I'm getting to the point that I am losing interest in traveling...It seems too risky.

[JoeyBryant]

It's been a while since I've had an industry rant, but I think for 2011 I'm about due...

 

Over the long run you are better off not asking for a deposit. You are correct in that the round trip ticket is the deposit for a travel overnight but for a local client or even in a travel city asking for a deposit of any kind opens a can of worms you don't want to open. It tells the new client that you do not trust him. Most clients are c.e.o.s, doctors, business owners, etc. and it will benefit you if you want them as a regular to trust them.

 

I am quoting this post from fellow Mikey in a previous thread, not to pick on him...but to use his quote because I do feel that some (many)...maybe even most clients feel the way he described. But I don't see that idea being mutual beneficial.

 

Today's scenario: I planned over a week ago to meet with a client whom I previously met with in my city, in his city. Close to 700 miles. However, it's a multi-city tour so although it wasn't specifically to come here, he was on schedule and I therefore adjusted my schedule accordingly.

 

Well everything is fine up until this morning. When my bags were already packed. And I'd already woken up WELL before my normal time. I get a 'not sure about my day because of this that and the other. Tomorrow will be better. Fine I think to myself. But I had already set my schedule for the next 3 days so I couldn't adjust our appointment to tomorrow. I'd be pushing back other clients and other non-escort plans as well. Not to mention, I declined an appointment for today at home because I'd planned to meet with the client today in another city.

 

Well, once I arrive in town...I get the dreaded "I'll have to pass because this, that and the other" text message.

 

The reason why I have become so adamant about deposits is because of these type of reasons. It seems like some people, even if they are serious and genuine and sincere...have things come up, and they can't for whatever reason make the appointment. For them, it's a hot guy coming from out of town who they'd like to get with IF everything falls into place perfectly on their schedule. But they don't take into consideration the effort that goes into doing all this traveling.

 

That same client, I requested a deposit from after his request to meet a week before I arrived. And I gave a detailed reason why. He didn't reply to the email. Which I seen as suspicious, even though we met before. It told me that he knew he couldn't commit. But after reading Mikey's post in the archives, I decided to offer an appointment without a deposit. And to my regrets. Usually people who 'disappear' from the request of a deposit is generally not able to commit to anything to begin with.

 

Now, over the past few months I have presented the preference for a deposit to quite a few clients. Some have no qualms about it and will send. Others don't want to do it for whatever reason, but then re-affirm their sincerity. That I can usually understand and each time they've kept their commitment.

 

So where does one draw the line? Now, I'm not talking about overnights for 1 client. That's generally not an issue. I'm referring to plain old visiting a place. Usually when I visit someplace I make sure to have other interest and gigs lined up, but the main reason is to meet new or existing clients.

 

I'm not saying all of my trips are unsuccessful. That's not the reason. My issue is the frustration involved with the indecisiveness of clients. I wish I could travel somewhere, know that every client who made firm plans will show up and won't cancel or postpone last minute because of something neither trivial or serious. I don't like having to sit and scrutinize appointments in other cities. Should I go today? If I postpone us til tomorrow, will he actually make it? Should I schedule this client or that client?

 

I can deal with that stuff at home, but when I'm traveling it sucks to have to go someplace, especially by plane (driving sucks just as much), get a nice hotel and then the person I've been communicating with for a week bails. I just feel that if I'm traveling, I deserve a better guarantee for all this. And it's not like the deposits I ask for is exorbitant. These are generally small amounts. But some people are so worried about getting scammed.

 

Let me ask you this, who's taking the bigger risk? You sending me a portion of my fee from practically a computer? Or me going hundreds of miles, paying for a hotel, and then have you come up with some excuse why you can't make it? Even if I have 5 other clients scheduled, missing that 1 appointment is costing me minimum $200.

 

What's the answer for all this madness? Seems like I'd be more comfortable at my own home, doing the daily routine and letting clients come to my city. And if any traveling is involved, will be evenings or overnights with a pre-paid deposit.

[jjkrkwood]

It's been a while since I've had an industry rant, but I think for 2011 I'm about due...

 

 

 

I am quoting this post from fellow Mikey in a previous thread, not to pick on him...but to use his quote because I do feel that some (many)...maybe even most clients feel the way he described. But I don't see that idea being mutual beneficial.

 

Today's scenario: I planned over a week ago to meet with a client whom I previously met with in my city, in his city. Close to 700 miles. However, it's a multi-city tour so although it wasn't specifically to come here, he was on schedule and I therefore adjusted my schedule accordingly.

 

Well everything is fine up until this morning. When my bags were already packed. And I'd already woken up WELL before my normal time. I get a 'not sure about my day because of this that and the other. Tomorrow will be better. Fine I think to myself. But I had already set my schedule for the next 3 days so I couldn't adjust our appointment to tomorrow. I'd be pushing back other clients and other non-escort plans as well. Not to mention, I declined an appointment for today at home because I'd planned to meet with the client today in another city.

 

Well, once I arrive in town...I get the dreaded "I'll have to pass because this, that and the other" text message.

 

The reason why I have become so adamant about deposits is because of these type of reasons. It seems like some people, even if they are serious and genuine and sincere...have things come up, and they can't for whatever reason make the appointment. For them, it's a hot guy coming from out of town who they'd like to get with IF everything falls into place perfectly on their schedule. But they don't take into consideration the effort that goes into doing all this traveling.

 

That same client, I requested a deposit from after his request to meet a week before I arrived. And I gave a detailed reason why. He didn't reply to the email. Which I seen as suspicious, even though we met before. It told me that he knew he couldn't commit. But after reading Mikey's post in the archives, I decided to offer an appointment without a deposit. And to my regrets. Usually people who 'disappear' from the request of a deposit is generally not able to commit to anything to begin with.

 

Now, over the past few months I have presented the preference for a deposit to quite a few clients. Some have no qualms about it and will send. Others don't want to do it for whatever reason, but then re-affirm their sincerity. That I can usually understand and each time they've kept their commitment.

 

So where does one draw the line? Now, I'm not talking about overnights for 1 client. That's generally not an issue. I'm referring to plain old visiting a place. Usually when I visit someplace I make sure to have other interest and gigs lined up, but the main reason is to meet new or existing clients.

 

I'm not saying all of my trips are unsuccessful. That's not the reason. My issue is the frustration involved with the indecisiveness of clients. I wish I could travel somewhere, know that every client who made firm plans will show up and won't cancel or postpone last minute because of something neither trivial or serious. I don't like having to sit and scrutinize appointments in other cities. Should I go today? If I postpone us til tomorrow, will he actually make it? Should I schedule this client or that client?

 

I can deal with that stuff at home, but when I'm traveling it sucks to have to go someplace, especially by plane (driving sucks just as much), get a nice hotel and then the person I've been communicating with for a week bails. I just feel that if I'm traveling, I deserve a better guarantee for all this. And it's not like the deposits I ask for is exorbitant. These are generally small amounts. But some people are so worried about getting scammed.

 

Let me ask you this, who's taking the bigger risk? You sending me a portion of my fee from practically a computer? Or me going hundreds of miles, paying for a hotel, and then have you come up with some excuse why you can't make it? Even if I have 5 other clients scheduled, missing that 1 appointment is costing me minimum $200.

 

What's the answer for all this madness? Seems like I'd be more comfortable at my own home, doing the daily routine and letting clients come to my city. And if any traveling is involved, will be evenings or overnights with a pre-paid deposit.

 

Wow, and I thought worrying about my sick days and medical insurance on my job was a pain in the ass !

[Decatur Guy]

There's inherent risk on both sides of the traveling relationship. I'd never pay for an escort to fly to me* because of the horror stories I've read on here about clients buying tickets and then the escorts simply don't show up -- no explanation (or a lousy one). And then there's just the huge delay risks in general these days with airline flights that are out of the control of client and escort.

 

If I ever get to the point that there's flying involved, I will be the one doing the flying to the escort. If the escort bails, at least I am "on vacation" and maybe could even hire a different escort if it's somewhere like NYC or South Florida or California, etc.

 

I'm thinking of taking a trip to NYC this fall with that in mind -- in part to see an escort I've had my mind on a long time, but in case that falls apart at the last minute, I'm in NYC and have a very high degree of likelihood of finding a back-up. And I'm in a place that I enjoy, so even if the back-up fails and I don't hire anyone at all, I've still had a great trip. I'd much rather do that than fly someone in, he's a no-show and then I'm out that money AND stuck in my own town.

 

I can't think of a system that minimizes the risks for both parties. Someone is going to either be at financial risk or time risk (which is really financial risk of different sort) if the other party bails.

 

This is also the reason while I'll call a traveling escort for day-of or next-day appointments -- the possibility his calendar is suddenly free.

 

* The only way I'd make an exception to that is flying in an escort I'd already seen several times and built up a trust level with. And even then, I'd have to be in a whole different financial situation than I am now.

[josephga]

People don't realize it's a business time is money. People not showing up. changing appointment dates cost money. this guy contacted me a few weeks ago booked then 30 minutes later said work called. i got the feeling he was just scared never getting a massage b4. then the very next morning he calls says he is so nervous wants a massage but so scared.. get this. he said if he could come over hang out feel comfortable being nude around me then he might book a massage. I texted him back and told him to move on that my services are for the paying client. I'm not jumping through hoops to sell a 75.00 to 100 massage.

[jimboivyo]

I only know what I've been told by other guys I see. Why not build a base of clients who are willing to fly you to them? there are a ton of johns out there who have the money and time to do it. your best bet is to ignore people who keep you in that hourly bracket and focus on climbing up the ladder.

[cany10011]

In nyc, there's really no compelling reason to fly in someone (unless they are extra special or for a special function/occassion) as there are more than 400 willing escorts on rentboy. There was a Toronto escort (his name escapes me, but I met him online) a while back who would travel to nyc on his own dime and offered fairly reasonable rates for overnights (600) as he considered that the client was already being generous by paying for his 250$ plus hotel room.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

After doing this for several years, and advertising in several of the major US cities while 'on tour', I find it's VERY easy to still remain profitable and cover all expenses when you're visiting cities that you're a 'hit' in.

 

My 'best' list- Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC, LA, Vegas.

Worst- Pittsburgh, Phoenix, San Francisco, NYC.

 

Now, if you're from one of these 'worst' areas- don't take it as an insult. I meant..in general...as far as accessability, # of clients, cheapness of travel, etc. San Fran and NYC- you'll get a ton of calls...but the cost of being there is so abhorrently expensive...that why the hell would you want to embrace all the risk, when you could go somewhere cheaper on a 'working vacation', see less clients to make the same bottom line...and finally have some time for YOU on a vacation?

 

Just my two cents. Also, I find that smaller cities...(like I plan on trying out KC)...if you come into town and you've got a good reputation...your phone will be RINNNNNGGGGING.

 

As far as deposits go...I never take deposits...then again, I don't specifically chase guys looking to fly just YOU in...I'd rather have clients who just wait till you come to town on your own dime. Less 'pressure', less involved in it...after all.

[jjkrkwood]

God this all sounds so convuluted and complicated. the planning, the travel, the arrangements, when the situation is actually so simple. The client is horny, he picks up the phone, calls the escort and tells him to come over, they fuck and suck for an hour, blow their loads and good nite.. Why turn such a simple scenario into a soap opera? Maybe I just dont get it, but I just want to get off quickly, not plan an encounter for weeks and sit and wait with anticipation. Thats just such a dick-deflator.....

[Guest Merlin]

As a client, asking an escort to travel to me, I would expect to pay the travel and a deposit. I think a 1/3 deposit is appropriate. That is enough to protect the escort, and more than 1/3 provides a temptation for the escort to no show. If a client is not willing to pay some deposit, he is not worth the risk.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

Well, then you as a client are a DREAM- the fact that you're so willing to go the extra mile, to retain the guys that you really respect and are attracted to. I'm sure you only deal with the top shelf guys- because in my estimation...the vast majority aren't worth even sending a deposit to! And I run into other guys in my field, all the time! I can safely say that I have more faith in my CLIENTS then in some other escorts...only twice have I had a situation where I've been 'stood up', so to speak...and that's exactly the reason why I never hinge all my eggs in one basket...counting on one or two things in a given area...instead, you diversify...that way a trip is guranteed to never fail. Again, my two cents...maybe that's why I only have the two pennies!

[jjkrkwood]

Well, then you as a client are a DREAM- the fact that you're so willing to go the extra mile, to retain the guys that you really respect and are attracted to. I'm sure you only deal with the top shelf guys- because in my estimation...the vast majority aren't worth even sending a deposit to! And I run into other guys in my field, all the time! I can safely say that I have more faith in my CLIENTS then in some other escorts...only twice have I had a situation where I've been 'stood up', so to speak...and that's exactly the reason why I never hinge all my eggs in one basket...counting on one or two things in a given area...instead, you diversify...that way a trip is guranteed to never fail. Again, my two cents...maybe that's why I only have the two pennies!

 

I never settle for a single basket either Tristan. I am a big boy, and it takes several "baskets" to make me happy.

[rossthebosssf]

Sounds like there's a need for an Escort escrow service.

[bigvalboy]

An 'Escort escrow service'... Sounds good! except I think you see where this thing might go. Next both escort and client will need representation like an "escort agent" each could negotiate the terms on any and all contracts and handle the deposits as well, of course then both would have to pass an inspection of sorts both to assure physical, and health worthiness and to assure the client the escort was as promised, and the location to make sure it was to each persons liking, like a escort or client home or hotel inspection. OMG, will someone please slap me back to reality.

[JoeyBryant]

I only know what I've been told by other guys I see. Why not build a base of clients who are willing to fly you to them? there are a ton of johns out there who have the money and time to do it. your best bet is to ignore people who keep you in that hourly bracket and focus on climbing up the ladder.

 

Because that doesn't happen overnight. Sometimes I have to travel within 2 or 3 weeks. Waiting for a client to fly me in, or like Tristin said "chasing clients who want to fly me in" isn't my style LOL. In addition, I actually do not prefer to be flown out to clients. There was 1 time a client flew me out to him, and it wasn't worth it. He wanted to monopolize all my time. The airfare pretty much cut into my payment, he wanted to negotiate. He couldn't afford an overnight, but since he flew me out he felt entitled. Lots of clients like to negotiate when they are paying airfare. Atleast the ones I've come across.

 

I still rather go places on my own dime, but I prefer that each client put in a small deposit of sorts to confirm it. Now, whether or not that will work or not is a different story. I'm just going to have to start suggesting it for now on and see how it works. Give them my account number so they can deposit cash, no paypal BS. Sometimes, I may not even need a deposit. Just the mere bringing up the subject of a deposit and judging their response may be good enough. If they bail, they aren't serious about it. You can't be willing to see me that bad if you just disappear at the mention of a few dollars.

 

I mean think of it: I don't know any professional in other fields (except musicians, bands, etc.) who would be willing to travel someplace and not know if they are going to get paid for their travel. And I bet even musicians with entourages get some kind of payment upfront before they travel.

[JoeyBryant]

As much as I get concerned over the risks, it's equally tempting! The very next day in my next city, everyone who previously scheduled; showed up. I was happy that things worked out.

 

Another reason why I travel as well, is to expand my horizons. Just in this last visit, I've been offered to accompany a client to NYC next month, and may just be getting a new review soon. Or maybe I'll visit them and then next time they are in my town, they'll book me.

 

After doing this for several years, and advertising in several of the major US cities while 'on tour', I find it's VERY easy to still remain profitable and cover all expenses when you're visiting cities that you're a 'hit' in.

 

My 'best' list- Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC, LA, Vegas.

Worst- Pittsburgh, Phoenix, San Francisco, NYC.

 

Now, if you're from one of these 'worst' areas- don't take it as an insult. I meant..in general...as far as accessability, # of clients, cheapness of travel, etc. San Fran and NYC- you'll get a ton of calls...but the cost of being there is so abhorrently expensive...that why the hell would you want to embrace all the risk, when you could go somewhere cheaper on a 'working vacation', see less clients to make the same bottom line...and finally have some time for YOU on a vacation?

 

Just my two cents. Also, I find that smaller cities...(like I plan on trying out KC)...if you come into town and you've got a good reputation...your phone will be RINNNNNGGGGING.

 

As far as deposits go...I never take deposits...then again, I don't specifically chase guys looking to fly just YOU in...I'd rather have clients who just wait till you come to town on your own dime. Less 'pressure', less involved in it...after all.

 

Good points. I was always afraid of going to NYC because when I look at those hotel prices, there's just no way. I'd have to come up with about $400-600 just in hotels pre-paid. Money that I could be spending on home decorating LOL.

 

Surprisingly the only cities I've been to on your 'list' are Dallas and Vegas. I still have clients in Dallas...Vegas didn't prove worth my trip. Oh yeah I forgot Chicago...forget it LOL. Yesterday a client told me that at one point escorts were setting up in hotels and robbing clients. So when I went back in 2009 with fewer reviews I didn't get anything. But even still I wouldn't risk it. Great clients from there though. But they have to come to where I am.

 

I don't do very big cities though. After 3 years of traveling, I have come up with a formula that almost always guarantees success. It's kind of racially biased, but before I knew about the 'rule', I was going places and then wondering why I wasn't making much money. Now, I know just where to go and even though it's risky, I'm almost guaranteed to be successful.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

I completely forgot Chicago! Great city as well. Add Denver to my list of worst cities, as well. AWFUL. Cars, Hotels, Airfare---> Brutally expensive. Just not the right formula for escorting, unless you have a travel companion. When I used to travel with another escort and split travel costs- BOOM. there was no city we couldn't touch. Exponentially cheaper.

[JoeyBryant]

I completely forgot Chicago! Great city as well. Add Denver to my list of worst cities, as well. AWFUL. Cars, Hotels, Airfare---> Brutally expensive. Just not the right formula for escorting, unless you have a travel companion. When I used to travel with another escort and split travel costs- BOOM. there was no city we couldn't touch. Exponentially cheaper.

 

You've got to be kidding me? You must have went during a conference or event. Hotels in Denver were priced fair enough that I was able to practically live in them for 3 months until I found a place. Las Vegas is cheap but then for a $29 hotel they want you to drop $200 deposit. Talk about bait and switch.

 

Right now I'm in Minneapolis, everything is booked and expensive. There's 2 events going on that I didn't find out until I got here. I knew these 2 days looked limited, but almost as soon as I got here things got REALLY limited. Prices and availability are changing literally every 30 minutes. It's insane. And at this point I haven't even gotten any requests for visitors, all locals.

 

I have a new rule to add to my rules of traveling on my blog: NEVER, EVER, EVER EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVER visit a place during any kind of convention or happening period. This is the 3rd time I've gotten stung like this and couldn't find a hotel (well atleast not a very nice hotel for cheap). Houston, Seattle and now here. Oh and Miami when I visited my X years ago. Went to South Beach and low and behold...everything was booked but the crappiest place. But atleast I'm having a better time than the other 2 LOL.

 

Thing is, it's hard to find out if this conventions are happening. Unless it's something huge and on the news...a lot of these are just select events going on. I'm asking the hotels what's going on, they can barely give me an answer. They seem just as clueless.

[JoeyBryant]

Adding to Tristin's response, I guess it's true everyone is going to have a different experience visiting places.

 

That's why nowadays, I no longer ask people "so how's things in..." I've been lead astray too many times. Only way to tell is just stick with my formula, and then see for myself.

 

I remember last year I asked 2 or 3 people about Indianapolis. They told me, "yeah it's great I love it...you'll have a great time and lot's of business". I got out there and had about 9 clients cancel out on me. Just thinking about it makes my stomach churn LOL. And I knew it wasn't me because I ended up going to another city and getting a client in literally less than 1 hour. And then 4 more after that.

 

After that, I was like no more asking people what works for them. Because it damn sure may not work for me. And that's if they even telling the truth.

[+ Travis69]

Aren't conventions good for business? Men away from their families or partners or singles in a new city and able to play??

[JoeyBryant]

Aren't conventions good for business? Men away from their families or partners or singles in a new city and able to play??

 

Yes and no. It's okay when I'm at home and don't have to pay double or full-price for a hotel because priceline/hotwire can't negotiate with them because they expect full occupancy. It also depends on what type of convention. Or if a specific client plans in advance specifically to meet with me while they are at said convention.

 

For example, there was a work convention while I was home last week. Worked great. But when you're talking about women's basketball playoffs, games and all that nonsense you've just got a bunch of fans piling into town taking up all the available hotels in the area. And they're not really in the position to see anyone.

[+ tristanbaldwin]

Indianapolis is always strong on calls, but short on people who actually follow through. Furthermore, they don't do incall for whatever reason. That seems to be an outcall-heavy area. It's weird, how geographically, it can vary so much.

[JoeyBryant]

Well, at this point I guess I won't be throwing the suitcase in the basement afterall LOL. Anyone who knows me well enough knows I can't stay in 1 place for too long. Even after my horrific accident in Washington State back in June, I went on 3 more trips afterwards. Especially since I had a free rental for a couple weeks after it was all said and done. What was I supposed to do, just stay home LOL?

 

1st day away home sick can be a bitch though...

 

Indianapolis is always strong on calls, but short on people who actually follow through. Furthermore, they don't do incall for whatever reason. That seems to be an outcall-heavy area. It's weird, how geographically, it can vary so much.

 

outcall as in, wanting the escorts to go to them? All I know is I wasted a hell of a lot of time going out there. But after that and St. Louis, I learned a valuable lesson: stay the f*ck away from rust belt areas. You couldn't pay me to go back there.

[Michael Wayne]

different strokes for different folks. Just completed 9 days in Atlanta (my best travel city). Had 25 clients over 9 days with zero cancellations. did not ask for one cent of deposit from any of them. All sessions went well and 12 of them have already re-booked for my next visit to atl in late october. Certain cities just have alot of class and Atlanta is one of them. One thing about deposits is that in the rare instance you as the escort have to cancel you have to return the deposit which is a pain in the ass. Good luck Joey, you are class all the way!

[JoeyBryant]

different strokes for different folks. Just completed 9 days in Atlanta (my best travel city). Had 25 clients over 9 days with zero cancellations. did not ask for one cent of deposit from any of them. All sessions went well and 12 of them have already re-booked for my next visit to atl in late october. Certain cities just have alot of class and Atlanta is one of them. One thing about deposits is that in the rare instance you as the escort have to cancel you have to return the deposit which is a pain in the ass. Good luck Joey, you are class all the way!

 

Thanks Mikey!

 

Yeah results may vary when going places. That's why it's hard to really 'recommend' another escort to go someplace even if one person had success. I've made lots of mistakes (going to Atlanta was one of them LOL) before I realized what works best.

[Michael Wayne]

seems to me like you would do well in atlanta. the clients I have met there are so nice. but, then again, I thought I would do well in Houston. Touring is like gambling- sometimes you win big and sometimes you lose hard. I am not saying houston wasn't a success but, when compared to atlanta, it was not. Part of it has to do with the level of local competition. I try now to target cities that don't have alot of HOT local guys. Houston is well-served and, sadly, atl. is not once you subtract the drug dealers and drug addicts from the mix.