West Side Story

[Gar1eth]

Put On Your Sunday Clothes

 

The video is a bit fuzzy, but I can't help that. Jerry Herman wrote some very funny as in strange lines for some of this--" (We are going to go...) Where the girls are hot as a fuse" and the people of 1890's Yonkers just take it all in stride that they are going to NYC to see fallen women. Ahh well who looks for verisimilitude in a musical?

 

 

[video=youtube_share;vWqqIG1sDgs]

 

Gman

[Gar1eth]

Maybe it is worth a look, after all. Thanks, Gman.

 

While it only has a 47% rating from the critics on Rotten Tomatoes, the general public has given it a 74%. I think I'm glad I'm not critic (of movies and plays anyway). I think they often loose the joy of movies or plays because they can't allow themselves to be swept away. I mean the film critics even disliked Xanadu (I'm kidding--I enjoyed the movie--but a great piece of film making it wasn't).

 

Gman

[operalover21]

Well, to give the lady some due, I don't think she's ALWAYS loud and crass - and in fact I'm not sure crass would be a word I'd use to describe her performance persona in general. But I do often feel there's something a little "pushed" in her presentation - that sense of "showing us the work" that I mentioned before - and not always the grace and ease that I wish she'd rely more on. She has, to be fair, done some very impressive work in her time - and if you go back and find videos of her early TV specials ("My Name is Barbra" et al), there's much more of that sense of ease and natural sensibility there. At some point I feel she really lost touch with that.

 

How about "overwrought?" I feel she's become more overwrought over the years. The really early stuff was pure and beautiful ... then around the late 1960s on she become increasingly mannered and she twisted every song out of all recognition (and not in the good way that a jazz singer does) ... it all became about HER and not the song. It should always be about the song.

[operalover21]

While it only has a 47% rating from the critics on Rotten Tomatoes, the general public has given it a 74%. I think I'm glad I'm not critic (of movies and plays anyway). I think they often loose the joy of movies or plays because they can't allow themselves to be swept away. I mean the film critics even disliked Xanadu (I'm kidding--I enjoyed the movie--but a great piece of film making it wasn't).

 

Gman

 

 

NO, I just thinks it's that the public has absolutely NO taste. There are people who think Dolly is a Jewish character, they don't know a thing about the source material at all.

[jackhammer91406]

Oh Dolly!

 

Say what you will about whether Barbra was good or well cast, there is no doubt that the film almost finished the downward financial spiral begun with the disastrous CLEOPATRA.

 

20th Century Fox (boasting one of the largest back lots in Hollywood) was forced to sell off much of their back lot to pay for the cost overruns on the Elizabeth Taylor/Richard Burton Epic. While the studio almost got back on their feet, the overblown budget on HELLO DOLLY finally sank them and they were forced to sell off all but the sound stages.

 

Today, whenever you drive through Century City next to Beverly Hills, you can say a quiet thank you to CLEOPATRA and HELLO DOLLY.

[Gar1eth]

Say what you will about whether Barbra was good or well cast, there is no doubt that the film almost finished the downward financial spiral begun with the disastrous CLEOPATRA.

 

20th Century Fox (boasting one of the largest back lots in Hollywood) was forced to sell off much of their back lot to pay for the cost overruns on the Elizabeth Taylor/Richard Burton Epic. While the studio almost got back on their feet, the overblown budget on HELLO DOLLY finally sank them and they were forced to sell off all but the sound stages.

 

Today, whenever you drive through Century City next to Beverly Hills, you can say a quiet thank you to CLEOPATRA and HELLO DOLLY. [/color][/size][/font]

Part of the reason was 20th Century Fox made a stupid deal to hold showing the movie until the play ended on Broadway. As the play was still going on, the movie stayed in the vaults for over a year while the creditors still needed to be paid. Finally they reached an arrangement, and paid the producers of the musical a large some of money to enable the film to be released. It was the 5th highest grossing film of the year. That should have been a high enough gross to save the film.

 

As for the argument that the people don't know the source material and think Dolly was Jewish- I have to say the snips of the Broadway show I've seen dont convince me that Carol Channing has ever set a foot in the Emerald Isle.

 

And producers and directors change the source material to suit them. It makes the greatest sense in the world for someone whose last name was 'Levi' to be Jewish. I don't really care about the ultimate source material. I'm judging the movie on it's own merits. And I like it- as well as 74 to 75 % of my friends at Rotten Tomatoes. And as movies were made for the public and not for critics, I think that's a pretty nice percentage.

 

Gman

 

PS Gotta go- I have an appointment to put on my Sunday Clothes

[jackhammer91406]

Part of the reason was 20th Century Fox made a stupid deal to hold showing the movie until the play ended on Broadway. As the play was still going on, the movie stayed in the vaults for over a year while the creditors still needed to be paid. Finally they reached an arrangement, and paid the producers of the musical a large some of money to enable the film to be released.

You can thank David Merrick for that. There is a reason one biographer called him "The Abominable Showman"

[bostonman]

It makes the greatest sense in the world for someone whose last name was 'Levi' to be Jewish.

 

Levi isn't her given name. That was her married name, from her late husband Ephraim. Her maiden name was Gallagher. (I know you already know this, lol.)

 

A thought on the lyrics for "Sunday Clothes" - even when the ensemble is singing, I tend to feel this whole song is an extension of the fantasy Barnaby and Cornelius have about New York - like the three sailors in On The Town, part of what seems to make New York unique to them is the "exotic" city girls. The sailors want to "pick up a date - maybe seven or eight - on your way" - and our two clerks from Yonkers swear not to return home "until [we've] kissed a girl." (A line, by the way, right out of Wilder's original play.) It seems natural that they would think New York girls to be "hot as a fuse."

 

But come to think of it, there's also an exchange between Beth and Jo in the musical of Little Women where they half-joke about the women of New York being "shameless." (I don't remember if that was taken from Alcott or the invention of the musical's book writer). So maybe it actually was a common (mis)conception in the 1800's.

[Diverdan]

Regardless of all the great comments and disagreements, I LOVE Barbara and have seen almost everything she does.... I just sit back and enjoy her, and having once see both she and Carol Channing live, I must say I love Carol too. I am a critic of sorts, but forgive a lot of things that directors have done wrong to produce something that mass audiences can enjoy. These films were made in a different age and for a much less critical and forgiving audience than we all have become today. Thanks for the original post that started this.... I love Larry Kent and regretted that he did not do the movie version. But, testament to the Bernstein Genius, this musical is still being revived in many places around the world, in professional companies, college and high school productions. I dare say it will belong to the ages long after all of us posting here will be long gone from this earth. I think I have seen West Side Story live at least a dozen times, and I still enjoy it to this day.

[operalover21]

Regardless of all the great comments and disagreements, I LOVE Barbara and have seen almost everything she does.... I just sit back and enjoy her, and having once see both she and Carol Channing live, I must say I love Carol too. I am a critic of sorts, but forgive a lot of things that directors have done wrong to produce something that mass audiences can enjoy. These films were made in a different age and for a much less critical and forgiving audience than we all have become today. Thanks for the original post that started this.... I love Larry Kent and regretted that he did not do the movie version. But, testament to the Bernstein Genius, this musical is still being revived in many places around the world, in professional companies, college and high school productions. I dare say it will belong to the ages long after all of us posting here will be long gone from this earth. I think I have seen West Side Story live at least a dozen times, and I still enjoy it to this day.

 

I'd rather get rammed up the ass -- repeatedly -- by a 400 lb Japanese sumo wrestler than have to sit through another of Streisand's tortured performances. There, I said it.

[bostonman]

I'd rather get rammed up the ass -- repeatedly -- by a 400 lb Japanese sumo wrestler than have to sit through another of Streisand's tortured performances. There, I said it.

 

Given THAT choice, I'd take Streisand, lol. ;-)

[operalover21]

Given THAT choice, I'd take Streisand, lol. ;-)

 

She's all yours. One of the joys of having young gay friends is that they don't even know who she is yet alone have these unhealthy obsessions with her tortured, overwrough singing

[Gar1eth]

She's all yours. One of the joys of having young gay friends is that they don't even know who she is yet alone have these unhealthy obsessions with her tortured, overwrough singing

 

I don't know how you can say that when that is what most opera sounds like to me - a strained, tortured, and unnatural sound pushed through a contorted larynx.

 

Gman

[operalover21]

I don't know how you can say that when that is what most opera sounds like to me - a strained, tortured, and unnatural sound pushed through a contorted larynx.

 

Gman

 

There's really no response to that. The great unwashed will never understand

[Gar1eth]

There's really no response to that. The great unwashed will never understand

 

Probably- dont get me wrong there are parts of, yes, Carmen, I like, and maybe a very few other operas that I am familiar with. But in general the voices do sound strained to me - especially tenors going for a high note. I once took voice lessons to see if I could expand my 3 note tenor range ( I couldn't in case anyone was wondering). Obviously I am not comparing myself to an opera singer. In fact my inability to sing is one of the many things I really regret in my life ( along with being bald, having a small tallywacker, no sense of rhythm- and a few other lacks). But the strained tone I often made on the higher notes reminded me of what I frequently hear in tenors or sopranos. But even without that, I am in general not that fond of the operatic voice. Even when it doesn't sound strained, it still sounds somewhat strained to my ears. I'm not saying I haven't heard Barbra sound strained on some notes- or other singers too. It's not to my taste in any of them.

 

Gman

[N13]

Probably- dont get me wrong there are parts of, yes, Carmen, I like, and maybe a very few other operas that I am familiar with. But in general the voices do sound strained to me - especially tenors going for a high note. I once took voice lessons to see if I could expand my 3 note tenor range ( I couldn't in case anyone was wondering). Obviously I am not comparing myself to an opera singer. In fact my inability to sing is one of the many things I really regret in my life ( along with being bald, having a small tallywacker, no sense of rhythm- and a few other lacks). But the strained tone I often made on the higher notes reminded me of what I frequently hear in tenors or sopranos. But even without that, I am in general not that fond of the operatic voice. Even when it doesn't sound strained, it still sounds somewhat strained to my ears. I'm not saying I haven't heard Barbra sound strained on some notes- or other singers too. It's not to my taste in any of them.

 

Gman

 

Suggest you listen to Leontyne Price. No strain, no pushing, just beautiful, lush music. Her "Blue Album" is the best and there is also a contemporary standards album called "Right as the Rain." You may be very pleasantly surprised. She is not your typical opera diva.

[Gar1eth]

Suggest you listen to Leontyne Price. No strain, no pushing, just beautiful, lush music. Her "Blue Album" is the best and there is also a contemporary standards album called "Right as the Rain." You may be very pleasantly surprised. She is not your typical opera diva.

 

Thank you.

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

She's all yours. One of the joys of having young gay friends is that they don't even know who she is yet alone have these unhealthy obsessions with her tortured' date=' overwrough singing [/quote']

 

I have a number of young friends also, both gay and straight. I was shocked recently when Cher and Ethel Merman were mentioned, but it was by two young friends who know a lot about music. Let's be honest, operalover, young people know few entertainers whose careers began four or five decades ago. They may recognize the name, but that's it. It has nothing to do with Streisand specifically.

[+ WilliamM]

Suggest you listen to Leontyne Price. No strain' date=' no pushing, just beautiful, lush music. Her "Blue Album" is the best and there is also a contemporary standards album called "Right as the Rain." You may be very pleasantly surprised. She is not your typical opera diva.[/quote']

 

Or since you, Gman, mentioned tenors, opera DVDs featuring Juan Diego Florez...perhaps Le Comte Ory, La Sonnambula or I Puritani. Florez has many opera DVDs, the ones I mentioned happened to just be close by.