Social versus sexual time

[unsub2O17]

I know that this has been discussed "ad nauseum". I also know that escorts state (all the time!) that they are paid the same for sexual and/or social time. What I'm asking here is "why"? I believe myself to be much more interesting and exciting to be with on a social level than a sexual level. If I want to spend time with an escort in a non-sexual setting (on a "regular date"), it's because I want to engage with him in a non-sexual way, and, if he says "yes," I'd like it to be because he wants to be with me for what I have to offer, not for what I can pay. Let's say it's dinner. I'm perfectly willing to pay for his dinner if I ask him, but if he says "yes" and then expects me to pay his escorting rate as well, isn't he saying that he finds me just as lacking intellectually as he does sexually? And since I don't agree with that assessment of myself, why would I agree with it coming from him? I hope I'm being clear. I've thought about this a lot. If the escort has another paying client, of course he say's "no" just like anyone would who "has to work." But to say that going out to dinner (or many other events) with me is "work" hardly gives me an incentive to even ask let alone agree.

[jjkrkwood]

I know that this has been discussed "ad nauseum". I also know that escorts state (all the time!) that they are paid the same for sexual and/or social time. What I'm asking here is "why"? I believe myself to be much more interesting and exciting to be with on a social level than a sexual level. If I want to spend time with an escort in a non-sexual setting (on a "regular date"), it's because I want to engage with him in a non-sexual way, and, if he says "yes," I'd like it to be because he wants to be with me for what I have to offer, not for what I can pay. Let's say it's dinner. I'm perfectly willing to pay for his dinner if I ask him, but if he says "yes" and then expects me to pay his escorting rate as well, isn't he saying that he finds me just as lacking intellectually as he does sexually? And since I don't agree with that assessment of myself, why would I agree with it coming from him? I hope I'm being clear. I've thought about this a lot. If the escort has another paying client, of course he say's "no" just like anyone would who "has to work." But to say that going out to dinner (or many other events) with me is "work" hardly gives me an incentive to even ask let alone agree.

 

Firstly, as an initial meeting, this escort doesnt know you from a hole in the wall, and knows nothing about what you have to offer. At this point you are simply potential cash for him.

 

Most people would prefer to spend social times with people they are familiar with or know they have things in common with. However for those that dont have people in their lives for that, or simply want a cordial experience with a hot guy, they will be paying. But again, when negotiatiing the meet, you must make your intentions clear, and let the escort decide whether he wants that kind of session. Most will, but dont be disappointed if they turn you down... Escorting is HIS business, and sitting at a dinner table with you picking his brain for the cost of his "dinner" is an outrageous expectation on your part, even if you are Albert Einstein or Justin Bieber. It is not a comment on your intelligence, or your sparkling personality, which by the way he knows nothing about, but on his Earning potential. And dinner with you or any other client is WORK for him AND income.... and he should be PAID.

[gp0560]

I think I understand your point, unsub, but please consider that you pay the escort for his time. "Time" is not just a euphemism for sex time, it also truly means his time, in the sense of time he could/would/should be doing other things. Are you paying him a fee of any amount for going to dinner with you? Then you are hiring him, and hiring him for his time, and his stated fee is for his time. What you do during that time is basically up to you.

 

OTOH, if you invite him without paying him (other than buying his meal), then it's a pure social context. If he accepts, you both have a good time. If he declines, you go to bed alone and pull the covers over your head.

[maxwellissmart]

Firstly, as an initial meeting, this escort doesnt know you from a hole in the wall, and knows nothing about what you have to offer. At this point you are simply potential cash for him.

 

Most people would prefer to spend social times with people they are familiar with or know they have things in common with. However for those that dont have people in their lives for that, or simply want a cordial experience with a hot guy, they will be paying. But again, when negotiatiing the meet, you must make your intentions clear, and let the escort decide whether he wants that kind of session. Most will, but dont be disappointed if they turn you down... Escorting is HIS business, and sitting at a dinner table with you picking his brain for the cost of his "dinner" is an outrageous expectation on your part, even if you are Albert Einstein or Justin Bieber. It is not a comment on your intelligence, or your sparkling personality, which by the way he knows nothing about, but on his Earning potential. And dinner with you or any other client is WORK for him AND income.... and he should be PAID.

 

I agree with JJ for the most part here—I usually don't agree to social time until after sexytime is done. Then it's usually my idea if we've hit it off, and I'm hungry (keep in mind, I'm always hungry, so that's half the battle there). Some clients just don't have much to offer in the way of conversation, and some are great to be around. I don't usually charge for social time if you buy me a drink or a plate of french fries. If you decide to put social time in between bouts of sexytime, then you're going to get charged, but usually not just a straight rate across the board—I'll adjust the rate to be realistic.

[unsub2O17]

." Escorting is HIS business, and sitting at a dinner table with you picking his brain for the cost of his "dinner" is an outrageous expectation on your part"

 

JJ, again I ask "why"? Hopefully, he's picking my brain as well which is every bit as fertile as his. Is sitting at home "picking" his dinner (at his expense) instead of being with me (and getting both me and his dinner) really preferable because being with me socially is "business"? Of course, if he has other clients or other "work" that he'd rather be doing, that's fine. But to only socially date me because I'm paying for his time (as well as everything else) just doesn't seem complimentary or realistic to me.

[jjkrkwood]

." Escorting is HIS business, and sitting at a dinner table with you picking his brain for the cost of his "dinner" is an outrageous expectation on your part"

 

JJ, again I ask "why"? Hopefully, he's picking my brain as well which is every bit as fertile as his. Is sitting at home "picking" his dinner (at his expense) instead of being with me (and getting both me and his dinner) really preferable because being with me socially is "business"? Of course, if he has other clients or other "work" that he'd rather be doing, that's fine. But to only socially date me because I'm paying for his time (as well as everything else) just doesn't seem complimentary or realistic to me.

 

unsub, you are "assuming" he is sitting home waiting for a dinner invite. Thats why I said in my OP that upon your initial contact, you need to lay-out what your intention IS, and let him either accept or decline. Escorts are capable of booking session on the spur of the moment, so whether he would forfeit a potential $300 slot for a burger and fries at the local diner with a person he may NEVER see again is Clearly HIS decision to make. (and obviously I am trying to be witty regarding the venue) . I dont believe the escorts main goal is to find friendships. Perhaps it will evolve into that if the first meeting, and followups go well, but I think you are truly missing the point of an escort encounter...

[gp0560]

But to only socially date me because I'm paying for his time (as well as everything else) just doesn't seem complimentary or realistic to me.

 

Unsub, do you see "social dating" as compatible with "paying for his time"? This gets back to my earlier post. If he sees you for a fee, it's not a social date. If no fee, then it might be a date, or it might be just two guys hangin'.

[robberbaron4u]

And I am in complete agreement with "His Grace". "Escorting" is a business, and, more likely or not, the escort has little in common, and, without promise of "something being there" in the way of monetary reward, less interest in your private life. Too, the very few occasions on which I have undertaken to introduce, at his behest, a rentboy to my "social life" have been a disappointment, and, in one instance, an embarrassment.

[seeker630]

I know that this has been discussed "ad nauseum". I also know that escorts state (all the time!) that they are paid the same for sexual and/or social time. What I'm asking here is "why"? I believe myself to be much more interesting and exciting to be with on a social level than a sexual level. If I want to spend time with an escort in a non-sexual setting (on a "regular date"), it's because I want to engage with him in a non-sexual way, and, if he says "yes," I'd like it to be because he wants to be with me for what I have to offer, not for what I can pay. Let's say it's dinner. I'm perfectly willing to pay for his dinner if I ask him, but if he says "yes" and then expects me to pay his escorting rate as well, isn't he saying that he finds me just as lacking intellectually as he does sexually? And since I don't agree with that assessment of myself, why would I agree with it coming from him? I hope I'm being clear. I've thought about this a lot. If the escort has another paying client, of course he say's "no" just like anyone would who "has to work." But to say that going out to dinner (or many other events) with me is "work" hardly gives me an incentive to even ask let alone agree.

 

Unsub, these non-sexual, non-commercial dinners sound like friendship to me - is that how you would characterize them? it seems to me that you want to have a non-client relationship (for these events) - as an escort, I might be wary of blurring the lines and/or compromising the escort-client relationship.

 

On one level, you're saying, "shouldn't he like me enough to go to dinner without a fee?". Not sure anyone except the individual in question can answer that.

[jawjateck]

I don't agree with the point here. For example, I'm a self-employed consultant, in an obscure field; years ago, I had a partner, but I'm a one-man outfit now. I have diverse clients. Some are relatively new; some have used my services for over 10 years. Some are easy to work with, even pleasant. I enjoy meetings with them and projects upon which we have agreed. Others are a pain-in-the-ass. They make everything difficult, and create drama and hassles out of nothing. But my billing rate is my billing rate. I don't offer discounts based on the pleasantry of the social discourse I have with them, or how highly I regard them as people. With regard to the troublesome clients, I make sure they are billed to the max, including expenses. I don't cut anyone a break based on personal feelings. All clients are free to discontinue my services at their will and pleasure, just as I am free to end my association with them and refer them to seek other assistance.

 

The individual you are dining is an escort/companion/courtesan (where's Charlie when I need him?); you haven't been introduced to him in a social context. He is a businessman. You are a client. His prevailing billing rates apply.

[jjkrkwood]

unsub, if its friendship you are truly seeking, I suggest you seek out social groups with members your own age who actually have the potential to become your "Friend" and socialize with you, and are people you perhaps have things in common with.

 

The potential of that with an escort is "IFFY" at best....

[unsub2O17]

Unsub, do you see "social dating" as compatible with "paying for his time"? This gets back to my earlier post. If he sees you for a fee, it's not a social date. If no fee, then it might be a date, or it might be just two guys hangin'.

 

I think I agree with this because, "no" I guess that I do not see "social dating" as compatible with "paying for his time". JJ's point is good too. I can see saying "no" just because a session might become available. As I said originally, my own evaluation of myself is much, much better socially and intellectually than it is sexually. And, yes, I can see that an escort cannot make this determination without a fair amount of interaction. But, if I can make it of him, why can't he try and do the same for me? I'm not talking about a lifetime friendship here. I'm talking about adding a dimension to our relationship. Even if we never see each other again, haven't we both benefited from both types of encounter without making it just another business transaction?

[unsub2O17]

Between the time I posted my last response and now, I can see that there have been a number of other responses. Thank you. It seems that, so far, the consensus is that escorts interact with clients IN ANY WAY as a business transaction, period.

[Lookin]

Even if we never see each other again, haven't we both benefited from both types of encounter without making it just another business transaction?

 

I recall reading that several escorts have had problems with clients attempting to blur the lines between a business relationship and a personal one. This is not your intention, of course, but I think an escort would have to be pretty skilled to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[unsub2O17]

I recall reading that several escorts have had problems with clients attempting to blur the lines between a business relationship and a personal one. This is not your intention, of course, but I think an escort would have to be pretty skilled to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

[gp0560]

Between the time I posted my last response and now, I can see that there have been a number of other responses. Thank you. It seems that, so far, the consensus is that escorts interact with clients IN ANY WAY as a business transaction, period.

 

I agree. But another and different situation has occurred to me. If you have seen the escort a number of times and you two have developed a cordial relationship, the escort may offer you something or some time on his dime. If he offers to pay for anything, then I think you might possibly get into a serious friendship. In fact, this has happened to me. But if you're paying, it's business, even if you continue to spend quality time with him in or out of bed. $0.02 worth.

[Guest countryboywny]

Unsub,

 

I agree with many who have commented and I also see your point. I think the solution is easy here. Invite an escort to a "dinner and conversation only" appointment and ask him what the rate will be. Don't be surprised if he responds with his posted hourly rate. If he offers a discount, great! My thought is that an escort accepting a dinner date at no or a greatly reduced rate would amount to his saying he only sells sex. .. and we all know it's not about that!

[Decatur Guy]

I have no issue with an escort asking full price for "social time." He's just simply not going to spend paid social time with me.

 

I like to have a conversational ice-breaker when meeting, but after five to 10 minutes, I'm ready for the games to begin. Ten minutes of talk in a 60-minute appointment is more than enough. I can't imagine ever paying $200 or more (plus their meal) just to eat with me. Good Lord. I have 20 or more people who'll be glad to eat with me dutch or pay my bill (or me pay theirs).

[jjkrkwood]

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

 

 

Once again unsub, you are "overthinking" which is a trait you have which many of us addressed in your first post on this site. Why not just go thru the course of your life and let things evolve "naturally". If you set yourself up for disappointment, you will be disappointed. And it really will depend on the escorts point-of-view....

[jawjateck]

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

 

If you hired a companion previously, and he contacts you for social interaction, then it's ok to proceed with an "off-the-clock" social engagement. I have had several escorts meet with me "off-the-clock" for lunch/dinner. I had previously hired them, we enjoyed each other's company, and remained cordial such that a mild social engagement was appropriate. They contacted me to set up the meeting. Every such encounter has been an enjoyable time.

 

If an escort makes subsequent contact with you for an "on-the-clock" dinner, then you set the terms of the deal, and if he doesn't like it, so be it.

[jjkrkwood]

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

 

Initially YES, but it will ultimately depend on the chemistry between you 2 and the frequency of your visits on whether your relationship will evolve to another level. Dont take a rejection so personally if it occurs. The primary goal of an escort is "income" and his TIME is his asset... His refusing a dinner invite is NO reflection on YOU, regardless of how intelligent and interesting as a dinner companion you see Yourself. Its basically economics....

[maxwellissmart]

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

 

No, the key is to remember that every social interaction—paid segments or no—is based on shades of gray for the most part. You can always ask at the end of the appointment if the escort would like to grab a quick bite (I would avoid suggesting alcohol, since they'll have to drive). They will either take you up on it or not, and don't get your feelings hurt if they don't.

[Lookin]

So "the better part of valor" here is to just not interact socially. That way, I won't feel demeaned, and the escort will not have to worry. Have I got this right?

Sounds a smidge like black and white thinking, and I hope you didn't get that from anything I posted. What was intended was a caution that you may get a few no's before you get a yes. If that would make you feel demeaned, then tread lightly. There are plenty of good reasons why you might get turned down, none having to do with your desirability as a dinner companion.

 

If you think you can handle a possible rejection or two along the way, go for it! Bon appétit! http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/food/apero.gif

 

 

( Note to self: Read what JJ and Max have to say before posting; will save a lot of typing. )

[Epigonos]

I may be the odd man out here but that won't be anything new. I NEVER hire for one hour. I ALWAYS hire for either lunch or dinner (the escorts choice) and then two hours of play time. For that amount of time I expect to pay between $500 and $600.

 

I recently contacted an escort who informed me that his hourly rate was $250 and that my suggestion would require a minimum of three hours thus his fee would be $750. I thanked him and apologized for wasting his time explaining that his fee was out of my range. He countered by asking me what was my range. I informed him that I found his question difficult in that I NEVER bargained with an escort regarding his fee. I told him that my range was $500 to $600 but that I wasn't asking him do accept that amount and that if he offered to do so I would feel uncomfortable meeting under those circumstances.

 

After ten years of hiring escorts I have decided that it is my way or no way. Yes I know that is an arrogant, egotistical, self-centered attitude -- so be it.

[tyro]

I don't see what's so arrogant about that; you're letting the guy name his own price and then stick to it. If his lowering his fee would make him come off like a used-car salesman to you, then that will devalue the whole experience -- in every way.

T