Cluster of bad experiences

[Michael Vincenzo]

Because we frequently have discussions about escorts behaving badly, I feel that it is equally important to discuss client's bad behavior so that we have a better understanding of experiences on both sides of the client/escort relationship.

 

Here are a few of my most recent bad experiences:

 

I emailed a client the night before our appointment, reminding him of my rate and asking him to give me as much notice as possible in the event that anything changes on his end. This was his response to that email:

 

"rate is no problem and there won't be any changes i will make sure of that .. thanks for replying so quickly man.."

 

I showed up at the client's hotel in Orlando for our appointment. The client was not in the room, so I sent him a message telling him I would wait in the lobby for 30 minutes. 30 minutes later, I left the hotel, paid the $10 parking fee, and completed the 50 mile round trip trek home. I never heard back from the client until he contacted me later in the week, via an inquiry on Men4RentNow, with no mention of our previously scheduled appointment. I reminded him that he flaked on our appointment and this is the exact response that I received:

"FUCK.. I knew I had something I fucked up.. this meeting has been fucking nuts . I apologize... I was out with some clients and totally forgot... I will double pay you cause I am that type of guy buddy... honestly.."

 

During my last visit to Chicago, I had a client who purposely discounted my rate. This client had contacted me weeks prior to our appointment asking me to begin wearing socks because he had a stinky sock fetish. I wore the same socks to the gym for two weeks in a row to accommodate this particular client. My rates and his preferences were discussed in detail and weeks in advance. When he left my room, completely satisfied, I realized that he shorted my rate by $100. I caught him before he got on the elevator and asked him back to my room. When I confronted him, politely, about the shortage he replied that he never pays that much for an escort. This client had decided that my rate was negotiable, but of course not until after the appointment was over. I had no recourse other than to let him know, still being as polite as possible and without causing a scene, that his character was questionable.

 

I arrived in D.C. yesterday and I have already had two clients short me on my rate. Yesterday, one of my long term clients shorted me by $20 (in all fairness, that may have been an error, but my schedule didn't allow me to contact the client to return to my hotel for the shortfall). Today I had a client that shorted me by $40. When I realized there was a shortage, I called him and he hung up on me twice. Evidently, he did this on purpose.

 

I am getting the impression that my kindness is being mistaken for weakness. I have always been respectful and kind to my clients and I won't allow these few bad seeds to change my character; however, I now have a policy that the money will be counted before any repeat client leaves and with new clients, the money will be counted and placed in full view prior to the session starting. This is a policy that I used to follow in the past, but relaxed after reading an overwhelming amount of threads about money up front. In the event that anyone would like to rekindle the topic of payment up front, please exempt escorts who have a good reputation. I have never cheated or stolen from anyone, but I would be foolish to allow it to continue happening to me.

 

As far as a no show client situation is concerned, I am also making changes in how I operate to discourage that as well. Additionally, I would like my clients to be respectful of my schedule and I highly encourage clock watching. My schedule, beyond an agreed upon appointment length, is mine to decide. Although I do not book clients back to back, I am familiar with my rest, nourishment, and mental down-time requirements to assure that I am 100% prepared for any client that I meet.

 

The only way that I can continue to maintain my integrity is by requiring the same integrity from anyone that I share my time with. If anyone should disagree with my position, after reading the above mentioned experiences, then consider this fair warning that we will not be a good match. As for the many clients who have treated me respectfully, I continue to appreciate you and can assure you that this cluster of bad experiences will not change my character.

[josephga]

Just wondering do you finalize your appointments by phone? There will always be no shows but I think a persons less likely to stand you up if they know you have their number.

[Michael Vincenzo]

Just wondering do you finalize your appointments by phone? There will always be no shows but I think a persons less likely to stand you up if they know you have their number.

 

I do require a phone number to make an appointment, but I don't necessarily speak to potential clients by phone before meeting.

 

If a client is a no show, I will make one phone call as a reminder. I do not, however, call to harass the no show client. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in the event they had an emergency that prevented them from showing up for a confirmed appointment. I do save the phone number in my phone and label it as "NO CALL / NO SHOW". This served me well, just yesterday, when a client who stood me up on a previous visit to D.C. attempted to make an appointment.

[mmk123]

Michael, when are you coming to Pittsburgh? I see that you travel to Columbus every now and then. Any chance of a stop over to Pgh on your next trip?

[gregkidman]

A black list?

 

Michael,

Sorry to hear that some of your clients flaked out on you.

 

I vaguely remember that there is a mailing list or website where escorts can list no-show clients. Hopefully one of the escorts that frequent this forum can confirm or deny this.

 

I am a client. This is what I go through: I clean out my ass (not an easy task), take a bus and train, which takes about 1.5 hours, from NJ to go to NYC to meet up with an escort. I take a breath mint and wait. Hopefully the escort will not be late or not flake out and we have an hour or so together. I sometimes dash out the door so that I can catch the last train/bus combo back to my home.

 

The majority of the escorts that I meet are good, but one in a blue, I get an escort that is a no-show, or a no-performance type of guy. So, I make the trip back, left high-n-dry, wasting a good portion of my day.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that, I appreciate that Michael (and most escorts in general) makes an effort, please appreciate that I (and hopefully most clients) make an effort too.

[Guest Merlin]

In my experience, a majority of escorts call shortly before coming to make sure the client is there etc. I am not saying the no-show was your fault, it clearly was not. But calling on the way or before you start might have prevented this.

[Luv2play]

Michael, I fully sympathize with your position and don't blame you at all for changing your policy re payment in view of your recent bad experiences. Getting intentionally short-changed is not fair and is a form of stealing IMO. No-shows are equally bad behavior especially if at the very last minute as when you show up at the hotel and the client is not there. You have lost money in such a situation since you have gone to time and expense to get there and your opportunity cost has to be considered as well.

 

In the last month I have had two appointments with traveling American escorts in Montreal. I had never met either before and made initial contacts by e-mail when I saw theri Rentboy ads in the Montreal section. I made appontments by e-mail both times and had a phone conversation with the first but not the second.

 

On the night of the first appointment, the escorts in question (there were two) were 35 minutes late and I was just on the point of leaving my apartment as I thought I had been stood up. My reason for feeling this was that their hotel was just a five minute walk and I had given them precise directions of where to go. They had texted me several times in the few hours before saying they would be late but after the last text another hour went by and as I said they were now 35 minutes late.

 

I am so glad I did not leave my apartment as at that point a taxi drew up and out got the two guys. They had taken a taxi because they were running late and the taxi driver got lost. They had no way of reaching me by phone by this point. When I greeted them I was relieved and we quickly got over the fuss and had a wonderful appointment. I had hired them for 1 1/2 hours at an agreed rate and they actually stayed two full hours and then some which I only noticed when they left.

 

I had put their fees in two envelopes on a table by my front door and handed them to each of them on the way out. They did not look inside but merely thanked me and left. I was so glad I had had the opportunity to have some fun with them and they gave great service.

 

The second appointment several weeks later got off to a similar start with text messages saying he was running late. Eventually after two hours after the appointed time he texted to say he couldn't make it and so I agreed to an appointment for the next night, which was his last night in town. I asked him to confirm by e-mail or phone by 4pm the next day for our 8 o'clock appointment. I hadn't heard from him by 6 and e-mailed him. I got a message back saying he had changed his plans for the evening and he couldn't see me.

 

I was left high and dry on a Friday evening with no date. At least I was out no money but I still feel he let me down and I wouldn't consider hiring him again now that I have reflected on the experience.

 

BTW, all of these escorts have wonderful reviews on Daddy's site.

[gregkidman]

Left you high and dry.

 

I was left high and dry on a Friday evening with no date. At least I was out no money but I still feel he let me down and I wouldn't consider hiring him again now that I have reflected on the experience.

 

BTW, all of these escorts have wonderful reviews on Daddy's site.

 

The escort that left you high and dry -- I suspect that he got a higher offer. Which I think is bad business all around. Who was it?

[Michael Vincenzo]

In my experience, a majority of escorts call shortly before coming to make sure the client is there etc. I am not saying the no-show was your fault, it clearly was not. But calling on the way or before you start might have prevented this.

 

That's a great suggestion! I will keep that in mind. In one of the situations I mentioned, that may have helped, although not so much for the others.

 

After my original post last night, I had two additional no shows. I contacted both by phone when they didn't show up on time; one asked to reschedule and gave a very bizarre excuse and I left a voice mail message for the other letting him know that I wouldn't be answering my door 15 minutes beyond the appointment time unless I heard back from him.

 

Normally I would just roll with the punches, but this is obviously becoming a problem. I thought it would be a good point to discuss since there have been several threads about escort's policy or line of questioning prior to a meeting.

 

Maybe everyone is just depressed and the economy is bringing out the worst in people? The most important thing for me is to do my best to remain unaffected.

[jackcali]

Asking for money up front

 

Michael, sorry to hear about so many bad experiences recently. All the suggestions on this thread are great, but I'd like to go back to one question you raised in your initial post about asking for the money up front. It's an issue that has been discussed here before, and it seems that it doesn't matter at all to some people and it matters a lot to others. Many of the clients to whom it matters speak of the escort's implicit lack of trust that asking up front signals and also express worry that the escort is a scammer who's not going to perform once he's got the money in his hand.

 

I'm one of the clients to whom it matters a lot, but for a very different reason. Meeting escorts for me is an escape from my day-to-day life and all its worries about money and career, relationships, my getting older (and even less attractive than I was before), etc. When I meet an escort, my rational brain knows that the escort is only there because I'm paying him, but my sensual brain would like to forget that fact and experience the interaction in a different, more individual and less mercenary way. As a result, asking me for money at the beginning puts right in my face the thing I'm trying to ignore -- that I'm an ugly older guy who's paying money for sex with a hot young thing. Having that thought foremost in my mind significantly diminishes the experience for me, such that I would likely never go back to that escort again, even if our time together were otherwise great (which of course it probably wouldn't be because of what I'd be thinking about).

 

In terms of counting the money afterwards, I don't feel nearly as strongly. My own habit is to count the escort's fee out several times before we meet and to keep it in a pocket away from any other money I'm carrying. If I miscount (which I doubt I've ever done), I'd expect the escort to tell me, either immediately if he counted it while I was there or later via email or phone if we were already apart, and I would certainly make good on it, either at our next session or otherwise. (If the regular who underpaid you isn't willing to make good on his mistake, it gives you some insight as to how much he values your business relationship with him.)

 

Michael, perhaps I'm unique among potential clients and nobody else thinks like me (I hear that speculation all the time), but you should consider what your clients get out of their time with you (not what you do with them, but the experience they take away with them) before you change your policies concerning money.

 

Good luck to you. I hope the next thread you start is about a cluster of great experiences.

[justaguy]

Everything jackcali says about the awkwardness of the money is part of my experience. I'd have no problems with counting afterwards, as long as it didn't break the mood I'm trying to walk away with. Paying first sends the wrong message.

[Romann]

If a client is a no show, I will make one phone call as a reminder. I do not, however, call to harass the no show client. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in the event they had an emergency that prevented them from showing up for a confirmed appointment. I do save the phone number in my phone and label it as "NO CALL / NO SHOW". This served me well, just yesterday, when a client who stood me up on a previous visit to D.C. attempted to make an appointment.

 

I too use this method to screen supposed clients who had made arrangements in the past, don't show, don't call and don't email when an appointment has been made and later confirmed via phone and/or email. I have a LONG log of "DO NOT ANSWER/NO SHOW" numbers stored in my phone and it baffles me at how often those same callers will ring me, leave a message as if they never called before. It also is somewhat funny (but not really) that the messages they leave on my voice mail are requesting appointments again detailing me the same requests when they fully know they have called, confirmed and then did a complete "no show" without telling me for whatever reason. Oh well... all I can say to situations like that is that's part of the cost of doing business. I often wonder if these supposed clients continually make appointment requests forgetting who they have called just weeks before. When I have compared the voice mails, they're almost identical. Hmmm...

[josephga]

Iv had massage clients do that too. the file in my phone is labeled banned. banned guys would sometimes call over and over again. one day my phone showed up banned 3 times. so I answered and told him he couldn't get an appointment due to being listed as banned. His only response was fair deal and hung up.

[Kevin Slater]

The issue of requesting payment upfront comes up every few months on here. One of the last times another poster brought up the very good point that it introduces distrust at the exact moment that intimacy should be established. I said it reduces the likelihood of getting tipped. I make far more in tips than I loose in under- or non-payments.

 

Part of our jobs is to provide the client with a warm experience and sometimes a fantasy. Throwing the mercantile in his face from the first may not put some off but surely will others. To me, requesting the money upfront suggests the escort has had a hard time being paid before and makes me wonder if he's a scammer, exactly the situation where I wouldn't want to prepay. Every business knows it loses a percentage of revenue to bad accounts and shoplifting; they price that into the rate that everybody else pays. For me, that's the way to go.

 

Kevin Slater

[Guest SilverDollar]

no shows

 

I certainly sympathize with Michael regarding the recent no shows. I see a lot of escorts and have not heard similar stories so his recent run of bad luck does seem uncharacteristic to me. I have also been the victim of many no show escorts so it does run both ways. I would also add that while I understand why Michael might want to return to a money upfront policy, I have found that asking for money upfront not only sets a bad tone from the beginning, it is an almost unfailingly accurate predictor of a less than satisfactory escort experience. For me it has been and will remain a deal breaker.

[Michael Vincenzo]

I certainly recognize the reasoning against making payment up front, but I think it is a fair compromise that the money be put on a table in plain sight upon arrival. I am confident that I could relay someone back to the fantasy if the issue of money railroaded their fantasy momentarily.

 

I'm not interested in being intimate with someone who is a scammer, cheat, or thief. I do not accept this in my personal life and I refuse to accept it in a business sense. I would much rather forfeit the entire rate, and not spend time with someone of that character, than to compromise my integrity over accepting a short fall for a rate that was mutual agreed upon ahead of time. In any other business, the person who purposely refused to pay could be sued for breach of contract.

 

I'm not sure what compromise can be reached that would satisfy both parties involved. I can certainly understand both sides of this conversation, but the resolution I have proposed is what will work for me. If it doesn't work for a potential client, there are plenty of other escorts available.

[Michael Vincenzo]

I have found that asking for money upfront not only sets a bad tone from the beginning, it is an almost unfailingly accurate predictor of a less than satisfactory escort experience. For me it has been and will remain a deal breaker.

 

What if the escort has been around for 10 years and has a great reputation? Why does the escort always have to be in the position with the most vulnerability?

 

I think there is a compromise to consider on this subject for escorts who have a good reputation and have been around for a while. Personally, I think I've earned that trust.

[+ newatthis]

What if the escort has been around for 10 years and has a great reputation? Why does the escort always have to be in the position with the most vulnerability?

 

I think there is a compromise to consider on this subject for escorts who have a good reputation and have been around for a while. Personally, I think I've earned that trust.

 

Like many other subjects that come up over and over again in this forum (negotiating, "ask me", ...), there's no right way or right answer. The fact that Michael has operated without an "I need to see the money up front" policy for so long and now feels it necessary to change is proof of that. Those for whom money up front is a deal-breaker will not hire him. His good reputation will probably still assure him an ample supply of clients.

 

We all develop "policies" about what we'll do and not do based on our experiences. Sometimes we'll take a chance, or be impulsive, and move beyond those boundaries, perhaps to find we were being too careful, perhaps to rediscover why we made those rules for ourselves.

[+ g56whiz]

What if the escort has been around for 10 years and has a great reputation? Why does the escort always have to be in the position with the most vulnerability?

 

I think there is a compromise to consider on this subject for escorts who have a good reputation and have been around for a while. Personally, I think I've earned that trust.

 

The answer to your question is: he doesn't. But you don't may have the blanket right to assume that you've earned that trust with everyone. The question is: with whom? With your past clients - no doubt. With the knowledgeable marketplace in general (those that follow this site and other sites like it): probably. With everyone else, maybe you still must do so new client by new client That's just the way the interaction works.

 

For some of us, there is a good deal of purchasing a fantasy involved in hiring and escort and that fantasy is allergic to anything concerning money until the service has been provided. I make sure there's an envelope containing the agreed upon sum out in plain sight with escort's name upon it. Anything else destroys what I seek to create. If this is not acceptable I move on to another provider.

 

I corresponded with a well known well travelled and highly regarded escort about a meeting at a specific time about a month in advance while he was in New York. I had responded to a several long questionnaires from him about what I sought. I agreed upon a two hour engagement at his top dollar price only to receive an email from him a week beforehand explaining that if needed him to ejaculate during our meeting there would be an additional $100 surcharge on top of his exorbitant fee. I wrote back to say that it probably was not crucial to me but the thought of there being such a surcharge had sucked out whatever fantasy I may have desired from our meeting. I cancelled.

 

With ten years in the biz Michael, you must know that is the marketing risk you take. Good luck.

[josephga]

I personally don't see anything wrong with seeing the money up front . from what iv read on other boards female escorts normally require the money left out in a visual sight and their clients don't complain or whine about it. I don't see why its a issue lf males had the same rule

[instudiocity]

Michael, I think you're right. I ALWAYS have a phone call with my escort within in a few hours of the appointment and in that call I tell him where to look for the cash when he enters. If he moves to count it or pocket it - the appointment is immediately canceled. If we engage in our fun and I trully enjoyed him, the pile of cash GROWS. IF it was just an OK appointment and I'm not interested in seeing the escort again, the fee remains for him to pick up.

[gp0560]

Variation on a Theme

 

Here's a different take on the "when to pay" question. In the past, when I took business trips and hired without much lead time, I left the money fanned out on a table. No one ever mentioned money, and a good time was had, by me at least.

 

Now that I don't travel and have to fly someone in, I hire only the best-reviewed, most experienced guys. At the beginning of the first day, we count out the money together and I leave it with them. The reason for this is that I'm after a boyfriend experience and don't want to spoil it at the end with the financial part. Some may think I'm naive and careless to work it this way, but these guys are the best, and no one has let me down yet.

[Michael Vincenzo]

I think I can compromise by requiring the money to be in sight with new clients and not repeat clients. I am pretty sure that a repeat client would not purposely short change me on my rate.

 

If someone is really concerned about the money up front, and they can refer me to a history of online participation in these forums, this option could be negotiable.

 

Does that sound like a reasonable compromise?

 

Anyone who hires me can destroy my reputation if my behavior is anything other than professional. I have no recourse if someone short changes my rate and would be foolish if I didn't implement some measure of caution to prevent being swindled. Although it is not a 100% guarantee that someone will enjoy their time with me, clients can refer to online reviews, photos, videos, DVDs, and online conversations as a reference.

 

I reiterate that normally I wouldn't make a fuss about these recent experiences, but I am noticing that the frequency of these things happening is increasing. I'm not one to sit back and say "that's just how it is!" If something is wrong, find a solution.

[SmallTownJohn]

I Feel Your Pain

 

Clients ask me over and over and over...what is THE most difficult parts of escorting?

 

I always give the same answers:

 

Trying to get a client to actually show up(no shows/cancellations)

 

Establishing time/date/place/phone contact

 

Deflecting/deciphering which stranger is bullshitting me online/phone(Oh, the tall tales and the Young & Restless-styled drama!!)

 

It is A-MAZING the amount of time guys spend creating and playing games. I could not imagine fucking around with another man's time and money regardless of occupation...not in my mindset.

 

Things would be so hot AND so chill in our escorting world if dudes could get and keep their shit together...wow!

 

It's a daily battle lol

[Guest mvan1]

 

"I have no recourse if someone short changes my rate and would be foolish if I didn't implement some measure of caution to prevent being swindled."

 

"I reiterate that normally I wouldn't make a fuss about these recent experiences, but I am noticing that the frequency of these things happening is increasing. I'm not one to sit back and say "that's just how it is!" If something is wrong, find a solution."

 

 

While I can understand your feelings about your stream of bad luck, I think you might not have given sufficient consideration to the economic downturn which may have played a small roll in those events.

 

I fear that you might loose a lot of future business unless you reassess your new rules.

 

With the economy in the tank, you are competing for fewer clients. True, you will get money up front from the clients you engage, but you might lose a lot more clients than you anticipate.

 

Many people do not like being distrusted. Requiring payment up front implies distrust and often lessens the excitement of an encounter.

 

Based on your reviews, you are much nicer than your posts make you seem.