Changes the 'deal'

[N13]

What is the suggested way to handle a situation that I find is all too often in play. You tell the escort exactly what you are looking for in a session (being topped, kissing, etc.), give a fairly reasonable self-description, and even underline that if they can't comply, the session is not going to work? At the session, the escort explains that he really doesn't like to kiss, can't get hard and pretends that you never discussed these things with him. This in combination with escorts that expect that their needs are paramount, leads me to question why I should spend my money on them. The usual answer seems to be, "Give them some money and send them on their way." Why? If they are the ones that are not keeping the bargain, why should the 'John' have to pay anything?

 

The other side of the question is, How can we get what we want?

[Jscott]

I second the question.

[Xander]

Half the money, shown to the door, bad review.

[bigvalboy]

Of course you should not have to pay if they change the parameters of the deal, however that is not the real world. First of all I never or almost never entertain an escort at my home. It is difficult to ask them to leave once they are on your property, even with a token amount of money that you might give to them. If I am at there hotel, I have given a small percentage of money primarily just so that I can leave without any problems. If I intend on leaving, I am very abrupt, I do not encourage or say anything that warrants a conversation, other than to say simply, "This is not going to work, so here is some money for your trouble". I am quick to the point, look stern, determined, and I am out the door. I wear only a pair of jeans, slip on shoes, t-shirt, and no jewelery.

 

The other part of your question, I would say comes with solid research. Asking questions on the forum and reading reviews. I always will PM a member who has seen a potential escort first, and ask for more details than they provided in the review. Many clients will write very generic reviews, sometimes out of the request from the escort and sometimes out of a sense that there should be a certain amount of privacy between two people on a public forum. You would be shocked at how much additional information can be had, simply by asking privately. The more information you have the better you will be able to make a decision on who would be best for you in a hire. "Think with the big head not the little head"

[N13]

Half the money, shown to the door, bad review.

 

Why half the money. Reward them for lying?????

[bigvalboy]

Why half the money. Reward them for lying?????

 

For the record, I would never give them half. That is far too much in my opinion. I always carry two amounts. The actually fee in one pocket, and the 'token' amount in the other. That way if and when I need to pull out a small amount to end the hire, they do not see the large amount of money that they thought they were going to get. It is difficult to peel off a couple of twenty dollar bills in front of them. Much easier in my opinion just to hand them a couple of bills and then to turn and walk away.

[instudiocity]

Half the money, shown to the door, bad review.

The opinion of an escort - not to be derided, but even escorts see a need for dropping the amount, getting out the door and writing a review - Xander, I don't like the words good and bad regarding reviews, I prefer HONEST review.

 

If I intend on leaving, I am very abrupt, I do not encourage or say anything that warrants a conversation, other than to say simply, "This is not going to work, so here is some money for your trouble". I am quick to the point, look stern, determined, and I am out the door. I wear only a pair of jeans, slip on shoes, t-shirt, and no jewelery.

AGREED!

 

Why half the money. Reward them for lying?????

I think that's just a number that came quickly to Xander. I never leave without leaving something - but 1/2 wouldn't be my figure... I prefer BVB's answer and method shown below:

 

For the record, I would never give them half. That is far too much in my opinion. I always carry two amounts. The actually fee in one pocket, and the 'token' amount in the other. That way if and when I need to pull out a small amount to end the hire, they do not see the large amount of money that they thought they were going to get. It is difficult to peel off a couple of twenty dollar bills in front of them. Much easier in my opinion just to hand them a couple of bills and then to turn and walk away.

I prefer to see the different pockets as the Fee and the Tip... sometimes my hires get the Fee, sometimes my hires are so good they get the fee and the tip, sometimes my hires are so bad, they get the tip as a token of my dissatisfaction.

[Xander]

Every client I've ever spoken to told me that during a bad experience they always gave the escort half. I suspect they gave them half because its a 'reasonable' enough amount so where the client won't have to deal with the escort getting pissy and potentially violent.

 

Now, if we're asking what I would do ...

 

He'd get a nice spanking, no money, then shown to the door, and then a bad review.

[Edward]

Xander you are going to stand at attention, enthusiastically smile and be a turned on stud even though I am old and ugly? Just because I have a sense of humor and dollars in my pocket?

[bigvalboy]

Every client I've ever spoken to told me that during a bad experience they always gave the escort half. I suspect they gave them half because its a 'reasonable' enough amount so where the client won't have to deal with the escort getting pissy and potentially violent.

 

Now, if we're asking what I would do ...

 

He'd get a nice spanking, no money, then shown to the door, and then a bad review.

 

Well if the escort has lied to me, and I decide to end the hire, he'll get what I give him, and that won't be close to half...and getting pissy doesn't scare me, nor does threats of violence. Now the spanking idea never occured to me, but going forward, I might consider it...

[Jscott]

Xander you are going to stand at attention, enthusiastically smile and be a turned on stud even though I am old and ugly? Just because I have a sense of humor and dollars in my pocket?

 

If someone chooses to be an escort but doesn't restrict his client base, then absolutely he should stand at attention. And deliver everything that was discussed. Of course, the "old and ugly" client should be upfront when booking. And if the escort has a problem when he sees said client, he should simply bow out gracefully. Without payment (if he traveled to another city he should have secured a deposit anyway). IMHO. Take another service industry: A restaurant has the right to deny seating... but forfeits the money the diner might have paid.

[Daverwr]

I think BVB is right on the money with this one. In fact, I've done the two-pocket trick a time or two myself. The consolation money is usually less than a tip for a wonderful experience, however. ..... Gee, now I'm running out of pockets! But, seriously, my consolation money is usually just a token, a small gesture.

 

I think the best way to stay away from this type of encounter is communication on the front end. If the escort isn't willing to discuss the desired encounter in detail beforehand, there goes another red flag.

[N13]

I think the best way to stay away from this type of encounter is communication on the front end. If the escort isn't willing to discuss the desired encounter in detail beforehand, there goes another red flag.

 

My point is that the discussion was held and the escort agreed to the details beforehand but did not keep the agreed to agenda. In fact, the escort, plain and simply, lied! Why reward them? If 'old and ugly' (and I am not ugly) is the reason, they should not escort to begin with; which brings us full circle to my complaint that too many are concerned with their pleasure and not ours!

[Michael Wayne]

1. hire a REAL pro and not some dumb kid 2. dont give him a cent to teach him a lesson 3. actually write the review

[+ poolboy48220]

Of course, the "old and ugly" client should be upfront when booking.

I'm older (in my 50's), fat, not particularly ugly. I'm not reluctant to discuss this but I don't offer it unless the escort asks, I guess I'm of the opinion that the escort should be expecting it. There are clients who could get all the hookups they want but just hire for the convenience, but I think us "looking for a guy out of our league" types are the majority.

[instudiocity]

My point is that the discussion was held and the escort agreed to the details beforehand but did not keep the agreed to agenda. In fact, the escort, plain and simply, lied! Why reward them? If 'old and ugly' (and I am not ugly) is the reason, they should not escort to begin with; which brings us full circle to my complaint that too many are concerned with their pleasure and not ours!

a) You're not hiring the right guy.

b) The discussion was held? Really, then he reneged, but you felt guilty about reneging? Geez! Grow some balls!

c) "they should not escort to begin with"? Maybe you should not hire to begin with. (dangling participle intended) Who makes you the arbiter of whether someone else is disqualified from doing what he damn well pleases? You simply had a service issue with him, that you may have mishandled?

d) Write the damn review.

e) Go hire someone else. Preferably a well-reviewed escort on Daddy's.

[N13]

"Let's Agree to disagree, without being DISAGREEABLE!"

(THIS SIGNATURE CARRIES L.B.T. SEAL OF APPROVAL)

 

You should heed your own advice. Unless it was meant to be facetious!

 

No time now...but I will try to figure out what you thought you were reading, because your response has nothing to do with what I said.

[instudiocity]

a) You're not hiring the right guy.

b) The discussion was held? Really, then he reneged, but you felt guilty about reneging? Geez! Grow some balls!

c) "they should not escort to begin with"? Maybe you should not hire to begin with. (dangling participle intended) Who makes you the arbiter of whether someone else is disqualified from doing what he damn well pleases? You simply had a service issue with him, that you may have mishandled?

d) Write the damn review.

e) Go hire someone else. Preferably a well-reviewed escort on Daddy's.

 

"Let's Agree to disagree, without being DISAGREEABLE!"

(THIS SIGNATURE CARRIES L.B.T. SEAL OF APPROVAL)

 

You should heed your own advice. Unless it was meant to be facetious!

 

No time now...but I will try to figure out what you thought you were reading, because your response has nothing to do with what I said.

You're confused... I'm not being disagreeable. I'm pointing out to you several facts...wrong hire, if the escort agreed with you then didn't fulfill the agreement, you should have the gonads to not feel guilty while at the same time judging what another person should be doing... You have a date with an escort, write a review... hire someone who's well-reviewed.

 

That's not disagreeable at all. That you would concentrate on my signature and not the substance of my post is disagreeable and also could be construed by some as being ignorant. Sorta like the guy who has an agreement with an escort and when he doesn't get what he expected gripes about it.

I do heed my own advice. I don't bitch about situations I encounter, I am very decisive in any encounter that goes against plan, I don't attempt to determine what others should do, only what I will and will not do. I write reviews that because I want to be helpful to others. I always hire well reviewed escorts on Daddy's Reviews. Gee, I must be consistent....

[N13]

Delusional is being kind to you. You are nasty, snarky and disagreeable. Is it any wonder that so many good voices leave this forum?

[instudiocity]

Delusional is being kind to you. You are nasty, snarky and disagreeable. Is it any wonder that so many good voices leave this forum?

I will take your name calling as indication that my points are so accurate that you cannot bring yourself to admit them. I also note that you by inference you see me as a 'bad voice'. Well, some of those 'good voices' with whom you are claiming allegiance have posted exactly what I have posted. I have been matter-of-fact in my posts on this thread. I remain convinced you are hiring the wrong escorts and are figuratively dropping your shorts for the financial screwing you so readily admit. All the while you're attacking the messenger (me in this one case).

 

I'm neither delusional nor have I name called you - I did suggest you grow some balls. Apparently, you have chosen this anonymous board for their first outing. Rather than tell me where I'm wrong by answering at least one of my 5 points, you've chosen twice to put me down, actually insulting me. Rule #1, Pushing others down doesn't make you stand taller. If your response to my rather innocent points carries this much invective, MAYBE YOUR INVECTIVE MINDSET COULD EXPLAIN YOUR FAILURE TO MAKE SATISFACTORY HIRES? (There are people in this world who cannot admit to their own failure. I don't know about you because you haven't responded to any of my points, just bitched about my personality.

 

When I've found my escort hires less than satisfactory, I have said, "This is not what we agreed to in our arrangements. How is $$$ to just end this appointment now?" Why get upset? Why let a provider rip you off? Just end the appointment early and get on your way.

 

Every hire is a learning experience some you learn how hard you can cum, some you learn how fast you can leave, some you enjoy and never hire again, and with some you want to spend a lifetime.

 

My dad has a line, "It's like porcupines mating, they've got the desire to do it, figuring out how is the problem." It's the journey that counts, not the destination and how you get there makes all the difference.

 

You are posting about a problem you're experiencing and then shooting the messenger with a Howitzer.

[devonhunter]

Hey N13... You write that this is a recurring problem for you (which is odd to me, since I have never experienced this in four years of seeing clients). I have always done exactly what I agreed to do. The only time I heard of people purposefully backing out of agreements was when the straight dancers at Swinging Richards in Atlanta would boast backstage about setting up "stupid fags" and then mugging the clients. They considered it something of a game to set up appointments, knowing they had no intent of following through with the clients' expectations.

 

To be fair, no, it isn't right for an escort to renege once everything has been agreed upon; however, if this is a recurring problem, then you are either approaching the wrong type of escort (Are you approaching gay-for-pay dudes or straight hustlers?? They are notorious for bait and switch drama... Are you contacting escorts who do not speak English well? If you have a preference for guys who come from foreign countries, perhaps they are just parroting back your words without knowing what they are agreeing to... Who are you approaching, and where are you finding them?). Evidently, something that is clear to you is not clear to these escorts, and they are then surprised by whatever it is when you mention it in person. If they are consistently reneging despite mutual understandings, then that is a string of bad luck that I hope you don't endure any longer. If, however, you are not making your expectations clear (and what is clear to you may not be clear to them), have them explain back to you what they understand concerning your preferences. If they renege after that, then I don't see how any money is owed to them. They haven't provided the service for which they were hired.

 

 

 

 

What is the suggested way to handle a situation that I find is all too often in play. You tell the escort exactly what you are looking for in a session (being topped, kissing, etc.), give a fairly reasonable self-description, and even underline that if they can't comply, the session is not going to work? At the session, the escort explains that he really doesn't like to kiss, can't get hard and pretends that you never discussed these things with him. This in combination with escorts that expect that their needs are paramount, leads me to question why I should spend my money on them. The usual answer seems to be, "Give them some money and send them on their way." Why? If they are the ones that are not keeping the bargain, why should the 'John' have to pay anything?

 

The other side of the question is, How can we get what we want?

[N13]

Hey Devonhunter,

 

Thanks for your considered reply to my question. I think the concensus is that I am not making my selections as thoroughly as I should. I have to add my agreement to this. I have been making my selections on physical appeal and then tending to believe what the prospect says without sticking to the guys that are reviewed in the forum. I think I will have to wait until a well-reviewed guy fits my physical attraction.

 

That being said, the latest one who really didn't kiss and could not top was well-reviewed in a thread on the forum...but it should have been a red flag that he didn't have any actual reviews. My bad, I guess.

 

Everyone suggests reviews, but I see in the rebuttals that it is almost always the reviewers 'fault'; he was dirty; he was abusive; he was "whatever lets the escort off the hook." Since there is no response permitted to the rebuttal, it seems senseless to give an honest review that has negatives in it.

 

The answer to my original question would seem to be caveat emptor! I still, however, don't see why we should pay liars anything.

[instudiocity]

HOLY SHIT! N13 just agreed me but only after twice trashing and name-calling me...

I think the concensus is that I am not making my selections as thoroughly as I should. I have to add my agreement to this.

a) You're not hiring the right guy.

 

I have been making my selections on physical appeal and then tending to believe what the prospect says without sticking to the guys that are reviewed in the forum.

e) Go hire someone else. Preferably a well-reviewed escort on Daddy's. I have personally learned the hard way that it's not what's between the legs or how pretty the face, but what's between the ears that makes for great sex.

 

That being said, the latest one who really didn't kiss and could not top was well-reviewed in a thread on the forum...but it should have been a red flag that he didn't have any actual reviews. My bad, I guess.

Reviews are not allowed in the MF, maybe you mean well-regarded by some anonymous posters here in the forum? Maybe some escorts post in the forum seeking hires while not having to expose their rip-off methods in the review site? Thus the need for you to write honest reviews of your unsatisfactory hires... d) Write the damn review.

 

Everyone suggests reviews, but I see in the rebuttals that it is almost always the reviewers 'fault'; he was dirty; he was abusive; he was "whatever lets the escort off the hook." Since there is no response permitted to the rebuttal, it seems senseless to give an honest review that has negatives in it.

You're cementing my impression that you can't stand the possibility of being told you're wrong, especially by someone to whom you've paid full-price for half-ass service.

 

An honest review and an honest rebuttal are the true measure of both. Don't read the reviews for their bragging or salacious content. Ask yourself who's being HONEST here? Don't read the rebuttal for the denials and attacks but for how the escort handles unsatisfactory situations - is he honest and gracious or arrogant and dishonest? Does the escort seek to make amends or just pocket the money and trash the reviewer?

 

The answer to my original question would seem to be caveat emptor! I still, however, don't see why we should pay liars anything.

"they should not escort to begin with"?Maybe you should not hire to begin with.(dangling participle intended) Who makes you the arbiter of whether someone else is disqualified from doing what he damn well pleases? You simply had a service issue with him, that you may have mishandled?

Caveat Emptor, INDEED, as in every transaction in our lives! In the United States, isn't that a forgone conclusion?

 

Remember I'm the delusional, nasty, snarky and disagreeable poster who told you these same truths! Rather than comprehend my posts, you dishonestly derided me with SENSELESS! name-calling - almost like some escort writing a rebuttal?

The transactional analysis here is you failed to comprehend, then you to got your panties in a wad refusing to understand me. Maybe that's what happens when your panties are off, too? You find out that you and your escort hires have differing opinions of what was agreed to happen in the encounter?

 

There, THAT'S A DISAGREEABLE POST, in response to your judgmental name-calling... but aren't we all victims of ourselves?

[instudiocity]

Everyone suggests reviews, but I see in the rebuttals that it is almost always the reviewers 'fault'; he was dirty; he was abusive; he was "whatever lets the escort off the hook." Since there is no response permitted to the rebuttal, it seems senseless to give an honest review that has negatives in it.

Six AM, Thursday morning, sleep-deprived and sitting on a plane departing LAX, it finally hit me. What really bothers me about our art dealer's posts - I admit I fell into his terminology trap, too. He called the escort's responses to 'negative' reviews REBUTTALS. I don't know what that means in art dealer-ease, but in most applications of the word rebuttal, it's lawyer-ease for a response to an argument put forth by the opponent in a legal dispute.

 

REALLY? Should we actually see the Review and Response on Daddy's Reviews as the client arguing against an escort? And the escort's response as a legal rebuttal arguing against the facts as presented by the client?

 

I admit, I fell into the terminology confusion presented by N13. I came back here to correct that misunderstanding. A client's REVIEW and an escort's RESPONSE is not a legal proceeding. It's two people writing after the fact about their date. It's two different perspectives regarding a shared experience. No one is sworn to tell the truth. There is no jeopardy of perjury. Just two guys reporting from their perspectives some facts, some emotions, and sometimes some negatives.

 

But I stand by what I've written before - everyone should read the reviews and responses from the perspective of who's telling the truth? When an escort responds is he gracious, willing to make amends, and HONEST or justifying (and possibly admitting to) his bad behavior?

 

It seems N13 wants a clear winner in every controversy - either he wins or he disengages, and goes home unhappy. But there are no clear winners. One man's prince is another man's asshole. But shared information should make for more accurate experiences.

 

N13, don't get it all twisted up in your head. Your wrongheadedness shows in your adversarial thinking. You are making issues out of nothing. Find the right guy by reading reviews and hire HIM!

[bigvalboy]

Six AM, Thursday morning, sleep-deprived and sitting on a plane departing LAX, it finally hit me. What really bothers me about our art dealer's posts - I admit I fell into his terminology trap, too. He called the escort's responses to 'negative' reviews REBUTTALS. I don't know what that means in art dealer-ease, but in most applications of the word rebuttal, it's lawyer-ease for a response to an argument put forth by the opponent in a legal dispute.

 

REALLY? Should we actually see the Review and Response on Daddy's Reviews as the client arguing against an escort? And the escort's response as a legal rebuttal arguing against the facts as presented by the client?

 

I admit, I fell into the terminology confusion presented by N13. I came back here to correct that misunderstanding. A client's REVIEW and an escort's RESPONSE is not a legal proceeding. It's two people writing after the fact about their date. It's two different perspectives regarding a shared experience. No one is sworn to tell the truth. There is no jeopardy of perjury. Just two guys reporting from their perspectives some facts, some emotions, and sometimes some negatives.

 

But I stand by what I've written before - everyone should read the reviews and responses from the perspective of who's telling the truth? When an escort responds is he gracious, willing to make amends, and HONEST or justifying (and possibly admitting to) his bad behavior?

 

It seems N13 wants a clear winner in every controversy - either he wins or he disengages, and goes home unhappy. But there are no clear winners. One man's prince is another man's asshole. But shared information should make for more accurate experiences.

 

N13, don't get it all twisted up in your head. Your wrongheadedness shows in your adversarial thinking. You are making issues out of nothing. Find the right guy by reading reviews and hire HIM!

 

lol...very impressive. This is a very well thought out and clear response for being "sleep deprived" and dealing with a 6 AM LAX departure. My hat is off to you sir....and safe travels BTW