Dammed if you and dammed if you don’t

[Bart]

I have not been out to the forum in sometime so dreary weather today I decided to take a peak. It was with interest I read threads by both Indy medic on escorts and conversations and Joey Bryant’s on annoying opinions by outsiders.

 

There is a bit of commonality in that they both tread on the boundaries of relationships, what is appropriate and what is not. Of course there is no one answer as each gentleman conducts their business to suit their own needs as it should be. The following is just a couple of experiences related to offering opinions or not and communications/relationships with gentlemen.

 

Two relationships I have had for awhile came to a head over the last several months. It appears I took the wrong approach in both if you look at it from the gentlemen’s point of view. Over the years, 8 of them, you get to know clients and gentlemen and there are times we make certain decisions and say things that we probably regret or times we don’t say something and maybe we should. I have always been fascinated how each gentleman as an entrepreneur handles their business. So I tend to be a friendly guy and I generally hire for longer engagements which allows for conversation. I do admit I have gone beyond the strict business with several gentlemen, not monetarily but with help in their affairs. I would offer opinions but always with the caveat that it is your business not mine and try to be respectful.

 

Events, not relevant in detail, late in 2009 had me reconsider my approach to my relationships and I decided to pull back a bit in my opinions as I felt I was pushing what I thought was right and I was being selfish and most likely coming off arrogant and did not realize it. Now mind you I do talk to gentlemen outside the time allotment of the actual hiring time. Drop an email here and there because I do care about the guys they have in general been very nice to me. With my new stance on less opinion and be more of a listener, you have to drag an opinion out of me because again I felt I was not in their shoes.

 

First in 2009 I interfered between two gentlemen I considered friends who were not getting along. After stepping my foot in my mouth quite decisively I quickly apologized and pulled back. Well once was not enough another pair of gentlemen I was quite close to were not where I felt they should be and it did effect our meeting and so again selfishly I stated my opinion and well they no longer speak to me. So thus my change to no opinion unless asked and even then reluctantly.

 

Then a recent event caused a rather significant schism with a person who I do consider a friend, an event that I chose to stay out of mostly because I knew he was seeing things through faultless viewpoint and I knew he was not fault free. He contacted me a few weeks later saying he was in the area and wanted to get together. I said great but I was not going to discuss anything regarding the event as I felt it was none of my business. After scheduling the appt he responded a few days later that he could not go through the appt. He was perturbed with me that I did not extol support and as part of meeting he wanted to discuss the issues more thoroughly. I stated I felt this was more related to his business and I felt it was not appropriate of me to discuss it which I stated earlier. He decided that it was best that we did not meet at this point which I accepted. This is not a complaint on his declining the meeting, I do understand his reasoning, but what is a client to do? Again I am treading lightly here as I am a client in a completely different situation than any gentleman in the industry.

 

I don’t live in an area where 1 hour appts can allow the luxury of a black & white decision. If you are going to be with someone for several hours you are going to get a bit personal at times. So in the end be careful what you wish for and don’t jump to conclusions. I don’t want to change who I am or what I came here for. I am very happy I have a couple gentlemen who I really consider friends and it is worth working through the business/friendship issue but I constantly remind myself it is a two-way street. I do know unless asked I am not offering opinions BUT if you hear a FRIEND not listening to his own problems do you say something or not. Conversation involves both listening and speaking just where is that LINE??? If the friend is a gentlemen or the client where does that go for opinions or support (non-monetary of course)??

[Mocha]

I'd just avoid any controversial material during an appointment. If it starts to head that direction its best to re-direct it. I would also not discuss anything dealing with what happened on a message forum during a booking either.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Bart -- I can feel your pain through your writing at the loss of your gentlemen friends. Unfortunately, I don't think that 'THE DAMNED LINE' is static in any relatinoship nor is it anywhere near the same in any relationship. It is a constantly moving target between appropriate and intrusive. The first three paragraphs could hve been written by me because I am exactly the same way. I think it is just something we are going to have to keep muddling through the best we can. And mores the pity. But thank you for a wonderfully written and well thought out post. It certainly made me think.

[Guest IndyMedic2006]

Is what i said about conversations and escorts wrong or out of line?

[Diverdan]

No easy answer...

 

Bart,

Thanks for sharing your post. Clearly this is causing some angst, and unfortunately there is no simple answer to you or anyone else in this situation. Relationships under the best of circumstances can be tricky and IMHO only friendships/relationships that have been built over some period of time can handle the difficulties that often come up. This is even trickier with a third party who is a friend of the two who are having the difficulty with each other. If one or both of these friends are also escorts with whom you have a professional relationship, it becomes even more fragile a situation. I don't think the real issue is your offering an opinion or feedback about the situations that have been presented to you. It is more likely that the opinion was offered when in fact no opinion was really requested. "Compassionate Listening" or "Active Listening" is a skill that we develop over time and if contact is infrequent among the parties involved, it becomes even more difficult.

 

My advise, for what it is worth, is not to beat yourself over the head on these situations. If you can continue to be a friend and a good listener, well then, over time the situations will resolve. You are not responsible for any one else's relationships, as you already well know. So, just hang in there, be a friend and move forward.

 

DD

[NYTomcat]

Bart. In the end we can only be who we are just as the gentlemen and friends in question must do the same. You were offering guidance the best you knew how and staying out of conflict between friends the best you knew how. That is all you can do. And if thats not enough. Then the friendship was not meant to survive.

 

Its easy to say stay impartial and dont develop these kinds of friendships and attachments. But to anyone who has had the privilege of truly counting the benefits of a friend.... you know that while simpler it is far less fulfilling a life to not make these very human and beneficial connections. I hope .... for your sake this friend who doesn't see that often silence is the best support you can offer. Especially when your only real path is to be Switzerland ... neutral between two disagreeing sides.

 

Whatever else. Know you were honest. True to your friends and hope they will someday see that.

[justaguy]

Bart,

My advise, for what it is worth, is not to beat yourself over the head on these situations. If you can continue to be a friend and a good listener, well then, over time the situations will resolve. You are not responsible for any one else's relationships, as you already well know. So, just hang in there, be a friend and move forward.DD

 

Bart, IMO Diverdan has given you the best advice. I would suggest that instead of simply giving your opinion, you check first to see if it's welcome. If not, then say nothing. As to canceling a meet because you failed to 'extol' another person--that's putting strings where none should exist and is, in this context, almost a form of blackmail. Stay true to yourself, if for no other reason than that's who you have to wake up to every day of the year. Be well.