Safe vs. Ask Me?

[LADoug1]

After reading this post I guess I should not think "ask me" always means that the use of condoms is up for negotiation and that the escort will bareback in certain situations.

[curiousnomore]

It means "Ask Me"!

I had this conversation with two "Safe" Escorts. Both said they chose that option because they didn't like condoms when giving oral.

So, don't over think this one. It could just be a conversation starter.

[Paddy]

ima have to see the receipts

 

The abbreviated checklist:

 

Safe Sex (Y/N/NA)

__ Condoms always (anal - gives)

__ Condoms always (anal - receives)

__ Condoms sometimes (anal - gives)

__ Condoms sometimes (anal - receives)

__ Condoms never (anal - gives)

__ Condoms never (anal - receives)

__ Condoms always (oral - gives)

__ Condoms always (oral - receives)

__ Condoms sometimes (oral - gives)

__ Condoms sometimes (oral - receives)

__ Condoms never (oral - gives)

__ Condoms never (oral - receives)

 

Proactivity

__ On Prep

_____ Number of HIV tests per year

_____ Number of days since last HIV test

_____ Number of partners since last HIV test

_____ Number of loads taken since last HIV test

_____ Number of loads given since last HIV test

_____ Number of loads swallowed since last HIV test

 

Status

__ HIV+

__ HIV -

__ HIV+ undetectable viral load

_____ Number of days since assessment of viral load

 

Integrity

__ I'd never lie about this stuff

__ I'd probably lie about this stuff, but never on the Integrity section

__ I'm probably lying about some or all of this stuff

[nycguy]

The main heading on rentmen is "Safe/bb" followed by the choices of "Safe only", "Anything goes" and "Ask me." Anyone who thinks "Ask me" is anything other than bareback fucking is kidding himself. It's just a way to try to ward off the bareback police here and their wrath.

[greatnorthernp]

I never bother looking at the "Safe/bb" section because our world has reached a point of total moral collapse**, where anything that can be said or done to make money will be said or done...anything at all.

 

All that concerns me is the here and now: No, I will not do that without a condom, and , no, you will not do that without a condom. This has been my practice for three decades, and I have never yet contracted anything, not even crabs or scabies, and I have managed to have some pretty good sex that left me amazed at my body's capacity for pleasure.

 

**Yes, yes, I know, you're the exception--and good for you--but how do I know that?

[+ Eric Hassan]

The main heading on rentmen is "Safe/bb" followed by the choices of "Safe only", "Anything goes" and "Ask me." Anyone who thinks "Ask me" is anything other than bareback fucking is kidding himself. It's just a way to try to ward off the bareback police here and their wrath.

 

I think you're pointing to a limitation of the phrasing that RM uses - safe/bb makes it seem like the options are condoms or bareback, and this goes back to my comment earlier that we need to get away from safe = "condoms for anal sex." There are many ways to have "safe" sex. Many escorts I know, myself included, choose "ask me" not because we want to partially disguise "bareback only," but rather because we want to have a conversation about what "safe" means for the person hiring us. After all, isn't our job to find out what the person hiring us wants, determine if we are willing and able to do it, and then make it happen or politely decline?

[keithhardy]

In my opinion it shouldn't matter what someone else's sexual practices are to you if you are taking the necessary precautions to protect yourself, if you so choose. If you prefer BB sex that is also your choice and thus must be ok with the consequences of such actions. The "safe/ask me" is like asking if you are positive or negative, why would anyone believe someone they really don't know that one they ALWAYS practice safe sex, and two that they are Negative. Studies have shown that the majority of people don't even really know their status and they just say negative because they haven't been tested to know otherwise. I personally know men in their 40's who have never been tested, and yet tell others they are negative. They justify this because "guys they hook up with have been tested and are negative" Moral of the story is do whats best for you and take necessary steps to protect yourself if need be.

[+ Eric Hassan]

In my opinion it shouldn't matter what someone else's sexual practices are to you if you are taking the necessary precautions to protect yourself, if you so choose. If you prefer BB sex that is also your choice and thus must be ok with the consequences of such actions. The "safe/ask me" is like asking if you are positive or negative, why would anyone believe someone they really don't know that one they ALWAYS practice safe sex, and two that they are Negative. Studies have shown that the majority of people don't even really know their status and they just say negative because they haven't been tested to know otherwise. I personally know men in their 40's who have never been tested, and yet tell others they are negative. They justify this because "guys they hook up with have been tested and are negative" Moral of the story is do whats best for you and take necessary steps to protect yourself if need be.

 

I agree that each person needs to make the choices regarding safe sex that work for him. I do, however, think it's important that we all start thinking about "safety"as more than just "not getting HIV." Safety can mean not doing any activity that could expose you to any STIs or keeping one's viral load undetectable or not having oral sex because of recent dental surgery or not using drugs while having sex because you'll miss work the next day or avoiding latex because you're allergic. I could go on and on.

 

Also, would you please cite the studies that show that "the majority of people don't even really know their status and they just say negative because they haven't been tested to know otherwise"? I would like to read them.

 

And wow - I can't believe you've actually met people who think just because their partners aren't testing positive for HIV means they must not be positive. That makes me sad that people think that way.

[rvwnsd]

I agree that each person needs to make the choices regarding safe sex that work for him. I do, however, think it's important that we all start thinking about "safety"as more than just "not getting HIV." Safety can mean not doing any activity that could expose you to any STIs or keeping one's viral load undetectable or not having oral sex because of recent dental surgery or not using drugs while having sex because you'll miss work the next day or avoiding latex because you're allergic. I could go on and on....

 

I agree with you 100%. It seems that RentMen is using outmoded terminology.

 

...Also, would you please cite the studies that show that "the majority of people don't even really know their status and they just say negative because they haven't been tested to know otherwise"? I would like to read them. ...

 

A 2011 CDC study showed that when analyzing all age groups, 34% of men who have sex with men and were infected with the HIV virus did not know they were infected. This is down from 44% in 2008. However, among men 18 to 24 years of age, 51% were not aware of their HIV infection. Here's an excerpt:

 

"Many gay and bisexual men with HIV are unaware they have it. Even though the NHBS study showed that the overall percentage of gay and bisexual men with HIV who knew of their HIV infection increased from 56% in 2008 to 66% in 2011, there were still many who did not know they had HIV. Among those infected, only 49% of young gay and bisexual men aged 18 to 24 years knew of their infection, whereas 76% of those aged 40 and older were aware of their HIV infection. Fifty-four percent of black/African American gay and bisexual men knew of their infection, compared with 63% of Hispanic/Latino gay and bisexual men, and 86% of white gay and bisexual men. People who don’t know they have HIV cannot get the medicines they need to stay healthy and may infect others without knowing it. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that all gay and bisexual men get tested for HIV at least once a year. Sexually active gay and bisexual men may benefit from more frequent testing (e.g., every 3 to 6 months)."

 

Here's a link:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/

[+ Eric Hassan]

 

A 2011 CDC study showed that when analyzing all age groups, 34% of men who have sex with men and were infected with the HIV virus did not know they were infected. This is down from 44% in 2008. However, among men 18 to 24 years of age, 51% were not aware of their HIV infection. Here's an excerpt:

 

"Many gay and bisexual men with HIV are unaware they have it. Even though the NHBS study showed that the overall percentage of gay and bisexual men with HIV who knew of their HIV infection increased from 56% in 2008 to 66% in 2011, there were still many who did not know they had HIV. Among those infected, only 49% of young gay and bisexual men aged 18 to 24 years knew of their infection, whereas 76% of those aged 40 and older were aware of their HIV infection. Fifty-four percent of black/African American gay and bisexual men knew of their infection, compared with 63% of Hispanic/Latino gay and bisexual men, and 86% of white gay and bisexual men. People who don’t know they have HIV cannot get the medicines they need to stay healthy and may infect others without knowing it. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that all gay and bisexual men get tested for HIV at least once a year. Sexually active gay and bisexual men may benefit from more frequent testing (e.g., every 3 to 6 months)."

 

Here's a link:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/

 

Thanks. I have seen this before. I think I have a different view thank Keith on what these numbers say; they don't seem to support the assertion that "the majority" of folks don't know they have HIV and just say they are negative.

[rvwnsd]

Thanks. I have seen this before. I think I have a different view thank Keith on what these numbers say; they don't seem to support the assertion that "the majority" of folks don't know they have HIV and just say they are negative.

I agree with you - the phrasing is misleading. It could be interpreted to imply that the folks who don't know they have HIV are intentionally misleading others into believing they are HIV-. I am sure there are people who do not know whether they are HIV+ or HIV- and they might say they are HIV-. There are also people who think they are HIV- based on a previous test, state they are HIV-, and turn out to have unknowingly seroconverted. Based on the information they have, they are HIV -.

[Scooter]

Have you heard of anyone sero-converting while on PrEP?

[+ Lance_Navarro]

Have you heard of anyone sero-converting while on PrEP?

 

Yes. That was big news week before last, there was a thread on here discussing it extensively. It was the first case in which someone that seems to have been taking their medication daily seroconverted. The strain they were infected by was resistant to both drugs that are in Truvada. That strain accounts for less than 1% of the HIV strains that are out there, some propose as little as 0.1%. If you think of the math though, 50,000 guys on PrEP multiplied by 20 sexual encounters each, equals 1,000,000 sexual encounters with just 1 seroconversion. PrEP is still more effective than condoms alone.

[Scooter]

Yes. That was big news week before last, there was a thread on here discussing it extensively. It was the first case in which someone that seems to have been taking their medication daily seroconverted. The strain they were infected by was resistant to both drugs that are in Truvada. That strain accounts for less than 1% of the HIV strains that are out there, some propose as little as 0.1%. If you think of the math though, 50,000 guys on PrEP multiplied by 20 sexual encounters each, equals 1,000,000 sexual encounters with just 1 seroconversion. PrEP is still more effective than condoms alone.

 

Thanks for your reply. Do you think that being on PrEP gives some the idea that bare backing is ok, or is that a misperception?

[+ Lance_Navarro]

Thanks for your reply. Do you think that being on PrEP gives some the idea that bare backing is ok, or is that a misperception?

 

PrEP is a form of protection, so yeah, it does make many feel comfortable barebacking. I'm on PrEP and it makes me feel more comfortable going without a condom at times. There's nothing wrong with that. We have come up in a generation where condom use has been pounded into us (forgive the double entandre), but it's not the only solution. People don't always use condoms and condoms do fail. Proclaiming that condoms alone are an adequate form of protection, but PrEP alone is not, is simply ignoring the evidence of its effectiveness.

[Nvr2Thick]

Proclaiming that condoms alone are an adequate form of protection, but PrEP alone is not, is simply ignoring the evidence of its effectiveness.

 

PrEP also enables us to choose which STIs require protection. If we're only concerned with HIV then PrEP is the way to go.

[MPF_1966]

Yes. That was big news week before last, there was a thread on here discussing it extensively. It was the first case in which someone that seems to have been taking their medication daily seroconverted. The strain they were infected by was resistant to both drugs that are in Truvada. That strain accounts for less than 1% of the HIV strains that are out there, some propose as little as 0.1%. If you think of the math though, 50,000 guys on PrEP multiplied by 20 sexual encounters each, equals 1,000,000 sexual encounters with just 1 seroconversion. PrEP is still more effective than condoms alone.

Lance, thanks for all your thoughtful commentary on this thread. i will certainly never think of anything goes in quite the same way and have a new appreciation for the ask me option.

[rvwnsd]

PrEP is a form of protection, so yeah, it does make many feel comfortable barebacking. I'm on PrEP and it makes me feel more comfortable going without a condom at times. There's nothing wrong with that. We have come up in a generation where condom use has been pounded into us (forgive the double entandre)...

 

I'd add that many folks have come to treat condom use as a moral issue, which it isn't. Likewise, some have come to treat using Truvada vs not using it as a moral issue. Regarding Truvada's inability to protect against certain STIs, condoms don't protect from all of them, either. As one of our new members learned, gonorrhea can be transmitted through oral sex. One could wear a condom for anal sex and then give or receive oral without a condom and acquire gonorrhea.

 

[LADoug1]

Many escorts I know, myself included, choose "ask me" not because we want to partially disguise "bareback only," but rather because we want to have a conversation about what "safe" means for the person hiring us. After all, isn't our job to find out what the person hiring us wants, determine if we are willing and able to do it, and then make it happen or politely decline?

 

This really helps me feel more comfortable contacting an "ask me" escort. To this point I have skipped any bios that do not say "safe only".

[LADoug1]

I personally know men in their 40's who have never been tested

 

I know a man who's in his late 50's and told me he's never been tested because he's always a top. He assumes therefore he's negative. Imagine having lived through the AIDS crisis of the 80's and having never been tested. I'm baffled by this and see it as irresponsible both to himself and even more so to his partners. I can only hope that he's using condoms but I sense that he often does not.

[LADoug1]

Among those infected, only 49% of young gay and bisexual men aged 18 to 24 years knew of their infection, whereas 76% of those aged 40 and older were aware of their HIV infection. Fifty-four percent of black/African American gay and bisexual men knew of their infection, compared with 63% of Hispanic/Latino gay and bisexual men, and 86% of white gay and bisexual men.

 

Note the sad difference between white men and men of color.

[rvwnsd]

Note the sad difference between white men and men of color.

Yep.

 

I have to say, San Diego is a leader in HIV/STI testing. The LGBT center has now devoted one of its few meeting rooms to HIV testing every day and evening. There's a mobile testing facility that parks in various entertainment districts (and not just in the gayborhood...I was out walking one day and it was parked in front of a bar in my hipster neighborhood). UCSD offers the early test for free. Sadly, these things rely on people taking advantage of these services.

[jimboivyo]

without condoms, prep is no longer a form of safer sex

 

ask me to me means 'ask me how crazy I am not protecting myself'

[bigvalboy]

Yes, I've always seen that "ask me" as a sign that there is higher risk involved. But I ultimately agree with sincitymix. When everyone's fucking everyone, it's safest to assume that you'll encounter some pesky bug sooner or later, regardless of whether you use condoms for anal (throat chlamydia anyone?). Even regular testing is only a partial solution, as so many infections have window periods of weeks within which they're undetectable.

So really, even with this guy, the only way to avoid any infections is to not have sex. Second-best is to use condoms. That's no guarantee that you won't get anything, but that's the same when you're having sex with anyone!

 

This...

[+ Eric Hassan]

without condoms, prep is no longer a form of safer sex

 

ask me to me means 'ask me how crazy I am not protecting myself'

 

Studies show that PrEP alone is more effective than condoms alone, when used properly. PrEP does not require condoms to be 99% effective - all you need to do is swallow a pill on a daily basis. Condoms require proper application and the avoidance of holes/tears to be 96% effective. Condoms alone are less effective at preventing HIV infection than PrEP alone - that's what the science says, over and over. I understand your concerns, and stand by your (apparent) choice to use condoms, but I think you need to make sure you have your facts straight, and then you can make the decision that is best for you.