STOCK BAR POOL

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

"You are correct: the dates before it are in the past.

 

However, they are not past the opening date."

 

Hummm, I'm not clear on what you mean... If Mr. Webster defines past as in relationship to time as:

 

1. gone by in time

2. having ended just before the present time

3. earlier or former

 

then why would you say they are not past the opening date?

 

If the opening date turns out to be July 23rd, won't, according to Mr. Webster, all the dates earlier than 7/23 be considered past the opening date and therefore disqualified?

 

Cooper

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

Nope. :-)

 

Those dates are fixed in time. We are moving along with the current date. But 7/22/2006 will never be past 7/23/2006. As a date, it will always precede 7/23/2006.

 

I wish I could make some dates come forward relative to others... I'd move my birthday forward about ten years and, in the doing, make a younger me!

 

I see from the calendar that it's now 7/23/2006. I hope that the real subject of all this discussion, the opening of Stock, goes well. I like that place.

 

BG

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

BG, Maybe it's just the late hour, but that was truly a very weak answer to my question. All your previous b'days are in the past. You can't change that. All the dates before 7/23/06 are also in the past. If Stock actually opens on 7/23, and we all hope it does, then any date before that is considered a past date. Your argument is now with Mr. Webster's definition and not me.

 

Happy we can agree on the good times provided by the Stock dancers.

 

Cooper

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

OK, let me try again. :-)

 

The English word "past" -- like many English words -- has many meanings and can also be used as different parts of speech. I think that is key to the misunderstanding here.

 

The definition you have supplied for "past", above, is most assuredly a correct definition for the the word "past". But it's not the right correct definition.

 

The definition you have given is the adjectival definition for past -- meaning, the definition of the word when it is used as an adjective. For example, "his youth is past" -- meaning that it existed in the past. That's clearly a correct use of "past" but it's not the right one for us.

 

The rules state "the winner will be the person who selects the actual opening date, or if no one has selected the actual opening date, the winner will be the person who comes closest to the actual opening date WITHOUT GOING PAST IT". The original author of the rules capitalized "WITHOUT GOING PAST IT" -- indicating the importance of that section.

 

In this context, "past" is used not as an adjective but as an adverb. This changes the meaning of "past". As an adverb, past means "So as to pass by or go beyond."

 

With that in mind, we can rewrite his original rule -- without changing its meaning -- as: the winner will be the person who selects the actual opening date, or if no one has selected the actual opening date, the winner will be the person who comes closest to the actual opening date WITHOUT GOING BEYOND IT.

 

Eliminating the word "past" makes it clear that the contest originator intended the winner to be a person whose date did not go beyond the actual opening date -- meaning the winning date must necessarily precede the opening date in time. And that makes Taz the winner if Stock opens up in the immediate future. }(

 

BG

[tazmanian5230]

THE PRIZE SOLUTION !!

 

OK, I think I figured out a solution, we get LustinGuy and LikemBig to Stock ASAP for the opening on Sunday.

 

There favorite dancers oil each of them up and they WRESTLE on Stocks brand new current (not past) stage.

 

I just left the club again, all the new lights will look great on there oiled bodys. The 3 HUGH Plasma screens will make it easy to see anywhere in the club.

 

The winner of the wrestling match will get $60.00 from me after the match. The looser will get the $60.00 prize from the opening date contest.

 

We will all win !!

Stock opens, Lustin gets his 60 and Likembig gets his 60.

 

}( }( }( }( }(

 

 

>OK, let me try again. :-)

>

>The English word "past" -- like many English words -- has many

>meanings and can also be used as different parts of speech. I

>think that is key to the misunderstanding here.

>

>The definition you have supplied for "past", above, is most

>assuredly a correct definition for the the word "past". But

>it's not the right correct definition.

>

>The definition you have given is the adjectival definition for

>past -- meaning, the definition of the word when it is used as

>an adjective. For example, "his youth is past" -- meaning

>that it existed in the past. That's clearly a correct use of

>"past" but it's not the right one for us.

>

>The rules state "the winner will be the person who selects the

>actual opening date, or if no one has selected the actual

>opening date, the winner will be the person who comes closest

>to the actual opening date WITHOUT GOING PAST IT". The

>original author of the rules capitalized "WITHOUT GOING PAST

>IT" -- indicating the importance of that section.

>

>In this context, "past" is used not as an adjective but as an

>adverb. This changes the meaning of "past". As an adverb,

>past means "So as to pass by or go beyond."

>

>With that in mind, we can rewrite his original rule -- without

>changing its meaning -- as: the winner will be the person who

>selects the actual opening date, or if no one has selected the

>actual opening date, the winner will be the person who comes

>closest to the actual opening date WITHOUT GOING BEYOND IT.

>

>Eliminating the word "past" makes it clear that the contest

>originator intended the winner to be a person whose date did

>not go beyond the actual opening date -- meaning the winning

>date must necessarily precede the opening date in time. And

>that makes Taz the winner if Stock opens up in the immediate

>future. }(

>

>BG

}(

[LustinGuy]

RE: THE PRIZE SOLUTION !!

 

Just got back from another sneak peek of Stock with Taz... happy to see more progress. While I very much appreciate BG's eloquent arguments (which now seem correct to me), I will admit that my original understanding when I made my guess (based on a casual reading of the rules) was the same as Cooper's. I therefore concede to Likembig and wish him a wonderful time with whichever dancer he chooses to spend the money on.

My reward is being able to attend the opening tomorrow (which happens to be very close to the date I guessed :+ )

So let's get back to talking about strip clubs and beautiful boys

But if I ever need a lawyer to represent me on a vaguely written contract I'm calling BG!

[Boston Guy]

RE: THE PRIZE SOLUTION !!

 

LOL

 

You, Sir, are a gentleman! :-)

 

Sorry to confuse the dates and try to give your prize away to Taz!! But your proposed solution is generous and definitely in keeping with the spirit of the gentleman who proposed the contest in the first place. :-)

 

BG

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

"...Eliminating the word "past" makes it clear that the contest

originator intended the winner to be a person whose date did not go beyond the actual opening date -- meaning the winning date must necessarily precede the opening date in time. And

that makes Taz the winner..."

 

BG, You are such a hoot. :-)

 

First off, it was your choice not to participate in this contest, yet, you found it necessary to re-write the rules to support your position, then claim to speak for Northwoods, the contest originator, by telling us what he actually meant, and then, even before the Stock reopens, you announce the winner. What's next, dipping into your pockets to send the prize? Unbelieveable! :-)

 

Getting serious, I received an e-mail from Northwoods, and yes, he is a true gentleman. He was sorry for any misunderstanding of his rules and will post his position shortly. Like me, he was hoping this could have been a fun contest and not get side-tracked by discussions on the rules.

 

With all due respect for Northwoods, I think the gentlemanly thing to do is to let him announce the winner once Stock officially reopens. Afterall, this was his idea.

 

Suggestion to BG, if in the future you'd like to organize a "pool", let me know and I'll fill you in on what it involves.

 

C :-) :-) p e r

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

Sorry, Coop, but you started it.

 

You decided to strike people off the list as the days passed by. I don't see any post where it's stated "Northwoods asked me to strike these people off the list." Do you? The presumption that the reader must take from the information in this thread is that you set yourself up as the contest moderator. If you intended something else, then you should have stated that.

 

Tas questioned your decision yesterday morning at 8:57 am. You responded by saying that the rules were clear. I felt you were wrong and explained why. You disagreed, even resorting to pulling out the dictionary and quoting its definition of past.

 

I think it's pretty clear that your interpretation of the rules is not correct. It's entirely possible that your interpretation of the rules is what Northwoods intended but I don't think it's supported by the rules as they were written.

 

Based on your latest reply, I assume that you now understand why your original interpretation of the rules was not correct. No big deal, right? The gentlemanly thing would have been to reply "Oh, I see, sorry, I was looking at it a different way." Or even "Ok, I understand now how you guys were looking at it but I don't really think that's correct." Instead, your response shouts out loud for several paragraphs, accusing me of disrupting the contest and rewriting the rules.

 

Northwoods could have stepped into this discussion at any time. He chose not to. So you just assumed that the rest of us should take your word for what the rules were, without anything other than "Yes, sir, I'm sorry for questioning you."? Discussion of the rules isn't allowed, huh?

 

Well, sorry, Coop, but this is a discussion board. Discussing things is what we do here. Fair play is important to me, even in a what is just a fun contest (and is still a fun contest). You set yourself up as the contest moderator and interpreter of the rules and you made a bad ruling. And then you resisted when your ruling was questioned by Tas. Since I agreed with Tas, I decided to help you understand why at least two of us felt you were reading the rules incorrectly.

 

I guess you didn't like that, huh?

 

Not shouting back.

BG

[Guest Rendie]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

I have a question. My countdown clock says "It is 3 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes and 12 seconds since Wednesday, July 19, 2006 at 6:00:00 PM (Québec time)". Is that PAST?? Does that mean I lost the pool?

}( }( }(

 

 

enjoy

Rendie

[LustinGuy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

No doubt, July 19 is in the past. But thats not the question: The way the rules are worded (which I now understand from carefully reading BG's posts) requires the winner to select a date that is not past (after) the opening date. I still suspect thats not what the author intended but we're talking about how to interpret what he wrote. I think its fair to say, at a minimum, that BG's way of looking at it is one valid interpretation.

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

BG, Thanks for making it perfectly clear as to why you are posting on this thread. You certainly have a lot of issues.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are absolutely wrong with your interpretation of the rules. When I contacted Northwoods for a clarification, he told me his interpretation was the same as mine and that 8/15 looks to be the winning date. He also went on to say he was very sorry this has caused controversy. As for why he didn't post this himself, I'll let him explain when he can, for it involves personal information...

 

However BG, no apology is necessary, your words in the previous reply tell the whole story.

 

Cooper

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

In case it wasn't clear, I wasn't apologizing. I wasn't the one who started shouting.

 

And in terms of being "absolutely wrong", I may be "absolutely wrong" in knowing what Northwoods had in mind for his contest. He could have posted something here at any time to end the controversy. Or he could have announced that you were the final arbiter of the rules when he set it up.

 

But what he did write -- the rules -- was written in pretty darned clear English -- English that did not and does not support your interpretation.

 

As for issues, well, I guess if wanting to see things run fairly amounts to having issues, well, then, I guess yes, I do have issues.

 

BG

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

"As for issues, well, I guess if wanting to see things run fairly amounts to having issues, well, then, I guess yes, I do have issues."

 

Well, I'm happy you recognize the fact that you have personal issues... As for "things running fairly", I guess they are, because no one, other than you, seems to have a problem here. Hopefully, you'll find something of interest to post about that actually relates to the SCF.

 

Cooper

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

I'm always willing to stand up for the little guy, Coop.

 

And, by the way, resorting to personal attacks is a long-honored way for Internet posters to try to save face when they know they've lost the argument. First you shout and then you attack. You really don't like to be wrong, do you?

 

BG

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

"I'm always willing to stand up for the little guy, Coop."

 

I guess my standing up for the little guy is more obvious than yours... but okay, if you say so.

 

 

"And, by the way, resorting to personal attacks is a

long-honored way for Internet posters to try to save face when

they know they've lost the argument."

 

Are you referring to your personal attacks against me, for I can't define anything I've posted as a personal attack against you. Btw, don't worry, I don't care that you lost the argument. Just don't go around changing words in the rules to support your position, or saying you are speaking for someone when you haven't even contacted them, or announcing the winner of the pool when Stock hasn't even reopend.

 

 

First you shout and then

>you attack. You really don't like to be wrong, do you?

 

 

Oh, don't be sooo dramatic. Shouting is written in CAPS! I haven't used any but you have. :-) ... As for not liking to be wrong. Again I think that applies more to you. As for me, I'm always taking the blame for others.

 

As for you BG, I guess you like to get the last word in. So, go for it. I'm happy you've finally found a place to vent all your bottled up feelings about me. Yes, it's quite obvious.

 

Cooper

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

>Oh, don't be sooo dramatic. Shouting is written in CAPS! I

>haven't used any but you have. :-) ... As for not liking to

>be wrong. Again I think that applies more to you. As for me,

>I'm always taking the blame for others.

>

>As for you BG, I guess you like to get the last word in.

>So, go for it. I'm happy you've finally found a place to vent

>all your bottled up feelings about me. Yes, it's quite

>obvious.

>

>Cooper

>

>

 

CAPS are old-school, 1990's. In HTML, writing in all bold text is considered shouting. Gotta keep up, Coop.

 

And finally (since we both now agree this discussion should end), I hate to burst your bubble, but I have absolutely no feelings about you one way or the other. I don't know you. You seem a competent and generally fair moderator. That's as far as my feelings go.

 

BG

[Cooper]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

"CAPS are old-school, 1990's. In HTML, writing in all bold text is considered shouting. Gotta keep up, Coop."

 

LOL...Usually Barry keeps me up to date on the latest HTML trends. He's the one who showed me how to use "strike" ;-).... Well, I guess you now realize I wasn't knowingly shouting at you. Just trying to separate my answer from yours. LOL, hope no one else took offense with my bold print. I've been doing it for years. Btw, does using italics mean anything?

 

 

"And finally (since we both now agree this discussion should end), I hate to burst your bubble, but I have absolutely no feelings about you one way or the other. I don't know you."

 

Don't know if I should be offended by that.

 

"You seem a competent and generally fair moderator. That's as far as my feelings go."

 

You must have me confused with someone else, but thanks anyway, compliments don't come easy on this m/c.

 

So BG, it definitely was an experience. Unfortunately, I won't be able to engage in an exchange like this again. I have a higher authority to answer to around here.

 

So, in closing, I look forward to reading more of your posts. You have always given freely your wisdom and guidance to the members of this m/c.

 

Cooper

[NorthWoods]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

Gentlemen-

 

Two apologies:

 

First, please forgive my imprecise rules. I never intended there to be hard feelings, and I do recognize that the fault is my own.

 

Additionally, I'm sorry to have left Cooper to answer all questions and bear the brunt of my mistake. I have been revovering from a minor malady and have been away from the computer (I honestly believed the contest would extend into the fall!).

 

My intention, however, was exactly as Cooper has interpreted the rules.

 

Again, I do apologize.

 

-NorthWoods

 

PS. Can STOCK really open tonight? Exciting!

[Luv2play]

RE: The Rules are perfectly clear

 

I'm glad to hear from you and I do intend to go over and see the action tonight at Stock. I was there several hours ago and they were still working on the entrance way (and I guess inside as well but I could only see so far).

 

When I first read about the contest, I read the rules as stating that if the day you chose came and went and Stock was still closed, then you were out of the contest. BG decided to make another interpretation, which was possible to do from a strict construction of the language, but I don't know why he continued to make an issue of it when Cooper clarified the rules. I guess he just has a litigious nature, something I find unbecoming amongst gentlemen intent on just having a good time. As Shakespeare said, "first, kill all the lawyers"! :7

[Lookin]

RE: Thoughts from Shakespeare

 

< As Shakespeare said, "first, kill all the lawyers"! >

 

 

He also said a few other things that make me think the Bard may have been no stranger to the Merry Olde Strip Clubs:

 

 

"What a piece of work is man!" - Hamlet

"Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look." - Julius Caesar

"Is this a dagger which I see before me?" - Macbeth

"Oh, what men dare do!" - Much Ado About Nothing

"I follow him to serve my turn upon him." - Othello

"Now go we in content." - As You Like It

"Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em." - Twelfth Night

 

 

Have a great time guys! I'll be home clothing my naked villany. And waiting for the dawn's first reports.

[NorthWoods]

Stockbar has opened!

 

Congratulations likembig -- you are the winner of the pool!

 

I hope you choose to "reinvest" your winnings in this venerable establishment!

 

-NorthWoods

[Cooper]

Congratulations likembig -- you are the winner of the pool!

 

What a great guy to win this pool. Put the prize to good use.

 

Also, thanks to Northwoods for his fine pool and generous prize. Hope your recovery is going well. Maybe our paths will cross in MTL.

 

Cooper

[NorthWoods]

My pleasure -- and I hope we will have the chance to meet in Montreal!

 

All of us!

 

-North

[LustinGuy]

Congratulations to Likembig! Stock is better than ever!