Is it right that escorts enable married men to cheat on their wives?

[cynicalflannelwearer]

I am not married, nor do I have a girlfriend or any kids, but I know darn well that a majority of men that see male escorts are heterosexually married,most with children,with the wife not knowing what is going on, and while I don't have any statistics to back what I am saying up, I am pretty sure that this is the case.

 

I am not trying to make escorts look like bad people,or maybe I am, but they do these things mostly knowing that their clients are married, and all so that they can make a quick buck.

 

Is this right?

 

Oh, and yes, I know that these married men that see escorts would probably have sex with men regardless, paid or unpaid, but escorts have a profit motive for what they do, not like a guy in a bookstore or at a gay bar.

[NYTomcat]

If we are going to Play the Blame game.... place it where it belongs

 

Well I know you ask a different question... but the reality is the blame or blamelessness really falls on the cheater. In this case me. and others like me. The men we hire are simply our choice not to hit the bars, parks, cruising spots and the like just as it is yours as a single unattached man. As to my culpability I have addressed this matter many times the most recently here:

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?t=74523

 

I think this is the best answer I can give you as to my position on the matter.

[gp0560]

"Is it right that escorts enable married men to cheat on their wives?"

 

By the same token, is it right that car salesmen enable teenagers to speed?

Is it right that, by leaving my billfold on the table, I enable the waiter to steal it?

 

In general, to what degree do enablers share in the guilt of the offender?

[orbital sander]

Hmmmm.

 

OK First of all, I am a life long Homosexual and I have hired escorts, I am sure there are many others people like me that have done the same. The notion that only married men hire escorts seems erroneous. I was not forced to hire, I did of my own free will. I believe that everyone makes their own choices, for better or worse. If a married man chooses to hire an escort, then he alone has to bear the consequences (if there are any) of his action. The escort most likely has no clue what the marital status of a client happens to be, and most likely many of his clients do not share that information, or they even share untrue information about themselves.

 

You make it sound like there is a conspiracy of escorts out there to break up marriages. Do you really believe this?

 

Just because you own a gun, you do not have to go out and shoot people, and if you do, you and you alone will bear the consequences. The gun company will not (this has been in court many times).

[NYTomcat]

I also think you cannot compare escorts to the GF BF of adulterers. By their very nature the relationship is such that they often seek to break up the marriage. something escorts would rarely care about.

[orbital sander]

what happened to Romann's post?

[+ glutes]

what happened to Romann's post?

 

Romann is right on target, I am sensing some conflict myself with OP, or just pure trollism.

[Romann]

Hmmm... sounds all too familiar when it comes to pointing the finger.

 

I am not trying to make escorts look like bad people, or maybe I am...

 

I would firmly say you are attempting to make escorts look like bad people based on the title and text of this post. Also, escorts do not enable anyone to do anything that they don't want to do nor do we (escorts) ask questions about ones marital status because honestly, it's none of our business unless the client should choose to disclose that information which is rarely the case.

 

This thread also seems to go with one of your other posts "Are escorts and those that pay for their services immoral or criminal?" which sounds like you have a personal conflict with hiring and those that hire, you being one of them. Take personal responsibility for your actions.

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?t=74445

[orbital sander]

I agree. I was just about to respond to Roann's post when it disappeared.

And he was right on target, I am sensing some conflict myself with OP, or just pure trollism.

 

I decided to hold my tongue and not speculate about that. Perhaps that will show itself in another post or two...

[orbital sander]

what happened to Romann's post?

 

Oh, it was just and edit.

[Romann]

Ooops!

 

what happened to Romann's post?

 

In accordance with being diplomatic, I deleted and then rewrote the post at the same time that Glutes replied. For some reason this really got under my skin because it's another example of the pot calling the kettle black but that's just my opinion.

[orbital sander]

In accordance with being diplomatic, I deleted and then rewrote my post at the same time that Glutes replied.

 

You make an excellent point, IMHO

[Mark Gordon]

Married Men

 

I would say that a substantial number, but not a majority, of the clients of gay male escorts are heterosexually married. Many do not discuss their home lives, but there are cues you pick up on: wedding rings, the absence of a gay sensibility, a different approach to sex. Others are open about their home lives. Many others are in a gay relationship, which may or may not be formally ‘open.’

Until recent times, there was overwhelming pressure to conform to the societal norm of heterosexual marriage. Some gay and bisexual men still feel compelled into it, particularly in certain ethnic communities. Some married gay men have seen society change around them, but have decided that they value their relationship with their partners on other levels or do not want to cause personal and family upheaval.

So they turn to escorts, and what better or safer place to turn? They have urges that must be satisfied, not only sexual, but for male-male intimacy generally. Going to cruising spots, saunas or out on the scene is risky from a point of view of discretion. Even online hook-ups could get messy. Any sort of actual dating could pose a threat to the marriage. On the other hand, discreetly seeing escorts is singularly unlikely to pose a threat to the marriage. It is a choice many make, for their own reasons and usually with the best intentions of not hurting anyone.

 

As for the escort’s role, you should not assume that they are all motivated only by money. Yes, financial compensation is an important part of the equation, as it is for any job. But an outstanding professional escort will also be motivated by the desire to do his clients good. To offer not only hot sex, but acceptance and understanding. To facilitate self-affirmation and self-actualization and help fill the gaps in their client’s lives. If their lives include wives, that is their judgment call.

[NYTomcat]

I would say that a substantial number, but not a majority, of the clients of gay male escorts are heterosexually married. Many do not discuss their home lives, but there are cues you pick up on: wedding rings, the absence of a gay sensibility, a different approach to sex. Others are open about their home lives. Many others are in a gay relationship, which may or may not be formally ‘open.’

Until recent times, there was overwhelming pressure to conform to the societal norm of heterosexual marriage. Some gay and bisexual men still feel compelled into it, particularly in certain ethnic communities. Some married gay men have seen society change around them, but have decided that they value their relationship with their partners on other levels or do not want to cause personal and family upheaval.

 

 

So they turn to escorts, and what better or safer place to turn? They have urges that must be satisfied, not only sexual, but for male-male intimacy generally. Going to cruising spots, saunas or out on the scene is risky from a point of view of discretion. Even online hook-ups could get messy. Any sort of actual dating could pose a threat to the marriage. On the other hand, discreetly seeing escorts is singularly unlikely to pose a threat to the marriage. It is a choice many make, for their own reasons and usually with the best intentions of not hurting anyone.

 

As for the escort’s role, you should not assume that they are all motivated only by money. Yes, financial compensation is an important part of the equation, as it is for any job. But an outstanding professional escort will also be motivated by the desire to do his clients good. To offer not only hot sex, but acceptance and understanding. To facilitate self-affirmation and self-actualization and help fill the gaps in their client’s lives. If their lives include wives, that is their judgment call.

 

Can I stand and Applaud Now Mark. Beautifully said

[GoodFella69]

Is this right?

 

It's not only "right," it's a helluva lot safer than having unsavory bookstore sex, cruising in public spaces, or risking hook-ups with anonymous Craig's List lurkers. Professional Escorts provide a wonderful service and in many cases they are a marriage-saver. In other cases they are a life-saver, quite literally.

[+ bigjoey]

Romman"s and Mark Gordan's posts are right on. I am 64 and many friends got maried back in ancient times as there was really not much choice; it was easier to go along with family and society pressure. Now in thier 50's and 60's I have friends who are coming out to live their last years as they want to live them, as gay men. Sometimes, the men I know coming out are a complete surprise to me as they are very masculine, family men and I never would have guessed they were gay inside.

 

Back in the days of the GAIETY, many dancers would tell me that 75 to 80 percent of their clients were married and came there for a "quickie" before going home to their families.

 

The good escorts provide a few moments of mental shelter to these closeted married men. They help them release mental tensions as well as physical ones. The services provided are very important to their clients and many escorts have told me they have some clients that just want to talk.

 

Now married men do not need an escort to cheat on their wives; think politicians from Edward Kennedy to Mark Sanford or presidents from John Kennedy to Franklin Roosevelt; think "toe-tapping Larry Craig" finding men in restrooms or NJ Governor Mc Greevy with his boy friend. Hetro or Homo, men cheat.

 

What a good escort does provide is a professional who can often do a better, safer job than a man picked up in a rest room.

[Juan Vancouver]

Is it right that escorts write such long posts?

 

"Oh, you don't have to put a condom on; I am married."

 

If I could get one penny for every time that I have heard that, I would be a wealthy man.

 

Married men who have sex with other men somehow have been left at the fringe of existence and by not explicitly naming them in the prevention ads, inadvertently they may have also been left out of the realm of safe sex. More often than not I meet these men who are convinced that they won't catch anything because all the nasties happen only to the gays.

 

Yes. Married men can get their dicks sucked at a porn shop. They can be fucked bare in the backroom of a video store before they go to their missus completely convinced that they are safe, because they are not one of "the gays".

 

Yes, part of my job is sucking these guy's cocks and fucking their asses, but that is only part of my job. Since the beginning of my escorting career I have self-appointed myself as some sort of sex therapist, and most of what I do is help people become comfortable with who they are, escort them during their adventure of exploring themselves and others and sharing with them the necessary tools that they may need to do this journey in a safe and sane way.

 

I am a fucktoy, yes. But I am also an educator, and a safe, non complicated output for release.

 

Is it okay for an escort to enable his clients to cheat on his wife?

 

That is a very difficult question to answer. But to be fully honest we can look at it from the other side. Imagine that this husbands in question have been going to a therapist or even a priest to ask for help dealing with their angst about having to come to terms accepting who they are: they are gay. They loathe to have sex with their wives and because of the constant pressure of having to "be" someone that they are not, they end up resenting this and becoming abusive, unloving, harsh or in the best of cases vacant. The therapist or the priest then advise to have restraint, to show some will power and accept that they have already signed a commitment for life. They tell these men to stay and pretend and repent and hate themselves with the offering of a future reward somewhere else.

 

Is it okay for these counselors to enable these men to be abusive and repressed and unhappy, to make their wives unhappy and possibly expose them to fatal disease?

 

I am not defending either because I don't think either needs to be defended. Is anything okay? Well, that blank statement is impossible to answer. The only possible question to answer is "Is this okay FOR ME?"

 

Ask yourself this as often as you can, and never, ever do something that you find "not okay" for you to do. But when you try to extrapolate your findings to the others and start wondering what is best "for all of us" to do, sooner or later this becomes the middle east.

 

Is it correct for a waiter to serve cake to a morbidly obese gal?

It is correct for a pharmacist to sell sleeping pills to the suicidal?

Is it correct for people to drive cars after so many people have been killed by them?

Are family judges enabling the marriage haters by ruling on divorces?

 

 

In this culture that so desperately wants to put on blame on someone as soon as something happens, we easily forget that blame or guilt are something that not only are pernicious, destructive, they are also entirely useless. Nothing has ever changed or progressed fueled by guilt or shame.

 

The only think that has ever been an engine for transformation, either at personal level or global, is responsibility. And responsibility can never be put on someone. Responsibility is a reflexive noun. For responsibility to be the kind that promotes growth, it can only be self-assumed.

 

You say that you are not married nor an escort, but wonder about the okayness of those people's relationships. Truth is that you may not have a lot to contribute about that subject. I would be very interested to hear about things that are closer to the realm of your personal expertise. Share with us. Maybe we will find that fascinating.

 

Lastly, yes: I meet with married men as a job. My interest is mainly pecuniary.

 

I may also receive sexual gratification, amazing journeys to exotic destinations, the unspeakable fulfillment of seeing a man becoming more comfortable with who he is right in front of my eyes, marvelous gifts, great opera tickets, theatre, scuba diving trips, fine dinning, spa treatments... I could go on forever. But yes, this is my job.

 

Has any of my clients ended a relationship with his female partner on my tenure?

 

Yes, some have.

 

Do I feel guilty about that?

 

No. Sometimes I have felt very happy. Sometimes I felt a little apprehension, but it has never, ever been my responsibility. My only responsibility has been to perform my work as best as I can.

 

Am I ever looking to replace their wives?

 

No thanks.

 

It is okay for a man to have such an amazing job?

 

You are welcome to reach whatever conclusion you may want to.

 

I decide for myself. Yes, it is ok. I love my work, and when I go to bed every night, I feel at peace, excited, proud of who I am.

 

I would be very curious to hear about you, personally. Not about any other hypothetic moral issue. You are here with a group of open minded, curious men, you can use this time to talk about yourself.

 

I, for one, am all ears.

 

 

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

Athens, Greece

 

+30 694 268 9904

 

http://www.daddysreviews.com/review.php?who=juan_vancouver*

[Guest skrubber]

Is it right that gay men marry women?

[Guest greatness]

well

 

I usually look at their shoes and make some comments.. Gay escorts always respond with excitement. Straight escorts no response

 

the absence of a gay sensibility,

[leeper]

I see the word "right" bandied about in this thread. For those who view the world as being only black and white, that may mean something. To those of use who believe there is a lot of gray, it loses most of its meaning. One should not presume to understand why a gay man and straight woman decide to get married and stay together. One should not presume that the wife is unaware of the orientation and activities of her spouse. It is totally the business of the two individuals involved. An escort is an external party and bears no responsibility for the possible marital status of their clients. In fact, an occasional escort interaction may serve to strengthen a marriage that is based on so much more than sex and a narrow construct of fidelity.

[jgoo]

I tend to think of it this way, specifically focusing on whether or not it is right, accepting the premise that there is some enabling going on since by definition the escort does "help something to happen" (one of various definitions). If someone provides a service that they specifically know will foster self destructive behavior or bad outcomes, then it is not "right" IMHO. However, I don't think it is correct that escorts fall into this category because there are way too many variations with regard to impact/effect on the client that frankly the escort has no idea about. In many cases (my own for example), I believe the service they provide helps me in many positive ways.

 

We don't necessarily expect other service providers to understand the full impact of what they offer on the person using the service. A casino that offers legal gambling opportunities provides a service that may in fact be facilitating self destructive behavior. It is pretty much the case that we expect the individual using that service to take responsibility for their own actions and I think most don't believe casinos are wrong for enabling a person to gamble. There still will always be some who condemn gambling as fundamentally wrong and not much can be done to change that opinion, much the same as for escorting and the clients using the services.

[NYTomcat]

I see the word "right" bandied about in this thread. For those who view the world as being only black and white, that may mean something. To those of use who believe there is a lot of gray, it loses most of its meaning. One should not presume to understand why a gay man and straight woman decide to get married and stay together. One should not presume that the wife is unaware of the orientation and activities of her spouse. It is totally the business of the two individuals involved. An escort is an external party and bears no responsibility for the possible marital status of their clients. In fact, an occasional escort interaction may serve to strengthen a marriage that is based on so much more than sex and a narrow construct of fidelity.

 

Leeper welcome To the party. Where the hell Did someone as insightful as you come from. Where have you been hiding.

 

Romann Mark Juan. Really good show

[leeper]

Leeper welcome To the party. Where the hell Did someone as insightful as you come from. Where have you been hiding.

 

Romann Mark Juan. Really good show

I've been hanging around for a long time, but I only registered fairly recently and I only post when I think I have information to impart or can voice a view that is (a) relevant and (b) has not been adequately expressed by others. At its best, this forum can be incredibly useful and informative as well as entertaining. That is what I seek to support when I post.

[Guest Merlin]

I have had multi-year arrangemts with several married escorts in the past While the wives would probably have objected, the husbands were doing it only for the money, so it certainly did not endanger the wives' positions. They benefited from the money, and were not injured in any realistic way. If they had known, they might have allowed it to bother themselves emotionally, but they did not find out. I always felt it was a matter between the escort and his wife, and if the escort made the decision to meet, I could accept his decision without moral qualms.

[Boomer]

Escorts are providing a unique service and I don't think of them as enablers as they are not forcing anyone to have sex with them (unless that's been pre-arranged.) However, I do find it somewhat difficult to accept the phrase "married heterosexual" when they are haveing male-on-male sex with male escorts or any other man. As to whether or not adultery is good for a relationship that is often cultural. In certain societies, such as France, it's an acknowledged and often accepted practice. That's not necessarily the case in our puritanical culture. I think what deserves more consideration is what I percieve as the manipulation and deception toward the spouse (wife) for what I believe are selfish reasons. At some point, if the truth is revealed, I know if I were in that situatioin I would feel betrayed, manipulated and used.