Men4rent raises rates again, should we?

[JoeyBryant]

Before I came to the forum, I did consult M4R about the new changes and 4 package levels and how I wasn't thrilled with it. However, turns out that they responded saying that they are upping their advertising to get in more clients for us.

 

At the same time, the site has gotten cheaper on a couple of new plans but sacrificing some features such as travel cities and placement amongst the ads, It goes, $29.95 bronze $59.95 silver, $79.95 gold, or $119.95 platinum for recurring plans. Or you can save and pay over $600 for 90 days.

 

I'm sure most people are going to want to go atleast silver or gold. Platinum is almost priced out.

 

Seems like the solution is to just get a part time job just to cover advertising costs. And not to diss anyone, but for some people charging stuff like $125 for an outcall on men4rent, which then clients began to expect that average, just gets to me. If you don't believe that it happens, it's already happened in the past where a client has expected me to come over for $100 or $150 because another guy on men4rent is charging that amount. Even years ago, a guy from rentboy called me to do a 3way with some guy who was charging $150 for incall at his hotel. Meaning he was traveling. Client wanted me to come for that amount (I think I was like 175 at the time). I felt emasculated. Sized up, and talked down.

 

I told men4rent that they should atleast have some sort of guide or idea on what guys should be asking for rather than just jumping on the market offering bare minimum stuff. Because then it's like, "well you got 3 guys asking this much". Well those 3 other guys can't do incalls so they don't live alone like I do. They don't travel to 3 cities in 11 days like I do. They don't look like how I do. Act like how I do. Reviews like I have. So they are not going to ask for what I do. So how can one not expect something different?

 

Like there's a banner on cruising for escorts that says, "make $200 an hour" which advertises what an escort can make on men4rent. But they say that they don't offer any tips or advice on creating ads.

[Guest JackF]

I completely agree with you and I think part of the issue is where you are located (escort). For me in Florida, M4RN is a much better site for finding clients, don't know why, but I've done both RentBoy and M4RN and had FAR better results with the latter.

 

Also, even if you only plan on having a M4RN ad for a month or two, it's better and more economical to sign up for the recurring payment plan, just as long as you remember to cancel it before the next month. I've heard CCBill is a pain to deal with, so it's better to cancel right after your last month is charged on your card, then use the ad til it expires! I did that and saved more money than if I was to pay for only 1-3 months right off the bat.

 

I've also noticed some on there post in the wanted section, saying they want an escort/model for $70/hour, even when they probably know that most guys in the area are asking for $200+. Maybe they hope to catch someone that's really hurting for money or something, who knows.

[Guest JackF]

But yes, even from when I advertised on M4RN back last summer, I too just noticed that they upped their pricing for monthly ads, even if it's recurring. Wonder why they did that, I used to pay $69.99 for the Gold ad, recurring payment, now it's $10 more/month.

[JoeyBryant]

I've also noticed some on there post in the wanted section, saying they want an escort/model for $70/hour, even when they probably know that most guys in the area are asking for $200+. Maybe they hope to catch someone that's really hurting for money or something, who knows.

 

Yeah I always like to just cancel the recurring stuff. I just have different accounts so I don't know which one is going to have the right amount in there. There's been times I've been on the way someplace out of town and seen $99 ripped from my account. Like dammit, I wanted the $49 plan this month. I don't need Platinum when there's only 2 pages of escorts!

 

I don't want people to think I'm being a snob or anything, but I think a lot of times we "do it to ourselves". Like, there's only 3 or 4 other exotic guys in my area and they are all asking $150 or less. And because of it, I've decided to drop down by $20 myself just to be competitive. If it doesn't work this month, my rates are going right back up. It's like dammit, do you all want to stay at $150 or do you want to advance? It's possible to get a little more if you just ask for it. It's no secret that most clients are only going to come around once or twice. Don't start offering discounts right off the bat. They just going to pay your $150 and turn around and pay another guy (or perhaps you again) $150 that following week. Meanwhile these guys thinking $150 is all they can afford.

 

And too, I'm not saying that it's never okay to go along with a little less or $100 or something. Not every appointment calls for making $200. But like you said, there is a general price to be expected on men4rent. I'm speaking specifically of that site. There's different tiers of websites and rentboy and men4rent should be the site where we can go to when we need to make $200 or 300. On a slow week, that makes a world of a difference. By asking for $150, it basically kisses our chances goodbye. On the contrary there's adam4adam and backpage if someone is desperate and needs to make $70.

 

I wish they would do like massage m4m and offer different rates for time. You can get a massage from 15 minutes to like 260 minutes.

[maxwellissmart]

Yeah I always like to just cancel the recurring stuff. I just have different accounts so I don't know which one is going to have the right amount in there. There's been times I've been on the way someplace out of town and seen $99 ripped from my account. Like dammit, I wanted the $49 plan this month. I don't need Platinum when there's only 2 pages of escorts!

 

I don't want people to think I'm being a snob or anything, but I think a lot of times we "do it to ourselves". Like, there's only 3 or 4 other exotic guys in my area and they are all asking $150 or less. And because of it, I've decided to drop down by $20 myself just to be competitive. If it doesn't work this month, my rates are going right back up. It's like dammit, do you all want to stay at $150 or do you want to advance? It's possible to get a little more if you just ask for it. It's no secret that most clients are only going to come around once or twice. Don't start offering discounts right off the bat. They just going to pay your $150 and turn around and pay another guy (or perhaps you again) $150 that following week. Meanwhile these guys thinking $150 is all they can afford.

 

And too, I'm not saying that it's never okay to go along with a little less or $100 or something. Not every appointment calls for making $200. But like you said, there is a general price to be expected on men4rent. I'm speaking specifically of that site. There's different tiers of websites and rentboy and men4rent should be the site where we can go to when we need to make $200 or 300. On a slow week, that makes a world of a difference. By asking for $150, it basically kisses our chances goodbye. On the contrary there's adam4adam and backpage if someone is desperate and needs to make $70.

 

I wish they would do like massage m4m and offer different rates for time. You can get a massage from 15 minutes to like 260 minutes.

 

Thank you for posting this. I agree with Jack about the importance of M4RN to my ability to escort. Other escorts like Kevin Slater have said they don't like it, and I think that's indicative of a lot of bigger-city escorts who get the majority of their traffic from Rentboy. I've never made a dime off Rentboy or that bastard cousin of Hooboy, Male Escort Review (I DID however get a ton of spam). I've made a shitload off M4RN though—and although I don't like paying more, I'm not in a position to cancel and go somewhere else.

 

My only complaint is that they need to do some upgrades to the site. Personally I wish they would do away with that stupid "Wanted Now" bullshit, which might as well be called "The M4RN Coupon Clipper." The ONLY people I've ever seen post on there apparently think M4RN is fucking Priceline.com. It's not, and they're wasting their time by trying to get someone at 75% off. And the client review thing is worthless. Add a field as to WHY the client sucked or was stellar, please. And add a massage rate field while you're at it.

 

Oh, and I just sent an email requesting to bump down to a bronze listing, to see if they'll do it (which I'm sure they won't).

 

Update: they say you can only upgrade, not downgrade—and the "Bronze" tier is only available in "certain cities." The certain cities are apparently Bumfuck, Little Rock and Cheyenne—which have virtually no escorts as it is.

 

Riiight. Still, you have to pay money to make money, and lube and condoms and other accoutrements aren't free either (unless you shoplift, like myself).

[Guest JackF]

My only complaint is that they need to do some upgrades to the site. Personally I wish they would do away with that stupid "Wanted Now" bullshit, which might as well be called "The M4RN Coupon Clipper." The ONLY people I've ever seen post on there apparently think M4RN is fucking Priceline.com. It's not, and they're wasting their time by trying to get someone at 75% off. And the client review thing is worthless. Add a field as to WHY the client sucked or was stellar, please. And add a massage rate field while you're at it.

 

 

 

I agree, I did get two clients that kept harassing me and sending me emails/messages that had negative reviews on them. Couldn't figure out why, but after they kept pestering me about stuff, I just figured that they must've done something to get a negative review on the site. I wish I would know what it was, but I figured if someone went to the length to write multiple negative reviews, they must've pissed someone off, ha.

 

And yes, there are definitely those on the Wanted postings that treat it like it's priceline.com, who knows, maybe they actually pull guys doing that....it must work cause it's always the same guys I've noticed that post them for ridiculously low rates.

[down_to_business]

It does work on occasion. I rarely use it. The only thing I 'like' about it is it allows me to convey what I am able to spend at the moment and guys that are interested can contact me instead of me having to waste everyones time asking rates (well over 50% of the ads I see say ask, nego, or are left blank) just to find out they charge $20 more dollars than I have in my pocket at the moment.

[tom1980]

I've had some success using the wanted list when I travel. I post the wanted list ad a couple of weeks in advance and escorts who are traveling to that city at the same time sometimes respond. I'm not always interested in the person who responds, but it gives me the option of scheduling in advance with someone I otherwise wouldn't know is going to be available in that city at that time. I'll have to start posting $50/hour ads in DC to see if I can get a response from Max's alter ego.

[jimboivyo]

don't like their new rates, don't pay em. simple and effective, no?

[corndog]

As a client, I wish m4rn would just go away. Their search results seem to be dominated by inactive ads, or ads from traveling escorts who may be in the city someday, but who knows when. And, their photo viewer is awful; small photos and more advertising crap than content. I'll only check it as a last resort.

[Kevin Slater]

As a client, I wish m4rn would just go away.

 

You don't have to be a client to have that sentiment.

 

Kevin Slater

[Guest JackF]

As a client, I wish m4rn would just go away. Their search results seem to be dominated by inactive ads, or ads from traveling escorts who may be in the city someday, but who knows when. And, their photo viewer is awful; small photos and more advertising crap than content. I'll only check it as a last resort.

 

 

I can certainly understand your frustrations with the site, escorts have them as well! I love the layout and features of Rentboy, however in my particular area (Florida), M4RN seems to be much more "active" than Rentboy. RB will charge a higher fee based on the city while only allowing you to be listed in that one city whereas M4RN is definitely cheaper, allows you to be listed in many more cities, and allow escorts to get more "attention/hits" from clients.

 

I've discussed this alot with both escorts and clients and it comes down to the particular area that you/escorts are in. The south seems to field more from M4RN whereas other big cities in the north use RB much more.

 

Just my .02, though.

[Guest JackF]

I also noticed when logging in to M4RN ad that if you create a "new" ad then it lists one grouping of prices to advertise (more expensive, less options).

 

And when I logged in to my old, expired ad, that it had an entirely different list of prices to advertise. I emailed them because I wasn't even offered the option for a recurring payment plan (always the cheapest) and the only options were 30, 60, and 180 day set price payments.

 

Something isn't adding up here.....

I emailed them two hours ago, but no response as of yet.

[seeker630]

I can certainly understand your frustrations with the site, escorts have them as well! I love the layout and features of Rentboy, however in my particular area (Florida), M4RN seems to be much more "active" than Rentboy. RB will charge a higher fee based on the city while only allowing you to be listed in that one city whereas M4RN is definitely cheaper, allows you to be listed in many more cities, and allow escorts to get more "attention/hits" from clients.

 

I've discussed this alot with both escorts and clients and it comes down to the particular area that you/escorts are in. The south seems to field more from M4RN whereas other big cities in the north use RB much more.

 

Just my .02, though.

 

M4RN gets trashed here on regular basis - and the complaints seem valid. And yet - outside the largest cities, it seems to have more active ads than Rentboy or Rentmen.

 

Any ideas why?

[Kevin Slater]

M4RN gets trashed here on regular basis - and the complaints seem valid. And yet - outside the largest cities, it seems to have more active ads than Rentboy or Rentmen.

 

Any ideas why?

 

They have excellent placement in google searches. Type "male escort sites" and it's the first to come up. I assume they pay a pretty penny for this. That being said, I just tried a few searches with varied wording, and M4RN doesn't have a lock. Sometimes rentboy pops up first, sometimes some of the lesser sites.

 

Kevin Slater

[RockHard]

Porn site owners are notoriously cheap.

 

I assume they pay a pretty penny for this.

 

I don't think so. Paying for 1st page/top-5 placement may be necessary and helpful if there are 20 pages of competition with similar sites using the same spider metadata. Escort sites are quite limited in number. With fewer numbers, traffic will easily dictate first-page location on Google without paying an extra fee.

 

Also, if the page is cached in your system, it will often appear among the top five on the first page if you test a new search.

[JoeyBryant]

My only complaint is that they need to do some upgrades to the site. Personally I wish they would do away with that stupid "Wanted Now" bullshit, which might as well be called "The M4RN Coupon Clipper." The ONLY people I've ever seen post on there apparently think M4RN is fucking Priceline.com. It's not, and they're wasting their time by trying to get someone at 75% off. And the client review thing is worthless. Add a field as to WHY the client sucked or was stellar, please. And add a massage rate field while you're at it.

 

Oh, and I just sent an email requesting to bump down to a bronze listing, to see if they'll do it (which I'm sure they won't).

 

Update: they say you can only upgrade, not downgrade—and the "Bronze" tier is only available in "certain cities." The certain cities are apparently Bumfuck, Little Rock and Cheyenne—which have virtually no escorts as it is.

 

Riiight. Still, you have to pay money to make money, and lube and condoms and other accoutrements aren't free either (unless you shoplift, like myself).

 

LOL, you had me ROFL with this one! Might as well called the wanted list name your own price huh LOL. Progressive has jumped on the bandwagon already.

 

There's Bronze available where I live, but then again it's small in the scheme of things. I understand the pay money to make money concept, but dammit I'm paying hotels and advertising throughout the month - which both act as a Black hole just sucking income away from other bills that need to be paid - that our advertising budgets need a break. The webmasters owning these sites are making MILLIONS. Just think all the escorts across the WORLD putting ads up. Now, I don't know how much it costs them to run the site, and that I can't debate because there probably is a ton of overhead on their parts...but dammit, some of these sites are thinking us *****s are banking 6 figures and they want to steadily raise up rates.

 

And they fucking sit on their ass and put minimum effort into actually giving us as escorts input on how to get better. For example adam4adam. They raise their fee from $10 a month to $30. What changes has the site made for us? We still have to fuss with idiots, they don't put up any kind of advisory to other members about not BSing with the PROS on the site. I basically pay $30 to be hassled by people who have no intentions of paying. Only reason I deal with it is because despite it, there actually is some clients that come out of it!

[JoeyBryant]

LOL, you had me ROFL with this one! Might as well called the wanted list name your own price huh LOL. Progressive has jumped on the bandwagon already.

 

There's Bronze available where I live, but then again it's small in the scheme of things. I understand the pay money to make money concept, but dammit I'm paying hotels and advertising throughout the month - which both act as a Black hole just sucking income away from other bills that need to be paid - that our advertising budgets need a break. The webmasters owning these sites are making MILLIONS. Just think all the escorts across the WORLD putting ads up. Now, I don't know how much it costs them to run the site, and that I can't debate because there probably is a ton of overhead on their parts...but dammit, some of these sites are thinking us *****s are banking 6 figures and they want to steadily raise up rates.

 

And they fucking sit on their ass and put minimum effort into actually giving us as escorts input on how to get better. For example adam4adam. They raise their fee from $10 a month to $30. What changes has the site made for us? We still have to fuss with idiots, they don't put up any kind of advisory to other members about not BSing with the PROS on the site. I basically pay $30 to be hassled by people who have no intentions of paying. Only reason I deal with it is because despite it, there actually is some clients that come out of it!

 

 

don't like their new rates, don't pay em. simple and effective, no?

 

Sounds easy, but alas. Look, men4rent is a MONOPOLY in some areas (Not technically, but for lack of better word). Sure, some clients do know about rentboy even in the areas where men4rent seems king, but it's simply not as effective. That's what sucks. They've got us by the balls. It's like having 1 gas station in town. They can charge $6 a gallon because they know you need it.

 

I've tried other sites, but few have been as effective as men4rent (adam4adam and craigslist have at times been better as far as volume. Backpage just sucks.) Maybe their raising rates excuse of, "better promoting the site to get us more clients" is true. But at the same time, the steady raising of rates with no notice irritates me. They just raised rates last year. How much more are they going to do it?

 

The only way that would be a solution is if we ALL decided not to pay em. But some guys are just pigheaded and will continue to let these sites do it to us without voicing an opinion. I mean, do we not deserve some sort of explanation or reasoning or notice of a rate increase? Men4rent is like our boss, and a higher advertising budget is like a pay-cut. Best believe I'm going to fuss about it! My advertising on said site can end up being the most expensive bill: above my car insurance, cable/internet, cell phone with 2 lines and unlimited text/data and my electric bill? Come on now...Most of us guys aren't running corporations, we're in it alone. And probably paying 2-4 websites a month.

[Rod Hagen]

It absolutely drives me crazy that escorts have been unable to raise our rates for the last 12 years. There are very few other fields whose workers' salaries constipated at 1999 rates. Totally fucking sucks. My rent hasn't stagnated. My health insurance hasn't stagnated. And while I know my bills are not my client's responsibilities I know very few independent contractors who've been unable to raise their rates one ioata over the last decade. Only escorts. Even personal trainers and hair stylists, who don't fuck, charge more than 1999 rates.

[instudiocity]

It absolutely drives me crazy that escorts have been unable to raise our rates for the last 12 years. There are very few other fields whose workers' salaries constipated at 1999 rates. Totally fucking sucks. My rent hasn't stagnated. My health insurance hasn't stagnated. And while I know my bills are not my client's responsibilities I know very few independent contractors who've been unable to raise their rates one ioata over the last decade. Only escorts. Even personal trainers, who don't fuck, charge more than 1999 rates.

 

Well, from a client, I'm making less than I was in 1999 thanks to this rotten economy and the State of California's penchant for spending more than it takes in. We're talking 50% of my 1999 dollars this year.

[RockHard]

Two Americas?

 

I know very few independent contractors who've been unable to raise their rates one ioata over the last decade.

 

That's interesting. From my business perspective, rates have decreased all across the board, and I know many independent contractors in film and television production who are barely hanging on, if they have a job at all. Production is down and so are budgets. Consumption is down, too.

 

The magazine business alone dropped 40% in revenue since 2008. Can you imagine the independent contractors that arena employs? A 40% drop affects thousands of workers. I know many photographers and retouchers who not only dropped their rates but also lost their businesses because there wasn't enough work to support them. Law firms and Accounting firms are not spending on advertising anything near the rate they spent pre-2008. Ernst and Young cut their staff by almost 40%, and all those people had to cut their salaries dramatically to get work with other firms.

 

Even my NYC gym has dropped membership rates. I'm paying 20% less for a recent 2-year renewal than I paid in 2006.

 

So, sorry Rod, my reality speaks a much different truth from yours.

[MiamiLooker]

It absolutely drives me crazy that escorts have been unable to raise our rates for the last 12 years. There are very few other fields whose workers' salaries constipated at 1999 rates. Totally fucking sucks. My rent hasn't stagnated. My health insurance hasn't stagnated. And while I know my bills are not my client's responsibilities I know very few independent contractors who've been unable to raise their rates one ioata over the last decade. Only escorts. Even personal trainers and hair stylists, who don't fuck, charge more than 1999 rates.

 

What do you think is keeping you from raising your rate?

[JoeyBryant]

Even my NYC gym has dropped membership rates. I'm paying 20% less for a recent 2-year renewal than I paid in 2006.

 

So, sorry Rod, my reality speaks a much different truth from yours.

 

Yeah, but gyms franchise and get investors to keep them in business. And, if a gym like Bally Total Fitness closes down a shitload of stores from Kansas City (went there last week to find it totally abandoned) to Dallas and all over the country, of course they can afford to drop membership rates.

 

I was talking to a guy in Kansas City the other week who was telling me how he inspired to be a wedding photographer. He was telling me how a photographer friend of his had did a wedding photo shoot in Hawaii and the folks who hired her had also put her up in a separate hotel room and covered her air fare costs in addition to her rates.

 

Anyhow, the point is that the very essence of escort work relies heavily on things that tend to increase: gas for outcalls, hotels for incalls, apartments for incalls, condoms...that stuff doesn't tend to remain static. Hotel costs however, do tend to hold more steady though than rent.

 

But regardless of what the market does, one can still raise their own rates and get it. It's just about being in the right place. There are clients who are still willing to pay your rate and tip a $20-$100 on top of it. Screw the economy, if a guy decides that they need to raise rates a bit, even if it's temporary or just for traveling...do it. If it doesn't make a difference with 1 client, then surely 5 or 10 will.

[Kevin Slater]

Not to disagree totally with you, but non of the professionals you mentioned really have the overhead that escorts do. We really put in a lot. We have to pay our own advertising. Our own lodging. On top of all the supplies and our own bills.

 

Huh?? Exactly which other sole proprietors don't have to pay for their own advertising, supplies and bills? Clients should be paying our rent directly, on top of our three-digit hourly fee? And frankly, most trips we take are footed by a client. Escorting is probably the least capital intensive and most rewarding job I can think of.

 

We are free to set whatever rate we can get. Nothing is stopping you from trying a higher rate. I for one am very grateful to the generosity of my clients and very happy with my current profession.

 

Kevin Slater

[instudiocity]

Yeah, but gyms franchise and get investors to keep them in business. And, if a gym like Bally Total Fitness closes down a shitload of stores from Kansas City (went there last week to find it totally abandoned) to Dallas and all over the country, of course they can afford to drop membership rates.

You show me an investor that doesn't get a return on his investment and I'll show you an IDIOT! Seriously, investors don't buy stock to lose money, they buy it to MAKE MONEY!

 

Bally Total Fitness sold out to LA Fitness. They had to because the failed at the single most important thing a gym must do. UPDATE THEIR EQUIPMENT and LISTEN TO THEIR CLIENTS!

 

LA Fitness is a profitable organization that is 'restructuring' the Bally locations that are economically feasible - oh and the new rates? TRIPLE BTF rates.