Vetting etiquette

[Mount N Do]

Okay Gentlemen. Whenever I contact a prospective escort, I typically, albeit briefly, spell out what I'm looking for to confirm compatibility. In that context, I always assert that I'm "extremely clean" and expect same. I also mention that it's important to me that the escort be DF. Recently, a fairly new escort in Central Fl took objection to that claiming that "he might not be as clean as I liked" but "I would never know that by seeing him". I attempted to explain that by clean, I was referring to hygiene but he wouldn't have it and just basically went on a tear by informing me that he was poz-undetectable and that most in that community would take offense at my questioining. Won't bore you with the rest of the details, but my question is: isn't it prudent for one who is neg/df to inquire if the escort is also? I realize that some may not be honest, but I figure by directly asking the question, most would acknowledge their status. What say you?

[seaboy4hire]

You can ask if someone is disease free till the cows come home but there are two factors you aren't getting. 1. People lie. They may be positive (detectable or otherwise) and say they're neg. 2. They may have converted (talking hiv here) between tests. Also between std tests they may have picked up something they might not be aware of like syphilis or maybe a lil something in the throat. Absolutely never take someone at their word when it comes to stds. Now as for the word "clean", if you are meaning freshly showered you need to state that. Because more times than not the word "clean" means one is std free in a rude tongue and cheek way. I have come across a few guys over the years hooker and otherwise that do not disclose their status. They don't feel it is their responsibility to look out for others health. Sorry not sorry for saying this but if you expect one to be up front about their health you sir will be played like the fool you might be.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ Travis69]

Greg - You put that so very well. Thank you.

[seaboy4hire]

Greg - You put that so very well. Thank you.

 

I try my best to keep it short and to the point. Thanks.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[MikeBannacheck]

Clean can also mean being "cleaned out" as in using an enema. His response was presumptuous, and I apologize you had to go through that. It's okay to stare your desires, but always keep an open mind. Sexual Chemistry is dynamic!

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Just change the wording next time to say, "good cleaning hygiene."

[+ purplekow]

. I have come across a few guys over the years hooker and otherwise that do not disclose their status. They don't feel it is their responsibility to look out for others health. Sorry not sorry for saying this but if you expect one to be up front about their health you sir will be played like the fool you might be.

 

Hugs,

Greg

While choosing not to disclose is one thing, misrepresenting is quite another. Not that it does not happen, but if you ask and the response is that they are positive, as a client you now have the information and do with it what you will.

If they are positive and lie about it, I believe there are still some states where that is illegal. Not to say that people do not do it, but it may have repercussions.

The manner in which you stated that "they don't feel it is their responsibility to look out for others health" is just plain selfish. Each needs to care for his own health, but purposely putting someone at risk is selfish.

[gallahadesquire]

With respect to my friends of the Jewish persuasion:

 

I did my residency at a Jewish hospital. I was called to Labor and Delivery to place an epidural for a laboring patient. I asked the husband to leave, as it was a sterile procedure.

 

He later submitted a complaint that I had called him "unclean." Leave us be careful in our use of language.

[seaboy4hire]

While choosing not to disclose is one thing, misrepresenting is quite another. Not that it does not happen, but if you ask and the response is that they are positive, as a client you now have the information and do with it what you will.

If they are positive and lie about it, I believe there are still some states where that is illegal. Not to say that people do not do it, but it may have repercussions.

The manner in which you stated that "they don't feel it is their responsibility to look out for others health" is just plain selfish. Each needs to care for his own health, but purposely putting someone at risk is selfish.

 

I totally agree. I can understand if one says that they are negative for any std as of their last test. But that doesnt mean something couldnt have happened in the 3-6 months or even weeks since the test. I think you and I PK are on the same page though.

 

Hugs,

Greg

Ps I hope your doing better.

[JayNY]

I'm 100 % DF, so I expect after the session to remain that way. Yes, I going to ask the escort if he's clean and DF. I dont think it is rude, to ask the escort if he's DF. Before I hire a guy, I screen him carefully. I stay away from guys who have done BB sessions and group scenes (not that there is anything wrong with it). So, if I hire you, you should expect to be ask about (HIV status, if you have any STD's, done BB sessions with clients in the past, always use protection with clients, etc..). I care about my health very much, so staying 100% DF is my number one priority.

[+ Eric Hassan]

Okay Gentlemen. Whenever I contact a prospective escort, I typically, albeit briefly, spell out what I'm looking for to confirm compatibility. In that context, I always assert that I'm "extremely clean" and expect same. I also mention that it's important to me that the escort be DF. Recently, a fairly new escort in Central Fl took objection to that claiming that "he might not be as clean as I liked" but "I would never know that by seeing him". I attempted to explain that by clean, I was referring to hygiene but he wouldn't have it and just basically went on a tear by informing me that he was poz-undetectable and that most in that community would take offense at my questioining. Won't bore you with the rest of the details, but my question is: isn't it prudent for one who is neg/df to inquire if the escort is also? I realize that some may not be honest, but I figure by directly asking the question, most would acknowledge their status. What say you?

 

I think the take-home lesson here is that each person needs to take accountability for his safety when it comes to sex and to communicate clearly and respectfully about his preferences. You may have meant "freshly showered" but if you stick it right next to disease-free, well, I hope you can see how "clean" didn't communicate the way you intended. We need to say things like "I like for us to be freshly showered" instead of "are you clean?" We need to say things like "I'm disease-free as of my last test xx months ago. When were you last tested?" instead of "I'm disease-free and expect the same." We need to say things like "I want to use condoms for anal sex" instead of "I play safe." Whether people lie, don't know, fail to disclose, don't care, whatever - doesn't matter - if you are educated about what the risks are, aware of what the precautions are that you could take, and choose what works for you AND then communicate it in clear, direct language, you've done what you can and want to protect yourself against whatever you're worried about. Your sexual safety is up to you, not anyone else.

[+ Truereview]

Your sexual safety is up to you, not anyone else.

 

Could not agree more with Eric on his post except for a small twist to the lahst sentence. I would say "your sexual safety begins with you..." if we could all take more time to care for self and others more, this dialogue would be different altogether.

[seaboy4hire]

Could not agree more with Eric on his post except for a small twist to the lahst sentence. I would say "your sexual safety begins with you..." if we could all take more time to care for self and others more, this dialogue would be different altogether.

 

I agree. For ME it's a moral issue on whether I disclose my std status. Yes if I catch a bug, I go back almost 6 months and let folk know, just incase. As for my HIV status which I do absolutely know I disclose each and every time my undetectable status.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ Eric Hassan]

Could not agree more with Eric on his post except for a small twist to the lahst sentence. I would say "your sexual safety begins with you..." if we could all take more time to care for self and others more, this dialogue would be different altogether.

 

YES!!!!! Thank you - I like that phrasing better. I'm going to use that! xo

[+ Lance_Navarro]

You can ask if someone is disease free till the cows come home but there are two factors you aren't getting. 1. People lie. They may be positive (detectable or otherwise) and say they're neg. 2. They may have converted (talking hiv here) between tests. Also between std tests they may have picked up something they might not be aware of like syphilis or maybe a lil something in the throat. Absolutely never take someone at their word when it comes to stds. Now as for the word "clean", if you are meaning freshly showered you need to state that. Because more times than not the word "clean" means one is std free in a rude tongue and cheek way. I have come across a few guys over the years hooker and otherwise that do not disclose their status. They don't feel it is their responsibility to look out for others health. Sorry not sorry for saying this but if you expect one to be up front about their health you sir will be played like the fool you might be.

 

Hugs,

Greg

 

Great points, I was gonna say pretty much the same thing. Something like "hygiene" is very important to me won't be misconstrued, like "clean" can be. I wouldn't go off on you if you'd email that to me, but I would be taken aback and might have asked what you meant, because I am offended when people say "clean" to mean HIV-/STI free, but I also know that not everyone realizes that can be offensive, I don't like to shame, I like to illuminate and educate.

 

As was said, I would encourage an open mind in regards to only seeing HIV- guys and also simply taking them at their word. Statistically HIV/undetectable guys are safer to be with than guys who believe they are negative, but havent been tested in the last year or so.

 

I also don't like the term "disease-free", though infections like gonorrhea and chlamydia are types of diseases, they just had such a dirty sound to it. Though people use to refer to STD's, they are now referred to by all in the medical community as STI's because they are simply and easily treatable infections and it creates less shame or stigma.

 

Many STI'S are undetectable, so if you are giving head without a condom or eating ass without a dental dam (does anyone?), you are one day gonna get an STI and it isn't a big deal. Everyone needs to get tested every 3 months. If that's difficult based on location, privacy, whatever, look into these new at home test kits that are starting to come on the market, it's important!!!

[+ Lance_Navarro]

I'm 100 % DF, so I expect after the session to remain that way. Yes, I going to ask the escort if he's clean and DF. I dont think it is rude, to ask the escort if he's DF. Before I hire a guy, I screen him carefully. I stay away from guys who have done BB sessions and group scenes (not that there is anything wrong with it). So, if I hire you, you should expect to be ask about (HIV status, if you have any STD's, done BB sessions with clients in the past, always use protection with clients, etc..). I care about my health very much, so staying 100% DF is my number one priority.

 

How often are you tested, just out of curiosity?

[+ quoththeraven]

How often are you tested, just out of curiosity?

 

Or, to put it a different way, you believe you are STI-free, but that information is only as good as your latest test, the relevant incubation periods, and the rigor of your risk management practices. Similarly, the most you can reasonably expect to learn from someone else (leaving aside that people can lie about this too) is when he was last tested and the results. That's still not a guarantee.

[Mount N Do]

Or, to put it a different way, you believe you are STI-free, but that information is only as good as your latest test, the relevant incubation periods, and the rigor of your risk management practices. Similarly, the most you can reasonably expect to learn from someone else (leaving aside that people can lie about this too) is when he was last tested and the results. That's still not a guarantee.

So as one who could be considered fairly new to this, what are good "risk management" practices? I rarely do anal, and if I do, I'm ALWAYS "safe". I can't see myself doing oral with a condom so...

[Mount N Do]

Great points, I was gonna say pretty much the same thing. Something like "hygiene" is very important to me won't be misconstrued, like "clean" can be. I wouldn't go off on you if you'd email that to me, but I would be taken aback and might have asked what you meant, because I am offended when people say "clean" to mean HIV-/STI free, but I also know that not everyone realizes that can be offensive, I don't like to shame, I like to illuminate and educate.

 

As was said, I would encourage an open mind in regards to only seeing HIV- guys and also simply taking them at their word. Statistically HIV/undetectable guys are safer to be with than guys who believe they are negative, but havent been tested in the last year or so.

 

I also don't like the term "disease-free", though infections like gonorrhea and chlamydia are types of diseases, they just had such a dirty sound to it. Though people use to refer to STD's, they are now referred to by all in the medical community as STI's because they are simply and easily treatable infections and it creates less shame or stigma.

 

Many STI'S are undetectable, so if you are giving head without a condom or eating ass without a dental dam (does anyone?), you are one day gonna get an STI and it isn't a big deal. Everyone needs to get tested every 3 months. If that's difficult based on location, privacy, whatever, look into these new at home test kits that are starting to come on the market, it's important!!!

For the record, I won't rule out an escort if he's positive. True story... When I started hiring, I contacted an escort in Miami, who advertises to this day and who I was seeing regularly for about 3 mos, and posed all those same questions I originally posted. He was honest enough to advise that he was poz undetectable and if I didn't know what that was we probably weren't a good match. Well, I wasn't familiar with the term so I googled it. I thanked him for his honesty but declined out of ignorance. We continued talking and he suggested I should be more concerned with std's and would be happy to educate me. I thought this guy was so hot, and I was so appreciative of his honesty that I told him I would pay him his rate just to learn some more and get off just looking at him. The rest is obviously history.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

So as one who could be considered fairly new to this, what are good "risk management" practices? I rarely do anal, and if I do, I'm ALWAYS "safe". I can't see myself doing oral with a condom so...

 

I know you weren't asking me, but you can manage the risk as much as possible and ask all the questions in the world, you still could contract an STI. It's just part of being a sexually active person. You sound like you have a good idea of what safe-sex practices work for you, and I agree that oral with a condom is just not enjoyable and the risk is worth it in order to enjoy oneself. Your best bet is simply to get tested every 3 months.

[rvwnsd]

...Your best bet is simply to get tested every 3 months.

 

I second that! I'd add that you should get tested for the whole host of STIs, not just for HIV.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

I second that! I'd add that you should get tested for the whole host of STIs, not just for HIV.

 

Exactly! That's what I meant! Get the butt swab, throat swab, urinalysis, and HIV rapid & RNA test every 3 months.

[ChristopherDC]

From my understanding, DF=Drug Free, Clean=STI + STD Free, DDF=Drug + Disease Free.

[+ quoththeraven]

So as one who could be considered fairly new to this, what are good "risk management" practices? I rarely do anal, and if I do, I'm ALWAYS "safe". I can't see myself doing oral with a condom so...

 

I'm not sure there's anything more you can do other than what you already do. Condoms protect against some STIs other than HIV, but not all of them. PrEP protects against HIV. My take on the argument as to which is more effective against HIV is that both are sufficiently effective that it's more a matter of partisans of one or the other throwing shade to argue about it; it depends on what works for you. Or you can use both as long as you use one consistently.

 

As for the STIs that condoms don't protect against, vaccination can be useful (thinking of rimming and hepatitis, possibly HPV) if the frequency with which you risk those STIs is sufficient to justify the cost. Vigilance in spotting what may be symptoms in a potential playmate may be marginally helpful. So may avoiding partners who use drugs or who seem less than reliable or responsible in other areas of their life, avoiding certain acts entirely, and hygiene (I'm thinking primarily of rimming).

 

It might be helpful to have a list of the STIs that condoms protect against and STIs that condoms do not protect against with an explanation why they don't. (It would be even better to have an exposure estimate for each such as exists for HIV, but I'm not sure those exist.) I suspect that put in black and white, for most the advantage of condoms in protecting against STIs that are not HIV would be marginal.

 

The only way to avoid risk entirely is not to engage in sex acts with others. Which is not to say that's not a valid choice, but it certainly makes the point about risk more pointed.