It's been the last straw for me, Is camming the next best thing?

[JoeyBryant]

I've had it with escorting at this point and especially traveling to do it. I've put so much effort and energy into this over the years only to not be getting back what I'm putting out.

 

This last straw has been my most recent visit to Arizona. It's been planned now for over a month. Steady contact prior to arrival. My 1st day, client seems all for it right up until 10 minutes prior citing a stomach problem. He emailed me and even chatted over the phone prior. Just out of the blue cancels. All the while asking me couple days prior when I was going to be in the area and wanting to move forward with it.

 

Emails also keep going unanswered suddenly. People just not committing to anything. I have a whole email folder full of emails from people in Arizona. I've tried to confirm twice over with all of them and only 1 has responded back and so far only 1 client out the whole trip. Someone called me this morning discussing him flying in tomorrow and booking, I call this afternoon just to confirm so I won't waste anymore time because he sounded F.O.S. by asking me a bunch of info that was already on my ad. He hangs up on me and then texts a few moments later saying something came up and can't make it tomorrow.

 

I'm just done with this for now. I don't want to do this anymore. I already felt I wanted to get out of it for some months now, but I was then considering perhaps doing it while traveling only. But I don't even want to do that! I cannot trust 80% of new clients who contact me nowadays. They just lie, lie, lie. One can argue that all businesses deal with the same thing, but for an individual it's become more than I can bear. I did all the work coming out to Arizona and wasting my hard earned money on people who KNOW they weren't going to book in the first place. But waited until I got ALL the way here to flake out. That's malicious. I'd of rather stayed home minus all the stress and headache instead. Then again, the responses back home in Denver have only been mildly better. Same shit. People emailing and then bailing. The 1 time emailer syndrome seems to be running rampant in more places than 1.

 

And I'm just going to be put it out there myself and say the truth like it like it is, whether people want to hear it or not. You get your hopes high up once a client does come thru, only to meet them and think what have I gotten myself into? It's just stupid! It's stupid to get mad about clients not showing up when most of them are already light years away from your type to begin with. But you go thru anyway cheerfully, and then some of them want to try and underpay, or get as much in ways of discounts as it is. Hell, you're mad if they don't show and then it's crass when they do show LOL. They want you to feel bad by hanging out bait making you think they want your business, only to pull it back from under you. Yet in reality if they weren't paying I wouldn't even go down that route to begin with.

 

In the meantime, until I can find a better regular job...I'm considering doing camming. I just need to know if it's even mildly lucrative. I've been offered gigs already by VividMen, and there's a host of other websites as well to start up on. I'm ready, I just want to leave all this behind me. It's stopped being worth it anymore. I've done everything in my power to make things better, there's really not anything else left to do except either relocate or switch professions.

[jjkrkwood]

Joey your post, and your feelings come as NO surprise, as for me, most of your recent posts have displayed a person that was truly UNHAPPY with his work, although you tried valiantly to convince us that was not the case. Next time around, find something you love to do, and that you are passionate about. You only pass thru this life once, and you should do it Happy ! Learn to take disappointments in your stride, and try to make the best out of bad situations. Things dont always go as you expect they will, but it shouldnt put you into a tailspin.

 

Best of Luck !

[orbital sander]

I agree with JJ, things do not always go the way you expect, and if it breaks you up then you should move on.

 

So many of your posts have been so unhappy, you seem to have very bad luck in this business compared to others, perhaps you are in the wrong place and doing the wrong thing.

 

I have owned my business for over 24 years now, and I have seen crazy things with some clients, but I found my groove years ago and learned to find who and what I needed to carry on. I never turned back.

 

Good luck, it would be great to hear some positive things from you.

[JoeyBryant]

It's not so much that I have always been unhappy with the work. But I am unhappy with how things have evolved with this. It's a by-product of whats going on currently that is making me feel the way I do. Mind you, I am not suggesting I don't have success or I'm only having bad luck. Fuck what other escorts don't say., You don't know the full story until you ask them. Not everyone is going to volunteer information. I'm just stating what I don't feel like doing anymore...and that's going out of my way for people who know in their heart of hearts that all they are doing is bullshitting a provider for their own jollies. At this point, I've gotten what I needed out the business, it's time to move on to something different.

 

Trust me, I would not have been making this thread had people been doing what the fuck they said they were going to do. I didn't call or email them. They did. I feel clients need to start taking responsibility for their actions (or rather, lack thereof) rather than brush it off. Either they need to figure out their finances prior to getting ahold of me, or figure out who they choose to see, their schedules whatever..before contacting me. It boils my blood to be going out of town away from my comfy abode and people not following thru on their commitments. You have NO IDEA how frustrating it is. The only way I would be willing to stay in this is to ask every person who ever books me out of town or for something in advance to give up a deposit. That's the only way. And if not? Screw em! I'm not going any fucking where.

 

Want to hear something positive? Me letting go of this bullcrap. That's a very positive action on my part. Now, either answer the question...or not. At this point I'm way past what one has felt all along about things or what I need to feel like. Just answer the question, if you don't know please refrain.

[JoeyBryant]

Yet another frustrating situation that compels me to get out of this:

 

2 years ago had a client book me for an overnight and paid my rate for the time as I drove out to him. However, he messaged me out the blue earlier this week TO MY AD ON MEN4RENT thinking that since I'm traveling thru, that I'd be willing to just sleep over for free. I didn't find out until I gave him my rate and he mentioned he couldn't do it and gave an excuse. When I counter-offered a lower rate for a lesser amount of time, he couldn't do that either and didn't even offer anything else but said I'm welcome to stay over.

 

Like you've got to be kidding me? This is a joke right? So you think you're going to get a freebie out of me? The audacity of some people. Its stifling. What client in their right mind would even try something like that on? I'm convinced clients have gone bananas...I need to get away from it for awhile until things improve. I'm going to end up with high blood pressure and in anger management if I don't. The aggravation has simply outweighed the benefits.

[Walker1]

It's not so much that I have always been unhappy with the work. But I am unhappy with how things have evolved with this. It's a by-product of whats going on currently that is making me feel the way I do. Mind you, I am not suggesting I don't have success or I'm only having bad luck. Fuck what other escorts don't say., You don't know the full story until you ask them. Not everyone is going to volunteer information. I'm just stating what I don't feel like doing anymore...and that's going out of my way for people who know in their heart of hearts that all they are doing is bullshitting a provider for their own jollies. At this point, I've gotten what I needed out the business, it's time to move on to something different.

 

Trust me, I would not have been making this thread had people been doing what the fuck they said they were going to do. I didn't call or email them. They did. I feel clients need to start taking responsibility for their actions (or rather, lack thereof) rather than brush it off. Either they need to figure out their finances prior to getting ahold of me, or figure out who they choose to see, their schedules whatever..before contacting me. It boils my blood to be going out of town away from my comfy abode and people not following thru on their commitments. You have NO IDEA how frustrating it is.

.

 

It ain't gonna change if you change professions. The world ain't fair and it never will be. Best to adjust and detach yourself and learn to chill.

[jgoo]

In the meantime, until I can find a better regular job...I'm considering doing camming. I just need to know if it's even mildly lucrative. I've been offered gigs already by VividMen, and there's a host of other websites as well to start up on. I'm ready, I just want to leave all this behind me. It's stopped being worth it anymore. I've done everything in my power to make things better, there's really not anything else left to do except either relocate or switch professions.

 

No direct experience other than I have used one of those cam websites before for awhile maybe 10 years or so ago (I was living in a relatively remote part of the world at the time and other than porn this was my only way for having some erotic fun). The one I used, which I believe is typical is an open chat room where for free you saw the guy, usually in his underwear, and you could chat with him (some performers were more chatty than others). Then you could take them "private" and pay for that time with them (which was pretty expensive as I recall). Others can "voyeur" for a reduced rate. So I assume that is pretty much what you are thinking about doing.

 

What I have noticed during my time there is that there is a great deal of talk from guys but only a small fraction (even for the best performers) take someone into a private show. Almost every guy tries to get the performer to show something more in the free view. It seems to me that it can get quite annoying answering the same questions all the time but a good performer, in my view, tries to interact as much as possible and deals with the obnoxious people in a way that doesn't put others off. A good performer is the ultimate tease...and I imagine parallels what a stripper at a club has to be good at. The guys that just lay there and show their body don't seem to go into privates much, even though they may be very hot. I imagine that some guys can do pretty well financially at it while others not so much, it all depends on so many factors. If a guy has the right personality, approach and of course the body on there, I believe someone could do pretty well. To make good money seems like a lot of effort, with very long times of boredom. Is it enough to make a living? No idea but I doubt it.

 

Like escorting to some extent, a new guy may get a surge of people viewing and paying initially. Then it could start to fall off after he gets "old" and new fresh meat comes on. And if you look at those sites there are tons of guys of all types and the rotation is almost non-stop. So I think you may end up disappointed in the long run.

 

As an aside, I actually became "friends" with one performer (non sexual friends) and we have stayed in touch on a very regular basis by skype for the past ten years. We even met for a vacation together a couple years ago. He has long since left the site, finished school and started a regular job. He actually started and ran a studio for a period of time where he hired performers to be on the site and he said he did pretty well at that for his needs but it was a great deal of work.

[bigvalboy]

It ain't gonna change if you change professions. The world ain't fair and it never will be. Best to adjust and detach yourself and learn to chill.

 

 

 

Camming certainly is an option. I know two guys that do it. I have never asked how lucrative it was, I don't like prying into peoples life, but I do know that it appears worth the trouble. They seem to have a fairly substantial cash flow, and I have never heard either one ever complain about anything in regards to camming.

 

I think that you have a great look, you seem very bright, quick on your feet, and able to say what many guys doing that sort of thing would want to hear. Certainly it would eliminate a lot of the problems with the flakes that you have been dealing with lately. But is this something that you think that you would truly love to do, or something to do until you find a real passion for another profession?

 

It has been said, if you do something that you truly love and enjoy, then you will be successful at it. If escorting has become, and these are Joey's words, "frustrating".."it boils my blood".."It's time to move on to something different"...I am unhappy how things have evolved with this"...then perhaps changing professions will indeed make things better in his life.

 

For all the frustration that you see in the words that Joey has written here and the many posts were he has discussed at great length problems with a real lack of honoring commitments from some of his clients, I personally get the sense that Joey is certainly no ordinary young man. I see someone that I feel is very bright indeed, far more than most and probably could do whatever he wanted to do if he set his mind to it. He has been attacked here many many times, unfairly I think. He is far more intuitive into the working minds of clients than most escorts that post here. He most often speaks the real truth, and has little patience for 'sugar coating' things. That rubs many clients the wrong way sometimes, but the truth is the truth, and for those that refuse to look at themselves honestly, and admit that not all, but many of us treat escorts horribly sometimes, then we have no business hiring. I have several friends that treat escorts like a bag of garbage and think that it is funny.

 

Someone once told me in regards to my life, "BVB, if you don't like the story, turn the page." Perhaps it is time for Joey to turn that page and start a new chapter in his life. Joey will be fine, and I personally believe that perhaps it will change for the better, if he changes professions. Is the world fair, often not, but I know many people that see life as the "glass half full, not half empty" and seem to find joy and peace and laughter everyday in their life.

[robberbaron4u]

"Personal Assistant". Lucca Rugge, who returned to escorting at the age of 45+, has "hooked" a well-to-do 85 year old in California, and, he has retired from the business with the title of "personal assistant" to that gentleman with salary and benefits which reflect his "abilities", inclusive of residency in a "smart" condominium unit "on the course" . Too, being that there is very little business to address as assistant, he can devote himself to the pursuit of golf and gambling and staying "on top of his game".

[Boner]

Joey - if escort clients are flipping your wig - wait until you get a cam-room, full of hundreds of anonymous horny men, talking to you as if you were an inanimate-object. Something tells me that's not going to be your ballywick. Either.

[jjkrkwood]

"Personal Assistant". Lucca Rugge, who returned to escorting at the age of 45+, has "hooked" a well-to-do 85 year old in California, and, he has retired from the business with the title of "personal assistant" to that gentleman with salary and benefits which reflect his "abilities", inclusive of residency in a "smart" condominium unit "on the course" . Too, being that there is very little business to address as assistant, he can devote himself to the pursuit of golf and gambling and staying "on top of his game".

 

robber, am I too old to be YOUR "Personal Assistant".??? I can organize your fashion, and keep your journals, and "fluff" you up when you are in the mood (with or without "teeth").

Think about it... my rate is reasonable, I just require fresh "Depends", and dont take up alot of space... I am a good listener, and VERY loyal, and LOVE to travel.... Think about it... I cant have my belongings packed in shopping bags and ready to go at a moments notice ! I hereby submit my Resume'.....

[jjkrkwood]

Joey - if escort clients are flipping your wig - wait until you get a cam-room, full of hundreds of anonymous horny men, talking to you as if you were an inanimate-object. Something tells me that's not going to be your ballywick. Either.

 

Joey will just tell em to "SHUT UP" and fuck off. and that will be that !

[seeker630]

Joey, I think you need to spend some time watching the cams and the interactions. If what jgoo relates is typical, do you think you have the patience to put up with people essentially trying to get as much as they can from you for the least amount of money?

[robberbaron4u]

Perhaps Berlin and Paris would be a better market for you. Some thirty years ago I had the acquaintance of Joe Coleman, a "spectacular" young black man out of Ohio. In my honesty, I admit the man to have been possessed of a physical beauty and presence that took one's breath away. He languished in the Atlanta and Ft Lauderdale markets, but, having taken the prudent advice of a friend, he relocated overseas to work the London-Paris-Berlin circuit. As Josephe-Alexandre, a "homme d'coleur", he enjoyed popularity, indeed, celebrity. Sadly, he washed out to sea at Cannes in on a tide of cocaine in the late 1980s. . .

[Boner]

I love a good story that ends on a high-note.

[robberbaron4u]

Or, in this particular case, "high-tide". . .

[maxwellissmart]

I just want to know if there are any "camming" forums on this board.

 

No? Good.

 

See ya, Joey.

[+ FreshFluff]

Joey will just tell em to "SHUT UP" and fuck off. and that will be that !

 

That makes me wonder: Joey, do you have a dominant side? Ethically, I have some issues with the "cash rape" stuff, but there are a lot of guys doing it successfully. Check out niteflirt.com to see how the guys advertise themselves.

[nate_sf]

Hey Joey,

 

First, to answer your question about the cams, jgoo’s assessment is pretty accurate. I’ve done the cams from time to time and while it can be entertaining, it is (at least in my experience) not lucrative. On the occasions that I do cam I do it because I find it fun and I enjoy the chatting, but the money is negligible. I’ll do it because I’m bored or I am feeling exhibitionistic. It is indeed difficult to get someone to go private, and once you do they often want you to cum as quickly as possible. Then once you’ve shot your load you don’t have that to offer to the next guy, at least for a while. You split your income with the website so in the end the money is paltry, and then they send you a 1099 so the income is taxable. Stalking is also more of a problem than with escorting, so don’t give out your personal details to anyone (jgoo’s experience an exception).

 

So here are some thoughts:

 

1. The issues you describe are not unique to you. Other guys here on the board have hinted or outright discussed problems with cancellations, misrepresentations, etc. Goes with the territory. Detach yourself from those bad experiences, they are not about you – instead focus on the good experiences and clients.

 

2. Arizona for whatever reason is a very difficult place to tour. I’ve had the exact same experience as you had, including (what sounds like) the very same client with the stomach problem. Once he cancelled saying he had a stomach problem, the next time he said a friend had a last-minute emergency and he had to give his friend the money he was saving for our appointment. There are lots of great guys in AZ, including some on this board, but for whatever reason what I’ve experienced and heard from others is that it is more challenging to work as an escort than other places. On the plus side, there seem to be lots of hot horny guys at ASU who like older guys (like me) so hooking up can surprisingly easy and fun.

 

So here are some suggestions:

 

A. I agree with the others, time to try something else out. Take a break from escorting, perhaps long-term or permanently. Pull your ads for a month or more to give yourself a break. I did this myself last month. Your good clients may still call, the frustrating ones won’t.

 

B. Get a part-time job that gives you something else to focus on, so when an escort client flakes you (and they will) it will still be annoying but won’t be such a big deal.

 

C. Become a dom! FreshFluff is onto something here perhaps. Take your aggressive tendencies and channel them towards someone who will find it a turn-on. BUT it requires training, patience, and boundaries – you’re not beating people up, and you gotta know and respect limits. Watch some domination videos and pay careful attention to how both the dom and the sub manage the situation and keep boundaries. But you may have the personality for it, and there is a big market for domination.

 

Sorry this is such a long response but hopefully you or others will find some of it useful, particularly since what you are describing is not unique to you.

[Guest countryboywny]

Hey Joey,

 

First, to answer your question about the cams, jgoo’s assessment is pretty accurate. I’ve done the cams from time to time and while it can be entertaining, it is (at least in my experience) not lucrative. On the occasions that I do cam I do it because I find it fun and I enjoy the chatting, but the money is negligible. I’ll do it because I’m bored or I am feeling exhibitionistic. It is indeed difficult to get someone to go private, and once you do they often want you to cum as quickly as possible. Then once you’ve shot your load you don’t have that to offer to the next guy, at least for a while. You split your income with the website so in the end the money is paltry, and then they send you a 1099 so the income is taxable. Stalking is also more of a problem than with escorting, so don’t give out your personal details to anyone (jgoo’s experience an exception).

 

So here are some thoughts:

 

1. The issues you describe are not unique to you. Other guys here on the board have hinted or outright discussed problems with cancellations, misrepresentations, etc. Goes with the territory. Detach yourself from those bad experiences, they are not about you – instead focus on the good experiences and clients.

 

2. Arizona for whatever reason is a very difficult place to tour. I’ve had the exact same experience as you had, including (what sounds like) the very same client with the stomach problem. Once he cancelled saying he had a stomach problem, the next time he said a friend had a last-minute emergency and he had to give his friend the money he was saving for our appointment. There are lots of great guys in AZ, including some on this board, but for whatever reason what I’ve experienced and heard from others is that it is more challenging to work as an escort than other places. On the plus side, there seem to be lots of hot horny guys at ASU who like older guys (like me) so hooking up can surprisingly easy and fun.

 

So here are some suggestions:

 

A. I agree with the others, time to try something else out. Take a break from escorting, perhaps long-term or permanently. Pull your ads for a month or more to give yourself a break. I did this myself last month. Your good clients may still call, the frustrating ones won’t.

 

B. Get a part-time job that gives you something else to focus on, so when an escort client flakes you (and they will) it will still be annoying but won’t be such a big deal.

 

C. Become a dom! FreshFluff is onto something here perhaps. Take your aggressive tendencies and channel them towards someone who will find it a turn-on. BUT it requires training, patience, and boundaries – you’re not beating people up, and you gotta know and respect limits. Watch some domination videos and pay careful attention to how both the dom and the sub manage the situation and keep boundaries. But you may have the personality for it, and there is a big market for domination.

 

Sorry this is such a long response but hopefully you or others will find some of it useful, particularly since what you are describing is not unique to you.

 

What a thoughtful, classy response, Nate! Good on you.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

Joey, I don't have any good advice to add to what's been said here. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience in AZ.

I didn't know Arizona had a bad reputation, but a history of this kind of disrespect would explain the scarcity of local providers. I wish you all success!

 

--- VHC in Phoenix

[Dave]

Gotta love that Nate! :o

hi Nate i miss you!

 

Hey Joey,

 

First, to answer your question about the cams, jgoo’s assessment is pretty accurate. I’ve done the cams from time to time and while it can be entertaining, it is (at least in my experience) not lucrative. On the occasions that I do cam I do it because I find it fun and I enjoy the chatting, but the money is negligible. I’ll do it because I’m bored or I am feeling exhibitionistic. It is indeed difficult to get someone to go private, and once you do they often want you to cum as quickly as possible. Then once you’ve shot your load you don’t have that to offer to the next guy, at least for a while. You split your income with the website so in the end the money is paltry, and then they send you a 1099 so the income is taxable. Stalking is also more of a problem than with escorting, so don’t give out your personal details to anyone (jgoo’s experience an exception).

 

So here are some thoughts:

 

1. The issues you describe are not unique to you. Other guys here on the board have hinted or outright discussed problems with cancellations, misrepresentations, etc. Goes with the territory. Detach yourself from those bad experiences, they are not about you – instead focus on the good experiences and clients.

 

2. Arizona for whatever reason is a very difficult place to tour. I’ve had the exact same experience as you had, including (what sounds like) the very same client with the stomach problem. Once he cancelled saying he had a stomach problem, the next time he said a friend had a last-minute emergency and he had to give his friend the money he was saving for our appointment. There are lots of great guys in AZ, including some on this board, but for whatever reason what I’ve experienced and heard from others is that it is more challenging to work as an escort than other places. On the plus side, there seem to be lots of hot horny guys at ASU who like older guys (like me) so hooking up can surprisingly easy and fun.

 

So here are some suggestions:

 

A. I agree with the others, time to try something else out. Take a break from escorting, perhaps long-term or permanently. Pull your ads for a month or more to give yourself a break. I did this myself last month. Your good clients may still call, the frustrating ones won’t.

 

B. Get a part-time job that gives you something else to focus on, so when an escort client flakes you (and they will) it will still be annoying but won’t be such a big deal.

 

C. Become a dom! FreshFluff is onto something here perhaps. Take your aggressive tendencies and channel them towards someone who will find it a turn-on. BUT it requires training, patience, and boundaries – you’re not beating people up, and you gotta know and respect limits. Watch some domination videos and pay careful attention to how both the dom and the sub manage the situation and keep boundaries. But you may have the personality for it, and there is a big market for domination.

 

Sorry this is such a long response but hopefully you or others will find some of it useful, particularly since what you are describing is not unique to you.

[robberbaron4u]

Forget "camming" and take a lesson from Lucca Rugge. Following the death of his "significant other" and his discovery that there was no money coming to him and the "country place" was mortgaged to the hilt, Lucca returned to escorting at the age of 47. Keeping a roof over his head and food on the table was difficult at $100 a trick with booking few and far between. Nonetheless, he was yet a good-looking man, and, he began to farm the upscale on-line dating services for gentlemen of means worthy of his attentions. To cut to the chase, he "hooked up" with an 80 year old "professional" man "out West", and, the resultant opportunity proved a situation in which he has never been happier: life with a new sugar daddy in an upscale condo on a golf course in Palm Springs. Go for it, Joey!

[Terpmaniac]

OK let me clear, I am in no way saying all that the original poster has experienced is not true, I am sure it is. But take it from someone who has hired his fair share of masseurs/ecorts you can find a lot of unprofessionalism and downright craziness on the other side as well. I have been stood up, had emails ignored, sessions cancelled, phone calls blocked,had one guy fall asleep in the middle of a session no lie and of course lets not forget the all too common "bait and switch" routine(my favorite in his ad he was white about 6ftbut when I showed up he was hispanic and about 5'7really)? Granted the vast majority of my experiences have been good ones and truth be told I am a damn good client and tons of fun:) But some of the guys I have met leave me shaking my head saying "why are you in the buisness you are in..why God, why?

 

Rant over

 

Terp

[JoeyBryant]

An update:

 

Haven't gotten to go thru all the replies here since prior to the vacation, but I have decided to hold off on the camming and am still continuing.

 

Things can be so up and down in this business and it certainly tests the very core of your patience. I tend to waver between wanting to do this and not wanting to do this based on how things are going at that moment in time. And I am well aware of the fact that flakiness can occur on both sides.

 

I just came from my latest tour and have to say I felt a bit more motivated and in control of things than last month, but I still had my doubts and about 3 no-shows from people who contacted me weeks prior to arriving. But I didn't just rush off just because people said they wanted to see me, I put it off a couple of times until I felt comfortable going. I waited until after my birthday and because a friend and I needed to cancel our going out to gay days at waterworld Denver. So, I took that opportunity to go out of town last week.

 

I find that the best way FOR ME to ensure that I don't drive myself crazy and put myself on the line for someone who may not be serious, and they are requesting my company out of town; is to simply request a deposit if I feel their cancelling on me will be a great inconvenience for me. It's not even about necessarily getting the deposit, it's about judging their response to someone asking for one. If they stop responding, or talk about not trusting me...then that shows they don't want me that bad. Now, not everyone will give a deposit nor not every escort who asks for one will receive it. But my reviews have me more than credible and many clients are happy to give me what I need to make sure I can reserve my time for them.

 

My thing is, if someone is really interested, and they're saying everything that I want to hear...give me the guarantee I need in order to make it happen. It's time to take it to the next level. I'm doing things differently now.