The organ

[AdamSmith]

I'm out!

One is strongly advised to look neither down nor up, but only straight ahead!

[AdamSmith]

[AdamSmith]

We interrupt our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[AdamSmith]

Ansermet.

[AdamSmith]

Hah! @whipped guy, here is that Ansermet Ninth you mentioned possessing in youth:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD5bfDzEsO4

 

Mein Gott! I see what you mean. The pitch is FUBAR.

[whipped guy]

LOL! Of course I got that as a Christmas present when I was all of 12. It shaped what I considered the Ninth to be seemingly forever. Of course I had no clue about the pitch and I read about it years later as London Records wanted to get the whole thing on one LP. To achieve that the third movement was split over two sides and as I recall it was not even at the most opportune time either. Plus I doubt that the turntable that my dad had purchased at Radio Shack was even spinning at the correct 33 1/3 revolutions per minute. So I was probably listening in E-flat minor which with six flats ain't exactly the most common key.

 

In any event, compared to the overly inflated interpretations by many conductors who specialized in the German repertory at the time Ansermet was actually closer to many of the present day HIPster conductors. Just listen to the final movement's Turkish March tenor solo and the final minute of the performance and one finds a certain lightness that is foreign to conductors of the German school... no this ain't Wihelm or Herbert at the podium!

 

Also, this was the first time that I heard the voice of Joan Sutherland, who for all of her flaws became one of my favorite singers. It was the first recording that I owned that featured operatic voices. Still even at the age of twelve I realized that Beethoven really did not totally understand the human voice be it for soloists or chorus... and that troubled me.

 

When I finally discovered the operatic Mozart and the Bel Canto composers who really understood and knew how to write for the voice things fell into place and the rest was history. That would not happen until the ripe old age of 14-15 or so.

 

Heck I knew I liked flogging well before that... like when I was still in the single digits.

[AdamSmith]

BTW, what I meant by this rather arcanely stated interpretation is that Koopman would certainly know Chapuis' recorded performance of this piece. (My Oberlin organ performance friend once said Chapuis is viewed in the profession as the "organist's organist." Much as my beloved Stevens is often termed a "poet's poet.")

 

Anyway, in trying to find some interpretive mode that would not sound like a copy of Chapuis, Koopman invented something strange and, on first hearing, rather interesting. But on subsequent listenings, to me, it really had nothing to do with the music as written.

On advice given here several years ago, I have put myself through the considerable ordeal of listening to, and earnestly trying to understand and internalize, Cameron Carpenter.

 

My apologies. He is a Virgil Fox, with a technically very capable brain.

 

But still with zero genuine aesthetic apprehension.

[whipped guy]

On advice given here several years ago, I have put myself through the considerable ordeal of listening to, and earnestly trying to understand and internalize, Cameron Carpenter.

 

My apologies. He is a Virgil Fox, with a technically very capable brain.

 

But still with zero genuine aesthetic apprehension.

There used to be a Pizza Joint in Groton, CT called Pizza, Pipes, and Pandemonium. It featured an organ and they hired various orgsnists to play during the busy hours. I can imagine that if it were still in existence that Cameron Carpenter would most likely be appearing there. Unfortunately we will never know...

 

I never got there, but a cousin was an organist and played at the place on occasion. The pizza was god awful, but the large pipe organ was set up in the middle of the room and you could see the various components of the mechanism. That was the main feature of the place. Of course you had to supply your own pandemonium...

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-feNZnt2o8Is/VDw-RR7dIZI/AAAAAAADX-0/ePxwXwsO2Q4/s1600/37559_409277298226_2222704_n.jpg

[AdamSmith]

There used to be a Pizza Joint in Groton, CT called Pizza, Pipes, and Pandemonium. It featured an organ and they hired various orgsnists to play during the busy hours. I can imagine that if it were still in existence that Cameron Carpenter would most likely be appearing there. Unfortunately we will never know...

 

I never got there, but a cousin was an organist and played at the place on occasion. The pizza was god awful, but the large pipe organ was set up in the middle of the room and you could see the various components of the mechanism. That was the main feature of the place. Of course you had to supply your own pandemonium...

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-feNZnt2o8Is/VDw-RR7dIZI/AAAAAAADX-0/ePxwXwsO2Q4/s1600/37559_409277298226_2222704_n.jpg

An only too apt anecdote!

[+ sync]

There used to be a Pizza Joint in Groton, CT called Pizza, Pipes, and Pandemonium. It featured an organ and they hired various orgsnists to play during the busy hours. I can imagine that if it were still in existence that Cameron Carpenter would most likely be appearing there. Unfortunately we will never know...

 

I never got there, but a cousin was an organist and played at the place on occasion. The pizza was god awful, but the large pipe organ was set up in the middle of the room and you could see the various components of the mechanism. That was the main feature of the place. Of course you had to supply your own pandemonium...

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-feNZnt2o8Is/VDw-RR7dIZI/AAAAAAADX-0/ePxwXwsO2Q4/s1600/37559_409277298226_2222704_n.jpg

 

Very interesting, I never knew of the Pizza, Pipes, and Pandemonium. It would have been a perfect stop after I toured the Nautilus Submarine.

[whipped guy]

Very interesting, I never knew of the Pizza, Pipes, and Pandemonium. It would have been a perfect stop after I toured the Nautilus Submarine.

Well we're even. While I got up close to the Nautilus and even took a pic, I never got to the Museum. Incidentals PP&P closed in about 1985.

[AdamSmith]

 

I love how this conductor gives the orchestra precisely the information it needs from moment to moment, not a particle more or less.

 

It strikes me as how Oppenheimer or Dirac or Feynman would have conducted.

[whipped guy]

 

I love how this conductor gives the orchestra precisely the information it needs from moment to moment, not a particle more or less.

 

It is how Oppenheimer or Dirac or Feynman would have conducted.

One of my favorite Beethoven moments. That last movement is built on just a couple of motives... and Beethoven is able to produce a whirlwind of sound. Still it shows how the greatest composers were able to build an entire movement on simplicity and make it sound complex while giving things a sense of coherence. Lesser composers usually produce mumbo-jumbo with too many ideas that go nowhere.

 

Ludwig does the same in the symphony's second movement with a similar if even more powerful effect. Talk sbout so little material (some simple repetitions on the same note!) achieving so much!

 

[AdamSmith]

One of my favorite Beethoven moments. That last movement is built on just a couple of motives... and Beethoven is able to produce a whirlwind of sound. Still it shows how the greatest composers were able to build an entire movement on simplicity and make it sound complex while giving things a sense of coherence. Lesser composers usually produce mumbo-jumbo with too many ideas that go nowhere.

 

Ludwig does the same in the symphony's second movement with a similar if even more powerful effect. Talk sbout so little material (some simple repetitions on the same note!) achieving so much!

 

That movement truly is a miracle!

 

Yet another How did he do that? instance.

[Nvr2Thick]

LOL. This "The Organ" thread has been around since September, and yet every time it shows up in the "New Posts" section of the forum portal I think it's gonna be about something else.

[AdamSmith]

LOL. This "The Organ" thread has been around since September, and yet every time it shows up in the "New Posts" section of the forum portal I think it's gonna be about something else.

It's all a tease.

[AdamSmith]

PS That performance is one of the most exquisite applications of HIP practice I've ever heard.

 

Makes the pioneer generation of Mackerras et al. sound rather like industrial machinery.

 

Even given the differences between Baroque & Romantic.

[Larstrup]

LOL. This "The Organ" thread has been around since September, and yet every time it shows up in the "New Posts" section of the forum portal I think it's gonna be about something else.

 

It actually has been a fascinating read. I've appreciated the numerous contributions from both WG & AS. When I was 13 I remember going to Radio City Music Hall for a show AND a movie! I recall it being $1.99 p/p on a Sunday. It was Easter Season and after getting settled into our seats, two large organs suddenly and simultaneously appeared from both sides of the stage from behind curtains. I had never heard such joyous joy! They played through an entire Easter production, featuring of course, The Rockettes, and then the movie that stole my young heart - Funny Girl!

 

I've loved organs ever since. Those, and the others!

[whipped guy]

Well to make sure that @Nvr2Thick won't be disappointed regarding the fact that the thread is "gonna be about something else" I submit the following after my mention of the repeated same note theme in the second movement of Beethoven's Seventh.

 

Leave it to Rossini to compose an aria where the singer would sing only one note throughout the aria. It was written when he was all of 20 years old when confronted with a singer who really could not sing. In those days even the comprimarios were usually given an aria. The video will fill you in on the details, but the repeated one note solution saved that day and the singer who could not sing garnered quite a bit of applause for her little aria.

 

 

Never a dull moment with this thread!

[Nvr2Thick]

It actually has been a fascinating read. I've appreciated the numerous contributions from both WG & AS. When I was 13 I remember going to Radio City Music Hall for a show AND a movie! I recall it being $1.99 p/p on a Sunday. It was Easter Season and after getting settled into our seats, two large organs suddenly and simultaneously appeared from both sides of the stage from behind curtains. I had never heard such joyous joy! They played through an entire Easter production, featuring of course, The Rockettes, and then the movie that stole my young heart - Funny Girl!

 

I've loved organs ever since. Those, and the others!

 

I agree. Classical music is often like wine to me; I don't know much about it, but I partake and enjoy. I was fascinated by the organ whenever I went to church as a child. About 20 years ago my mother was treated for cancer at Duke, an extended stay for an experimental surgery and treatment. I would visit Mom and support Dad, and in the afternoon I would walk to the Duke University Chapel and listen to the organ practice and performances. The uniqueness and the beauty of the music helped to clear my mind and brought me such peace during a difficult time.

[gallahadesquire]

Yes, light years ahead of his time! One can only wonder what Haydn would have thought of those late compositions!

Yes, the same Franz Josef who was ctirical of Ludwig's Opus 1 trios! To the late quartets and Grosse Fugue I would add the Missa Solemnis.

 

Mahler clearly understood the voice. In his Eighth symphony, the Tenors are taken to an A above C, afterwhich they never descend below C, and eventually wind up on C above C, which is great fun in full voice with a whole lot of other tenors.

 

Beethoven's Missa Solemnis clearly demonstrates that he was clueless as to how to write for choral voices.

 

Bach knew how to write for voices, but ignored it, in favor of the music.

[gallahadesquire]

 

The man has no legato.

[gallahadesquire]

 

 

P.S. These MP3 files are really dreadful.

 

I need new electronics for my wonderful, albeit ancient, B&W DM3000 speakers. I went to the local Magnolia portion of a BestBuy, and asked if they had anything classical or organ music. After some digging, the sales person said "I found something by Ca-mile Saint ..." "Camille Saint-Saens?" "Yeah. That. It says 'Organ symphony."

 

"Oh, good. Let's put that on."

I also asked him to disconnect the $3000/pair B&W speakers and plug in the $17,000 / pair B&Ws. We played a bit of the organ part, regretfully at too low a volume.

"I don't want to waste your time," I said, "But what did you think of the music?"

"Oh, we should listen to more stuff like that," he said.

 

Philistines.

[gallahadesquire]

 

I love how this conductor gives the orchestra precisely the information it needs from moment to moment, not a particle more or less.

 

It is how Oppenheimer or Dirac or Feynman would have conducted.

 

Yousa! I performed the Ninth with Steinberg the following year ... unless we did it VERY early in Tanglewood Festival Chorus's second season. I know we did it with him at Tanglewood.

 

Memorable moment: During the fugue, he stopped conducting for about sixteen bars. Just leaned back and listened to it. Fascinating. Scary as all hell, too! I was 20 at the time.

[gallahadesquire]

I'm sorry to be catching up in this thread. I should try to do better.

 

Back in the Handel interpretations, I must add Sir George Solti's recording of Messiah. It's interesting, and perhaps not so germanic as one might expect. [i admit, I adore his Mahler symphonies].

 

For example, in For unto us a child is born, ca. 1:21, his dynamics are ... well, sublime.

 

Perhaps he should be forgotten as much as Sir Malcolm Sargent, but I feel not.