One more question about CL and then going semi Pro....

[Guynextdoor32]

Ok, so here is the deal. I started doing this escort thing doing massage on CL. I was just doing it on the side, no big deal, earning "ok" money.

 

I did discover this Board and I will say you guys are not big fans of CL. I have really enjoyed reading it and it has given me more insight than you know.

 

Well, after 2 months of posting on CL and doing well with my business, I have decided to go "pro" and start paying for ads on M4RN and Rentmen.com. I also started getting a client base from my CL ads. So I thought why not just pay for an ad and charge more and see what I can do. As you can see from my last thread I have done well....I hope it keeps going.

 

I'm not a super stud. I'm a nice normal boyfriend kinda dude. I have hair on my chest and I don't have a ripped body but I take good care of myself. I'm a nice guy and I think just being a nice guy can go a LONG way in this field.

 

So like I said, I have seen the same guys from my CL ad for months now. I don't want to dump them but I think it's more than fair to raise my rate. How do I do it? I see some of these guys weekly. If I up my rate to my M4RN rate it would make a huge bump in my monthly income.

 

Help....how do I do it....how should I say it....should I tell them via e-mail....should I say look at M4RN and book via the site....would that give them a hint that they need pay me more?

 

I know they have the $$ to afford it....they like the time and I enjoy them....I just to want ensure I'm getting the top rate I can.....

 

Advice??

[corndog]

However you do it, if you raise your rate you stand a substantial chance of losing these clients. Unless your schedule is full, you're probably better off keeping these regulars at the lower rate than losing them. Once your bookings are steady with the higher rate clients, and you feel like you're missing higher rate opportunities because of scheduling conflicts with low rate clients, you can increase your rates, but plan on losing some of them.

[nate_sf]

Hey Guynextdoor,

 

Welcome to The Forum! I too got my start on craigslist and then migrated to the paid pro sites. I think the reason a lot of guys here don't like craigslist is from experience with flakey, unprofessional guys. Plus these days it's not really clear where or whether you're supposed to be offering erotic services on craigslist at all, so ends up being more trouble than it's worth. M4RN, Rentmen and Rentboy have a more straightforward purpose and - at least in theory - more professional offerings.

 

I'd be interested to hear what other escorts do, but for long-term clients who I met when my rates were lower I often offer to extend the lower rates. Especially if it is someone I like and where the difference is not significant in the greater scheme of things. Some will take you up on it, others will meet your new rates, and others will disappear for whatever reasons.

 

However I would not be too subtle about it. Having them look at the new ads and figure out your rates have gone up is a bit too subtle in my opinion. They may or may not actually go look at the new ads, so you won't know and don't want to risk embarrassment if they don't see the new rates. Professionals raise their rates all the time (think of your barber telling you "next month we're raising our haircut rates by $10") so you just need to be clear about it. If you decide to extend your old rates to your current regulars, let them know about the new rates but that you're holding your old rates for them, otherwise they might see the new ads, be scared off and stop calling.

 

If you're not a super stud but take care of yourself and are a nice guy, it will serve you well in the field and you should promote that. Being professional, showing up on time, and being a nice guy go a long way. There are plenty of examples of super studs who are assholes and flakes, so you're offering an alternative to that and will find there is a market. And as I've fortunately discovered, there is a market for guys with hair on their chests. ;-)

 

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Guynextdoor32]

Thanks for the reply Nate!! Great advice. I will keep you posted! Still not sure what to do.....

[Guest Connoisseur]

Welcome from another Newbie! As one business guy to another I suggest you talk directly to your current clients about increases (as opposed to hoping they learn by looking at your ad or through an email) and consider raising them after you are comfortable with the income stream from new clients in case you lose some of the old. Just one guys opinion of course, but as a client I'd view that as more personable. Another option is that you might consider telling current clients you need to raise your rates in the future for them and could be surprised that some will offer to pay the higher rate now because they like you and you're so much fun for them to spend time with (you get to keep them and they pay you more now).

[jackcali]

Hi, Guynextdoor, I just posted a magnum opus on your other thread, but here I've got a quick answer. I hire from craigslist, and I think that I would be put off if an escort I had a good relationship with me just announced a higher rate because he put up an add on rentboy or somewhere else. I think that you should raise your rate in stages. I think that you should tell your current clients that you're putting up the ad and that you'll be asking for a higher rate, but that you want to keep their business and will keep the old pricing for them. Some clients will volunteer to pay the new rate immediately. All will be appreciative that you offered to keep your rate the same. IF (and this is a big if) your 'pro' ad starts generating enough business at the higher rate, then you can go to the guys who are still paying you the lower rate and tell them that you'd like to keep seeing them but that it's just bad business for you to turn down better-paying work to see them. At that point, the client who was paying the lower rate can't 'blame' you for raising your prices, and he can decide then whether he wants to pay more or stop seeing you. You may still lose clients, but I think this approach will minimize the number you lose.

 

Good luck.

[down_to_business]

My advice would be to think long and hard before you act.

 

I am trying to think from a client perspective and really can't imagine any situation where I would stay with a service provider in this situation. Possibly an email saying that I have raised my rate to Y but I will stil see my reguars at X+N.. but even that woud be unlikely. I mean I just changed insurance companies even though they have been great because they raised my rates.

 

I think the advice for you to proceed slowly before risking losing your craigslist customers.. by making sure your rentboy etc higher paying customers make up for it.. is some real good advice.

 

I am not saying you shouldn't do this, but be aware that just because you want to reposition your branding, doesn't mean your old customers will want to move with you.

[Poolboy21409]

Make sure you post here with a link to your new ads on the "pro" sites.

[imrthr]

 

My advice would be to think long and hard before you act.

 

I am trying to think from a client perspective and really can't imagine any situation where I would stay with a service provider in this situation. Possibly an email saying that I have raised my rate to Y but I will still see my regulars at X+N.. but even that would be unlikely. I mean I just changed insurance companies even though they have been great because they raised my rates.

 

I think the advice for you to proceed slowly before risking losing your craig's list customers.. by making sure your rent

boy etc higher paying customers make up for it.. is some real good advice.

 

I am not saying you shouldn't do this, but be aware that just because you want to reposition your branding, doesn't mean your old customers will want to move with you.

 

 

This is a good response. However, one critical item is missing -

 

The economy is in the tank. Raising rates on existing clients in this current economical crisis could cause a loss of more former clients than you could imagine.

-

[rvwnsd]

I think you risk losing clients by raising your rates. I suspect more clients would be pissed off at the principal of having the price raised by virtue of he fact you placed an ad on Rentboy or M4RN than would be unable to afford your new rate. Perhaps you could mention that your new rate is $X, but as an existing client you are more than happy to keep the rate at $Y and see what they pay you.

[raife]

Don't be fooled by all the CL trash talking you read on this board. Some big talker posters here seem to like to out-"elite" one another and trade gushy stories about this that or the other $300+ rock star escort of the moment, and of course the pros hate CL because the inexpensive competition makes their own rates harder to justify.

 

For many of us more "down to earth" men however, CL is our bread and butter. Most of my current and recent regulars (except the referrals) have come from CL and I've been very satisfied with the quality services of these non and semi-pro guys. That said, I don't think I'd continue to see a guy if he jacked up his prices on me. I'd take it as a message of "you're more trouble than you're worth at the current price" and I'd just move on. To qualify this, I'm in Los Angeles and there are a great number of part time escorts so it's relatively easier to find alternative men of quality.

 

I would suggest you think carefully before going this direction. down_to_business had a good suggestion, but I'm afraid you're probably going to have to start over with a new "upscale" client base that's happy with the Rentboy/M4RN rate range. You can always ask diplomatically, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Best would be to hang on to your established clients at the old rate as long as possible until you're so busy you have no more time for the lower tier. Best of luck to you!

[Guest Rich.]

Guy,

 

How about trying to divide and conquer, and maintain both pools of clients until such time as you're sure you can move over to the mainstream? The reason I suggest this is because I feel there's something of a negative vibe towards the professional sites and their higher price point at this moment in time. Have a look around the Board and see if you get the same 'feel'.

 

I'm just thinking that you might not want to burn your CL bridge until you're safely across it!

 

Best.

 

Richard

[Michael Wayne]

Hi and welcome. Fellow escort here. I have had a policy set in stone for years that current clients are, "Grandfathered in," so to speak at the original rate I saw them at the first time. I NEVER raise rates on existing clients, ever. I am not saying someone is wrong to do that, not at all! But for me I choose not to do it. also, be careful about raising your prices even for new clients. If what you are doing is working at whatever your rate is then consider sticking to it. 3 or 4 $100 appts. a day add up and quickly! Trust me there are quite a few $200-$350 guys all over the country right now who have alot of time on their hands because their phones are not ringing. I love my regulars and when things are slow the regulars keep you going so don't do anything to upset them. Just my thoughts http://www.rentboy.com/mikey9nola1

[Michael Wayne]

one more thing: when I raised my basic hourly rate from $150 to $200 something interesting happened. Several of my regulars stopped calling. Three months later I ran across him in public and he spoke and was very friendly. I asked if he was ok and he said yes but that he could no longer afford me at my new rate. I laughed and told him that his rate did not change and that the rate increase was for new clients. I explained that the loyalty of my good new orleans regulars allowed me to keep their rates down. He is now a regular again and now when I see a client I always tell them that their rate will never increase so as to avoid any misunderstanding

[Guynextdoor32]

Ok....thanks for the feed back! I won't mess with a good thing....you are right Mikey...it does add up! Thanks guys!

[Gar1eth]

Just another client viewpoint-- actually my viewpoint is the same as Mikey's. Ive been hiring for about 9 years now. I can tell you that multiple times over the years-- it was either listed in an escort's ad or website that if he raised his rates, his old clients were kept at the old rates. It sounds like you are deciding that this is what you want to do-- so I wanted to assure you that not just Mikey has done this-- there is a lot of precedent for this. While I'm sure not all escorts do it, I think the ones that really care about their clients do.

 

Gman

[Dave]

Just another client viewpoint-- actually my viewpoint is the same as Mikey's. Ive been hiring for about 9 years now. I can tell you that multiple times over the years-- it was either listed in an escort's ad or website that if he raised his rates, his old clients were kept at the old rates. It sounds like you are deciding that this is what you want to do-- so I wanted to assure you that not just Mikey has done this-- there is a lot of precedent for this. While I'm sure not all escorts do it, I think the ones that really care about their clients do.

 

Gman

 

i really care about my clients! and yet i don't keep established clients at the original rate they first had.

 

over 7 years, i have only raised my rates twice. the first time was in year two, i had repeatedly been told by experienced hirers that my rates were too low(!) the second time was this past march, when i increased my shorter length hire rates, but kept my overnight and 24 hour rates the same. i sent out an email message about this to any clients i have email addresses for, and i've tried my best to tell any previous clients who called me subsequently that my rates increased. i also put an annoying little signature at the end of my email messages that says "please note my rates effective march 1, 2011" with a link to that page.

 

increasing one's rates can be done for many reasons. with all due respect, i feel it's inappropriate to assume an escort doesn't care about his clients, just because he's raised his rates.

[Michael Wayne]

Right Dave. I certainly know how much you care about your clients(from your reviews). i think there are various ways to handle this and no one way is right or wrong. my advice to the newbie was, I think, appropriate for a new guy. When one is established and successful you can do what you know is best for you. When a restaurant raises prices it is on regulars and new customers and certainly it does not mean they don't care for their customers. With me though, personally, I find in my experience that if you raise the rates on a client in an escort situation they tend to drop off- slowly, but they do drop off. For instance if I saw a guy weekly he may become monthly etc. One more thing: having different rates can be confusing at times. There is something to be said for uniformity.

[good ol boy]

Clarification? I did not think you could post ads anymore on CL. I thought they shut that down?

[JoeyBryant]

I'm going to speak from a personal perspective here...

 

Ok....thanks for the feed back! I won't mess with a good thing....you are right Mikey...it does add up! Thanks guys!

 

Not so fast...The responses you received were pretty much all from a client's perspective on this board. Not that their replies are not valid, but remember you are in this business for them but most importantly YOU.

 

I don't know what you're charging on CL but let's say the average is $60-100 bucks. I also do not know how many clients per week you are seeing either. But I will say I have been in this very same situation. I lived in San Antonio last year right up until about this time. I was there for 7 months. During that time my men4rent and rentboy ads barely ever got any attention. I was using craigslist almost exclusively.

 

But each time I attempted to raise my rates interest would drop. Regulars were never willing to pay more, no matter how you word it or justify it. But at the same time, I wasn't making it just doing erotic rubs! And that's all I could offer because I was not comfortable escorting FULL service boyfriend experience, mixed in with kink for $100. But I had no choice and did rubs the entire time even working in a private studio. I was getting clients all week long and stayed busy but I was only making $60-100 bucks max per client.

 

Meanwhile, I was paying $100 a month men4rent, $30 for rentboy and not getting ANYTHING from them. I was calling and emailing the owners and webmasters that I wasn't getting anything. 1 client a month from men4rent was it, and it was almost always someone from out of town. Never once got anything from rentboy while there. Eventually I figured out it wasn't the site. I got to the point where I was barely getting by. I knew there was nothing I could do but to move. Because that particular area was not willing to see me in the next level. They were complacent at the going rates and had no interest in paying more. And so that's what I did. I left.

 

Here's the point. If you want to move to the next level, there's a sacrifice involved. You may lose the $80 clients but there's probably a $1,000 admirier who's overlooked you because you come off as (sorry to say) cheap. Or because you are not visible. Again, speaking generally here.

 

Now, I'm all for regulars and they have a very important place. But if they are not willing or not able to see you in the next level of your 'enterprise', then you may need to move on, if you can afford to. And being relatively new it may not be reasonable at this point in time. Because it takes time to get to the next level.

 

But I'll tell you this, moving on to the next level is going to be very hard if you're seeing 1 guy for $100 and another for $300 for the same amount of time. Eventually you're not going to feel it's fair; either for the guy paying more or for you accepting less. And it's going to clash.

 

I say, figure out where you want to stand. But remember, more often that not meeting from craigslist does not involve being taken on vacation, or out to dinner, or overnights, or anything more than 1 hour. It doesn't even give the option to travel because most CL clients are not going to commit to seeing an escort who is coming in from across the country. And you can't depend on it.

 

If you feel comfortable keeping a regular at a lower rate then by all means do what is necessary at the moment in time. But if you are really serious about moving on to the next level, it's going to involve moving onto more compatible clientele.

 

and of course the pros hate CL because the inexpensive competition makes their own rates harder to justify.

 

No, because like I said above, most CL clients generally are not willing to invest as much as from other sites. Competition is the last thing a pro would be concerned about on CL. As much flakiness is in the sellers, exists too in the buyers. Who has time for that nonsense? That's why we hate it. And yes I'll admit I've tried out craiglist before...but after being turned down perpetually, sometimes brutally for saying my rate is $180 and that they were looking to pay $40...makes you wanna cringe.

 

I'd also like to add that craiglist's subtle twin is adam4adam. At this point I no longer advertise on there. And hasn't made a dent in my wallet. What do those 2 sites have in common? Bargains and FREE. You can't get to the next level on sites that generally cater to bargain finders and broke guys...

[Michael Wayne]

c.l. therapeutic services is still viable but adult/erotic is shut down. What guys are doing all over the country now is posting escort/massage ads in the c.l. m4m personals sections. This practice violates c.l.'s terms of use and they get flagged and the ad is removed but in the hour to three hours it takes to get flagged the boys get a few clients at the 60-100$ price range. c.l. as of now is NOT BANNING the accounts of the guys who do it. I do NOT fault the young men doing this because WE ALL HAD TO START SOMEWHERE. My caution to them (and to the clients) is to be real careful of law enforcement. Anything on c.l. is a TARGET no matter who tells you it is not. C.L. is RISKY business right now but there are BARGAINS galore and in this economy that is what many clients are looking for and as Seinfeld said, "not that there is anything wrong with that."

[ragazzolupo]

Intresting thread that has many themes: Craig's List and the end of "Erotic" there; the transition to a more "full service" "upscale" "business" model, and the expense of making the transition. It also looks at old/new clients. I am reminded, because I travel in Europe a lot, that gayromeo offes free escort memberships. Now, only in a few US cities is there something like a critical mass of escorts: NYC (home), LA, SF, Ft. L., maybe, Miami and Boston; but what is there to lose? If more escorts in more cities took advantage of gayromeo it would work in the US as it does in Europe. I have found that in NYC the escorts are often quite interesting. mikey9nola, there is not a single NOLA escort on gayromeo. Why?

[JoeyBryant]

I am reminded, because I travel in Europe a lot, that gayromeo offes free escort memberships. If more escorts in more cities took advantage of gayromeo it would work in the US as it does in Europe. there is not a single NOLA escort on gayromeo. Why?

 

I've never tried it but my guess is maybe it doesn't work here.

 

Matter of fact, we have something here like that. Where I originally began; Gay.com.

 

Edit: actually after looking at the site more that reminds me more of a4a which is popular here. Free stuff mixed in with pay services.