Discussion: How many Strikes? 1, 2, or 3?

[niceandthick]

It's been a while since we have had a discussion topic in this forum. I had an experience yesterday that I would like to share.

 

I saw an new ad on MasseurFinder. Cute guy, offered sensual massage with a Spa experience. At $150/60mins his price was on the higher side (for locals rather than travelers). The ad was thin in detail and there were no reviews (Red Flag).

 

I emailed him from his ad. No response. I sent a text a bit later and he responded. He responded asking what would I like to know before we meet.I told him that his ad was thin on detail and his price was at the upped end...so I wanted more details on what was included in this session. He replied "Top of the line massage in a studio in my private apartment. Availability is appt based. Set it up and I will honor your time. If not happy with service, you don't pay. I build on return clients." ..I sent him another text. "Additional pics? How sensual?". He replies "Come see me. I am licensed with a lot to loose giving such information on record...".

 

I figured that this was a fair responded and decided to move forwardI sent a text requesting an appt with date/time specified. No response. I sent another text later in the evening. Still no response (Red Flags). I sent one more text the fabout an hour or so before the time I had been requesting. He responded "Sorry. Phone was out of battery. Forgot my charger (Red Flag). 1:30 is open". I confirmed and he sent the address.

 

He apologized for the condition of his apartment. He said "I am a single guy". It was dirty and junky. Far from Spa like(Red Flag). He led me to the massage room and excused himself. I got undressed and got onto the table. I could hear him stirring around in other parts of the apartment. After 10mins he finally reurned. I asked for a Bolster. He said that he had forgotten it at his last outcall (Red Flag). I also noticed that he had changed his clothes. He had on an ratty and wrinkled tank and shorts (Red Flag). He improvised with the make-shift bolster and the session finally began.

 

So...he starts the massage. Oil/Lotion just seems to be dripping everywhere (Red Flag). I couldn't tell if he was a skilled masseur or if he was just using a couple of techniques that someone had shown him (Red Flag). I started thinking of an exit strategy. I was NOT going to drop another $150 on a bad massage or a rub&tug...no matter how damn cute he was.

 

About 15mins into the session, I raised my head off the table and said "I am going to stop you here. You said that if I didn't like the session, then it was free. Well I am not going to waste anymore of your time or mine. I don't like the session".

 

He was very apologetic. He was sorry that I didn't like it. I got dressed quickly and was heading towards the door. I was going to give him $20 for his time and materials. He said "I will not take your money. Please come back again and let me give you a free massage. I pride myself on my massage skills and have never had anyone that didn't like it. I am sorry I was a little disoriented. I was late in preparing for you. I just got back from an outcall and left some of my stuff there including my lotion so the lotion I was using on you was bad. You are also a big guy and the table was too high. I should have lowered it, but I was already late in starting the session. Please let me give you a free session. I promise that you will be satisfied".

 

So...there were so many red flags during this whole process. I still let them slide. However, I was proud of myself for getting up off the table. His apology and explanations seem reasonable so I decided to give it a second shot. I have booked to go back on Friday for the free session. Unless he gives me a killer massage and does back flips on my dick...there is no way that he will overcome my first impression and live up to the $150/60min worthiness.

 

Should I go back for the free session?...or should I just cut my losses and move on? If I go back for the free session, I will feel almost obligated to go back for at least a third (paid) session to compensate him for his time/effort.

 

Thoughts?

[Nvr2Thick]

Should I go back for the free session?...or should I just cut my losses and move on? If I go back for the free session, I will feel almost obligated to go back for at least a third (paid) session to compensate him for his time/effort.

 

Thoughts?

 

If you choose to go back for the free massage I'd view it as a calculated risk. Based on what you've already described I believe that it's fairly likely that he won't try to scam you, rip you off or create drama. He might though. If you haven't verified his license, that's a step you might take before considering options.

 

One possibility is that he's a very new and inexperienced masseur, and that his skills were not evident because he has not had sufficient experience to develop them. As you know a trained masseur will not have had the practice to have developed good methods or a good feel for what works for different types of clients.

 

I could come up with speculation for dozens of well-meaning or manipulative scenarios. In the end it comes down to what you want. You've already said "I was NOT going to drop another $150 on a bad massage or a rub&tug", however, following through with this guy would be a risky investment that might or might not pan out. You've also already said "Unless he gives me a killer massage and does back flips on my dick...there is no way that he will overcome my first impression and live up to the $150/60min worthiness." This suggests that you don't believe that it is a worthwhile investment.

 

I could be off-base it seems as if you're asking the question because either:

 

* You think the guy is cute and you're projecting some wishful thinking.

* You're a nice guy and you want things to work out for him.

 

Again, I don't know for sure and I don't want to speculate too much about you personally. I believe the answer to your question lies in your own motivations, the likelihood they will pan out, and your willingness to invest the time and potentially the money even if it means disappointment. If I had to guess I would say that you'd be disappointed by a disorganized and unskilled guy, but you wouldn't get that miserable burn we get when we've been ripped off or scammed.

[bigvalboy]

It's been a while since we have had a discussion topic in this forum. I had an experience yesterday that I would like to share.

 

I saw an new ad on MasseurFinder. Cute guy, offered sensual massage with a Spa experience. At $150/60mins his price was on the higher side (for locals rather than travelers). The ad was thin in detail and there were no reviews (Red Flag).

 

I emailed him from his ad. No response. I sent a text a bit later and he responded. He responded asking what would I like to know before we meet.I told him that his ad was thin on detail and his price was at the upped end...so I wanted more details on what was included in this session. He replied "Top of the line massage in a studio in my private apartment. Availability is appt based. Set it up and I will honor your time. If not happy with service, you don't pay. I build on return clients." ..I sent him another text. "Additional pics? How sensual?". He replies "Come see me. I am licensed with a lot to loose giving such information on record...".

 

I figured that this was a fair responded and decided to move forwardI sent a text requesting an appt with date/time specified. No response. I sent another text later in the evening. Still no response (Red Flags). I sent one more text the fabout an hour or so before the time I had been requesting. He responded "Sorry. Phone was out of battery. Forgot my charger (Red Flag). 1:30 is open". I confirmed and he sent the address.

 

He apologized for the condition of his apartment. He said "I am a single guy". It was dirty and junky. Far from Spa like(Red Flag). He led me to the massage room and excused himself. I got undressed and got onto the table. I could hear him stirring around in other parts of the apartment. After 10mins he finally reurned. I asked for a Bolster. He said that he had forgotten it at his last outcall (Red Flag). I also noticed that he had changed his clothes. He had on an ratty and wrinkled tank and shorts (Red Flag). He improvised with the make-shift bolster and the session finally began.

 

So...he starts the massage. Oil/Lotion just seems to be dripping everywhere (Red Flag). I couldn't tell if he was a skilled masseur or if he was just using a couple of techniques that someone had shown him (Red Flag). I started thinking of an exit strategy. I was NOT going to drop another $150 on a bad massage or a rub&tug...no matter how damn cute he was.

 

About 15mins into the session, I raised my head off the table and said "I am going to stop you here. You said that if I didn't like the session, then it was free. Well I am not going to waste anymore of your time or mine. I don't like the session".

 

He was very apologetic. He was sorry that I didn't like it. I got dressed quickly and was heading towards the door. I was going to give him $20 for his time and materials. He said "I will not take your money. Please come back again and let me give you a free massage. I pride myself on my massage skills and have never had anyone that didn't like it. I am sorry I was a little disoriented. I was late in preparing for you. I just got back from an outcall and left some of my stuff there including my lotion so the lotion I was using on you was bad. You are also a big guy and the table was too high. I should have lowered it, but I was already late in starting the session. Please let me give you a free session. I promise that you will be satisfied".

 

So...there were so many red flags during this whole process. I still let them slide. However, I was proud of myself for getting up off the table. His apology and explanations seem reasonable so I decided to give it a second shot. I have booked to go back on Friday for the free session. Unless he gives me a killer massage and does back flips on my dick...there is no way that he will overcome my first impression and live up to the $150/60min worthiness.

 

Should I go back for the free session?...or should I just cut my losses and move on? If I go back for the free session, I will feel almost obligated to go back for at least a third (paid) session to compensate him for his time/effort.

 

Thoughts?

 

I would not go back. I would cut my losses, but then I never would have proceeded after the second text when he didn't respond. Battery or not, the real pros, like the Rod Hagen's don't do business like that, and when your money is on the line, and paying "top dollar" you should expect nothing but the best. AND once you arrived and the place was a mess, including the masseur, and using cheap oils? an absolute no no, why would you go back? What losses have you suffered? As I understand it, no money was exchanged. Find another masseur, do a "411" on Daddy's and start again. IMO

 

I agree with N2T, I think there is another motivation for you wanting to proceed after all that.

[maninsoma]

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably return -- but I'd return with a more open mind. In other words, I wouldn't expect "backflips on my dick" but rather a good massage and, at his rate, a nice happy ending. If you really know that you're going to be disappointed because of all of the disappointments involved in your first contact with him, then I think you should spare him the effort of attempting to please you.

 

I'm with the others, though, who probably wouldn't have even made as many attempts to contact him in the first place. I assume that if someone cannot reply to an email and then stops communicating via text that they're not organized enough to deserve my business.

[niceandthick]

 

I could be off-base it seems as if you're asking the question because either:

 

* You think the guy is cute and you're projecting some wishful thinking.

* You're a nice guy and you want things to work out for him.

 

Again, I don't know for sure and I don't want to speculate too much about you personally. I believe the answer to your question lies in your own motivations, the likelihood they will pan out, and your willingness to invest the time and potentially the money even if it means disappointment. If I had to guess I would say that you'd be disappointed by a disorganized and unskilled guy, but you wouldn't get that miserable burn we get when we've been ripped off or scammed.

 

I asked the question because I wanted to stir up some discussion in this group instead of the 411 requests that dominate this forum lately. This was an event that happened to me and I thought that it might be a good discussion topic.

 

As noted, I have already decided to return on Friday. At this moment, my investment has just been time (yeah I know...time = money). I am willing to sacrifice another couple of hours to give him a shot. His responses did seem genuine. I was impressed that he wouldn't take my $20 and offered a chance to redeem himself instead.

 

...and Yes I am hoping for a great massage...and Yes I would accept back flips, if he decided to perform them. I liked his location (not many good masseurs out here in the MD burbs), I liked his availability (I like to do early AM/before work sessions), and I liked his looks.

[+ Travis69]

Will you be happy with just a good massage for $150.00? If he was going to "do back flips" he would have grabbed you by the balls when you were there and led you to the bed to make up for his dirty apartment and bad massage.

[bomerrang]

 

He apologized for the condition of his apartment. He said "I am a single guy". It was dirty and junky. Far from Spa like(Red Flag). He led me to the massage room and excused himself. I got undressed and got onto the table. I could hear him stirring around in other parts of the apartment. After 10mins he finally reurned. I asked for a Bolster. He said that he had forgotten it at his last outcall (Red Flag). I also noticed that he had changed his clothes. He had on an ratty and wrinkled tank and shorts (Red Flag). He improvised with the make-shift bolster and the session finally began.

 

Mr. Nice&Thick, do NOT go back is my opinion.

You got onto the table and he didn't return for 10 minutes? (This an eternity lying face down naked on a table) No Bolster? Ratty / wrinkled wife beater?

If he can't take care of himself and his apartment, what in the world is he going to do you?

Move on Brother!

[Lohengrin1979]

You absolutely should be proud of yourself for getting up and leaving. Experiences like this have been few and far between for me, thankfully, but I have never had any compunction letting a therapist know when the experience has been subpar and taking my leave. I do think it admirable that he offered a free session in recompense and you can certainly judge if it truly was an off day for him. I still would not feel obligated to go for a third session, especially if the free session turns out to be as subpar as the first.

 

I will say that I am continually puzzled by the masseurs who advertise sensual services and refuse to discuss them when setting up the appointment. A generic understanding of sensual massage could mean no draping and no clothing for either the therapist or the client which, to my knowledge, is skirting the line but not blatantly violating licensing as no sexual activity is taking place. This of course could differ from state to state. Be that as it may, my MO has always been to let the masseur know that we can discuss the details of the massage BEFORE we start the appointment in person IF they aren't willing to discuss it by phone or email. If I find out he's not going to shuck his shorts or provide sensual touch to my liking than I thank him for his time, pay him a prorate and leave. More often than not, I've found that even those licensed masseurs offering sensual as opposed to erotic are amenable to providing extras as long as one is discreet and doesn't broadcast it everywhere. As a client though, you have every right to have your terms spelled out before he lays an oil slicked hand on you.

 

Just my two cents but it's saved a lot of misunderstanding and wasted money for me. After all, sometimes I just want a hot, naked guy to give me a fantastic massage with no interaction, while other times I want a massage that turns into playtime. I would discuss this with him before your free session and make sure he can meet the expectations you have for the session. If not, no harm done, right?

 

Lohengrin1979

[corndog]

I strongly disagree with the opinions not to return.

 

It sounds to me like he demonstrated a great deal of integrity when handling your dissatisfaction. Refusing your token $20 payment, and offering a free massage indicate to me that he really intends to offer a good service, and probably believes that he generally does. He sounds a little flakey, a little disorganized, and a little clueless, but by no means a scammer.

 

In my opinion, as consideration for the free massage, you should offer him honest and constructive feedback about the experience. As part of that, I'd give him a print-out this thread. I think it articulates your concerns pretty well. It's very hard for a lot of people to accept constructive criticism, but if he does, you'll be doing him a huge favor, and you'll be helping all of his future clients get a better experience. It sounds like he realizes the importance of repeat customers, and probably doesn't understand why he has so many people who seem happy but then never return.

 

When you do go back, it'll be interesting to see whether he "does backflips on your dick." At $150/hr., I'd expect a massage to be both therapeutically excellent and sexually satisfying. If he's not meeting those criteria, I would hope that your advice to him includes the fact that his rate is too high.

[Newly]

You've gotten good advice, but if it were me I'd go back. He acted honorably and is trying to make amends and we all have bad days where everything goes wrong. I don't think this is the way a scammer would behave, and to be honest I feel sorry for the guy. If it doesn't work the second time you're not out much except a bit of time, and his behavior when he messed up would make me want to give him a second chance. I would understand you not going back, but I hope you do.

[Nvr2Thick]

As noted, I have already decided to return on Friday. At this moment, my investment has just been time (yeah I know...time = money). I am willing to sacrifice another couple of hours to give him a shot. His responses did seem genuine. I was impressed that he wouldn't take my $20 and offered a chance to redeem himself instead.

 

The detail you've provided from your encounter with this masseur makes it clear that either he has good intentions, or you believe that he does. As you and others have noted, by returning you'll be able to provide him with guidance and feedback. As a new masseur living outside the mainstream maybe he just doesn't have good role models. You will have the opportunity to coach him on everything from technique to all the aspects of professionalism you've mentioned. He may find that he is very fortunate to have met you.

[MiamiLooker]

I asked the question because I wanted to stir up some discussion in this group instead of the 411 requests that dominate this forum lately. This was an event that happened to me and I thought that it might be a good discussion topic.

 

As noted, I have already decided to return on Friday. At this moment, my investment has just been time (yeah I know...time = money). I am willing to sacrifice another couple of hours to give him a shot. His responses did seem genuine. I was impressed that he wouldn't take my $20 and offered a chance to redeem himself instead.

 

...and Yes I am hoping for a great massage...and Yes I would accept back flips, if he decided to perform them. I liked his location (not many good masseurs out here in the MD burbs), I liked his availability (I like to do early AM/before work sessions), and I liked his looks.

 

If you do go back and it’s better than great, and even though he offered this as a free session, do you think you’ll feel a little obligated to pay him?

[niceandthick]

If you do go back and it’s better than great, and even though he offered this as a free session, do you think you’ll feel a little obligated to pay him?

 

I would most likely book a 3rd (paid) session if I found the free session better than great.

[niceandthick]

Well gentlemen, I had my free session this morning. I made it at my normal (and difficult for some) appointment time of 5am. He had no problem confirming for that time. I sent him a text last night to see if we were still on. No response. I sent another text a couple hours later. He replied right away. Confirmed.

 

He was ready on time...which was a good sign. However, the condition of the "Spa" was the same. I got on the table and the session began. I asked for a bolster again. He improvised again. This time his tank/shorts were decent and ironed.

 

The massage was OK...to..good. It was a little dis-jointed...but you could tell that there were some skills there. I guess with time, that will improve. There was nothing sensual at all about the session. I have had "strictly therapeutic" sessions that were more sensual. He did have his body/groin against my hand a bit at some parts of the session. I did not grope...but did acknowledge (with a slight rub/touch) that my hand and his groin were in contact with each other.

 

At the end of the hour he asked if this massage was better than the last. I said that it was...but that I was bit confused. I said that his ad had said sensual massage and I had talked about that before as well. However, I didn't see anything sensual in the session. His response was "I offered you free massage. That is not part of the free massage." I replied that he had advertised for sensual massage and that was what I came to him for. He said "OK. I do that now. As long as you know we discussed that it is not part of free massage".

 

He proceeded with the uninspired "sensual portion" of the session. Clothes were still on. I asked if they came off. He took shirt off and continued. I sort of tugged at his waistband...and then the shorts/undies came off as well. Nice thick wrestler's body. He continued...without inspiration...until I was "done".

 

I dressed and asked how much. He said "Whatever man. I gave free massage. You give me whatever you feel". I gave him $40...and rolled out.

 

Two Strikes and Out!

[bigvalboy]

Well gentlemen, I had my free session this morning. I made it at my normal (and difficult for some) appointment time of 5am. He had no problem confirming for that time. I sent him a text last night to see if we were still on. No response. I sent another text a couple hours later. He replied right away. Confirmed.

 

He was ready on time...which was a good sign. However, the condition of the "Spa" was the same. I got on the table and the session began. I asked for a bolster again. He improvised again. This time his tank/shorts were decent and ironed.

 

The massage was OK...to..good. It was a little dis-jointed...but you could tell that there were some skills there. I guess with time, that will improve. There was nothing sensual at all about the session. I have had "strictly therapeutic" sessions that were more sensual. He did have his body/groin against my hand a bit at some parts of the session. I did not grope...but did acknowledge (with a slight rub/touch) that my hand and his groin were in contact with each other.

 

At the end of the hour he asked if this massage was better than the last. I said that it was...but that I was bit confused. I said that his ad had said sensual massage and I had talked about that before as well. However, I didn't see anything sensual in the session. His response was "I offered you free massage. That is not part of the free massage." I replied that he had advertised for sensual massage and that was what I came to him for. He said "OK. I do that now. As long as you know we discussed that it is not part of free massage".

 

He proceeded with the uninspired "sensual portion" of the session. Clothes were still on. I asked if they came off. He took shirt off and continued. I sort of tugged at his waistband...and then the shorts/undies came off as well. Nice thick wrestler's body. He continued...without inspiration...until I was "done".

 

I dressed and asked how much. He said "Whatever man. I gave free massage. You give me whatever you feel". I gave him $40...and rolled out.

 

Two Strikes and Out!

 

Well kudos to you for going back, and I am guessing you would not have rested easy until you resolved all of this. In the end I think it was important that you listened to all the different advice and then made your own decision. For me there were just too many red flags coming out of the gates, but it's good that you went. Thanks for sharing the experience.

[thickornotatall]

It sounds like you were looking for trouble...expecting the worst..and...you got it!....We all have some sort of lofty expectations and some low down one's too....Sometimes you don't get what you want....you get what you need...(Rolling Stones)

[Nvr2Thick]

I'm glad you were able to get some closure without it being a ripoff or some other disaster. Every now and then I think we have these types of meetings and leave wondering if it could have been better -- if he was the one that got away.

 

Yesterday I met a new local masseur. I had no idea which way it was going to go but it turned out to be professional and therapeutic, with draping. The masseur was relatively new to the game and is trying to establish a regular client base. When we were finished I did offer up some unsolicited suggestions (when you meet a client for the first time be engaging and don't rush to get started, when you massage the arms always continue the stroke down to the fingertips, offer a bottle of water at the end of the massage, if you're unhappy don't blame entire states for your problems...). At first he was put off, and was in a hurry to get me out the door; but then he realized I might really have some insight into how to retain repeat clients. We ended up talking for ten minutes or so, with him asking questions and clarifying my recommendations.

 

I had been thinking about your question and your experience that led to starting this thread when I went in to the session. You're right - it was a good discussion topic, and it did stir up some productive thought.