The organ

[AdamSmith]

What is hilarious is that the the made up lyrics are actually on a much higher level than those of the Schiller original... Speaking of which we should thank the gods of Elysium that Beethoven did not set the whole thing!

 

Of the lines Beethoven did set here is my favorite:

 

Wollust ward dem Wurm gegeben

 

Typical translation : She (Nature) gave lust for life to the lowliest

 

Literal translation: Pleasure was given to the worm

 

Reason enough to be joyous indeed!

That reminded me just now of how extremely literal is the Schiller translation on the jacket of the Schmidt-Isserstedt vinyl.

 

I reported here some time ago how, on first buying that disc at age 13 and reading that translation, I thought the awfulness of the poetry must be due to a bad translator.

 

Little did I know...!

[AdamSmith]

[AdamSmith]

If you have, as I do, a pathological investment in mad Ludwig van (than other which kind could there be, really?), this may be of interest. I recommend it, at any rate: Beethoven: His Spiritual Development.

 

Written in 1927, so be forewarned!

 

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Spiritual-Development-J-Sullivan/dp/0394701003#productDescription_secondary_view_div_1488069943058

[AdamSmith]

[AdamSmith]

It was thought that the Haydn concerto was intended for part of a church service which is why I chose the heavier orchestration. In any event, it is the only concerto specifically designated as being for organ. There are examples on YouTube of the string version with what is probably a portativ.

 

Since you mention the harmonium which was popular in France in the 19th Century here is the original chamber version of the Kyrie from Rossini's Petite Messe Solennelle in it's original version for two pianos and harmonium composed in Paris in 1863. A full choir is usually employed even though only 12 singers are specifically mentioned in the autograph score with the 4 soloists chosen from the choir. It was eventually revised for full orchestra, organ, choir, and soloists. I prefer the weird sound of the harmonium along with the two pianos.

 

Just listened to this again, and thought: Wonder if this is where Ligeti got some of his ideas for pieces such as Lux Aeterna and Requiem? Strikingly similar aural textures.

 

Rossini's genius, slyer & subtler in so many ways than the generation of bombast just before him, emanates here again.

[whipped guy]

Just listened to this again, and thought: Wonder if this is where Ligeti got some of his ideas for pieces such as Lux Aeterna and Requiem? Strikingly similar aural textures.

 

Rossini's genius, slyer & subtler in so many ways than the generation of bombast just before him, emanates here again.

While Rossini extensively influenced the course of Italian and French opera from his early years it is often forgotten the influence his late compositions had on composers mainly of the French school. As an example, Erik Satie's many miniatures for piano are very reminiscent of Rossini's compositions from the final years of his life, which he grouped under the title Péchés de vieillesse (Sins of old age). Incidentally Rossini considered his Petite Messe Solennelle one of the greatest sins of his old age! Other composers such as François Poulenc and Darius Milhaud were also similarly influenced, not to mention Igor Stravinsky who was intrigued with Rossini's neo classical style. Incidentally Stravinsky collected Rossini memorabilia which he gifted to mezzo-soprano Marilyn Horne.

 

Interestingly Ligeti acknowledged being influenced by Mozart, Rossini, Offenbach, and Ella Fitzgerald even if it is not readily apparent from his music. So the esteemed Herr Smith has a good ear ! Therefore we can also add Ligeti "ligiti split" to the list of composers influenced by the Swan of Pesaro!

[AdamSmith]

While Rossini extensively influenced the course of Italian and French opera from his early years it is often forgotten the influence his late compositions had on composers mainly of the French school. As an example, Erik Satie's many miniatures for piano are very reminiscent of Rossini's compositions from the final years of his life, which he grouped under the title Péchés de vieillesse (Sins of old age). Incidentally Rossini considered his Petite Messe Solennelle one of the greatest sins of his old age! Other composers such as François Poulenc and Darius Milhaud were also similarly influenced, not to mention Igor Stravinsky who was intrigued with Rossini's neo classical style. Incidentally Stravinsky collected Rossini memorabilia which he gifted to mezzo-soprano Marilyn Horne.

 

Interestingly Ligeti acknowledged being influenced by Mozart, Rossini, Offenbach, and Ella Fitzgerald even if it is not readily apparent from his music. So the esteemed Herr Smith has a good ear ! Therefore we can also add Ligeti "ligiti split" to the list of composers influenced by the Swan of Pesaro!

OMG

 

Entirely ignorant of late Rossini until your discursus here.

 

Consider you have shot the first neutron into the fissile mass.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Pile-1

[AdamSmith]

And in contrapposto...

 

[whipped guy]

OMG

 

Entirely ignorant of late Rossini until your discursus here.

 

Consider you have shot the first neutron into the fissile mass.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Pile-1

Gee perhaps now my college physics professor (he who told me that I would nerver amount to anything) might even be impressed! Well at lest as far as physics is concerned he was right about that aspect of my life. Still, to think that it took over four decades to get that reaction going! Perhaps we should all take cover as something tells be that AS is gonna keep this one going and make it a chain reaction to remember!

[AdamSmith]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Mg6Gfh9Co

A late side note. One thing making this scene particularly effectively surreal is that they filmed it with the portrayed actor singing, then decided he did not quite measure up, so recorded a better singer -- working to match the filmed mouthings -- and dubbed it in.

[AdamSmith]

Gee perhaps now my college physics professor (he who told me that I would nerver amount to anything) might even be impressed! Well at lest as far as physics is concerned he was right about that aspect of my life. Still, to think that it took over four decades to get that reaction going! Perhaps we should all take cover as something tells be that AS is gonna keep this one going and make it a chain reaction to remember!

Actually, a confession. Hearing that late piece plus reading what you wrote gave me the sneaky idea that immersing myself in late Rossini could very enjoyably substitute for my longstanding -- but equally long-avoided -- intention to immerse more deeply in early-20th-century works. Which in general I love, but a little Schoenberg for instance goes a long way. Even gets to be true of Webern, whose work enchants me a good deal more than S., what of it I know.

[whipped guy]

Well here's an interesting and funny late Rossini piece... "Un petit train de plaisir". The composer had a bad experience on a train and vowed never to travel via train ever again... A coach and horses would be fast enough for him! He composed this in response. Even though it was composed when he was a resident of Paris this video has the captions in Italian. In any event, it should be easy to figure things out .

 

[AdamSmith]

the Schiller translation on the jacket of the Schmidt-Isserstedt vinyl.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Choral-Ludwig-van/dp/B00AIAKLNI

[AdamSmith]

"Dame Joan Sutherland blows up the BBC's microphone with an enormous high D in this live recording of 'Let the Bright Seraphim' from Handel's 'Samson' in January of 1959 at Covent Garden."

 

 

From an entire YouTube channel devoted to her:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3p14VXVnLVCPlEq1sAAmYg

 

Nice note in her Wikipedia entry...

 

French soprano Natalie Dessay states, "She had a huge, huge voice and she was able to lighten suddenly and to take this quick coloratura and she had also the top high notes like a coloratura soprano but with a big, huge voice, which is very rare."[38]

[whipped guy]

 

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Symphony-Choral-Ludwig-van/dp/B00AIAKLNI

The translation is by a certain Peggy Cochrane who translated virtually all the Decca/London opera libretti during that era!

[whipped guy]

"Dame Joan Sutherland blows up the BBC's microphone with an enormous high D in this live recording of 'Let the Bright Seraphim' from Handel's 'Samson' in January of 1959 at Covent Garden."

 

 

From an entire YouTube channel devoted to her:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3p14VXVnLVCPlEq1sAAmYg

Nn

Nice note in her Wikipedia entry...

 

French soprano Natalie Dessay states, "She had a huge, huge voice and she was able to lighten suddenly and to take this quick coloratura and she had also the top high notes like a coloratura soprano but with a big, huge voice, which is very rare."[38]

There is also a report that during performances of Bellini's La Sonnambula at the MET that one of the stage foot lights exploded when she hit some high note... probably an E-flat in alt! The voice was certainly very large and that included the highest notes. Even if you were in the Family Circle standing room at the MET it was like a laser beam of sound!

[AdamSmith]

The translation is by a certain Peggy Cochrane who translated virtually all the Decca/London opera libretti during that era!

I much respect and admire how faithfully literal she is with the Schiller. Much like the Sinclair facing-page translation edition of Dante. The only way to translate poetry, really. (Producing "the back side of the tapestry," as Gertrude Stein if I recall right put it.)

 

Even where her textual faithfulness becomes painfully revealing of Schiller's, shall we say, limitations.

[AdamSmith]

Better recording.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1luHn8SjjE

 

Sills, for comparison.

 

 

Or for whatever.

[whipped guy]

The Sutherland version is from he album "The Art of the Prima Donna". When Decca signed her to an exclusive contract they waited to feature her in a complete opera, but rather initially issued a series of recital discs with "The Art of the Prima Donna" being the most ambitious. In it Sutherland tackles arias from the Handel piece up to Verdi's penultimate opera Otello, with Arne, Mozart, Meyerbeer, Thomas, Gounod, Delibes, Rossini, Bellini, and earlier Verdi in between! That album is a classic today and many of the selections have never been bettered or for that matter equaled since, and even by Sutherland herself. A true veritable master class in the art of singing!

[AdamSmith]

That Sills clip prompts the thought:

 

That's what it would sound like (and look like!) if Betty Crocker sang opera.

 

[whipped guy]

That Sills clip prompts the thought:

 

That's what it would sound like (and look like!) if Betty Crocker sang opera.

 

In the early seventies there was the Sills vs. Sutherland debate. I was always firmly in the Sutherland camp and in spite of all the usual complaints about her singing. I found her to actually be much better live where she was more into the drama compared to her many recordings where she often sounded limp and cold when singing into a microphone.

 

Sills was quite talented, always alert to the drama, but pushed her voice beyond its limits. In addition, she was extremely savvy with the marketing aspect of her career. Plus, according to my Bel Canto ears she overly embellished much of what she sang. Sills often treated arias as Christmas trees which could be indiscriminately decorated according to the whim of the moment. Well actually her embellishments were well thought out but, as an example I dare anyone to try to follow the score of Rossini's L'Assedio di Corinto as she performed it (and quite differently I may add!) at both her La Scala and MET debuts! It's great singing, but not anything that would remotely correspond to what was actually written.

 

To be fair Sutherland does something similar with Rossini's Semiramide. However, her embellishments are not only much more tasteful and harmonically apt, but are derived from what the composer had written so it is often difficult to tell where the written notes ended and the embellishments begin. If one did not know that the role of Semiramide was written for a low voiced soprano who was at the end of her career and more of a mezzo one would think that the role as performed by Sutherland was written as such specifically for her.

 

Bottom line: I appreciate both singers and to illustrate that fact consider this... When Time Magazine did a featured article on Sills in the early Seventies, they accompanied that piece with an article about Sutherland that was entitled "A Seperate Greatness". That was only fair and illustrated that we were fortunate to have two such individuals before the public at the same point in time.

[AdamSmith]

@whipped guy, you do a masterful job of constructing the best possible case for appreciating La Sills's granted genuine talents.

 

But at the end of the day, Sutherland v. Sills still seems like comparing Michelangelo with, say, Andrew Wyeth.

 

[whipped guy]

@whipped guy, you do a masterful job of constructing the best possible case for appreciating La Sills's granted genuine talents.

 

But at the end of the day, Sutherland v. Sills still seems like comparing Michelangelo with, say, Andrew Wyeth.

 

Well, I agree, and I of course was being a bit diplomatic...

 

However. to really appreciate Sills one needs to hear her before she became really famous. She was outstanding in the sixties and especially as Cleopatra in the RCA recording of of the NYCO production of Handel's Giulio Cesare, which recording had absolutely nothing to do with what Handel wrote,.. Zip, Zero, Nada, Niente!!! However, again great singing! She is also spectacular in the live recording of her 1969 La Scala debut as referenced above and even better in the dress rehearsal which was recorded as well. That event was covered by Time Magazine and solidified her fame. Her first widely circulated complete commercial opera recording as a famous Diva was as Queen Elizabeth in Donizetti's Roberto Devereux. She absolutely nails the dramatic essence of the crotchety old queen, but her voice unfortunately sounds worn as well and she never totally regained her youthful 1960's sound. Of course that was true of early Sutherland as well, but Sutherland's voice became larger, creamier, plusher, etc and the top remained solid with a wonderful ping to it. Just compare her two Beethoven 9th recordings or her two Lucia or Puritani recordings . Sills voice lost her youthful sheen and by the time she got to the MET her highest notes were not always things of beauty either, but she like Callas, whose voice went through a downhill spiral as well, had a great technique and a certain dramatic commitment and that saved the day. Sutherland lasted longer, but even she sang a bit too much when she was past her prime.

 

I was able to compare Sutherland and Sills live in Donizetti's La Fille du Regiment (The Daughter of the Regiment). Sutherland played the part with droll elegance and vocal eloquence... Sills was a total tomboy and sang the role in like manner tossing coloratura roulades in the air like a quarterback going for a Hail Mary! That says it all.

[body2body]

Some of my earliest Operatic memories came from NYCO's annual sit down at Music Center in Los Angeles. I was dating a girl ( it was a long time ago) whose parents were members of "The Founders" an elite club who donated substantial sums to The Los Angeles Music Center Foundation. They had season tickets to everything. They invited me to join them at the Opera in 1967, the Opera was "Giulio Cesare" with Sills and Treigle. It was fabulous. I later saw Sills as the three Heroines in "The Tales of Hoffmann" again with Treigle (which also had beautiful decors by Ming Cho Lee), and as the Queen of Shemakha in "Le Coq d'Or" I was enraptured by her performances ( but I knew nothing). City Opera in those days was so exciting. I also saw Frank Corsaro's ground breaking production of Janacek's " The Makropolus Case", and a special favorite Poulenc's "The Telephone" with Marilyn Niska tearing up the scenery.

Here is a clip of Sills in "Le Coq d'Or" which does not get performed much anymore.

[+ honcho]

That Sills clip prompts the thought:

 

That's what it would sound like (and look like!) if Betty Crocker sang opera.

 

 

I think this comment was a bit unfair. Being 1977, it was not exactly early in Sill's carreer.

 

 

And please be kind to the trumpeter, Doc Severinsen, who was primarily a leader of jazz bands. My guess was this was recorded during an instance of the tonight show.

 

Severinsen used to tour the country leading workshop for high school big-bands. He came to my high school in Albuquerque, in 1967, and was really kind, supportive and encouraging to the kids there (and not-at-all full of himself).

 

Ironically, after that clipped finished, next one up was Kathleen Battle and Winton Marsalis (who had a bit more of a rep as a classical player, although he, too, is noted for his Jazz work):