The organ

[AdamSmith]

I think this comment was a bit unfair. Being 1977, it was not exactly early in Sill's carreer.

 

 

And please be kind to the trumpeter, Doc Severinsen, who was primarily a leader of jazz bands. My guess was this was recorded during an instance of the tonight show.

 

Severinsen used to tour the country leading workshop for high school big-bands. He came to my high school in Albuquerque, in 1967, and was really kind, supportive and encouraging to the kids there (and not-at-all full of himself).

 

Ironically, after that clipped finished, next one up was Kathleen Battle and Winton Marsalis (who had a bit more of a rep as a classical player, although he, too, is noted for his Jazz work):

 

I have nothing but respect for Doc Severinsen.

 

If I wanted to be catty, I would end my comment there.

 

But to your point that the clip came from fairly well along in Sills's career:

 

As @whipped guy notes, the great tend only to get greater as they go along. Compensating for gradual lessening of bodily physical capabilities with ever-growing strengthening in dramatic interpretation and similar aesthetic aspects that depend on artistic insight and wisdom more than physical technical capability.

[AdamSmith]

and on watching Sills again just now, I see I was completely stupid.

 

She and Doc bring highest art to the masses, without dumbing it down at all.

 

Sorry for my snobby incomprehension before. That was a genius achievement by them!

[whipped guy]

As @whipped guy notes, the great tend only to get greater as they go along. Compensating for gradual lessening of bodily physical capabilities with ever-growing strengthening in dramatic interpretation and similar aesthetic aspects that depend on artistic insight and wisdom more than physical technical capability.

My grandfather always said to me, "Don't get old!" Of course he neglected to impart any wisdom regarding how to beat the rap. Therefore artists... and especially singers who can't run out and by a Strad violin or a Bösendorfer Model 290 to assist them when their vocal chords give out... need to somehow compensate for their diminished ability. That's why many a singer has often stealthy transposed much of their repertory into more comfortable keys. Another option would be singing roles that are associated with other voice categories. Of course the current prominent example of the latter is the emergence of baritone Placido Domingo.

 

However, the greatest artists have been able to turn their waning powers into assets. Such was the case with Maira Callas about whom I have written what might be considered the basis for a thesis in this Forum. If ever there were an artist who could turn liabilities into assets it was she! That she was "cursed" with a voice that was not beautiful in the classic sense certainly forced her to concentrate on the more dramatic aspects of singing. As her vocal powers slowing slipped away she not only refined her dramatic interpretations, but in the process tailored her vocal interpretations to more accurately serve the drama as well. At times she would caress a note in the most tender manner imaginable... and simply because to sing the note in full voice would elicit an unpleasant sound where it would not be appropriate. In fact at times one wondered if she deliberately made her voice sound ugly, unpleasant, or debilitated for dramatic effect when she knew that she would not be able to control the note. My favorite example of this would be the way her voice usually cracked on the final note of the aria "Addio del passato" in the final Act of La Traviata that really underscores the weakness and infirmity that would cause the title character to die at the end in the act.

 

Only a Callas would be able to set down for posterity two of her most successful recordings when she was in "bad" voice. These wold be her second recording of Bellini's Norma and Bizet's Carmen. In both she literally transformed herself into the title characters of both pieces. In fact contemporary hype for the Bizet stated, "Callas is Carmen." The Callas career effectively ended when she was no longer able to control her increasingly recalcitrant voice. That her artistry was based on a sound technique certainly helped her extend her career when is would have been the death knell for a lesser personality.

 

In some ways Sills did the same thing in her recording of Roberto Devereux as the crotchety Queen Elisabetta as alluded to in a previous posting in this thread.

[AdamSmith]

Nice Amazon 'reader review' of the Schmidt-Isserstedt Ninth.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B00005ND3N/R2F0STXOXQTR5S/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1

[body2body]

Shortly after I graduated, and moved into town I fell in with some guys into Classical Music. A couple of them were players in the Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra ( then conducted by Sir Neville Marriner) they invited my roommate and I to a party where music was the focus. There would be some live performances, but over the course of the evening the focus was on comparing recordings of a single work. The first one I went to focused on Beethoven's 9th. The consensus that night was that the Schmidt-Isserstedt was still the best recording and the standard against which all others should be judged. The attendees were all gay men and the parties had rules. They would announce what recording was to be played and then everyone was invited to find a comfortable place to relax and listen. Conversation was forbidden while the music was playing or being played. After each recording there was no formal discussion. People would just mingle and share their opinions. At these soirées I heard my first recordings conducted by Carlos Kleiber, and Pierre Boulez. One evening the harpsichordist Malcolm Hamilton played some Scarlatti. I also met some very smart handsome men. Ah, nostalgia.

[whipped guy]

It seems that the general concensus is the the Schmidt-Isserstedt Ninth is the one that has best withstood the test of time. It has only received 5 star ratings on Amazon if one investigates the single CD release that contains only that individual symphony. Indeed the almost complete orchestral works of Beethoven conducted by Schmidt-Isserstedt has likewise only received 5 star ratings across the board on Amazon. (That's the set @AdamSmith references above where the reviewer singles out the 9th for special mention.)

 

What is ironic is that I had not listened to it in years... as in almost a half of a century! I knew that it existed, but never really gave it much thought compared to the usual big name Beethoven conductors. Also, regarding the larger than life operatic soloists, every time I did think of the recording I figured that they were chosen solely for marketing reasons. Of course they probably were, knowing Terry McCuin (spelling?) who was one of the individuals in charge of the Classicsl division at Decca/London at the time if memory serves me. They are almost too smooth for the rough and ready vocal writing that was Beethoven's way with the voice. Perhaps their smoothness and ability to easily negotiate any vocal hurdles is what's make the vocal portion of the recording so special and contributes to its overall success.

[AdamSmith]

They are almost too smooth for the rough and ready vocal writing that was Beethoven's way with the voice. Perhaps their smoothness and ability to easily negotiate any vocal hurdles is what's make the vocal portion of the recording so special and contributes to its overall success.

Yes! Yet, in accord with both sides of what you say here and elsewhere, the vocal performances are the one element where I think Lenny B.'s live-recorded 1970 Vienna Ninth clearly outshines even the Schmidt-Isserstedt. Partly at least from what you mentioned before about Sutherland, that her studio recordings could be limp and dead-sounding compared with live performance.

 

The marvelous video of that gorgeously staged 1970 occasion enhances the listening that much further.

[whipped guy]

Yes! Yet, in accord with both sides of what you say here and elsewhere, the vocal performances are the one element where I think Lenny B.'s live-recorded 1970 Vienna Ninth clearly outshines even the Schmidt-Isserstedt. Partly at least from what you mentioned before about Sutherland, that her studio recordings could be limp and dead-sounding compared with live performance.

 

The marvelous video of that gorgeously staged 1970 occasion enhances the listening that much further.

Virtually all of the competition features a less smooth vocal quartet and that sort of complements the Beethoven style and is what we are most used to. Incidentally, as far as Sutherland is concerned she is in more youthful voice in her first recording with Amsermet that we have also discussed. She had a brighter sound on that earlier recording that was similar to her above mentioned "Art of the Prima Donna" album. Of course the pitch issues of that recording in order to get it to fit on one LP gave her an even brighter souud. In the Schmidt-Isserstedt she has a larger, plusher, and more sensuous sound that was typical of her work in the mid 1960's to mid 1970's. Indeed all the voices in S-I are operatically speaking larger than life with the possible exception of Horne, but her unique timbre gave it penetrating power in compensation. Also, it must be remembered that even though their sound was quite different , for some magical reason the voices of Sutherland and Horne blended perfectly together. Sutherland with her covered tone and Horne with her more incisive sound always seemed to match together perfectly in spite of their different timbres. As such they became legendary, but the downside was that they were individually in such demand that opera houses found it difficult and costly to engage them together. So after the early 1970's they rarely appeared together on stage and when they did, which occurred mostly in concert, it was indeed a very special occasion.

[AdamSmith]

A separate thought occurred last time I listened to the Bernstein 1970 performance: The chorus master got such an astoundingly both fluid and articulate performance out of his singers that I imagine them feeling positively woozy and seasick after navigating their sinuous reprise of that third, impossibly florid recitativ!

[whipped guy]

A separate thought occurred last time I listened to the Bernstein 1970 performance: The chorus master got such an astoundingly both fluid and articulate performance out of his singers that I imagine them feeling positively woozy and seasick after navigating their sinuous reprise of that third, impossibly florid recitativ!

The chorus master is usually the forgotten component in the mix. However, in the last few years Donald Palumbo, who is the current chorus master at the MET, has not been shy about positioning himself front and center during curtain calls as he proudly did during this last seasons performances of Rossini's massive Guillaume Tell where the chorus is in essence the protagonist of the piece. Indeed, the MET chorus was always the weak link in the chain after James Levine rehabilitated the orchestra, and now under Mr. Palumbo they are finally up to snuff!

 

In compositions where the chorus is prominent such as Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg and Beethoven's Ninth etc., a good chorus master is worth his weight in gold.

[AdamSmith]

1926-2017. RIP.

 

Chuck Berry

American legends

Chuck Berry: hail. hail, rock'n'roll

Primal Scream’s Bobby Gillespie on the man who broke all the moulds

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/jan/24/chuck-berry-bobby-gillespie

[AdamSmith]

Well here's an interesting and funny late Rossini piece... "Un petit train de plaisir". The composer had a bad experience on a train and vowed never to travel via train ever again... A coach and horses would be fast enough for him! He composed this in response. Even though it was composed when he was a resident of Paris this video has the captions in Italian. In any event, it should be easy to figure things out .

 

OMFG

 

On a second listen, that piece makes Concerto for the Left Hand look almost (well, not quite, but in that direction) a 'cobbler's patch.' As LvB aptly tagged the silly ditty by poor old Diabelli that spawned the divine Variations thereon.

[whipped guy]

OMFG

 

On a second listen, that piece makes Concerto for the Left Hand look almost (well, not quite, but in that direction) a 'cobbler's patch.' As LvB aptly tagged the silly ditty by poor old Diabelli that spawned the divine Variations thereon.

Well It would take some cobbler to play the Concerto for the Left Hand! I just took a look at the score and it's amazing how it's written! It really looks like a score that was intended for both hands! As an example one needs to use the pedal quite a bit to sustain chords in the treble while the only available hand had then jumps into the lower reaches. I would need four hands! No make that five!!!

 

Also, since I mentioned Guillaume Tell, it is interesting to note that it was the first of many operas based on Schiller plays. Verdi alone wrote five. I wonder if Beethoven's Ninth was the first major large scale composition to feature a setting of Schiller. I also wonder if the popularity of Beethoven's Ninth in Paris written just a few years previously influenced the decision to look to Schiller for an operatic subject?

[AdamSmith]

Virtually all of the competition features a less smooth vocal quartet and that sort of complements the Beethoven style and is what we are most used to.

You know, it occurs that the reason his vocal writing is so atrocious to perform is the same thing that, at base, produced his greatness:

 

He never considered that a thing might be impossible.

 

He just went ahead and did the impossible, and then of course expected the same of his performers.

 

Most especially in those inconceivable late quartets. "We know something is there; we do not know what it is."

 

And again his own immortal quip to his publisher about the last-composed one: "And, thank God, with less lack of imagination than before!"

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vcrnuc3dir4/UVbmXfv3EEI/AAAAAAAADXM/M8IntHEA9nk/s1600/Beethoven+statue.jpg

[AdamSmith]

Nice Amazon 'reader review' of the Schmidt-Isserstedt Ninth.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/review/B00005ND3N/R2F0STXOXQTR5S/ref=cm_cr_dp_mb_rvw_1?ie=UTF8&cursor=1

"...Speed is eschewed in favor of tempi that allow some slight rubato, that allow the bombast but also an incredibly refined sense of melodic line, something some other conductors consider too "Romantic." There is no want of power, and the dynamic range makes car listening difficult - if you can hear the low over the road noises, you'll be blasted in five measures."

[AdamSmith]

And to adapt (steal ) from the great Tom Lehrer:

 

It is a sobering thought, for instance, to realize that when Beethoven was my age, he had been dead for a year!

[whipped guy]

"...Speed is eschewed in favor of tempi that allow some slight rubato, that allow the bombast but also an incredibly refined sense of melodic line, something some other conductors consider too "Romantic." There is no want of power, and the dynamic range makes car listening difficult - if you can hear the low over the road noises, you'll be blasted in five measures."

Regarding the S-I Ninth, the single CD version was released in 1988 and reviews speak of poor sound not worthy of the great performance. Such was the case with many Decca recordings from the early CD era. The review quoted above is from the "S-I Complete Symphonies, Concertos, with some Overtures Album". That dates from 2002 and probably was digitally mastered to yield much better sound. I have repurchased many a Decca CD because they were re-mastered with more up to date techniques that better represented the original master tapes. Those early CD versions often had a very harsh sound and Decca seemed to be the biggest offender in that era.

[whipped guy]

And to adapt (steal ) from the great Tom Lehrer:

 

It is a sobering thought, for instance, to realize that when Beethoven was my age, he had been dead for a year!

 

Well about nine years for me, but even worse when Mozart was my age he had been dead for 31 years!

[AdamSmith]

Regarding the S-I Ninth, the single CD version was released in 1988 and reviews speak of poor sound not worthy of the great performance. Such was the case with many Decca recordings from the early CD era. The review quoted above is from the "S-I Complete Symphonies, Concertos, with some Overtures Album". That dates from 2002 and probably was digitally mastered to yield much better sound. I have repurchased many a Decca CD because they were re-mastered with more up to date techniques that better represented the original master tapes. Those early CD versions often had a very harsh sound and Decca seemed to be the biggest offender in that era.

Indeed I own that single-CD version, and the reviews are correct. Typical clumsy failed first-attempt transfer. Adequate only for listening in the car.

 

Grateful your pointing out the newer, better version that the review references.

[whipped guy]

Indeed I own that single-CD version, and the reviews are correct. Typical clumsy failed first-attempt transfer. Adequate only for listening in the car.

 

Grateful your pointing out the newer, better version that the review references.

 

Well I have more than a few old Decca/London CDs hanging around that are only good for use as coasters!

http://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/system/product_images/images/002/045/424/original_set-of-six-vinyl-record-coasters-45-s.jpg

[+ sync]

Well I have more than a few old Decca/London CDs hanging around that are only good for use as coasters!

http://cdn.notonthehighstreet.com/system/product_images/images/002/045/424/original_set-of-six-vinyl-record-coasters-45-s.jpg

 

I remember the Coasters...

 

[AdamSmith]

That Sills clip prompts the thought:

 

That's what it would sound like (and look like!) if Betty Crocker sang opera.

 

Just listened to Sills again.

 

I am a nimnul!

 

She is brilliant in knowing exactly how to perform and connect on television.

 

I had to read and absorb the deeply insightful, but still so tediously tiresome, Marshall McLuhan for too many years to learn what she knows effortlessly here.

[whipped guy]

Just listened to Sills again.

 

I am a nimnul!

 

 

Herr Smith's new avatar??

 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villainstournament/images/5/52/Nimnul.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120128185910

 

Plus, I always suspected that he was quite the mad scientist!

[AdamSmith]

Herr Smith's new avatar??

 

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villainstournament/images/5/52/Nimnul.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120128185910

 

Plus, I always suspected that he was quite the mad scientist!

LMAO

 

On reflection, more Gyro Gearloose, I would think.

 

 

With the chemistry set I got age seven, my favorite thing was to combine two unrelated experiments to see how big a bang they would make.

[AdamSmith]

http://johnhartstudios.com/wizardofidstrips/2017/march/wiz032517dc.jpg