall]

I like you a little bit more with each of your posts, Christian.

 

You're just trying to get in his pants. Lol!

[+ José Soplanucas]

You're just trying to get in his pants. Lol!

 

Hey! WTF are we here for?

I am, because I like him. I am not BSing.

 

http://68.media.tumblr.com/7717b6a8bc61c32094f884a6bead4d66/tumblr_opy66p22Kq1r2pp2to1_400.gif

[+ José Soplanucas]

And, he shows as RM escort of the day. It is like signals are leading me towards him.

[Yeison]

Been there done that, sometimes clients can't help it creating some kind of affection for an escort, I used to have a lovely, great and amazing person as my regular when I used to live in DC, we got some conexión as soon as the first moment we met, he used to see me once a week for 5 month, I was always happy to see him and spend time with him but I think he was confusing everything to the point of getting jealous everytime he used to see a pic of me and anther guy on social media, getting disappointed everytime he used to invite me to dinner and I couldn't because I had an appointment with someone else and the got to the point of telling me everything and walked away because he was feeling too bad and in a bad position.

 

i miss him so much but I don't want to hurt his feeings either so I think taking distance was the best idea and hope one day not too far we can be back in contact again.

[FootWhisperer]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question. And, there in lies the problem. Kind of like playing the lottery, along with the same odds. Depends on how much of your heart and money you want to wage.

 

[Not an innocent commentator]

[Jay DC]

This is an area where I have been struggling a bit recently. I have been hiring for the past 15-20 years. I love my time with the gentlemen and have almost never really had a bad experience, some better than others, but very few I wouldn't repeat. In all of these years, I have never had any sort of relationship outside of the paid time until this last year when I become friends with one of my regulars. In fact, asking about being friends with an escort was my first post after I joined. Being friends is a new path for me to navigate and it has been a little bumpy. We do seem to genuinely enjoy each each other's company and have even been a good influence on each other. It took a lot of communication to make sure our individual boundaries are well understood. We've traveled well together and everything seemed to be going smoothly. It was nice to have a new friend, not always the easiest to cultivate at 51 y/o.

 

On a recent trip, we had a communication challenge deeply exacerbated by some genuine technical issues with my phone that appeared to be sending/receiving texts, but actually wasn't at all. We both ended up feeling ignored, taking advantage of and stood up since we didn't have the paid time we had scheduled. For me it was doubly upsetting because I felt that both a friend and a regular hire had let me down. Even when we figured out there was a technical reason for the miscommunication, it still is hard to get past the recriminations and hurt. I felt like an old man making a fool of himself chasing after a rentboy ten years his junior pretending to be a friend to ensure the cash keeps flowing for the paid time. While I don't think this is the actual case, it is the friend status that opened the door for me to feel this way.

 

It seems like an escort's first responsibility is to make a living, and that can occasionally override his friendship obligations. For his friends who are not also clients, they get the nuances and have made peace with the ground rules. For me, trying to balance both a friend and client is new to me. I understand it is mostly my issue to work out--either I can live with the ground rules or I can't. Our friendship will be with the understanding that his effort to make a living will trump our friendship at times. Not ever having a relationship outside of the paid time has made this a steep learning curve for me. The paid component is different also, not because of the payment per se, but because of the intimacy involved the transaction. I can be friends with my dentist, whom I also pay, but he doesn't know how to make me cum extra hard and that intimacy seems to add another dimension to the relationship.

 

This is a messy post, and I'm not even sure what my point is, but there are accommodations to be made for friends -- all friends. But in this type of case, it takes even more communication than the traditional friend model to succeed. I don't regret getting closer to my escort, but going forward I'll be a little more clear eyed about it.

[gallahadesquire]

This is an area where I have been struggling a bit recently. I have been hiring for the past 15-20 years. I love my time with the gentlemen and have almost never really had a bad experience, some better than others, but very few I wouldn't repeat. In all of these years, I have never had any sort of relationship outside of the paid time until this last year when I become friends with one of my regulars. In fact, asking about being friends with an escort was my first post after I joined. Being friends is a new path for me to navigate and it has been a little bumpy. We do seem to genuinely enjoy each each other's company and have even been a good influence on each other. It took a lot of communication to make sure our individual boundaries are well understood. We've traveled well together and everything seemed to be going smoothly. It was nice to have a new friend, not always the easiest to cultivate at 51 y/o.

 

On a recent trip, we had a communication challenge deeply exacerbated by some genuine technical issues with my phone that appeared to be sending/receiving texts, but actually wasn't at all. We both ended up feeling ignored, taking advantage of and stood up since we didn't have the paid time we had scheduled. For me it was doubly upsetting because I felt that both a friend and a regular hire had let me down. Even when we figured out there was a technical reason for the miscommunication, it still is hard to get past the recriminations and hurt. I felt like an old man making a fool of himself chasing after a rentboy ten years his junior pretending to be a friend to ensure the cash keeps flowing for the paid time. While I don't think this is the actual case, it is the friend status that opened the door for me to feel this way.

 

It seems like an escort's first responsibility is to make a living, and that can occasionally override his friendship obligations. For his friends who are not also clients, they get the nuances and have made peace with the ground rules. For me, trying to balance both a friend and client is new to me. I understand it is mostly my issue to work out--either I can live with the ground rules or I can't. Our friendship will be with the understanding that his effort to make a living will trump our friendship at times. Not ever having a relationship outside of the paid time has made this a steep learning curve for me. The paid component is different also, not because of the payment per se, but because of the intimacy involved the transaction. I can be friends with my dentist, whom I also pay, but he doesn't know how to make me cum extra hard and that intimacy seems to add another dimension to the relationship.

 

This is a messy post, and I'm not even sure what my point is, but there are accommodations to be made for friends -- all friends. But in this type of case, it takes even more communication than the traditional friend model to succeed. I don't regret getting closer to my escort, but going forward I'll be a little more clear eyed about it.

 

@JayDc, you might feel you're struggling, but your post is very well thought out and your thinking is in the right direction.

I think you've got the right handle on it.

[+ Eric Hassan]

A friend of mine used to tell me that people often feel more free, less inhibited, sexier, more creative, etc. when they take drugs. He would tell me that the lesson to learn from the experience of taking drugs was that those qualities and experiences were NOT the drugs but rather things inside of us that we were able to access with drugs. If there's something we can feel or experience with a drug, it's something we can have access to without the drug.

 

This isn't a nice and tight answer to everything in this thread, but I think it's worth noting that if we can feel love and peace, and be motivated to take care of our bodies and minds because of a connection with a hire, it's not the guy - it's YOU. Yes, maybe something that guy did or said influenced you, pointed you in the "right" direction, but you wouldn't be doing things to make yourself more healthy and you wouldn't acknowledge love if it were not already inside you. It's important to be grateful to the people who stand with us in our lives, but it's misguided to think that someone else made you do anything. It's like the drug analogy above.

 

I also think it's high time that we all stop being afraid of feeling and expressing love. Loving someone doesn't have to mean that you can't be away from them, or that you need them for your survival or happiness, or that you own them, or that you want to marry them simply because you love them. I think if we all were more open in our expression of love and more aware of the experience of love that we receive from the people around us, we would take some of the "seriousness" out of it and learn to enjoy the feeling without needing it to have any specific outcome.

[LADoug1]

Outside of role play requests, nothing that I share during a session is a performance or act. I'm sorry that's been your experience, but if you talk to the guys that I've shared time with, I feel confident they will tell you that's not the case with me. On the other hand, I can only connect with someone as deeply as they are willing to allow me.

You must have a lot of clients fall in love with you Lance. What do you do about that?

[+ Lance_Navarro]

You must have a lot of clients fall in love with you Lance. What do you do about that?

 

As long as that love isn't about control, jealousy or ownership, than it doesn't worry me in the least. In fact it makes me incredibly joyous. I love the term "falling in love", the idea that we must first "fall" before we can move to a higher and greater place. We learn to ride a bike by falling down, and those who haven't fallen (or struggled) are imbalanced in life.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

A friend of mine used to tell me that people often feel more free, less inhibited, sexier, more creative, etc. when they take drugs. He would tell me that the lesson to learn from the experience of taking drugs was that those qualities and experiences were NOT the drugs but rather things inside of us that we were able to access with drugs. If there's something we can feel or experience with a drug, it's something we can have access to without the drug.

 

This isn't a nice and tight answer to everything in this thread, but I think it's worth noting that if we can feel love and peace, and be motivated to take care of our bodies and minds because of a connection with a hire, it's not the guy - it's YOU. Yes, maybe something that guy did or said influenced you, pointed you in the "right" direction, but you wouldn't be doing things to make yourself more healthy and you wouldn't acknowledge love if it were not already inside you. It's important to be grateful to the people who stand with us in our lives, but it's misguided to think that someone else made you do anything. It's like the drug analogy above.

 

I also think it's high time that we all stop being afraid of feeling and expressing love. Loving someone doesn't have to mean that you can't be away from them, or that you need them for your survival or happiness, or that you own them, or that you want to marry them simply because you love them. I think if we all were more open in our expression of love and more aware of the experience of love that we receive from the people around us, we would take some of the "seriousness" out of it and learn to enjoy the feeling without needing it to have any specific outcome.

 

And that is why I LOVE you mister!

[mike carey]

And that is why I LOVE you mister!

And why I love you both!

[john1973]

A friend of mine used to tell me that people often feel more free, less inhibited, sexier, more creative, etc. when they take drugs. He would tell me that the lesson to learn from the experience of taking drugs was that those qualities and experiences were NOT the drugs but rather things inside of us that we were able to access with drugs. If there's something we can feel or experience with a drug, it's something we can have access to without the drug.

 

This isn't a nice and tight answer to everything in this thread, but I think it's worth noting that if we can feel love and peace, and be motivated to take care of our bodies and minds because of a connection with a hire, it's not the guy - it's YOU. Yes, maybe something that guy did or said influenced you, pointed you in the "right" direction, but you wouldn't be doing things to make yourself more healthy and you wouldn't acknowledge love if it were not already inside you. It's important to be grateful to the people who stand with us in our lives, but it's misguided to think that someone else made you do anything. It's like the drug analogy above.

 

I also think it's high time that we all stop being afraid of feeling and expressing love. Loving someone doesn't have to mean that you can't be away from them, or that you need them for your survival or happiness, or that you own them, or that you want to marry them simply because you love them. I think if we all were more open in our expression of love and more aware of the experience of love that we receive from the people around us, we would take some of the "seriousness" out of it and learn to enjoy the feeling without needing it to have any specific outcome.

 

Such a thoughtful and eloquent guy, this Eric Hassan.

[LADoug1]

As long as that love isn't about control, jealousy or ownership, than it doesn't worry me in the least. In fact it makes me incredibly joyous. I love the term "falling in love", the idea that we must first "fall" before we can move to a higher and greater place. We learn to ride a bike by falling down, and those who haven't fallen (or struggled) are imbalanced in life.

But how do you handle guys who are in love with you and are intent on making you their boyfriend?

[+ Lance_Navarro]

But how do you handle guys who are in love with you and are intent on making you their boyfriend?

 

I haven't had that experience. My clients all know that I already have a wonderful partner with whom I'm very happy.

[AquaNYC]

A friend of mine used to tell me that people often feel more free, less inhibited, sexier, more creative, etc. when they take drugs. He would tell me that the lesson to learn from the experience of taking drugs was that those qualities and experiences were NOT the drugs but rather things inside of us that we were able to access with drugs. If there's something we can feel or experience with a drug, it's something we can have access to without the drug.

 

This isn't a nice and tight answer to everything in this thread, but I think it's worth noting that if we can feel love and peace, and be motivated to take care of our bodies and minds because of a connection with a hire, it's not the guy - it's YOU. Yes, maybe something that guy did or said influenced you, pointed you in the "right" direction, but you wouldn't be doing things to make yourself more healthy and you wouldn't acknowledge love if it were not already inside you. It's important to be grateful to the people who stand with us in our lives, but it's misguided to think that someone else made you do anything. It's like the drug analogy above.

 

I also think it's high time that we all stop being afraid of feeling and expressing love. Loving someone doesn't have to mean that you can't be away from them, or that you need them for your survival or happiness, or that you own them, or that you want to marry them simply because you love them. I think if we all were more open in our expression of love and more aware of the experience of love that we receive from the people around us, we would take some of the "seriousness" out of it and learn to enjoy the feeling without needing it to have any specific outcome.

Beautiful expression, Eric. Reminds me of a book that really changed my outlook on connecting and living in the present -"Waking Up" - Sam Harris. In first chapter, he references an experience he had on drugs with his best friend and during the experience he was able to feel clearly and gain an awareness of his love of and interconnectedness with his friend (platonic love).

[Maximus69]

Ive faced both extremes, I became friends with an client in which we would do stuff off the clock like go to the beach and shop but then overtime we would argue about stupid little stuff, our business relationship kind of soured as he wanted to spend a lot of time when we were strictly supposed to have an hour meet up. I would always stay for over that time always bc we were friends but he wanted to spend hours when he could only afford 1 hour meetings.

 

On the other side, I have seen another client on a regular basis for almost 2 years now, and we haven't hanged out outside of the bedroom. We only communicate when he wants to set up a meeting, we've never argued and for some people it may work out that way, as we both know what were both looking out out this. Sometimes mixing and blurring business with friendship can end up with a bad ending.