James Levine is Stepping Down at the Met

[whipped guy]

I can't honestly "like" this post, but it makes an important point. Given what the rumors are about Levine's conduct, how is this different from Jerry Sandusky or clergy who molested prepubescent boys?

 

I agree that Levine has been a stellar music director, but if the rumors are true, is his talent a reason to keep covering up behavior that is harmful to people who are not in a position to orotect themselves easily?

 

By that standard, talent trumps harm to others. I don't buy that.

I really had only heard snippets about Levine through the grapevine, but then again I have always said that one should believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. As such I never made that color what I thought of his talent as a conductor.

 

However, if it were all to be true... IF... a Big IF! Then it is another example of celebrities (albeit a talented celebrity in this case as opposed to... Well you know the type...) getting special treatment and that is something that I really find to be a very sad side to our society.

[edjames]

OK...swear to God! Mr. Levine was a frequent patron of the infamous Rounds hustler bar on East 53rd St back in the day...nice man. I used to say hello and kid him about free tickets!

[+ Charlie]

Unfortunately, his taste for some more "avent garde" material did not put him in good stead with the Boston Establishment. Oh, those LOLs at the Friday Matinee.

 

In his defense, Ozawa started out enthusiastically, but was ALSO at the BSO for too long. And not very fun to perform under. My favorite guest conductor was the late Sir Colin Davis, whose Mozart was enough to make you long for the orgasm, and whose Berlioz was equally compelling. My, how those years are merely a memory at this point.

That comment suddenly brought back the memory of lying on the grass at Tanglewood one night a half century ago, listening to Davis conduct the Symphonie Fantastique--magical!

[+ WilliamM]

OK...swear to God! Mr. Levine was a frequent patron of the infamous Rounds hustler bar on East 53rd St back in the day...nice man. I used to say hello and kid him about free tickets!

 

Ed, I did not find out about Rounds until July 1991 because I live 90 miles from NYC. By then, I do not remember any boys, just young men. I believe (only 95% sure) everyone I hired was at least of college age.

 

Was it different earlier?

[MrMiniver]

Levine is still alive. The correct wording should be, he is a musical genius.

 

I do agree about keeping his very serious health problems secret for too long. Levine missed a huge amount of public understanding and good wishes.

 

Alive or not, he is no longer a musical genius. He did serious damage to the MET as an institution and it didn't have to be that way. He let his ego get in the way of what was right. Very very sad man.

[MrMiniver]

I dunno. Bernstein wasn't really openly gay (though it seems everyone knew) and he may also have had "a boy problem." But I don't hear harsh words about him very often - just the opposite. Why the need to attack Levine? I'm not defending his actions, just not wanting to turn this into "page 6" either.

 

It isn't "page six" it's facts. There has been a lot written about Bernstein and what an asshole he was especially when it came to other gay conductors early in his career. I'm unaware of any "boy problem" he had. But his "outing" of Mitropulos to further his own career was despicable. Bernstein was a complete asshole but not a pedophile.

[gallahadesquire]

That comment suddenly brought back the memory of lying on the grass at Tanglewood one night a half century ago, listening to Davis conduct the Symphonie Fantastique--magical!

 

I might have sung that performance, if it (1) was with the Tanglewood Festival Chorus, and (2) He did part 2 of opus 14, Lélio. On the other hand, I think we did that with Ozawasan.

[+ Charlie]

I might have sung that performance, if it (1) was with the Tanglewood Festival Chorus, and (2) He did part 2 of opus 14, Lélio. On the other hand, I think we did that with Ozawasan.

Now that you bring it up, I realize that after 50 years, my memory may be playing tricks on me. I heard that concert at Tanglewood, and I heard Davis conduct the Symphonie Fantastique, but they may not have been the same performance. I didn't save programs or make notes in those days, so I can't check it.

[+ quoththeraven]

Ed, I did not find out about Rounds until July 1991 because I live 90 miles from NYC. By then, I do not remember any boys, just young men. I believe (only 95% sure) everyone I hired was at least of college age.

 

Was it different earlier?

 

He could check out Rounds and still be abusing underage kids. That is, after all, what the rumors are about - hush payments made to avoid scandal and allow Levine to continue conducting. In that regard, at least his continuance in a role beyond his physical capabilities isn't potentially enabling abuse.

 

Sure, everyone will urge caution, but isn't that the point? It's been my experience that when rumors of this type are extant, there is in fact something to them. Otherwise the rumors wouldn't exist.

 

People wonder how it is we close our eyes to this. This is how. If a perpetrator is talented, wealthy or powerful enough, he gets away with it. At the very least it's hypocritical.

[+ WilliamM]

He could check out Rounds and still be abusing underage kids. That is, after all, what the rumors are about - hush payments made to avoid scandal and allow Levine to continue conducting. In that regard, at least his continuance in a role beyond his physical capabilities isn't potentially enabling abuse.

 

Sure, everyone will urge caution, but isn't that the point? It's been my experience that when rumors of this type are extant, there is in fact something to them. Otherwise the rumors wouldn't exist.

 

People wonder how it is we close our eyes to this. This is how. If a perpetrator is talented, wealthy or powerful enough, he gets away with it. At the very least it's hypocritical.

 

I never suggested that Levine was or was not abusing underage boys. And I certainly never meant to suggest that because Levine was seen at Rounds, he was above suspicion.

 

You completely missed the point of my post.

[+ quoththeraven]

I never suggested that Levine was or was not abusing underage boys. And I certainly never meant to suggest that because Levine was seen at Rounds, he was above suspicion.

 

You completely missed the point of my post.

 

Okay, sorry. I expected more of a connection with the original topic than you're telling me there was.

[+ WilliamM]

I expected more of a connection with the original topic than you're telling me there was.

 

I was faithful to the original topic. I asked Ed if younger guys hung out at Rounds before I started to visit the bar in July 1991. The rumors are not about the people I and many others hired there near the ending days of the bar.

 

I am sorry to take it out in you, QTR, but I read some of MrMiniver responses in this thread and other threads. This time he is probably right about Levine, but he seldom has a good word about anyone.

[+ quoththeraven]

I read some of MrMiniver responses in this thread and other threads. This time he is probably right about Levine, but he seldom has a good word about anyone.

 

Shall we say that MrMiniver has strong opinions expressed to the point of obnoxiousness as if they were the only valid opinions in the world? (And yes, they are usually negative.) That's why he's one of the handful of people I have on "ignore," though I sometimes look anyway.

 

But he is probably right about Levine, which is sad, and I appreciate that he didn't feel compelled to keep quiet about it.

 

I have similar feelings about the wildly talented Michael Jackson, who was either a child molester or a creep. But in his case some of the blame can be laid at the door of his overbearing father who made sure Michael never had an actual childhood.