A disturbing story

[leigh.bess.toad]

I was speaking with a very well known escort recently who told me something that I find totally disgusting and reprehensible. Has anyone ever approached you for something similar?

 

It seems my escort friend was talking with another of his friends who is also an escort. His friend told him that someone approached him. He told him that he had multiple personalities on the forum. If this client, in all of his personalities were willing to write reviews and promote the escort and vote in the EOY thread, would the escort be willing to give him a free overnight?

 

Has anyone ever approached you with this disgusting idea? If not, what would you say or do?

 

To any client who wants to respond, has any escort ever proposed a quid pro quo like this? Has an escort offered you a freebie because of promoting them, or referring clients to them?

[jjkrkwood]

I was speaking with a very well known escort recently who told me something that I find totally disgusting and reprehensible. Has anyone ever approached you for something similar?

 

It seems my escort friend was talking with another of his friends who is also an escort. His friend told him that someone approached him. He told him that he had multiple personalities on the forum. If this client, in all of his personalities were willing to write reviews and promote the escort and vote in the EOY thread, would the escort be willing to give him a free overnight?

 

Has anyone ever approached you with this disgusting idea? If not, what would you say or do?

 

To any client who wants to respond, has any escort ever proposed a quid pro quo like this? Has an escort offered you a freebie because of promoting them, or referring clients to them?

 

Lee, I can certainly understand your disgust with the idea, considering the close relationships you have with your escorts and your outlook on the business. But in reality, shady deals are a fact of life and are made in every business, and in every walk of life. There will always be people that do things "against the book"..or underhanded.. And there will always be people to enable those individuals.. As far as THIS thread is concerned, I can only speak to MY hiring experience, somewhat smaller in scale than most other members BUT there have been cases where I was asked NOT to write a review, or if I was to do so, the escort wanted approval before it was posted. But no concessions were ever offered for Reviews.

[EZEtoGRU]

Well Lee, I am not at all surprised that some individuals have multiple personalities on the board. I have believed this to be the case for some time. For me it's a sign of someone taking all of this way too seriously. Regarding the sleazy business offers, sad but not surprised. I however have never been asked to do such a think nor have I proposed it to someone I hire. Now I tend to hire freelance guys/ strippers rather than official escorts. The guys I hire are not even aware of this forum nor are they interested in participating.

[josephga]

I actually see nothing wrong with giving a client a freebee for say x amount of referrals once those referrals have booked and followed through.

[seeker630]

I actually see nothing wrong with giving a client a freebee for say x amount of referrals once those referrals have booked and followed through.

 

I don't think that's the same thing. What Lee is describing is more like a restaurant critic offering to write good reviews in return for free meals - and if he uses mutiple aliases, it really is fraudulent.

[jjkrkwood]

I don't think that's the same thing. What Lee is describing is more like a restaurant critic offering to write good reviews in return for free meals - and if he uses mutiple aliases, it really is fraudulent.

 

I think the multiple alias thing is the crux of the problem. Otherwise I see a single review request in exchange for sex as "One hand washing another", and if the review was gonna be good ANYWAY, whats the issue ? If the experience was Bad but the escort is "paying" to make the bad review go away, then YES it is fradulent, but no great harm done, as YOUR experience with the escort might be quite different anyway.

[leigh.bess.toad]

I actually see nothing wrong with giving a client a freebee for say x amount of referrals once those referrals have booked and followed through.

 

Joseph -- maybe it's me, I don't know. But I was talking with one of my guys last night about the subject of this thread. Now this is someone I have referred many people to, probably bringing the guy $10k+/year (at least). And I told him last night that if he EVER offered me so much as a free half an hour, not only would I not refer any more but I would stop seeing him myself. I refer to someone because I think they are a good provider who will be a good fit with the person I am referring. I try to take into account the ability of the provider and the tastes and desires of the person being referred. I don't refer someone to get something out of it.

[instudiocity]

Lee, in addressing both this thread and your other thread about EOY, I believe this is why Daddy's rules about EOY are setup the way they are. Even though someone can have multiple aliases they still have only one or maybe two MAC addresses and IP addresses they would use to log into the site. Daddy's server knows not only aliases but also IP addresses and possibly MAC addresses, too. Therefore, he can subtract out not only the multiple votes from one alias but also multiple votes from one IP address or MAC address. That's most likely why Daddy's math doesn't add up to the EOY thread. He's got knowledge we don't have about those votes.

 

Another funny thought is what happens if someone with multiple aliases gets a Time-Out? Does Daddy time out ALL THEIR ALIASES or just the one errant alias?

[josephga]

Joseph -- maybe it's me, I don't know. But I was talking with one of my guys last night about the subject of this thread. Now this is someone I have referred many people to, probably bringing the guy $10k+/year (at least). And I told him last night that if he EVER offered me so much as a free half an hour, not only would I not refer any more but I would stop seeing him myself. I refer to someone because I think they are a good provider who will be a good fit with the person I am referring. I try to take into account the ability of the provider and the tastes and desires of the person being referred. I don't refer someone to get something out of it.

 

 

Under those circumstances id see nothing wrong with you accepting a freebee. Even if it wasn't the intention of sending the escort the business for a freebee maybe the escort would like to show their gratitude. if one of my regulars sent me say 5 massage clients id have no issue offering them a freebee and I actually think most would accept it

[maxwellissmart]

I was speaking with a very well known escort recently who told me something that I find totally disgusting and reprehensible. Has anyone ever approached you for something similar?

 

It seems my escort friend was talking with another of his friends who is also an escort. His friend told him that someone approached him. He told him that he had multiple personalities on the forum. If this client, in all of his personalities were willing to write reviews and promote the escort and vote in the EOY thread, would the escort be willing to give him a free overnight?

 

Has anyone ever approached you with this disgusting idea? If not, what would you say or do?

 

To any client who wants to respond, has any escort ever proposed a quid pro quo like this? Has an escort offered you a freebie because of promoting them, or referring clients to them?

 

This is one of the reasons why I like to maintain my anonymity on this board. I don't use this forum as a means of advertising, I use it as a means of entertainment and occasionally, a means for knowledge. If my pics and blurb can't get me clients, then a few reviews aren't going to do the trick either.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Lee, in addressing both this thread and your other thread about EOY, I believe this is why Daddy's rules about EOY are setup the way they are. Even though someone can have multiple aliases they still have only one or maybe two MAC addresses and IP addresses they would use to log into the site. Daddy's server knows not only aliases but also IP addresses and possibly MAC addresses, too. Therefore, he can subtract out not only the multiple votes from one alias but also multiple votes from one IP address or MAC address. That's most likely why Daddy's math doesn't add up to the EOY thread. He's got knowledge we don't have about those votes.

 

Another funny thought is what happens if someone with multiple aliases gets a Time-Out? Does Daddy time out ALL THEIR ALIASES or just the one errant alias?

 

But ISC, in relation to the "Ames Straw Poll" thread, as I pointed out to deej, I personally know over half of the gentlemen who voted for Dave. I've met these men and know for a fact that they do not suffer from MPD. And a couple of others I have never met I remember explicitly the reviews the voters had written. One I remember a thread where the poster said that he was going to meet Dave for the first time based upon a couple of earlier threads. So of the 9 "non-newbies", I know 6 (well 5 -- how well can one know oneself?) I don't know the newbies but I would bet you a month of lunches at The Lobster that they are not one of the men that I know.

 

As far as what should be done with MPD? Personally, I think MPD accounts should be deleted. And then the offender should be sent off to a very nice quiet padded room where their Sybil syndromes can be appropriately treated.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Under those circumstances id see nothing wrong with you accepting a freebee. Even if it wasn't the intention of sending the escort the business for a freebee maybe the escort would like to show their gratitude. if one of my regulars sent me say 5 massage clients id have no issue offering them a freebee and I actually think most would accept it

 

Like I said Joseph, maybe it's me. I have a strict pre-conceived notion of the role of the client. For example, when I am out with an escort for dinner, even if off the clock as friends, I always pay. In fact, one time I was out with two escorts (after a fun filled 3 way) when one of the escort's friend joined us. This friend is also an escort whom I have never hired. But when the check came, I paid for all 3 of them, including the friend. When I am in the presence of an escort, be they mine or not, I'm paying for meals (so DC lunch clients, anyone want to help me out or I'm paying for 10 ). I have only deviated from this rule once when I let Dane and/or Ryaan buy me a soda at a bar we were at in Palm Springs.

 

To me a client has responsibilities. No freebies. And always paying for meals. No exceptions. Except for maybe a soda.

 

Maybe it's weird, but that's the way I think it should be done.

[Guest countryboywny]

To me a client has responsibilities. No freebies. And always paying for meals. No exceptions. Except for maybe a soda.

 

Maybe it's weird, but that's the way I think it should be done.

 

Brother Lee,

Is there any wonder why you and I understand each other so well? I will accept no freebies, ever.

[+ deej]

But ISC, in relation to the "Ames Straw Poll" thread, as I pointed out to deej, I personally know over half of the gentlemen who voted for Dave..

 

And I chose not to continue the discussion because you steadfastly refused to answer the questions I asked of you. You were obviously more interested in throwing some sort of hissy than having a discussion.

 

It's in two threads now.

 

Don't wake the Grinch.

[seeker630]

Like I said Joseph, maybe it's me. I have a strict pre-conceived notion of the role of the client. For example, when I am out with an escort for dinner, even if off the clock as friends, I always pay. In fact, one time I was out with two escorts (after a fun filled 3 way) when one of the escort's friend joined us. This friend is also an escort whom I have never hired. But when the check came, I paid for all 3 of them, including the friend. When I am in the presence of an escort, be they mine or not, I'm paying for meals (so DC lunch clients, anyone want to help me out or I'm paying for 10 ). I have only deviated from this rule once when I let Dane and/or Ryaan buy me a soda at a bar we were at in Palm Springs.

 

To me a client has responsibilities. No freebies. And always paying for meals. No exceptions. Except for maybe a soda.

 

Maybe it's weird, but that's the way I think it should be done.

 

Interesting. If you are always in 'client' mode, that seems to ensure that you and the escort will never be equals, in certain senses, and will certainly frame the nature of 'friendships'.

 

I am generally not comfortable with friendships where one is always the giver.

[leigh.bess.toad]

And I chose not to continue the discussion because you steadfastly refused to answer the questions I asked of you. You were obviously more interested in throwing some sort of hissy than having a discussion.

 

It's in two threads now.

 

Don't wake the Grinch.

 

I did answer how I accounted for multiple IDs, because I do know most of the gentlemen who voted personally. The fact that I know them and their personalities eliminated in my mind the possibilities of any ballot stuffing or people with MPD. And the thread was specifically about on-forum votes, not off-forum.

 

I was not having a hissy and I am ALWAYS open for a discussion. I was expressing my own personal belief that the process had been mis-portrayed. Am I not entitled to have my own opinion? If you do not feel that I adequately answered your question, please let me know and I shall attempt to answer further.

 

Have you EVER known me to be a bomb thrower? Am I not always trying to make this a nicer, more pleasant place to be. Am I not always trying to do things to bring the community together like organizing the DC luncheon? I guess that really doesn't matter then, so why should I bother in the future?

 

As far as the Grinch, I posted that thread with the full knowledge that he might be awakened and am ready to accept any of the consequences. As I have told more than a dozen people.

[adriano46]

In line with some said here - I (like others here) have moved from being a client to an escort to being something else. I would not call it "friend" because of the age differences, but mentor, advisor, counsellor? That is more like how the relationship has evolved.

 

To be frank, I hate when this happens because in most cases, it makes moving back into the paying client mode very awkward. Not always, but often.

 

There are some guys who I have known for some years, and we meet for meals, evenings out to the theatre, or some other adventures with no sex involved. He is "off the clock" and in a way so am I as the client. We often share expenses or go dutch. Now, for one or two of these guys, every now and then things develop that we may be traveling together or he is visitng me and is an overnight guest at my place, and while I ALWAYS have the guest room made up and ready (or in an hotel he gets his own separate room), he somehow is always in my bed for the night. No money is exchanged in the AM, but I always try to somehow make up that fee in some way (sometimes very creative ways).

 

I never fought off the escort's desire to spend the night in my bed - I was very flattered and in a way humbled by this.

[Diverdan]

Adriano,

Very well put. Many months ago, I replied in another thread about a change in a relationship from escort/client to friend/friend, sometimes with benefits and sometimes without benefits~! The change was initiated by the escort, after we had spent a lot of time together, and he had invited me to spend a weekend with him and his teenage son. I took that as a very high compliment, and as far as I know, the teenage son really enjoyed the weekend... and there was no sharing of beds or anything that might embarass the escort or his son. Most of the time, I picked up the tab when we were together, but there were some times when my friend/escort absolutely insisted in picking up the tab. I see no problem with evolving relationships as long it is mutually acceptable and everyone is on the same page. We spent time together over several years, mostly when I traveled to the city where he lived. Alas, we lost touch with one another after he stopped escorting when he got a great high paying job in another city, and his son moved with him, rather than staying with his mother. So, as I often say, there is no one right way, or no one answer to the situation. I do hope my friend Lee does not pick up the lunch tab for all at the DC events, as IMHO that is going to far with his position in these matters. Thanks, again, Adriano for your comments.

DD

[leigh.bess.toad]

Interesting. If you are always in 'client' mode, that seems to ensure that you and the escort will never be equals, in certain senses, and will certainly frame the nature of 'friendships'.

 

In many ways, as far as paying for meals and the like, I view it more like host-guest where I am the host and a guest doesn't pay.

 

Sharing the triumphs and problems in each others' lives is certainly a friendship to me. The start of a new romance, the end of another, starting a job, talking about family, talking about the future, and even just shooting the shit, yes that is what friends do. And who knows? Once I stop hiring (as I plan to do soon), I might even let them spring for a meal or two. The nature of friendships evolve over time. I am so new at this much of that evolution has not occurred. But I do know that my relations with these guys will continue after I stop hiring them, as it already has with several of the guys.

[leigh.bess.toad]

I do hope my friend Lee does not pick up the lunch tab for all at the DC events, as IMHO that is going to far with his position in these matters.

 

Well knowing the group of men there and the events of the 1st luncheon, it won't be an issue. At last year's lunch, after the check came and people pitched in money, we realized we had a lot of money. Like if we'd have left it all the waiter would have gotten like a 70 or 80% tip. With the men who were there, and who will all be returning, in many ways, it was more problematic getting people to take money out of the pot than to put it in. Those are the men, those are the friends that await at the DC luncheon.

[seeker630]

In many ways, as far as paying for meals and the like, I view it more like host-guest where I am the host and a guest doesn't pay.

 

Sharing the triumphs and problems in each others' lives is certainly a friendship to me. The start of a new romance, the end of another, starting a job, talking about family, talking about the future, and even just shooting the shit, yes that is what friends do. And who knows? Once I stop hiring (as I plan to do soon), I might even let them spring for a meal or two. The nature of friendships evolve over time. I am so new at this much of that evolution has not occurred. But I do know that my relations with these guys will continue after I stop hiring them, as it already has with several of the guys.

 

Money always complicates friendships, it seems to me. And we all have different definitions & different types of friendships. As long as both people are comfortable with the arrangements, that's all that really matters.

 

You are very fortunate, Lee, in your relationships - and I'm sure that's due in large part to who you are as a person.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

Joseph -- maybe it's me, I don't know. But I was talking with one of my guys last night about the subject of this thread. Now this is someone I have referred many people to, probably bringing the guy $10k+/year (at least). And I told him last night that if he EVER offered me so much as a free half an hour, not only would I not refer any more but I would stop seeing him myself. I refer to someone because I think they are a good provider who will be a good fit with the person I am referring. I try to take into account the ability of the provider and the tastes and desires of the person being referred. I don't refer someone to get something out of it.

 

Lee - I think you are overthinking it. In your example, you have referred friends/acquaintances to the escort because you believe that the escort will provide a service that will be appreciated without expectation of something in return.

 

It is no different than my neighbor who selectively refers her cleaning lady to her friends that are looking for someone. During the holidays, the cleaning lady gave my neighbor a gift (a simply holiday candle) to thank her for all of the referrals. When my neighbor indicated that it was not necessary, the cleaning lady was offended that her guesture was not appreciated.

 

Unsolicited acts of kindness need to be accepted.

[rvwnsd]

...Has anyone ever approached you with this disgusting idea? If not, what would you say or do?

 

To any client who wants to respond, has any escort ever proposed a quid pro quo like this? Has an escort offered you a freebie because of promoting them, or referring clients to them?

 

For starters, I think "disgusting" is too strong of a word to describe this scenario. I think dishonest, disrespectful, and disturbing are all perfectly applicable "dis" words. I have not been asked such a thing nor would I accept a free appointment in return for stuffing the ballot box, as it were. On the other hand, if a guy offered me a free session because I referred other clients to him, I would accept without hesitation. Businesses offer referral bonuses all the time. I would not, however, ask for a free session in return for referring clients. I think that is wrong.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Lee - I think you are overthinking it. In your example, you have referred friends/acquaintances to the escort because you believe that the escort will provide a service that will be appreciated without expectation of something in return.

 

It is no different than my neighbor who selectively refers her cleaning lady to her friends that are looking for someone. During the holidays, the cleaning lady gave my neighbor a gift (a simply holiday candle) to thank her for all of the referrals. When my neighbor indicated that it was not necessary, the cleaning lady was offended that her guesture was not appreciated.

 

Unsolicited acts of kindness need to be accepted.

 

I guess to me, the offer of a free session is just a bridge too far. A small thank you gift would certainly not be turned down: a nice bottle of wine, a fun sex toy we can play with in our sessions, etc. But the offer of a free session is too close to a quid pro quo for me to be comfortable with: refer clients, get free sex. I don't refer people to guys I think would be a good match expecting anything in return. As Dave asked me as we walked to the first DC luncheon "You like putting guys together, don't you?" I do enjoy putting friends together that I think would enjoy each others' company.

[jgoo]

It's all about where one draws the line. In Lee's case it is at a soda, well also maybe a small gift, being acceptable but not a free session. To others, that line is drawn such that the free session would be totally acceptable. Assuming no coercion is involved, I think it is acceptable for anything an escort might want to offer of his own free volition. The waters become muddy when we start considering escorts as friends, which they may in fact be, but the sex and the money certainly make things more complicated on where to draw that line of what may be acceptable for gifts, including freebies. As someone else said, as long as both parties are comfortable with things then all is good.