What can one do when the local market is charging low-ball rates?

[JoeyBryant]

Just short of moving...what other solution is there?

 

I'm looking at rentboy Denver and there are only 8 guys listed, many are charging between $125-180 an hour and below $200. Then there's 1 guy charging $140 for 2 hours! I'm not trying to cut anyone down...but Rentboy attracts a clientele that are willing to paying escort's rates around the $200-250+ mark. If I wanted to offer bargains, there are sites for that. Why go on the high paying site and sell yourself short? People don't go to the Infiniti or Lincoln dealership to spend $1,500 cash on a car. They can go to craigslist and buy that. If that's all the dealership had, they'd walk away. And that's exactly what they are doing. There's a guy charging $125 an hour for incall and it makes it bad because he happens to be the only person of color of the site which gives off an even worse impression. Others are charging $200 but there seems to be no competitve rates going on. I've felt pressured to lower my rates to be a little more competitive as well, but I can only do that locally.

 

It's obvious that when you have lots of lower rates, client's come to expect that. That's been a large factor living here because many times I'll get asked to meet for $150 and anything above it they'll pass and won't go for it. It's frustrating because you know it's because other guys have failed to demand better rates leaving the rest of us to have to accept less.

 

I've mentioned that I do kiss because many clients tell me alot of escorts don't kiss. So I try to play up on that in my ad. But sometimes, doesn't matter if you can bend over backwards and do kartwheels in the bed, they don't want to give more than X amount because they know everyone else comes on and charges pennies on the dollar. I've mentioned in the past there was a client who would not book me because I didn't go for $100. The guy he hired in the past was okay with 100 everytime. Well then we met and he ended up giving me $700 the first time we met because I was so good. You're telling me he couldn't afford 200?

 

I understand clients don't want to be ripped off and get their money's worth. And not every appointment is going to cost $200. But people have to understand when you start off low, it's very hard to raise your rates and get them. It's easier to drop your rates than raise them. It hurts all of us. I don't know what to do. Be competitive? Or be the Infiniti? How long will this car sit on the lot at this price?

 

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/15-infiniti-essence-press_580op.jpg

[tyro]

Wow. I'm sorry I have no good advice for you. I will say this, however: The ONE time I hired a local-ish guy, his rates were much lower than what I was used to. (He charged $600 for an overnight, while I was used to paying at least $1,000.) The sex was good, but not much else. He could not provide the total experience. The other guys I'd hired had ALL been featured here as someone's #1, a runner-up, or EoY. There IS a market for the Infiniti.

T

[ErieBear]

Have you ever thought about contacting some of the other local escorts and talking them about everyone raising their rates? I know it wouldn't pass SEC rules, but I doubt that you'd pass SEC rules anyway, lol.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Just short of moving...what other solution is there?

 

I'm looking at rentboy Denver and there are only 8 guys listed, many are charging between $125-180 an hour and below $200. Then there's 1 guy charging $140 for 2 hours! I'm not trying to cut anyone down...but Rentboy attracts a clientele that are willing to paying escort's rates around the $200-250+ mark. If I wanted to offer bargains, there are sites for that. Why go on the high paying site and sell yourself short? People don't go to the Infiniti or Lincoln dealership to spend $1,500 cash on a car. They can go to craigslist and buy that. If that's all the dealership had, they'd walk away. And that's exactly what they are doing. There's a guy charging $125 an hour for incall and it makes it bad because he happens to be the only person of color of the site which gives off an even worse impression. Others are charging $200 but there seems to be no competitve rates going on. I've felt pressured to lower my rates to be a little more competitive as well, but I can only do that locally.

 

It's obvious that when you have lots of lower rates, client's come to expect that. That's been a large factor living here because many times I'll get asked to meet for $150 and anything above it they'll pass and won't go for it. It's frustrating because you know it's because other guys have failed to demand better rates leaving the rest of us to have to accept less.

 

I've mentioned that I do kiss because many clients tell me alot of escorts don't kiss. So I try to play up on that in my ad. But sometimes, doesn't matter if you can bend over backwards and do kartwheels in the bed, they don't want to give more than X amount because they know everyone else comes on and charges pennies on the dollar. I've mentioned in the past there was a client who would not book me because I didn't go for $100. The guy he hired in the past was okay with 100 everytime. Well then we met and he ended up giving me $700 the first time we met because I was so good. You're telling me he couldn't afford 200?

 

I understand clients don't want to be ripped off and get their money's worth. And not every appointment is going to cost $200. But people have to understand when you start off low, it's very hard to raise your rates and get them. It's easier to drop your rates than raise them. It hurts all of us. I don't know what to do. Be competitive? Or be the Infiniti? How long will this car sit on the lot at this price?

 

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/03/15-infiniti-essence-press_580op.jpg

 

Just looked at your page on M4RN. Consider rewriting your copy to reflect more on who you ARE, as opposed to what you DO. Oh, and that pic of you from your side (#7) is HOT.

[maninsoma]

I just looked at the Rentboy listings in Denver. I do see that ONE guy is listed with lower than average rates, but it seems like a lot of the listings show $175-$200 for an hour outcall. That seems like a pretty reasonable rate to me for a city where the cost of living isn't as high as, say, San Francisco, Los Angeles, or New York.

 

Look at this comparison between Denver and San Francisco in terms of cost of living: http://www.areavibes.com/cost-of-living-calculator/ . If anything, a $200/hour outcall rate in Denver is equivalent to perhaps $300/hour in San Francisco. While some guys in San Francisco charge $300/hour (some even more -- particularly guys who are known from porn), many charge $200 or $250. I'm sure that salaries for other jobs are lower in Denver than in San Francisco as well.

 

The other thing I'd say about looking at someone at the low end of the scale is that unless you've actually engaged that person's services, you have no idea why they are offering themselves below market rate. It might be that he's good looking and enjoyable to be with and provides an exceptional experience. Or he might be a tweaker who cannot perform and is unappealing in person.

 

One solution, of course, is to move somewhere with higher prevailing rates with the understanding that your cost of living is going to be higher as well. Or be happy with the amount of business you get at your current rate, assuming you feel like you're attracting enough clients to make a good living.

[instudiocity]

Joey, the common components in every transaction are FAST, CHEAP and GOOD, but you can only have 2 of the three.

 

If you want it FAST and GOOD, it can't be CHEAP.

If you want it GOOD and CHEAP, it can't be FAST.

If you want it FAST and CHEAP, it can't be GOOD.

 

You obviously believe your a premium product in a thrift-store market. Getting the other guys to raise their rates isn't going to drive more business to the Premium product - Joey Bryant.

 

Work to differentiate yourself from the also rans by pointing out not only your activities like kissing, but also your quality. You could even address the price differential by pointing out the negatives of the $100-$150 guys. For Example: "While you can hire others for less than my rate, remember you're the only client I will see during our day. While others survive on volume, I enjoy sharing quality time with all my guys."

 

I'm more likely to hire a guy at a higher rate who uses terms like: "Not a clock-watcher." "I only see one client per day." "My mission is your satisfaction."

 

Using terms like these differentiate you from the guys who are "Blow and Go, $5." Use it to your benefit.

[seeker630]

The only thning you can control is what you charge & how you market yourself. I think ISC has some good suggestions about pointing out some of your superior aspects/service.

 

But some clients will ALWAYS go for cheaper, and some clients will let the little head rule their choice.

 

You have to figure out what rate is 'right' for you - i.e., brings in enough business and allows you to maintain your self-respect.

 

Also, if escorting is your sole or primary source of economy, remember that much of your competition is probably doing this short-term or for extra money, and that might account for lower rates. But this might be something you can include as a differentiator in your marketing - as well as referencing your reviews on Daddy's.

[jimboivyo]

If you think you deserve more, make sure you offer more

 

Those who charge big money in this business do it and don't look back. If you're offering a premium product then you should never worry about what others are doing or charging. Confidence is key

 

And btw infinity isn't really a luxe brand. I'd have made the comparison using BMW or Tesla

[Steven_Draker]

And btw infinity isn't really a luxe brand.

 

Speaking of cars, you can't go wrong with a black sleek world-class

 

http://www.extravaganzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Matte-black-Lamborghini-Murcielago-LP650-4-Roadster-1.jpg

[JoeyBryant]

Speaking of cars, you can't go wrong with a black sleek world-class[/color]

 

I can't fit in those cars...The Corvette was hard enough.

 

Joey, the common components in every transaction are FAST, CHEAP and GOOD, but you can only have 2 of the three.

 

If you want it FAST and GOOD, it can't be CHEAP.

If you want it GOOD and CHEAP, it can't be FAST.

If you want it FAST and CHEAP, it can't be GOOD.

 

For Example: "While you can hire others for less than my rate, remember you're the only client I will see during our day. While others survive on volume, I enjoy sharing quality time with all my guys."

 

I'm more likely to hire a guy at a higher rate who uses terms like: "Not a clock-watcher." "I only see one client per day." "My mission is your satisfaction."

 

Using terms like these differentiate you from the guys who are "Blow and Go, $5." Use it to your benefit.

 

Thats certainly a good concept to go by. #1 could be referred to airline travel. #2 could be referred to Miami's monorail. #3 could be referred to as a burger at McDonalds.

 

It's just hard to be in this kind of market. I can't really pinpoint whether guys are lowering their rates because of the way it's been or if they are just starting off that way. But from observation, there really isn't anyone advertising currently who was there around this time last year except 1 or 2 (me).

 

Seems like the local market has gone to hell in a hand basket. 95% the responses I've been receiving have been dead ends, with many just not showing or not responding or saying my rate is too much. When I'm out of town, they want to call and text but not set anything up when I get back. When I get back, they just drop off the face of the earth. I'm fixing to just turn off everything, namely emails and texts, and put escorting on the backburner until I can do something about it because despite all the innovations I can come up with, nothing really seems to be helping. I'm sure I'd have better leverage if I was elsewhere, but being I only have this area to work with there's really nothing I can do to make it better here. It's draining because I spend so much time 'figuring it out' that when a call comes, I'm so mentally exhausted from trying to 'figure it out' and then add to it by flaking out on me. I was supposed to have something at 11 yesterday morning and 10pm last night. Neither one panned out. There can't be 100 things I'm doing wrong to be causing them not to live up on their end of the agreement.

 

Chris...good suggestions. I like un-censored writing but some of the sites, you have to figure out what you can and can't say to not be edited.

 

Have you ever thought about contacting some of the other local escorts and talking them about everyone raising their rates? I know it wouldn't pass SEC rules, but I doubt that you'd pass SEC rules anyway, lol.

 

 

I have thought of that...but not sure if I'm willing to go into that territory. Men4rent and Rentboy and all these other sites need to be doing that. They are the ones collecting our money. I've told these sites in the past to establish some sort of 'average' or 'expected' rates to pay for clients to read. They don't want to do it, they don't want to listen. They want to simply be 'directories'. Then again, I can understand their not wanting to act like an agency and place anyone into a 'bracket' because like someone mentioned, we don't know why these guys are charging less than or more than everyone else.

 

I wonder if I do take the time to address raising rates with the other guys, how much would they take it in. Or would they say the same thing and mention that everytime they tried to quote a rate they were told they were too expensive?

[instudiocity]

I can't fit in those cars...

 

Please tell me you caught Steven's double entendré???

[JoeyBryant]

Please tell me you caught Steven's double entendré???

 

lol, no I didn't but I do now. Thanks Steven

[jimboivyo]

Speaking of cars, you can't go wrong with a black sleek world-class[/color]

 

http://www.extravaganzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Matte-black-Lamborghini-Murcielago-LP650-4-Roadster-1.jpg

 

I've owned lambos. They break down a lot. Never again

[JoeyBryant]

If you think you deserve more, make sure you offer more

 

Those who charge big money in this business do it and don't look back. If you're offering a premium product then you should never worry about what others are doing or charging. Confidence is key

 

And btw infinity isn't really a luxe brand. I'd have made the comparison using BMW or Tesla

 

I agree with your assessment 100%.

 

However...a car needn't be made in Germany to be considered a luxury brand....And it takes a lot for Japanese luxury to break down

 

 

...anyhow back to the thread.

[TopAz]

Joey,

May I ask what percentage of your clientele is local versus out-of-towners? I would be surprised if upscale business men visiting Denver would balk at paying $200+ for a well-reviewed, attractive escort who has successfully differentiated himself as "the best" in his market.

[instudiocity]

I've owned lambos. They break down a lot. Never again

 

You didn't get the joke...

[bigvalboy]

You didn't get the joke...

 

lol lol....

[bigvalboy]

I've owned lambos. They break down a lot. Never again

 

lol... Dear God man, pull yourself together, one never buys a 'Murcie' Roadster for reliability, that's why God gave us 'Rice Runners'.....(sigh)

[Frequentflier]

Joey. Is Denver a market where a lot of guys hire? As you mentioned, there aren't many guys on Rentboy and (in my opinion) not many to choose from on M4RN. So, either there aren't many gays in Denver, there are but they get all they want/need without hiring, guys aren't interested in escorting even at high prices (so they don't list) and have gainful employment already, guys are escorting but don't get clients off any of the usual sites or something else? Aren't there like 600,000 people in Denver? Just seems there should be more guys listed. Maybe there's not enough demand so guys that want to escort don't even try it in Denver?

[Guy Fawkes]

Hint: Your not McDonald's... The other two you can work...

[Steven_Draker]

I can't fit in those cars

 

Hey man, are you "bragging"??

http://caa.org.nz/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Winking-Smiley.jpg

[scottspearsxxx]

I am always willing to "wheel and deal" for clients. My basic rate is $150/hr, but discount if 3 hours so it is $350. Overnights are $600. Also if I have clients that use me over and over again, I treat them right and give them even further discounts. It's about about having good customer service.

[Nvr2Thick]

Seems like the local market has gone to hell in a hand basket. 95% the responses I've been receiving have been dead ends, with many just not showing or not responding or saying my rate is too much. When I'm out of town, they want to call and text but not set anything up when I get back. When I get back, they just drop off the face of the earth. I'm fixing to just turn off everything, namely emails and texts, and put escorting on the backburner until I can do something about it because despite all the innovations I can come up with, nothing really seems to be helping. I'm sure I'd have better leverage if I was elsewhere, but being I only have this area to work with there's really nothing I can do to make it better here. It's draining because I spend so much time 'figuring it out' that when a call comes, I'm so mentally exhausted from trying to 'figure it out' and then add to it by flaking out on me. I was supposed to have something at 11 yesterday morning and 10pm last night. Neither one panned out. There can't be 100 things I'm doing wrong to be causing them not to live up on their end of the agreement.

 

This is a chicken or the egg discussion. It's possible that other escorts have had this type of problem and have lowered their rate to pull in more consistent clients. You seem to believe that the escorts at lower rates have caused the problem. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a reaction.

 

You also need to consider that some guys are in this line of work for different reasons. Some have OK day jobs and enjoy both the small boost in income and the opportunity to hook up without trying too hard. I've met more than one escort who does it because he isn't all that picky when it comes to men, and who really enjoys taking in repressed, horny average guys and giving them a hot time. You're competing with a type of guy who isn't trying to establish a business with a high-profile image and fair market rate. Some of the best guys out there are just oversexed, built, hung guys who like the idea of getting into some anonymous sex. I remember one guy talking about how his dick would get hard and he'd get a bit of a charge whenever his phone would ring.

[JoeyBryant]

Joey. Is Denver a market where a lot of guys hire? As you mentioned, there aren't many guys on Rentboy and (in my opinion) not many to choose from on M4RN. So, either there aren't many gays in Denver, there are but they get all they want/need without hiring, guys aren't interested in escorting even at high prices (so they don't list) and have gainful employment already, guys are escorting but don't get clients off any of the usual sites or something else? Aren't there like 600,000 people in Denver? Just seems there should be more guys listed. Maybe there's not enough demand so guys that want to escort don't even try it in Denver?

 

Good question, and one that I can't give a complete answer on due to the variables.

 

There is an abundant amount of gays in this area. Is there a lot of guys here who hire? Depends on how you look at it. There are, but it's contigent on rates, many times clients set the rates in this town by declining anything higher they feel they can find it for. And it's limited to certain sites. Craigslist has actually given me more clients than rentboy. But I hate using that, and only sparingly. But presented correctly, many guys are open to hiring. I'm actually buddies with a cop who responded to my CL posting and he knows. He knows I'm not hurting anybody, and it helps to have that rapport in the unlikely event I found myself in a dangerous 'sitch'. I started in Miami during my freshman year of college '08. I didn't even know about the main sites Guys would hire from any gay website. They would hire in the bar. They would hire off the street (hell I did it ONCE, right around the corner from a gay bar and he was pretty hot). And I wasn't even looking to be paid for sex, we walked past each other, I needed money...he agreed.

 

Contrast that to Denver. I've experimented telling people I'm an escort and they act like I just told them I have a penis and vagina. They are inquisitive, not judgemental...but not supportive. That's why I was needing the Palm Springs weekend so badly. There's a decent amount of guys who hire, but if there were any more guys advertising than there is now, there would not be enough. I think everything you said sums it up because I honestly believe that even if I were available for $20 an hour, people would still have a hangup about paying for (or being paid) for sex.

 

Joey,

May I ask what percentage of your clientele is local versus out-of-towners? I would be surprised if upscale business men visiting Denver would balk at paying $200+ for a well-reviewed, attractive escort who has successfully differentiated himself as "the best" in his market.

 

Another good question...but I can't give a percentage because I'm not seeing that many people to really formulate an equation. Out of towner business has been down a bit as well, but $200 is acheivable when they do. I'd say most is probably local lately though.

 

I've looked on craigslist during the week to see whats going on, I see lots of guys posting about they are in a hotel and looking for some action. That's what escorts are for, but I can't recall the last time I've been asked to go downtown or to the airport for a new client. I just don't get it, why would someone want to waste time and chance it. The others are going to bathhouses and arcades for action. This is real life testimonial that I'm hearing.

 

Anyhow, I've been having a conversation with another escort here and I'm moving the moment I find a place that has a May 1st move in date. No need to keep trying to make stuff happen or change anything. I see it as I've accomplished what I needed here it's time to move on.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

I've met more than one escort who does it because he isn't all that picky when it comes to men, and who really enjoys taking in repressed, horny average guys and giving them a hot time. You're competing with a type of guy who isn't trying to establish a business with a high-profile image and fair market rate. Some of the best guys out there are just oversexed, built, hung guys who like the idea of getting into some anonymous sex. I remember one guy talking about how his dick would get hard and he'd get a bit of a charge whenever his phone would ring.

 

Wait a minute... was that you?