Is it right that escorts enable married men to cheat on their wives?

[JT Brooklyn]

Long Live The "Working Guy"!

 

I would say that a substantial number, but not a majority, of the clients of gay male escorts are heterosexually married. Many do not discuss their home lives, but there are cues you pick up on: wedding rings, the absence of a gay sensibility, a different approach to sex. Others are open about their home lives. Many others are in a gay relationship, which may or may not be formally ‘open.’

Until recent times, there was overwhelming pressure to conform to the societal norm of heterosexual marriage. Some gay and bisexual men still feel compelled into it, particularly in certain ethnic communities. Some married gay men have seen society change around them, but have decided that they value their relationship with their partners on other levels or do not want to cause personal and family upheaval.

So they turn to escorts, and what better or safer place to turn? They have urges that must be satisfied, not only sexual, but for male-male intimacy generally. Going to cruising spots, saunas or out on the scene is risky from a point of view of discretion. Even online hook-ups could get messy. Any sort of actual dating could pose a threat to the marriage. On the other hand, discreetly seeing escorts is singularly unlikely to pose a threat to the marriage. It is a choice many make, for their own reasons and usually with the best intentions of not hurting anyone.

 

As for the escort’s role, you should not assume that they are all motivated only by money. Yes, financial compensation is an important part of the equation, as it is for any job. But an outstanding professional escort will also be motivated by the desire to do his clients good. To offer not only hot sex, but acceptance and understanding. To facilitate self-affirmation and self-actualization and help fill the gaps in their client’s lives. If their lives include wives, that is their judgment call.

 

Totally Agree! "Enabling" has become a very Fashionable Word!

[+ Lucky]

Say Juan, is it okay to hire you for sex therapy even if I am not horny?

What if I am just horny, is it okay to take the sex therapy along with it?

If I could hire you today, I would, but I don't even know where you are these days. I do remember going to Vancouver specifically to hire you. The trip was well worth it! The guy at customs asked me what my purpose was in visiting Canada, and I answered honestly: to see a sex therapist. He responded: Do you mean Juan? And I answered honestly, well, of course.

I was then taken to the back, where several agents all told me their experiences with Juan and what a good experience I had in store for me. Now, every time I go to Vancouver, the customs agent just nods knowingly at me, and I am whisked through.

[NYTomcat]

Escorts are providing a unique service and I don't think of them as enablers as they are not forcing anyone to have sex with them (unless that's been pre-arranged.) However, I do find it somewhat difficult to accept the phrase "married heterosexual" when they are haveing male-on-male sex with male escorts or any other man. As to whether or not adultery is good for a relationship that is often cultural. In certain societies, such as France, it's an acknowledged and often accepted practice. That's not necessarily the case in our puritanical culture. I think what deserves more consideration is what I percieve as the manipulation and deception toward the spouse (wife) for what I believe are selfish reasons. At some point, if the truth is revealed, I know if I were in that situatioin I would feel betrayed, manipulated and used.

 

And here we go again. I should really just. Learn to avoid. These threads like the rest of my married brethren. And hide in shame from the scorn of all the happily monogamous gay partners here on the forum

 

Each of our lives have lead us here one way or another. Can we just agree to try not too judge. Because no two situations are the same. The people involved make them different if not the facts themselves

[Guest greatness]

oh my

 

NYTomcat.. I love you just the way you are..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ounJsqomcv8

[+ Lucky]

NYTomcat- The thread title alone told you that this was another when are you going to stop beating your dog threads. That's why I responded in such a way that had nothing to do with the topic, but a lot to do with how much I like Juan's posts.

You've stated your case elsewhere, no need to keep repeating it every time someone else chimes in.Or so I think.

[NYTomcat]

NYTomcat- The thread title alone told you that this was another when are you going to stop beating your dog threads. That's why I responded in such a way that had nothing to do with the topic, but a lot to do with how much I like Juan's posts.

You've stated your case elsewhere, no need to keep repeating it every time someone else chimes in.Or so I think.

 

And right your thinking is. Thanks for pointing out what I should already know

[cynicalflannelwearer]

I would firmly say you are attempting to make escorts look like bad people based on the title and text of this post. Also, escorts do not enable anyone to do anything that they don't want to do nor do we (escorts) ask questions about ones marital status because honestly, it's none of our business unless the client should choose to disclose that information which is rarely the case.

 

This thread also seems to go with one of your other posts "Are escorts and those that pay for their services immoral or criminal?" which sounds like you have a personal conflict with hiring and those that hire, you being one of them. Take personal responsibility for your actions.

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?t=74445

 

You are right that we should take personal responsibility for our choices, whether it be to hire an escort, have that second big mac even though one is obese, or put another dollar into that slot machine.We are not victims, and escorts are not predators.

 

That being said, for me personally, if I found out that someone I met out in a bar or on craigslist, etc, was married or committed to someone, I would choose to no longer see that person as I would feel that it was the right thing to do.It might be hard if I really liked the person, but for me I know that if the person is already in a relationship, what is the point of seeing them again, I may want more than they can or will provide.

 

It is in an escorts best interest to see the client again, regardless of that clients marital status, sexual orientation,finances, etc. Is it the escorts responsibility to know or care about the clients personal life? No, I guess not.But if an escort finds out about the clients personal life, as escorts tend to do as some of these clients must open themselves up to you and confess these things,what personal responsibility does the escort have in this?

 

Am I being a hypocrite by criticizing the same people I choose to hire? Yes,I am. But this message board allows me to discuss and deal with some of the many issues I have about my life and why I do the things I do.

 

I did not mean to upset you, Romann, but I guess I could of chosen my words more carefully.

[doitb4ugo]

Is it time to order the pizza.

[josephga]

I met a guy on match , com once. we talked a few times and agreed on dinner, he came over picked me up we got to the restaurant about 10 minutes into the conversation he made a slip up, And I asked him if he already had a bf? he said kinda. i said kinda hell you do or you don't.. I told him the date was over, i called the waitress over canceled my order and walked 3 miles back too my apartment..

[Boston Guy]

I am not married, nor do I have a girlfriend or any kids, but I know darn well that a majority of men that see male escorts are heterosexually married,most with children,with the wife not knowing what is going on, and while I don't have any statistics to back what I am saying up, I am pretty sure that this is the case.

 

On the off-chance that yours is a serious question, I'll try to address each of your points seriously. First, you write "I know darn well ..." but then almost immediately write "I don't have any statistics to back what I am saying up" and then "I am pretty sure that this is the case." Written differently, that could easily be "I don't have any facts or information but what I want to believe is this: ..."

 

You don't have any statistics (no surprise there; no one has the relevant statistics) but you claim that a majority of the men who hire escorts are "heterosexually married". Without having access to statistics, I wonder how in the world you can make this claim? What are you basing it on -- other than your own belief?

 

But then you go even farther. You claim that this group of "heterosexually married" men who represent the majority of the clients of gay escorts have children and haven't told their wives what is going on. So not only have you identified the group that represents the majority of the clients of gay escorts, you have further qualified them as fathers and have decided that they mostly are not telling the wife -- if they were then they wouldn't fall into your group that doesn't tell their wives and represent the majority of the clients out there.

 

So you've somehow neatly pigeon-holed an unknowable group and then further described them and their behavior. That's a neat trick, given that you have no information whatsoever to base your supposition on.

 

I am not trying to make escorts look like bad people,or maybe I am, but they do these things mostly knowing that their clients are married, and all so that they can make a quick buck.

 

OK, let's be honest here. You ARE trying to make escorts look bad. In fact, you are tarring them all with a very broad brush. Up above, you used a complete absence of facts, information or statistics to hypothesize a group of "heterosexually married" men who cheat on their wives with gay escorts, have children and don't tell their wives. You further state that this group of clients represents the majority of the clients of gay escorts. Now, you say that escorts "do these things mostly knowing that their clients are married" ... hmmmm, the clients don't tell their wives that they are seeing an escort but the first thing they do when they walk into an appointment with an escort is tell him that they are married, have kids and aren't going to tell the wife? Or do you think that escorts somehow have a magical "married-with-kids-and-unknowing-wife" radar? Or is it that you think that all escorts press their clients for these details.

 

In my experience over a dozen years, most escorts do get to know information about clients that they see over time but most are quite discreet about asking personal questions and let relationships take a fairly normal path. I believe that most escorts may suspect that this client is gay and out and that this one is married or whatever but I also suspect that most escorts do not know for sure the status of many of their clients.

 

Certainly, escorts do what they do so they can "make a quick buck". Last time I checked, the same was true for most people who work for a living. But the distinction that you are trying to make is that escorts are somehow PREYING on innocent "heterosexually married men" with children and unknowing innocent wives at home, somehow enticing them to come out fall into the clutches of the morally corrupt escort who will "do these things" that will cause the downfall of the client and his marriage. You are trying to make a case that these terrible escorts are "making a quick buck" at the great expense of these innocent men who somehow bear no culpability for their actions.

 

Is this right?

 

Is the broad attack that you are trying to lay at the feet of escorts -- basically blaming them for doing these terrible things that are somehow corrupting this innocent group of married men that you hypothesize represents the majority of the clients of escorts -- is that right? No, it's basically a crock of shit. You have no information, no data, no statistics to back up your hypothesis regarding the nature of the group you have formulated and you also have no data regarding how large such a group might be or, if one does exist, what portion of the clientele of the average escort it might represent. For all the data we have, married men could represent 99% of all of the clients of escorts or 1% of the clients.

 

Further, you try to shift all moral responsibility onto the escort. Instead of blaming a man who is a married and a father for hiring an escort, you try to somehow shift the blame onto the escort, as though some imaginary effort out there is being undertaken by escorts to lure these innocent fathers and husbands into the clutches of the escorts. You also try to imply that seeing an escort is somehow a bad thing for the client's marriage -- another claim that is entirely without merit for there is no data to support your claim. For all we know, seeing the occasional escort may allow men who are inclined to do so to maintain their marriages and continue to function as good fathers to the children that you suppose they have. As a matter of fact, the cases that I've heard of where a marriage broke up because a man was seeing a male escort have been few and far between but you have implied that "a majority" of the clients of escorts are men who are being led down this exceeding dangerous or evil path by escorts and, if your suppositions were true, we'd be hearing about a lot more divorces laid of the feet of men who were led astray by evil gay escorts.

 

Oh, and yes, I know that these married men that see escorts would probably have sex with men regardless, paid or unpaid, but escorts have a profit motive for what they do, not like a guy in a bookstore or at a gay bar.

 

Of course escorts have a profit motive. So do the owners of the gay bookstores and the owners of the gay bar -- and the salesmen who sold these innocent husbands the cars that they used to drive to their meetings with the escorts and the salesmen and manufacturers who provided the clothing that they wore to the meeting and the media who made it possible for escorts to advertise and the list goes on and on and on. Are you somehow blaming capitalism for the downfall of marriage? Or are you trying to say the escorts are evil for charging for sex? Is there something particularly rank about charging for sex? Or does it only bother you when it's with a man who is married and has children and doesn't tell his wife? And do you further believe that this oh-so-innocent husband bears no culpability for cheating on his wife and children with the man in the bookstore or the bar? Or is it that by not paying for sex he has somehow avoided some of the sleaze that you seem to associate with this?

 

Basically, as I wrote above, your hypotheses, assumptions and allegations are a crock of shit. What I don't understand is why someone who might frequent this website would even pose these questions. You state that you don't have a girlfriend, wife or children, so it doesn't seem that you are trying to explore your own situation. It's entirely possible and maybe likely that you are simply a troll. But if not, I'm quite curious why you posed the question initially and in the manner that you did.

[Romann]

Right!

 

Is it time to order the pizza.

 

HAHAHAHAHA! I still laugh about that comment. What's the pizza joint number again?

[josephga]

HAHAHAHAHA! I still laugh about that comment. What's the pizza joint number again?

 

lol someone had a thread on another board i visit that knew was going to stir up things. I made a picture of myself eating a bag of pop corn and posted it as my response

[Guest greatness]

oh my

 

I'm going vegetarian tonight...

 

Is it time to order the pizza.

[Mocha]

This thread just goes to show that the enemy is staring us right in the face, reading our posts. And its no wonder the replies we get can be so foul...because there are users on the forum who outright hate escorts yet like to sit their ass on the site anyway. I dont get it...

[cynicalflannelwearer]

This thread just goes to show that the enemy is staring us right in the face, reading our posts. And its no wonder the replies we get can be so foul...because there are users on the forum who outright hate escorts yet like to sit their ass on the site anyway. I dont get it...

 

I don't hate anyone,Mocha. Besides, where better to discuss escorts and moral/ethical issues than on an escort review board.

[doitb4ugo]

Sanctimoneous it is.

 

I don't hate anyone,Mocha. Besides, where better to discuss escorts and moral/ethical issues than on an escort review board.

 

I might agree if your point in this thread were it to discuss the issue. You have clearly made up your mind and the other posters have made up theirs. This is not a discussion, It is a diatribe.

 

As one client who is married with children, are you so obtuse to think that I have not considered you arguments. Been There, Done That.

 

What conclusions I have come to and how I choose to lead my life is certainly no business of yours or anyone else's.

 

Perhaps you could stir up more guilt and anger if you joined a weight-loss forum and criticised the people there for being fat. Obvious, but not very helpful.

[NYTomcat]

Read lucky's post doitb. It is good advice. Its why im glad he is back.

[Romann]

Hmmm... this is a complete 180 degree turn.

 

I don't hate anyone, Mocha. Besides, where better to discuss escorts and moral/ethical issues than on an escort review board.

 

Don't forget but you suggested that escorts and clients that hire are criminals too per a previous thread you started which I included in my initial reply to you for reference...

 

Now I may have been born in the morning but it wasn't yesterday morning and based on your two posts which included serious questions and accusations, I wouldn't exactly say you're a friend to the escorting industry and those that hire. Were you expecting an honest set of answers from members on this board after looking down on us and pointing the finger for some of the same behavior that you do? Also, how do you know that you haven't slept with someone that is married to a man or woman with children? Do you ask this question every time you meet someone that you're interested in having sex with? How do you know the person is telling you the truth? Some people like to say they're married because it's part of the fantasy for them so should an escort turn them away or perform a background check to ensure truth?

 

I have a question for you...

 

Since you seem to think that escorts are home wreckers (sorry for putting words in your mouth but that is what I'm reading from this post), how do you deal with the fact that you hire these supposed unethical/immoral/criminal (lets just throw in home wrecker again because that's basically what you're accusing us of) escorts? Are you not only supporting this behavior by hiring escorts that you believe are bad people because of their chosen profession by continuing to hire? Doesn't that make you just what you're accusing escorts of? Again, immoral, unethical and criminal...

 

Next question...

 

When you ask your escort if they're in a relationship (because apparently this is what I'm supposed to be doing according to you with each and every appointment) and lets say they tell you "Yes, I am". Do you turn them away at the door or do you proceed with the appointment? I would place money on the fact that you don't ask that question so doesn't that put you in the same boat as me as immoral, unethical and criminal? So again, why point the finger at us? You're the one hiring. You're the one that called the escort and the one that asked them to show up at your door or arrived at their hotel. No one twisted your arm or put a gun to your head so why twist ours or put a gun to our head because of what we do.

 

Also, by using the words that you did, you only push people in the closet even more by adding additional guilt to an already complex situation. An old saying comes to mind when thinking of this post and that is "Look in your own back yard before you look at mine". How do you know the living conditions/arrangements of a married couple. I have been hired by a number of couples (by husband and wife, husband and husband plus boyfriend and boyfriend so are you certain you know of the arrangements when it comes to couples, married people and those who are dating? To think that the spouse is always left in the dark is inaccurate and like Bostonguy pointed out to you, there is no statistical information that you can point to which would support your statements.

 

Lastly, I accept your apology because by nature, I'm a pretty forgiving person despite the fact that you spit on the profession that I have come to adore. The services that escorts provide are invaluable and in many cases, they hold marriages together that would otherwise be torn apart by divorce and the breakup of the family structure (whatever that is defined as and should only be defined by the people involved) subsequently adding additional pain. While my statement may seem completely from far left field, it is true and I say that because I've been told that by dozens of clients from all over the country who I see on a regular basis when traveling or when they travel to my home base.

 

I think your broader apology should be directed to the posters of this forum because your accusations were offensive but that's just me. Then again, what do I know?

[Guest greatness]

Well

 

We all grow and learn from our experiences and things that are about to unfold in the future... Let's give the benefit of the doubt to CFW. He apologized so let's accept his apology and move on.

[cynicalflannelwearer]

Don't forget but you suggested that escorts and clients that hire are criminals too per a previous thread you started which I included in my initial reply to you for reference...

 

Now I may have been born in the morning but it wasn't yesterday morning and based on your two posts which included serious questions and accusations, I wouldn't exactly say you're a friend to the escorting industry and those that hire. Were you expecting an honest set of answers from members on this board after looking down on us and pointing the finger for some of the same behavior that you do? Also, how do you know that you haven't slept with someone that is married to a man or woman with children? Do you ask this question every time you meet someone that you're interested in having sex with? How do you know the person is telling you the truth? Some people like to say they're married because it's part of the fantasy for them so should an escort turn them away or perform a background check to ensure truth?

 

I have a question for you...

 

Since you seem to think that escorts are home wreckers (sorry for putting words in your mouth but that is what I'm reading from this post), how do you deal with the fact that you hire these supposed unethical/immoral/criminal (lets just throw in home wrecker again because that's basically what you're accusing us of) escorts? Are you not only supporting this behavior by hiring escorts that you believe are bad people because of their chosen profession by continuing to hire? Doesn't that make you just what you're accusing escorts of? Again, immoral, unethical and criminal...

 

Next question...

 

When you ask your escort if they're in a relationship (because apparently this is what I'm supposed to be doing according to you with each and every appointment) and lets say they tell you "Yes, I am". Do you turn them away at the door or do you proceed with the appointment? I would place money on the fact that you don't ask that question so doesn't that put you in the same boat as me as immoral, unethical and criminal? So again, why point the finger at us? You're the one hiring. You're the one that called the escort and the one that asked them to show up at your door or arrived at their hotel. No one twisted your arm or put a gun to your head so why twist ours or put a gun to our head because of what we do.

 

Also, by using the words that you did, you only push people in the closet even more by adding additional guilt to an already complex situation. An old saying comes to mind when thinking of this post and that is "Look in your own back yard before you look at mine". How do you know the living conditions/arrangements of a married couple. I have been hired by a number of couples (by husband and wife, husband and husband plus boyfriend and boyfriend so are you certain you know of the arrangements when it comes to couples, married people and those who are dating? To think that the spouse is always left in the dark is inaccurate and like Bostonguy pointed out to you, there is no statistical information that you can point to which would support your statements.

 

Lastly, I accept your apology because by nature, I'm a pretty forgiving person despite the fact that you spit on the profession that I have come to adore. The services that escorts provide are invaluable and in many cases, they hold marriages together that would otherwise be torn apart by divorce and the breakup of the family structure (whatever that is defined as and should only be defined by the people involved) subsequently adding additional pain. While my statement may seem completely from far left field, it is true and I say that because I've been told that by dozens of clients from all over the country who I see on a regular basis when traveling or when they travel to my home base.

 

I think your broader apology should be directed to the posters of this forum because your accusations were offensive but that's just me. Then again, what do I know?

 

You have a lot of valid points, Romann.I have never thought to ask an escort about their personal life,at least at first, I guess I was just thinking about getting it on with them and didn't care.But one escort that I saw several times, and that I was becoming emotionally attached to, told me that he was single, but straight.Oh well, I live and learn.

 

I guess if I have such a problem with what I do and what escorts do, then I should stop hiring them and go find myself some one to have sex with in a more conventional way.

 

I like your post, it is honest. You are right, I am just as guilty as the person I point the finger at. I need to have an honest look at myself and not focus on criticizing other people, but just dealing with me and maybe changing my life for the better. if that means no more escorts or random hook ups, then so be it.

 

Maybe I should delete my account and move on with my life.

 

Thank you, Romann, you seem like a smart guy!

[cynicalflannelwearer]

We all grow and learn from our experiences and things that are about to unfold in the future... Let's give the benefit of the doubt to CFW. He apologized so let's accept his apology and move on.

 

Thank you, greatness!

[Guest greatness]

oh no~~~

 

When I first started hiring I was a bit like you.. Always wondering whether I am doing the right thing.. I always worry whether what I am doing might affect escorts negatively and vice versa.. I have changed since and learned a bit from my encounters. Sometimes putting your thoughts into words helps and listening to other people's views helps too. We all learn and grow so I hope this experience will help you. I will miss you if you leave so I hope you stay.. Big Big Big kisses and hugs~~~

[Mocha]

You have a lot of valid points,

Maybe I should delete my account and move on with my life.

 

Thank you, Romann, you seem like a smart guy!

 

The key to surviving a forum is not running away....but standing up to your point, because at one point you believed in it. Its your job to get people to believe in that, however difficult LOL. But I did get a good laugh off of this. Romann kind of layed down the smackdown. I havent laughed this hard in days LOL.

 

On a serious note though...I do agree with what a certain poster mentioned. Have we not all watched Jerry Springer (even if it is staged?)

 

Here's a secret: When I was about 18, 19 there was a married guy I knew...very sexy, big dick and tattoos. He would fuck me in the house while his wife was at work and this went on for nearly 2 years.

 

This was well before I even thought about escorting...so how does one explain that? Answer is...you cant. The guy was gay...he liked ass and dick. His wife didnt have a dick. Its not his or her fault.

 

Its not an escorting thing. Its a preference thing.

[cynicalflannelwearer]

The key to surviving a forum is not running away....but standing up to your point, because at one point you believed in it. Its your job to get people to believe in that, however difficult LOL. But I did get a good laugh off of this. Romann kind of layed down the smackdown. I havent laughed this hard in days LOL.

 

Here's a secret: When I was about 18, 19 there was a married guy I knew...very sexy, big dick and tattoos. He would fuck me in the house while his wife was at work and this went on for nearly 2 years.

 

This was well before I even thought about escorting...so how does one explain that? Answer is...you cant. The guy was gay...he liked ass and dick. His wife didnt have a dick. Its not his or her fault.

 

Its not an escorting thing. Its a preference thing.

 

Well, I can stand up for my point, but there is no use in arguing a point to death.Romann had some valid points.Did I back down? Yes. But I am a grown ass man and feel that I am mature enough to admit that I am wrong.

 

And regarding the married man. It is 2010, not 1950. No one has to hide liking ass and dick anymore. I am a 30 something man that grew up in the 80's and early 90's. I have been out since I was 17.Could I have a wife and kids now?Yes. Women are attracted to me, and I like women, just not sexually.I don't know why and probably never will.

 

Am I making another judgment call without knowing a damn thing about this mans life? Yes.But life is not all sugar and spice and everything nice. I have an opinion about closeted men,sorry, but are we not allowed to critique people at all, regardless of what they do?

[NYTomcat]

Well, I can stand up for my point, but there is no use in arguing a point to death.Romann had some valid points.Did I back down? Yes. But I am a grown ass man and feel that I am mature enough to admit that I am wrong.

 

And regarding the married man. It is 2010, not 1950. No one has to hide liking ass and dick anymore. I am a 30 something man that grew up in the 80's and early 90's. I have been out since I was 17.Could I have a wife and kids now?Yes. Women are attracted to me, and I like women, just not sexually.I don't know why and probably never will.

 

Am I making another judgment call without knowing a damn thing about this mans life? Yes.But life is not all sugar and spice and everything nice. I have an opinion about closeted men,sorry, but are we not allowed to critique people at all, regardless of what they do?

Of course you are. And I am happy to take that criticism if you truly think its necessary. Let me just remind you that the men here you are critiquing. Often take your statements to. Heart as we often have the same critiques of ourselves. If you actually read the link I supplied earlier you would know some of our background and why our closeted lifestyle came to pass.

It is not always societal pressure. And in some areas of the country it is still 1950 in attitude. I am happy this is not your lot in life. Truly. Now feel free to berate away. I promise its nothing I have not heard Before or said to myself.

 

Now That said... What romann says is correct and your acknowledgement of that as toward the escorts is appreciated. They are not the issue, morally or otherwise and your understanding of that says a lot.