Client request for BB

[+ AceBanner]

A guy who has already bought flights and given a deposit asked to do BB. He apologized for the question, but then got a little upset when I declined by saying I apply the same standard to all my clients. Should I refund his money and cancel his appointment? Should I have answered in a different way?

[doitb4ugo]

I would say "yes" and "Yes" and "No"....While I am a poz guy and luv having BB with other poz guys....I would not wish HIV+ on anyone. Also as an escort you need to think about your health and the health of your clients..not to mention your integrity and honesty when dealing with others.....His request should have come way earlier in the conversation and I would suggest he did not just forget to mention it...dishonest at best.

[+ AceBanner]

He said he had been "drinking with friends" when he asked. Maybe it was the alcohol talking.

[+ deej]

And maybe he'll have a few before meeting you and spend the whole time begging. That's fine if you're up for handling the situation, but go into it with your eyes open.

[+ AceBanner]

Yep...that's why I wanted to get some feedback first. I'm pretty good at handling conflict, but thought some of you might have some insight I hadn't considered. . Eyes open is definitely correct!!

[Gar1eth]

So did you end up declining and refunding? To play Devil's Advocate- although I play safe- so it wouldn't come up with me- what if he had asked- and when you said no- he said ok that's fine with me too. Would you have declined him too?

 

Gman

[+ AceBanner]

No, the question doesn't bother me at all. Hell, I love BB as much as the next guy, so I never fault somebody for asking. Maybe I was just a little too emphatic. I know some guys use that question as a test, so I try to be very clear.

 

I haven't declined yet.

Ace

 

So did you end up declining and refunding? To play Devil's Advocate- although I play safe- so it wouldn't come up with me- what if he had asked- and when you said no- he said ok that's fine with me too. Would you have declined him too?

 

Gman

[doitb4ugo]

I believe this client thought his money would do the convincing....so he gave you a taste of it before broaching the subject. Just how I read it....

[Gar1eth]

Another related question but not specifically for Ace. In the best case scenario, this guy is negative and he trusts that Ace is negative, so if everyone were 100% assured - barebacking wouldn't be a problem. Of course that's not a real world situation due to the window period.

 

On the other hand- what if we suppose that this guy is positive- and yes we should always assume strangers are positive- but let's just say in this case- we assume even more strongly that the guy barebacks because he is already positive- so feels he has nothing to loose. Do you perform unprotected fellatio on him? Does the answer change if you have some mild gum disease and inflammation?

 

Gman

 

PS While I only started having sex in the 'condom' era, in my history I must admit to occasionally having non protected sex. Luckily not very often- not recently-and I'm a top- and thank Providence I get tested every 3 months and I'm still negative. And I'll admit it feels nice. But on the whole- assuming I can get hard in a condom- which at my age and health is not always a given- but even so in general I prefer using protection because I hate the occasions when someone isn't totally clean and I ended up getting - well not to put too fine a point on it-CRAP on my tallywacker.

 

Gman

[leigh.bess.toad]

Ace -- first I would listen and read the words of Doit very carefully. As someone who has traveled that road, you should weigh them heavily. I have seen the reaction of many guys here who won't hire guys who are known to have barebacked, either as escorts or in porn (even if years have gone by and countless tests have been passed). In fact, even raising the question might raise that flag with some clients -- clients who want to bareback who will now try to contact you more on the chance you might or guys who might be interested in you now but now might be leery in case you do. I am just telling you what I have seen in my time here in how some guys react. If you want to talk about it further, you know how to get in touch with me.

[nate_sf]

From what I'm experiencing and hearing from other escorts, the BB question is coming up a LOT nowadays so this will happen again and again. I think your response is good, but in my experience I've found it's best to just say "sorry, I don't bareback" and leave it at that. For whatever reason, adding any more explanation seems to fall flat. I don't know why, but I've noticed this. I've tried many variations of this conversation and in the end just the simple "sorry, I don't bareback" is most effective without further elaboration.

 

Whether to cancel depends on whether you think this is a deal-breaker, or whether there are other things he's interested in that would make up for it. I have one regular client who several times asked to bareback, but what he is really into is fisting so in the end not barebacking was not a deal-breaker. He asked, I answered, and we then just focused on what he's really more into anyway. On the other hand, I had a client for a massage who wanted me to fuck him bareback and come inside him next time we got together, and it was clear this was a big deal for him. He even emailed me after the appointment and told me it would be OK because he was taking PrEP, and besides didn't I say I was neg so what's the big deal? With that guy, it was clearly a deal-breaker.

 

This may be one for you to use your intuition. He got kind of upset but then backpedaled. He knows where you stand. Do you get the sense he'll drop it and you'll be able to have a good time otherwise, or will it be a deal-breaker?

[Frequentflier]

A guy who has already bought flights and given a deposit asked to do BB. He apologized for the question, but then got a little upset when I declined by saying I apply the same standard to all my clients. Should I refund his money and cancel his appointment? Should I have answered in a different way?

 

Just my opinions:

1. The fact that the client brings the question up before you arrive tells me that he knows the topic is a big one that should be discussed up front and therefore he should have asked you before finalizing the weekend with you. He chose not to.

2. If you haven't turned down any other appointments (and therefore you're not out any income) it would be nice of you to refund what you can (airfare might not be refundable). If you've turned down other sources of income, I'd tell him that and retain the deposit up to the amount of money you lost. If you want to be really nice you could wait until after the weekend in question passes and whatever income you lost withheld from the deposit.

3. If the client says "never mind, come anyway and we'll play safe", I wouldn't go. You only have a deposit, I don't think he's playing straight and he might not pay you the balance for a weekend of your time when you get there.

4. Lastly, I suggest you cover this in a phone conversation. Usually they go better than emails.

[Frequentflier]

No, the question doesn't bother me at all. Hell, I love BB as much as the next guy, so I never fault somebody for asking. Maybe I was just a little too emphatic. Ace

 

This is a brain tickler.

 

You seem like a nice guy, please don't BB with anyone The whole "live long and prosper" thing.

 

If you've decided that with clients there will never be BB, would it be good to put that in the M4RN ad since unlike Rentboy that topic doesn't have its own field? You don't want that activity with someone anyway and guys who aren't into it might view a "no BB" reference as a good thing.

[jimboivyo]

if you have to ask...

[+ AceBanner]

Frequentflier, that's a good suggestion about putting it in the ad on M4RN. I'll do that.

I've talked to the guy now and it's definitely not a deal-breaker for him. I think he got drunk with some buddies and let his imagination get away from him. I've asked him not to drink heavily before the appointment and he has agreed

[Nvr2Thick]

I think he got drunk with some buddies and let his imagination get away from him. I've asked him not to drink heavily before the appointment and he has agreed

 

It's also possible that the excuse that he got drunk with his buddies is his way of trying to undo the question and salvage the meeting. He may be afraid that you disapprove and that you'll back out, so he created the drinking story to make it seem like barebacking isn't his norm and isn't what he really wanted. It's great that you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. You'll have to get there to find out whether he respects your limits. I hope that he has great time with you, and you with him.

[JoeyBryant]

If you've decided that with clients there will never be BB, would it be good to put that in the M4RN ad since unlike Rentboy that topic doesn't have its own field? You don't want that activity with someone anyway and guys who aren't into it might view a "no BB" reference as a good thing.

 

BB might be too explicit of content for men4rent. Sex is also not allowed. Nor is your rate. Just have to say, "play safe". I've had the word play get taken out at times too. God help us.

 

I prefer using protection because I hate the occasions when someone isn't totally clean and I ended up getting - well not to put too fine a point on it-CRAP on my tallywacker.

 

Gman

 

Which can lead to urinary tract infections, the more harmless of them all curable by cranberry juice...but nonetheless, painful.

 

3. If the client says "never mind, come anyway and we'll play safe", I wouldn't go. You only have a deposit, I don't think he's playing straight and he might not pay you the balance for a weekend of your time when you get there.

 

Well, I had people change their minds and go forward with the appt. anyway. But anal was left out completely.

[Frequentflier]

Frequentflier, that's a good suggestion about putting it in the ad on M4RN. I'll do that.

I've talked to the guy now and it's definitely not a deal-breaker for him. I think he got drunk with some buddies and let his imagination get away from him. I've asked him not to drink heavily before the appointment and he has agreed

 

Sounds like your back on track. Hope you and your client have a great time and maybe there are repeats in the future for the two of you. I know from a client's perspective that weekends are a big commitment and I am nervous before every appointment but especially weekends where a guy is traveling in (and I know weekends are a big commitment for the companions too). So I am guessing he wants it to be a success and will make reasonable efforts so it is. He sounds sincere.

[JoeyBryant]

From what I'm experiencing and hearing from other escorts, the BB question is coming up a LOT nowadays so this will happen again and again.

 

It's all the bareback porn going on out there. And men4rent is probably pro-bareback by advertising a banner saying BAREBACK at the top.

[LeeMann]

It's all the bareback porn going on out there. And men4rent is probably pro-bareback by advertising a banner saying BAREBACK at the top.

 

New to the forum and to escorting -

 

Since I currently work in a bathhouse and previously as a bartender, I can safely say that empirical evidence is showing the preponderance of porn is now headed to (or at) BB. And casual sex is significantly BB between not just gay men, but Bi and "straight" men as well. OTOH, we still do have a lot of condoms used each day & night...

 

As noted, I'm new to escorting, but I know the question is going to come up... As is the question of "clean/negative." And to that, almost every escort I've ever personally known is both positive, and hiding it if possible.

[Decatur Guy]

Sounds like you handled it well. The bothersome part is how this came up after a lot of the arrangements had been made.

 

Before I ever commit to an appointment, I make sure the escort knows (and I ask twice) that he'll be wearing a condom if he fucks me and that he can perform with one. I haven't hired a bottom guy yet, but there will be the same understanding when I do that.

 

I've never had an issue with that, but if it were to ever be a problem, I simply wouldn't make the appointment.

[Steven_Draker]

I'm wondering if there was some initial complication at the time of booking, what meeting this client in person would be? Personally, I'm not buying the "I got drunk with friends" excuse. Not willing to sound like a mood killer, Ace would better go to that meeting prepared with his mind wide open.

[Phil_musc]

Words of wisdom and the voice of experience, I think.

[+ AceBanner]

He still says he's excited about the meeting, so we'll see if he tries to rip off the condom mid stroke. I'll keep everybody posted. It's been a good exchange and very thought-provoking.

[leigh.bess.toad]

He still says he's excited about the meeting, so we'll see if he tries to rip off the condom mid stroke. I'll keep everybody posted. It's been a good exchange and very thought-provoking.

 

Maybe have his hands bound above his head while fucking him??? He might even enjoy it.

 

Just a thought.