Men4rent raises rates again, should we?

[JoeyBryant]

You show me an investor that doesn't get a return on his investment and I'll show you an IDIOT! Seriously, investors don't buy stock to lose money, they buy it to MAKE MONEY!

 

Bally Total Fitness sold out to LA Fitness. They had to because the failed at the single most important thing a gym must do. UPDATE THEIR EQUIPMENT and LISTEN TO THEIR CLIENTS!

 

LA Fitness is a profitable organization that is 'restructuring' the Bally locations that are economically feasible - oh and the new rates? TRIPLE BTF rates.

 

Good informational point there. But what does this have to do with men4rent ads? That said, LA fitness looks kinda pretentious to me. Wouldn't want to pay 3 times the amount. Not as if we have any here to begin with, just Bally.

[Rod Hagen]

Hey Rock et al.

1. I've hit the ground running the last few mornings and haven't read your responses carefully enough. Sorry.

2. I'm too lazy to consult BLS website to confirm or refute my position. So, my argument is basically untenable.

 

I was however, talking about rates stagnating at 1999 rates, not 2004/5/6/7/8/9/10/11/12 rates. It FEELS as if there are not many other fields of self-employment retarded at 13 year old hourly rates. Many, probably. But not most. I may be wrong. I'm probably most definitely wrong and assuming I don't take the time to research it, it's probably best you ignore me.

 

I never claimed people haven't lost money or reduced their rates DURING the last 13 years, that would be stupid. I'm simply at a loss to think of people I know who charge hourly rates, who aren't escorts, and who NEVER raised their rates since 1999.

 

Someone within the thread asked why I/we just don't raise rates. From my experience, with obvious exceptions, within the last 13 years those "Top-Tier" (decide for yourselves whatever that means) escorts who've asked hourly rates higher than 1999's $200/$250 ($300 NYC) don't last. Take a look at those escorts, like me, who've been working for (Choke) 12 years or more. I think you'll find their rates now pretty much the same as 1999*. Again, this isn't scientific, and it's really not worth proving me wrong, the most you'll get from me is a sloppy blow j...apology.

 

*Fixated on 1999 because it sounds cool AND that's when I started escorting.

[JoeyBryant]

Huh?? Exactly which other sole proprietors don't have to pay for their own advertising, supplies and bills? Clients should be paying our rent directly, on top of our three-digit hourly fee? And frankly, most trips we take are footed by a client. Escorting is probably the least capital intensive and most rewarding job I can think of.

 

We are free to set whatever rate we can get. Nothing is stopping you from trying a higher rate. I for one am very grateful to the generosity of my clients and very happy with my current profession.

 

Kevin Slater

 

I said nothing that even resembled clients paying our rent directly and hourly fee.

 

Not to say those in other self-employable positions don't have overhead either. What I was trying to say is that generally though it's almost always a 1 man show. I was relating to his saying how photographers work. And I've worked with enough photographers to know how they work.

 

Although I'm sure there is a few who do, if not several...but most photographers do their work locally with occasional travel. They don't generally go to a bunch of cities like we do in a short amount of time. They do have a high overhead with equipment and such, but it's usually their studio and their equipment. Unless they are among the top photographers or paparazzi, they don't tend to travel as frequently. I don't doubt other proprietors having expenses. There's lots of blogs and websites from independent contractors and freelancers that discuss it and I get a lot of business savvy from reading those sites.

 

I'm also very happy with my current profession. Don't get me mixed up. Otherwise I'd of quit long time ago. But at the same time, where you live and where I live are 2 different places and rates are going to be a bit different. VERY different. I'm sure my condo (20' ceilings, fireplace, balcony, washer and dryer) in downtown NYC Chelsea would cost $3,000 or more IF such a place even existed but probably in the form of a house which would be even MORE. Of course I'd be asking more money.

 

So what's stopping me from raising my fee? The area and the fact that I don't just want a higher fee. I want to be able to get the demand for the higher fee as well. Anybody can raise a fee, that's not hard. But I want to be successful with it. 2 different things.

 

I don't want to start hearing, "that's too rich for my blood" and "thats a bit outside of my budget" or "there's another Black guy charging $150, but your body is a lot hotter, can you do $150?" after a rate change. So I want to avoid hearing these things if I can, but not necessarily by charging what they are.

 

I been living in Denver 1 year, long enough. I know how they are here. Growing up in Florida, I'm aware that they don't "throw money at you" like New Yorkers will. A New Yorker will pay for sex in a heartbeat. Or shall I say, "a New York minute" Many people out here feel that sex is inherently free, probably why most guys in the area come and go all the time. They pop up with some cheap ass rate and then bounce off the market shortly after. If it wasn't for traveling, I'd probably be back to the 9-5.

[RockHard]

It FEELS as if there are not many other fields of self-employment retarded at 13 year old hourly rates.

 

That may be true. But since hiring an escort is an ancillary service, the level of demand is never a guarantee. Therefore, if you raise rates, you risk losing current customers and turning off those on the fence waiting to take the plunge. And let's not forget, gay men can be extremely frugal, especially when it comes to paying for certain services. They can be a tough market.

 

In this case, escorting is like dentistry. In a recession or depression, one of the first services to get cut from a budget is a visit to the dentist. If a dentist raises his rates, no matter the state of the economy, he/she risks losing a segment of his/her customers. It's a competitive business that most customers don't love (unlike sleeping with an escort), but there's always a newer guy on the block who charges less (very much like sleeping with an escort).

[Rod Hagen]

I for one am very grateful to the generosity of my clients and very happy with my current profession.

 

Dude, what the fuck?

[Rod Hagen]

gay men can be extremely frugal, especially when it comes to paying for certain services. They can be a tough market.

 

I'm fairly certain gays are generally statistically more spendy than straights; easier nuts to crack.

[Rod Hagen]

In this case, escorting is like dentistry. In a recession or depression, one of the first services to get cut from a budget is a visit to the dentist.

 

Yes that explains dropping rates back down to pre-recession and/or pre-bubble burst levels but it doesn't explain 1999-2004 stagnation. And that's what frustrates me.

[Kevin Slater]

It absolutely drives me crazy that escorts have been unable to raise our rates for the last 12 years.

 

Dude, what the fuck?

 

Kevin Slater

[jjkrkwood]

Dude, what the fuck?

 

OK, so I am not an escort, but still puzzled about what all the hoopla is about. Everyone is Free to raise their rates at will, noone is stopping you. YES, some clients may drop off, but nothing is stopping you from charging THEM their original fee. For each 5 clients that MIGHT defect, you will probably gain new clients to replace them as long as you are still charging a "reasonable" rate for the service you provide. AND, if higher rates dont work out, then lower them back. Its pretty simple, unless I am missing something ? Since you are self-employed you pretty much have the luxury of doing whatever it is you want with your services and price structure. Isnt almost everything in life pretty much trial and error ?

[Rod Hagen]

Dude, what the fuck?

 

Kevin Slater

 

Like I said, take a look at those of us who've been doing it for 12+ years and you'll see our rates have stayed relatively the same. And, as I said before, those who have tried to push beyond $250 West Coast and $300 NYC don't last long.

[Rod Hagen]

AND, if higher rates dont work out, then lower them back. Its pretty simple, unless I am missing something ?

 

Yes. The market won't support it and I'm complaining. Again.

[Decatur Guy]

Going back to men4rentnow and rentboy. It's too bad we can't organize ourselves and say that on July 1, 2012, escorts agree amongst themselves to drop their men4rentnow site and join not rentboy, but rentmen, which is the best of the three.

 

If I ran rentmen, I'd offer one month free with a three-month ad just to get advertisers in.

[MiamiLooker]

Yes. The market won't support it and I'm complaining. Again.

 

Do you think fees are going to get better? The internet has made it so easy for hirers to find available guys at every fee level. And there are a lot more available guys than just those found on rentboy or m4rn. Some might want to think that a lesser fee equates to lesser quality. They can think what they want, but that has not been my experience.

[RockHard]

I'm fairly certain gays are generally statistically more spendy than straights

 

There's no doubt about that but they are not "more spendy" when it comes to certain items, and sex services fall into that category.

 

but it doesn't explain 1999-2004 stagnation. And that's what frustrates me.

 

Stagnation has nothing to do with it. There are certain services, like a haircut, which typically have a cost limit in the mind of each customer. No one has control over what that cost limit might be. All one can do is try to market their services to the type of customer one is trying to attract.

 

If your service is already established, such as in your case, it is challenging (but not impossible) to change your price point upward and avoid the risk of losing the business you already built. Obviously, you're free to charge whatever you want whenever you want, but every price change in the service business has an effect. Every service business will lose some customers, even if the price increase is nominal. They call that human nature.

 

Most people in your position try a new marketing approach, as in create a more expensive service that offers bells and whistles, and see who bites. It's a nice way to present a creative option to a more upscale customer. Creating tier structure service packages also is an option, augmented by a hot new website. Effective marketing is a test of creative skill. It comes easy to some and not so easy for others.

 

I'm complaining. Again.

 

It's funny how some men don't make of habit of it and remain sexy when they come here to vent.

[JoeyBryant]

Do you think fees are going to get better? The internet has made it so easy for hirers to find available guys at every fee level. And there are a lot more available guys than just those found on rentboy or m4rn. Some might want to think that a lesser fee equates to lesser quality. They can think what they want, but that has not been my experience.

 

And exactly where are you finding these guys at? I hope you're not talking about backpage...

[corndog]

I'm not an economist, but I think the stagnant prices are a simple matter of supply and demand.

 

In this economy, there are three factors which are working together to prevent prices from increasing:

 

1- Disposable income is down, reducing the number of potential clients and the frequency with which they'll hire.

 

2- A tough job market has nudged more men into the profession, as prospects of other employment has diminished.

 

3- The internet has created a "more efficient market," meaning that it is easier for clients to shop and find a wide spectrum of choices.

 

As with anything else in a free market, as supply increases and demand decreases, prices will become more competitive.

[+ Axiom2001]

I completely agree with you and I think part of the issue is where you are located (escort). For me in Florida, M4RN is a much better site for finding clients, don't know why, but I've done both RentBoy and M4RN and had FAR better results with the latter.

 

Also, even if you only plan on having a M4RN ad for a month or two, it's better and more economical to sign up for the recurring payment plan, just as long as you remember to cancel it before the next month. I've heard CCBill is a pain to deal with, so it's better to cancel right after your last month is charged on your card, then use the ad til it expires! I did that and saved more money than if I was to pay for only 1-3 months right off the bat.

 

I've also noticed some on there post in the wanted section, saying they want an escort/model for $70/hour, even when they probably know that most guys in the area are asking for $200+. Maybe they hope to catch someone that's really hurting for money or something, who knows.

 

 

What about http://www.rentmen.com? Have you tried advertising there? Of the three major escort sites for ads-- I use http://www.rentmen.com and http://www.rentboy.com when engaging meetings with the guys. Rarely have I used http://www.men4rentnow.com. I find this site not too user-friendly when navigating. I also DO NOT like it that one cannot send emails to escorts as readily as he can when using the two preceding sites. At M4R clients send their phone numbers vs. writing a message. [i hope that I am correct; I have not used this site to engage my 'fun activities' although one of my most favorite escorts whose fee is mighty, mighty reasonable and has NOT changed since I began engaging his services in 2004; he's a premium member, I think!

[josephga]

where you live determines what you sometimes have to use. I have massage clients that sometimes hire escorts. I ask them where do they hire from? They all say m4rn. people in Atlanta don't use rentboy

[Guest JackF]

What about http://www.rentmen.com? Have you tried advertising there? Of the three major escort sites for ads-- I use http://www.rentmen.com and http://www.rentboy.com when engaging meetings with the guys. Rarely have I used http://www.men4rentnow.com. I find this site not too user-friendly when navigating. I also DO NOT like it that one cannot send emails to escorts as readily as he can when using the two preceding sites. At M4R clients send their phone numbers vs. writing a message. [i hope that I am correct; I have not used this site to engage my 'fun activities' although one of my most favorite escorts whose fee is mighty, mighty reasonable and has NOT changed since I began engaging his services in 2004; he's a premium member, I think!

 

 

It may have been like this a few years ago, however now on M4RN, a client can send the escort a message (just like RB) via the site and include his email, name, phone number and a message for the escort. It appears to me that on RentBoy, some clients have an issue finding where/how to email/message an escort besides simply calling/texting them. It explicitly states on my ad that I can't always answer my phone/text (i.e. in class, with roommate, friends, family, etc.) so it's best to email me to arrange, yet I still get many excessive calls/texts.

M4RN is still not as advanced as RentBoy may be, but as joseph mentioned, it also depends on where you are advertising. In Florida, for example, most people use M4RN over Rentboy and I've had FAR more luck/responses with M4RN compared to Rentboy....but I'm also just one escort.

[JoeyBryant]

I've had FAR more luck/responses with M4RN compared to Rentboy....but I'm also just one escort.

 

It's true for me too.

 

However, rentboy has it's place because it tends to give me the clients who spend longer time and pay higher rates. I just wish that on some months I pay for an ad I would get something rather than go every other month sometimes.

 

Bottom line is these sites are still a bit expensive and I don't I'm getting in THAT much work from these sites unless I'm traveling, which costs money. Then I have to pay these sites too. It's like they are saying they are raising them, quote:

 

Prices have been increased to to allow us to further invest in the site, add new features, and increase our advertising to bring in new Clients.

 

But they need to get on the ball. Stop putting banner ads for fucking free sex sites on an escort site. It makes no sense unless it's there to benefit us in our free time. It just doesn't seem like there's enough being done. It's like forget how you're doing, but we're going to raise our ad prices anyway.

 

However, I noticed their $60 Silver package isn't all that bad. My phone bill is more. In fact, I'd be okay paying up to $80 a month for an ad...but I was used to Platinum and only paying $39 (used to be $29 last year) rather than have to come up with the whole amount. So $129 a month...I'm just not going to do it until I see some SIGNIFICANT improvement or until I wind up in a much larger market.

 

And let's not forget, gay men can be extremely frugal, especially when it comes to paying for certain services. They can be a tough market.

 

you mean paying for sex? of course they can be. Sites like craigslist and dare I say adam4adam serve to only further promote it. They don't really want to go out, they don't want to meet you someplace first...they just expect you to come over, get right to action and leave. For free. And THEN have the audacity to shun an escort. Like, why are you getting so bent out of shape when you're doing exactly the same thing except not getting or giving money for it? How does it make what I'm doing any more different than you?

 

The type of gay men those sites generally attract (the frugal ones) versus what the paid sites attract or totally different. And I thank God for that.

[josephga]

I wouldn't even want to deal with those clients that search for services off craiglist or adam4adam. I tried advertising massage on craiglist for a week once in 2009. all want upscale restaurant services at a McDonalds happy meal price. most were hicks and rednecks who didn't have a clue what services should cost and are worth.. wanting escort services out of a 75.00 massage. lousy tippers. more no shows than any other group of clients

[MiamiLooker]

And exactly where are you finding these guys at? I hope you're not talking about backpage...

 

Why do you hope that?

[MiamiLooker]

I wouldn't even want to deal with those clients that search for services off craiglist or adam4adam. I tried advertising massage on craiglist for a week once in 2009. all want upscale restaurant services at a McDonalds happy meal price. most were hicks and rednecks who didn't have a clue what services should cost and are worth.. wanting escort services out of a 75.00 massage. lousy tippers. more no shows than any other group of clients

 

It’s too bad your CL experience hasn’t been as successful as mine. Was there something in your ad that seemed to attract hicks and rednecks? I’ve met several really hot guys from CL as well as adam4adam that will play 4 pay.

[josephga]

It’s too bad your CL experience hasn’t been as successful as mine. Was there something in your ad that seemed to attract hicks and rednecks? I’ve met several really hot guys from CL as well as adam4adam that will play 4 pay.

 

the clients I got from a massage ad i posted. they thought a 75.00 massage should include full serve

[JoeyBryant]

Why do you hope that?

 

Because it's a sick, disgusting website for many reasons. *%$SPECIALS SPECIALS SPECIALS* is all you ever see. Sure, about once every 2 months I'll throw something up to fill a schedule but even then it hasn't come thru when I wanted it to.

 

And I too get the responses Joseph has gotten. Even when I've offered lower rates than my men4rent ads, people STILL expect less. And I don't believe there are more of those guys on backpage than rentboy and men4rent. There's always more guys on the real escort sites.

 

Look at this ad in Miami, since you may be from there:

 

Ya you heard it right $50 incall specials till 10pm!! ACT NOW!!! CALL MIGUEL!!!

100% American/TEXAS Muscle

 

Exactly what service for $50 is he offering? Sure he's cute as a button but that rate won't get anyone far except the next 'fix'. He probably has roommates hiding in the closet peeking out at you or waiting to jump out and beat you. Or has no car and no incall and expects you to pick him up and take you back to his place. And what's sad is the same client looking at his ad and pay him $50 would probably look at his ad on men4rent and pay $200. That's what makes it even worse.

 

That's the stuff that damages the industry, and your patronizing further helps his exploitation. If people stopped being desperate, maybe we'd all be making a little more money. Those rates help keep us all broke, busted and disgusted which in turn equates to crappy service to clients. Plus, those rates attract dangerous clients that will come in and try to walk out without paying you. Unless it's for a massage.