Etiquette question

[Edbern]

Kinda new to this and I have a question. I have been getting great massages from a guy on M4M over the last 6 months or so. Followed by happy ending. Before Xmas I saw that this masseur had some great reviews as an escort on this website the year before. I texted him to set up appt for a massage. He answered promptly as usual. I retested him asking if he escorts as well. He never responded. I retested but again without a response.

He has been in other cities the last two months and recently returned to his home city. I texted him twice today asking if he is free for a massage tomorrow, but he never responded.

My question is, do u think it was inappropriate to ask him if he escorts by text? Was I unintentionally insulting?

[+ beethoven]

No, you didn't insult him -- though HE may think you did. If you have a six month relationship, you certainly have the right to ask a simple question, and you should expect an answer. I have had a few masseurs go ballistic because I asked them if they would step it up a notch, and they accused me of calling them prostitutes. Some of these guys are real divas, and you may have found one.

I think that perhaps he wants to keep his escorting and masssage separate, and doesn't want people in your city to know that he escorts. I've had masseurs -- who I still have a great relationship with -- ask me to tone down my reviews, and not mention some of the things they do in our sessions. One, who I"ve been seeing for a few years now, asked me to delete my rave review because he was getting many phone calls asking him for some really weird stuff! Another, who I see regularly, told me that he'd appreciate recommendations, but "don't tell him everything we do together, because I don't do that for everyone."

You probably won't hear from this masseur again, which is too bad, since you enjoyed being with him. However, there are many fish in the sea!! Usually, I can be frank and candid with my masseurs -- I recently told one -- after a six-year relationship -- how disappointed I was with his last massage, and exactly why. He said that he was sorry, that he seemed to notice that I was upset, and explained what happened. We're good now, and he will be coming to New York soon, and I will see him.

If New York is your home, feel free to PM me for some suggestions.

[bigvalboy]

I can't imagine why he would be insulted, especially since he actually did escort at one point. I also have been asked to tone down reviews and was asked not to mention what occurs during massage sessions, That being said however, I have asked numerous masseurs if they were available in another capacity besides massages. Most of the time the answer was no, since massage was as far as they were willing to go. None of them seemed offended in the least. A few have suggested that they would escort for selected clients. I think that Beethoven is right, you might have run into a diva.

 

Personally, I am not one to beg. Asking more than twice I think is too much. If there isn't a response after two inquiries, then I think that you have your answer. If he won't even respond to a massage request, then I would just move on without giving it so much as a second thought.

[corndog]

Hiring masseurs is a tricky business. There is wide spectrum of different attitudes among masseurs about sensual/erotic services.

 

Reading between the lines, my first guess would be that the original poster's masseur is trying to put his escort past behind him, and is embarrassed that it has been discovered. I think that there are better ways to handle this situation than putting a repeat customer on "ignore," but perhaps there is another side to his story. We'll probably never know.

 

More generally, I think most masseurs fall into one of a few categories:

 

1) Purely "legitimate" therapeutic masseurs who take great pride in their training, and are offended by the idea of offering anything sexual whatsoever. Some of these guys are truly gifted masseurs, and I respect that they should be able to offer their talents without customers expecting sexual favors. I respect them, but sadly, they're usually not my first choice to hire.

 

2) Well-trained therapeutic masseurs who have worked hard to become skilled masseurs, but accept the market reality that in order to succeed in the business, they need to offer "a little extra," and therefore offer a "happy ending" even if it repulses them a little bit. I have a bit of pity for these guys, since I think they compromise themselves a little in order to get by.

 

3) Natural born healers, with varying levels of training, who have a natural gift for massage and compassionately connect with their clients. These rare guys seem to feed off of their clients' pleasure/energy and, I believe, offer a naturally sensual/erotic experience without any personal sacrifice. This is rare and "mind blowing."

 

4) "Body Rub" guys who are usually untrained and focus on the sensual aspects of massage. I think that the service these guys are selling is "escort lite." Their advertisements are generally vague but suggestive. Depending on the customer and their mood, they might provide a full escort experience or a perfunctory "rub and tug." However, they've carefully avoided promising anything specific, so the customer can't really complain that they didn't get what they hoped for. Very hit and miss.

 

5) Escorts advertising massage. Sometimes escorts advertise on massage sites to expand their market or reach a different client base, perhaps offering a more limited service at a reduce price. Massage skills vary.

 

Part of the thrill of hiring a masseur is trying to figure out which of these categories a guy is going to fall into. Finding #3 is like hunting unicorns. Several times, I've sought #1 and been quite surprised to end up with #4.

[+ poolboy48220]

Perhaps it was the texting? This is something I'd ask in person, rather than via text, probably at the end of good massage. Easier to gauge his reaction.

 

I have more experience with go-go boys than escorts, and have had many that I've seen "outside the club", but I always ask them in person/private, after a particularly good private dance, if they're willing to to that,

[bigvalboy]

Perhaps it was the texting? This is something I'd ask in person, rather than via text, probably at the end of good massage. Easier to gauge his reaction.

I have more experience with go-go boys than escorts, and have had many that I've seen "outside the club", but I always ask them in person/private, after a particularly good private dance, if they're willing to to that.

 

Excellent point. I re-read the original post and I think that you might be correct. In retrospect I think that it could have appeared that you were suddenly coming on too strong, and it might have made him uncomfortable. I am on the same page as Poolboy when it comes to hiring dancers for escort services, but only when I know them throughly and only in person. I would never do it via text. That indeed might be the problem. He might have gotten offended and thought that it was a bit aggressive.

[Lewis H]

Excellent point. I re-read the original post and I think that you might be correct. In retrospect I think that it could have appeared that you were suddenly coming on too strong, and it might have made him uncomfortable. I am on the same page as Poolboy when it comes to hiring dancers for escort services, but only when I know them throughly and only in person. I would never do it via text. That indeed might be the problem. He might have gotten offended and thought that it was a bit aggressive.

 

I've had that experience. There's a masseur who falls under category 3 from corndog's listing up there. He used to advertise as strictly legit, I've had legit massages from him that were excellent. After a session or two he started introducing more sensual elements but mentioned that he 'didn't do that with everyone so please don't tell' (which is a big fib as we all know). Anyhow, after a while I too asked him via email if he would escort and got no response, prompting me to wonder if I jeopardized my relationship with him as a masseur. I sent an apologetic email a few days after I didn't hear back from him and he responded quickly, but without addressing the issue at all. However, I've since heard back from numerous sources that the masseur in question has started to dabble more with escorting. He probably wasn't used to the idea at the time and slowly has come around to it, possibly because of the recession, but at the time I emailed, he wasn't ready. Bigvalboy's tactic of asking them in person might have been appropriate in my situation, as I suspect texts/emails feel like too much 'hard evidence' for some providers.

 

Off topic: I wonder if the recession has been bad for masseurs and escorts business? I personally have pulled back a lot on hiring.

[Diverdan]

I liked your rating, Corndog... and you are right, finding the masseur that fits number 3 is indeed mindblowing and rare, but when it happens it is wonderful. Unfortunately my experience is that the guys that I would classify as #3 do not live near where I do, so I am only able to see them when traveling. But when it happens, it is certainly well worth the wait!

[sfguy]

I don't think it was impolite to ask since he, in fact, did escort in the past.

 

As someone mentioned above, it may be that he wants to keep his massage business separate from any escorting, particularly if he has a massage license. If he does have a license, it may be the case that he wants to avoid a situation that could be perceived as him using his massage business as a cover for escorting since that could result in revocation of his license.

 

I know some LMT/CMTs that use different contact information for each business to keep them wholly separate. If he doesn't have a current ad up, he may just not escort anymore, as someone mentioned above, so he might be wary of massage clients seeking more.

[nate_sf]

I think it was fine to ask, but it is risky to try to advance a massage relationship to something more involved since you never really know how he'll react. I love getting massages and see several different guys, each with their own unique boundaries. Some of these guys I've seen for years and the boundaries have changed over time. But it is a gray area and you never quite know where your masseur's thoughts are with this, so the risk of things going badly is significant.

 

No harm asking, but be prepared for whatever might come next. If it's a masseur I really like and value his massage skills above all else, I tend to be very conservative in approaching anything beyond massage and leave it entirely to his lead.

[Steven_Draker]

insulted ... no

 

And yet, what matters is that he felt that way, hence the non-response. I haven't heard of that you should EXPECT an answer from an escort/masseur, but I've heard that people will sometimes give you a BS answer (what you WANT to hear). Probably the second poster is confusing a boyfriend relationship with an escort/masseur relationship.

 

It's interesting to see how different posters engage in WISHFUL THINKING and forget some mutual (basic) respect and understanding e.g. putting yourself in the masseur's shoes.

 

I'm not surprised that your masseur wouldn't get back to you. When you have established a six month working relationship with a masseur, it's rather hard to change the "rules" en route. The fact that you saw his escort ad, it's not a guarantee that he'd be available for you as escort, when you already have established a relationship with him as masseur. Does that make sense?

[luvsrubs]

Hiring masseurs is a tricky business. There is wide spectrum of different attitudes among masseurs about sensual/erotic services.

 

Reading between the lines, my first guess would be that the original poster's masseur is trying to put his escort past behind him, and is embarrassed that it has been discovered. I think that there are better ways to handle this situation than putting a repeat customer on "ignore," but perhaps there is another side to his story. We'll probably never know.

 

More generally, I think most masseurs fall into one of a few categories:

 

1) Purely "legitimate" therapeutic masseurs who take great pride in their training, and are offended by the idea of offering anything sexual whatsoever. Some of these guys are truly gifted masseurs, and I respect that they should be able to offer their talents without customers expecting sexual favors. I respect them, but sadly, they're usually not my first choice to hire.

 

2) Well-trained therapeutic masseurs who have worked hard to become skilled masseurs, but accept the market reality that in order to succeed in the business, they need to offer "a little extra," and therefore offer a "happy ending" even if it repulses them a little bit. I have a bit of pity for these guys, since I think they compromise themselves a little in order to get by.

 

3) Natural born healers, with varying levels of training, who have a natural gift for massage and compassionately connect with their clients. These rare guys seem to feed off of their clients' pleasure/energy and, I believe, offer a naturally sensual/erotic experience without any personal sacrifice. This is rare and "mind blowing."

 

4) "Body Rub" guys who are usually untrained and focus on the sensual aspects of massage. I think that the service these guys are selling is "escort lite." Their advertisements are generally vague but suggestive. Depending on the customer and their mood, they might provide a full escort experience or a perfunctory "rub and tug." However, they've carefully avoided promising anything specific, so the customer can't really complain that they didn't get what they hoped for. Very hit and miss.

 

5) Escorts advertising massage. Sometimes escorts advertise on massage sites to expand their market or reach a different client base, perhaps offering a more limited service at a reduce price. Massage skills vary.

 

Part of the thrill of hiring a masseur is trying to figure out which of these categories a guy is going to fall into. Finding #3 is like hunting unicorns. Several times, I've sought #1 and been quite surprised to end up with #4.

 

Wow. Thanks for this. I can't think of a better summing up of the massage business and the people who both seek out and work in this business. I have a few friends who know how much I enjoy going to masseurs, but just don't get it and also have so many preconceived ideas about the people who do them. Agreed that the "healers" are rare. I have only encountered two. But I have great admiration for them and the service they provide. But you've nailed the various categories of masseurs so succinctly that I'll use this description in future discussions. Thanks again.

[dfw2sfo]

I think I find I look for a combo of 2, 3 and 4. Definitely want someone who's into it and is skilled.