What is really going on with people?

[Mocha]

.

[kewtex]

[Mocha]

Oh you want old school, now you're talking:

 

[Mocha]

Let me just say something...before anyone comes in here starting sh*t, if you can't handle discussing real life stuff in a non confrontational manner, please excuse yourself to the boy's room. I'm not trying to get anyone's jockstraps on backwards.

 

Also, pertaining to the last sentence where I might get accused of throwing in the "race card", let me mention this is not a White shaming thread either. Though I do believe some still harbor a subconscious preadamite view towards us, I've been demonized by my own race too. Part of the reason I've decided to leave Tennessee has to do with how evil I've realized black people can be towards each other. In all my experience of traveling since 2006, usually I try to avoid living or visiting most cities with more than 25% Black population (city-data.com) for that very reason (Washington D.C. and Milwaukee is the only exception, but even those can be a bit irritating). Nashville barely exceeds that number but it had proven to be a reemerging issue while I was living there.

 

That said, it should be noted that most of my clients are White or Latino. Last night, I went to a gay bar and most all the few Black guys were with White guys. But most all the White guys were with White guys. What does that tell you? And would one think that would have no ripple effect or that those gale force winds won't rip into other areas of a gay man's level of access in other areas? Let's be real here.

[nycguy]

I always regret having to be dependent or even be mildly needy around gay men because they are so selfish and caught up in their own agenda all the time.

 

...but sometimes I just don't like dealing with these demons in the gay community. Some of them are our clients unfortunently. A number of gay men are daily drug users

 

But half of these guys won't even spend a dime on a (Black) guy, or will do some real cheapskate stuff ...yet will do all this extravagent stuff for themselves

 

You might have much better experiences if you actually liked gay men in general as well as the clients who you want to pay you just because you exist. Your post sounds like you are describing yourself.

[BallerBoy]

This is very interesting. I would love to hear more about your experience as an escort. Particularly being a Black Escort and the micro-aggressions you face within the gay community.

[Mocha]

By the way...i will clarify when i say demons of the gay community, and included clients. I didn't mean the stereotypical view that gays are possessed and need exorcisms or shock therapy. I also didn't mean to refer to my clients as such either. I was referring to some of the larger issues that divide us , and I referred to those as demons. There's actually another article that explains the context that I was using it in:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/20/gay-men-hiv-homophobia-lgbt-drink-drugs

[Mocha]

It's late at night, so I'm tired but trying to figure out the who's with who at the gay bar rant. It looked to me that the white guys were with both, and I deduct if gay black guys want to hook up with each other, they don't need to go to a bar with white people at it?

 

City-data is based on PROVIDED (census?) information, so the accuracy you're using to guide where you go may prove gravely false.

 

It was a general observation. But it's was observative enough to show that in that particular situation (or area of town for that matter), on the surface it appears that not only are the single Black guys being singled out by White guys, but also being singled out by other Black guys. You have to be very persistent (or loosely inhibited) to feel confident and have success in an environment where you could face ostracization by the other team and your own team.

 

As for city-data, it's definitely a fairly accurate chart to go by. The numbers may not be exact but it's definitely not grossly false. Also taking into consideration of how city limits can greatly increase or decrease the numbers. But cities like:

 

Indianapolis

St. Louis

Atlanta

Baltimore

Houston

All the Ohio cities

 

I think those percentages are all fairly accurate as all of those have Black populations over 25%. And all of them I'd be loathe to move to. I tried it in Nashville, and ended up with a Black stalker the entire time, a Black guy who turned all his friends against me and Outed me to an entire Cabin of people, threatened me repeatedly, and a whole lot of White people who are either dismissive of or distrustful and divide themselves from the overall gay Black community.

 

That's exactly why the 25% rule is a real thing to me. Though now I'm considering dropping it 20%. The Black folks who grew up in these areas are generally acclimatized to such places and usually get by just fine because they don't know anything better. People like me who have traveled extensively, know there's places where sterotypes and Black indifference aren't so common.

[Larstrup]

Let me just say something...before anyone comes in here starting sh*t, if you can't handle discussing real life stuff in a non confrontational manner, please excuse yourself to the boy's room.

 

That's actually quite rich of you Mocha. If you removed the confrontational value and aspects toward society from all of your posts here, you'd have absolutely nothing to post about. Your own personal anger toward the world and the gay community in general is consuming you, in everything you do, and seemingly with everyone you encounter.

 

It doesn't have to be like this for you.

[Deadlift1]

Moving is very stressful. Who are u angry with? White gay men? Or black gay men? Or potheads?

[kewtex]

And all of them I'd be loathe to move to.

 

In case you get bored today: https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/loath-loathe/

[LivingnLA]

I have no idea what your life has been like, @Mocha, but I get the sense things are rough right now. I am unable to fully comprehend where you're coming from because I am not black nor have I lived your life. As a non-white American with fairly lite-colored skin from a relatively middle class background who has been fairly lucky in life, I can only say the following:

 

America feels like a rapidly fragmenting nation. Wealth and opportunity are concentrating in the top 10% and the vast majority of those citizens live in the top 10 - 20 metropolitan areas. Outside of those places, the reduced opportunity and wealth mean the bottom 90% have less to spend in their lives.

 

Add this economic reality to the sense of cultural siege many American experience and the result is a growing number of people who feel attacked, persecuted, or worse. When people begin to believe the system is rigged and that life isn't even close to fair or equitable, then they stop caring about civility or society and instead focus on "getting theirs." This leads to a breakdown of the basic niceties. When you add in the last Presidential election and how elitists continue to blatantly flout the law, ethics, and morals that made our nation so successful this past century, is it any surprise that more and more people are in it for themselves?

[Mocha]

Moving is very stressful. Who are u angry with? White gay men? Or black gay men? Or potheads?

 

Non of the above. Anger is a bit dramatic. I'm not angry. I'm just discussing the situation as it is. I can discuss a situation without it being construed as angry?

 

By the way, I also should suggest that I'm not saying anyone who smokes pot is automatically the way I described. But I do say it because the ones who do it daily don't seem to realize how oppressive and unpredictable their personalities are, and that's what I have an issue with. Maybe they are that way irregardless, but it seems too convenient to make the comparison.

[Mocha]

That's actually quite rich of you Mocha. If you removed the confrontational value and aspects toward society from all of your posts here, you'd have absolutely nothing to post about. Your own personal anger toward the world and the gay community in general is consuming you, in everything you do, and seemingly with everyone you encounter.

 

It doesn't have to be like this for you.

 

Your own personal anger towards me in general is consuming you. If you actually took the time to read and understand what I'm saying, you'd see it differently. But you can't because you're offended...why, I don't know. I don't know why you...an anonymous non MF factor, would be offended by me discussing things that I've witnessed.

 

You want it to consume me because you speak of it as if. You say these things to try and persecute me and curse me. Both you and @Bearofdistinction and @YoungAD. All 3 of you are taking on the duties of demons, working through you and typing crap on the computer to shame, chastise and disparage somebody. You aren't really trying to help, you just want to put someone down. But I won't let the accusations from any of you to have any effect on me. I rebuke you foul demons and all that foul nonsense talk. Especially @Bearofdistinction to say, "I'm the most unhappiest escort in the world" is straight talk from a demon, and he doesn't even realize how evil of a man he is and how he's practicing bad juju just by saying that, and eventually allowing evil to find a way into his life later. I don't find that at all cute or funny considering how many adult entertainers have taken their life or living with hard drug addictions. Yet I'm living each day healthy, waking up without even needing caffeine to get me going.

 

Now if more people can post relevant stuff like @LivingnLA has done, I'm interested to hear as he seems to definitely have an understanding of the thesis posed.

[Mocha]

This is very interesting. I would love to hear more about your experience as an escort. Particularly being a Black Escort and the micro-aggressions you face within the gay community.

 

I would refer you and anyone else who doesn't quite get what it's like, to also to read this great blog post from someone who I can quite relate to what he's saying:

https://us.ditchthelabel.org/experience-gay-black-man/

[Nvr2Thick]

For example, I stayed at an acquientence's home for 2 days earlier this week. I was moving and it wasn't doable to stay where I was. I hadn't had any calls from clients and money was thin as I had to wait 2 days before a non-escorting check cleared on my account. He kept suggesting I just sleep at his place. Come on over. No air bnb guests this week. Sure, just come on over. A little cuddling each night, but nothin too intense.

 

Barely 2 days into it, he started bitching about wanting his house back. Making it seem like I was crowding his space and trying to take his place from him. This guy has a whole 3 bedroom house with an extra room, and I was usually away most of the day and kept most items in my vehicle.

 

...

 

One thing I like about escorting is I don't have to deal with all that. This is not to say a guy who doesn't pay escorts is stingy. But half of these guys won't even spend a dime on a (Black) guy, or will do some real cheapskate stuff ...yet will do all this extravagent stuff for themselves (or a non-black guy). The ones I mentioned above are not clients, and being an escort seems to be a good defense to repelling some of the stingy, selfish gays while being available to the more respectable, philanthropic ones.

 

I've got a good friend of twelve years -- a black gay man a few years younger than me. Like many gay friendships ours started as a series of hookups. He's funny, friendly, and attractive to me, and the sex was always fun. We were smart enough to back off and just be friends when I wanted to pursue something exclusive and he wanted to play the field. Also I'm a total bottom, but he's very versatile. He doesn't seem to ever want a boyfriend, but he sometimes has one or two (or zero) close fuckbuddies. Our friendship often revolves around helping each other with chores. I hate yard work, and he always bullies me into keeping my yard in shape by coming by to help. He can't stand heights, so I always end up cleaning his gutters or doing anything that involves a roof or a ladder. We talk and joke a lot when we're working together, but over time I found that we never really hung out just to hang out. These days he's dealing with some anxiety issues that are affecting his job, and that could be either mid-life crisis or hereditary mental health problems. He's worried that counseling and meds aren't helping. I'm hoping that it's just going to take some time for treatment to become effective. One of the things that is paradoxically heightening his anxiety is the sexual side effects from his new meds.

 

I used to spend time with him once every week or so, but I've become concerned about how he feels. Now I drop by his house whenever I have time. We talk or we don't talk. Usually we end up on his couch watching TV. We haven't been intimate in years, but now we sit close and I throw an arm over his shoulder. I hold him close if he seems to want it. He works the night shift and takes a nap in the mid afternoon. If I have time I either take a nap with him, or I sit next to him in bed and read. He's often most bothered when he gets off work, pretty early in the morning. I've given him a key to my house and told him to drop by after work if he's troubled. Randomly over the past few weeks he's come by straight from work, showered, and climbed into my bed. Sometimes we'll talk, and sometimes he'll just sleep. Sometimes he'll roll in close and let me hold him, and sometimes it's neutral corners. I've had to leave him sleeping some mornings, but he says that he likes waking up to the cat on top of him. My friend is still very independent, and still keeps busy with family and friends. I just wanted to make sure that he had someone actively reaching out to him for some conversation and closeness. His treatment and meds may be settling in, but I think it helps that he doesn't spend so much time alone with his doubts and anxiety.

 

I've replied with this story for two reasons. The first is to show you that white men have giving friendships with black men that are not exploitative. The second is to recommend that you do an assessment of your acquaintances and friends. The anecdote you've provided is not the first we've heard where you've relied on someone who was not all that committed to your well-being. You're disappointed by things that people have not done for you, but the things you're looking for come from true friends. I'd advise that you not have such high expectations of acquaintances. While they may have the means to help you, they don't have the type of relationship with you where the expectations are realistic.

 

It's possibly worthy of a longer discussion, but I'd also consider whether your "One thing I like about escorting is I don't have to deal with all that" position doesn't set you up to develop good friendships.

[Bearofdistinction]

Your own personal anger towards me in general is consuming you. If you actually took the time to read and understand what I'm saying, you'd see it differently. But you can't because you're offended...why, I don't know. I don't know why you...an anonymous non MF factor, would be offended by me discussing things that I've witnessed.

 

You want it to consume me because you speak of it as if. You say these things to try and persecute me and curse me. Both you and @Bearofdistinction and @YoungAD. All 3 of you are taking on the duties of demons, working through you and typing crap on the computer to shame, chastise and disparage somebody. You aren't really trying to help, you just want to put someone down. But I won't let the accusations from any of you to have any effect on me. I rebuke you foul demons and all that foul nonsense talk. Especially @Bearofdistinction t.

Now if more people can post relevant stuff like @LivingnLA has done, I'm interested to hear as he seems to definitely have an understanding of the thesis posed.

 

I got to the part about DEMONs --- And I thought -- "Well Isn't that Special!"

 

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/church-chat/n9565?snl=1

 

Demonic Raisans I REBUKE YOU!

[+ BigRic]

I've got a good friend of twelve years -- a black gay man a few years younger than me. Like many gay friendships ours started as a series of hookups. He's funny, friendly, and attractive to me, and the sex was always fun. We were smart enough to back off and just be friends when I wanted to pursue something exclusive and he wanted to play the field. Also I'm a total bottom, but he's very versatile. He doesn't seem to ever want a boyfriend, but he sometimes has one or two (or zero) close fuckbuddies. Our friendship often revolves around helping each other with chores. I hate yard work, and he always bullies me into keeping my yard in shape by coming by to help. He can't stand heights, so I always end up cleaning his gutters or doing anything that involves a roof or a ladder. We talk and joke a lot when we're working together, but over time I found that we never really hung out just to hang out. These days he's dealing with some anxiety issues that are affecting his job, and that could be either mid-life crisis or hereditary mental health problems. He's worried that counseling and meds aren't helping. I'm hoping that it's just going to take some time for treatment to become effective. One of the things that is paradoxically heightening his anxiety is the sexual side effects from his new meds.

 

I used to spend time with him once every week or so, but I've become concerned about how he feels. Now I drop by his house whenever I have time. We talk or we don't talk. Usually we end up on his couch watching TV. We haven't been intimate in years, but now we sit close and I throw an arm over his shoulder. I hold him close if he seems to want it. He works the night shift and takes a nap in the mid afternoon. If I have time I either take a nap with him, or I sit next to him in bed and read. He's often most bothered when he gets off work, pretty early in the morning. I've given him a key to my house and told him to drop by after work if he's troubled. Randomly over the past few weeks he's come by straight from work, showered, and climbed into my bed. Sometimes we'll talk, and sometimes he'll just sleep. Sometimes he'll roll in close and let me hold him, and sometimes it's neutral corners. I've had to leave him sleeping some mornings, but he says that he likes waking up to the cat on top of him. My friend is still very independent, and still keeps busy with family and friends. I just wanted to make sure that he had someone actively reaching out to him for some conversation and closeness. His treatment and meds may be settling in, but I think it helps that he doesn't spend so much time alone with his doubts and anxiety.

 

I've replied with this story for two reasons. The first is to show you that white men have giving friendships with black men that are not exploitative. The second is to recommend that you do an assessment of your acquaintances and friends. The anecdote you've provided is not the first we've heard where you've relied on someone who was not all that committed to your well-being. You're disappointed by things that people have not done for you, but the things you're looking for come from true friends. I'd advise that you not have such high expectations of acquaintances. While they may have the means to help you, they don't have the type of relationship with you where the expectations are realistic.

 

It's possibly worthy of a longer discussion, but I'd also consider whether your "One thing I like about escorting is I don't have to deal with all that" position doesn't set you up to develop good friendships.

 

Holy moly, thank you @Nvr2Thick.

 

This post, especially its second paragraph, kinda broke and simultaneously warmed my heart. I don't mean to be melodramatic but we never know if someone in your friend's situation might have taken his own life if it weren't for the presence of a friend such as yourself (and that was before the nasty reality of Jeff Sessions becoming the AG). A beautiful, constructive, positive post. Thank you. Just followed you. (And how ironic that, according to your profile, you're located in Tennessee.)

[bigvalboy]

I've got a good friend of twelve years -- a black gay man a few years younger than me. Like many gay friendships ours started as a series of hookups. He's funny, friendly, and attractive to me, and the sex was always fun. We were smart enough to back off and just be friends when I wanted to pursue something exclusive and he wanted to play the field. Also I'm a total bottom, but he's very versatile. He doesn't seem to ever want a boyfriend, but he sometimes has one or two (or zero) close fuckbuddies. Our friendship often revolves around helping each other with chores. I hate yard work, and he always bullies me into keeping my yard in shape by coming by to help. He can't stand heights, so I always end up cleaning his gutters or doing anything that involves a roof or a ladder. We talk and joke a lot when we're working together, but over time I found that we never really hung out just to hang out. These days he's dealing with some anxiety issues that are affecting his job, and that could be either mid-life crisis or hereditary mental health problems. He's worried that counseling and meds aren't helping. I'm hoping that it's just going to take some time for treatment to become effective. One of the things that is paradoxically heightening his anxiety is the sexual side effects from his new meds.

 

I used to spend time with him once every week or so, but I've become concerned about how he feels. Now I drop by his house whenever I have time. We talk or we don't talk. Usually we end up on his couch watching TV. We haven't been intimate in years, but now we sit close and I throw an arm over his shoulder. I hold him close if he seems to want it. He works the night shift and takes a nap in the mid afternoon. If I have time I either take a nap with him, or I sit next to him in bed and read. He's often most bothered when he gets off work, pretty early in the morning. I've given him a key to my house and told him to drop by after work if he's troubled. Randomly over the past few weeks he's come by straight from work, showered, and climbed into my bed. Sometimes we'll talk, and sometimes he'll just sleep. Sometimes he'll roll in close and let me hold him, and sometimes it's neutral corners. I've had to leave him sleeping some mornings, but he says that he likes waking up to the cat on top of him. My friend is still very independent, and still keeps busy with family and friends. I just wanted to make sure that he had someone actively reaching out to him for some conversation and closeness. His treatment and meds may be settling in, but I think it helps that he doesn't spend so much time alone with his doubts and anxiety.

 

I've replied with this story for two reasons. The first is to show you that white men have giving friendships with black men that are not exploitative. The second is to recommend that you do an assessment of your acquaintances and friends. The anecdote you've provided is not the first we've heard where you've relied on someone who was not all that committed to your well-being. You're disappointed by things that people have not done for you, but the things you're looking for come from true friends. I'd advise that you not have such high expectations of acquaintances. While they may have the means to help you, they don't have the type of relationship with you where the expectations are realistic.

 

It's possibly worthy of a longer discussion, but I'd also consider whether your "One thing I like about escorting is I don't have to deal with all that" position doesn't set you up to develop good friendships.

 

Brilliant post....Two thumbs up to you.

[marylander1940]

 

I can't complain in general about this year and for the most part things have been pretty well. And it's been holding up well up until since about end of April. Then things just went radio silent out of nowhere and it's been harrowing ever since. Mostly happening while in the process of moving up and out of the bottomless pit of Tennessee.

 

 

.

 

I got similar feedback from a few escorts I know, May has been a bad month so far.

[kewtex]

Holy moly, thank you @Nvr2Thick.

 

This post, especially its second paragraph, kinda broke and simultaneously warmed my heart. I don't mean to be melodramatic but we never know if someone in your friend's situation might have taken his own life if it weren't for the presence of a friend such as yourself (and that was before the nasty reality of Jeff Sessions becoming the AG). A beautiful, constructive, positive post. Thank you. Just followed you. (And how ironic that, according to your profile, you're located in Tennessee.)

 

I've read the second paragraph of Nvr2Thick's post several times, and, for the life of me, cannot figure out what it has to do with Jeff Sessions becoming AG. Would you be so kind as to explain?

[Mocha]

I've got a good friend of twelve years -- a black gay man a few years younger than me. Like many gay friendships ours started as a series of hookups.

 

I've replied with this story for two reasons. The first is to show you that white men have giving friendships with black men that are not exploitative. You're disappointed by things that people have not done for you, but the things you're looking for come from true friends. I'd advise that you not have such high expectations of acquaintances. While they may have the means to help you, they don't have the type of relationship with you where the expectations are realistic.

 

Bravo, bravo...ill give it up to you, that was a well written post and Thankyou for taking the time to respond with that.

 

However, I will clarify that yes I understand gay White and Black men have relationships where one exploits the other. I do in fact have/had a couple good ones I would/did consider real friends...to an extent. However, it takes awhile for that to happen, as you suggested in your friendship. One thing I find, it's harder to find White Guys who want to talk on the phone much these days. They just text. Mainly referring to in dating. Which ALWAYS seems to equate to being just a hookup.

 

Also, I'm not so much as disappointed of what someone didn't do for me. Especially not the guy mentioned in the temporary stay situation. It's more of what they say they can do FOR ME, but they can't actually maintain it. I rather someone show how much an asshole they are from the get go, not surprise me with it when I go through a rough patch.

 

It's like many "preppy" guys will try and try to get it, then once they get it they'll discard or trade it out. I think that goes back to when they were kids, their parents would get them the perfect toy(s), but when a new product comes out on the market, they'd get it in due time. Us non-preppy children didn't have such luxuries, so we learned to just stick with and hold on to what we have.

 

And as those "preppy" spoiled kids grew up, they started treating men like toys and Grindr and company like a video game. So it all makes sense. But people can change and realize they don't have to be that way. Though that oft comes hard.

[Mocha]

I've read the second paragraph of Nvr2Thick's post several times, and, for the life of me, cannot figure out what it has to do with Jeff Sessions becoming AG. Would you be so kind as to explain?

 

C'mon now, I finally get @BigRic to join in on the discussion, and you're making him explain himself. Maybe reading this will clear it up: http://www.alternet.org/right-wing/12-reasons-jeff-sessions-should-never-be-attorney-general

 

And after that, (though the stereotypical urban depictions and difficult to decipher elements of a guy in Miami being totally gun shy gay were kinda overplayed here) I'd watch "Moonlight" if you want extra understanding:

[Deadlift1]

Kind of with you on Beardsofdistinction.

[Deadlift1]

Ever been to Cypheravenue.Com ? I have found similar topics about the gay black male experience a good read.