Permanent visa

[maurice_ed]

I am presently trying to get the permanent visa in Brazil. As mentionned by Trilingual in another thread, there are several ways to get it, as least in theory: 1- show evidence of a retirement pension of a minimum of 2000 US dollars per month; 2- Invest a minimum of 50.000 US dollars with creation of a minimum of 10 jobs in Brazil. I was advised against this 2nd method since it would imply endless bureaucracy and a file which would be lost in an office of a ministry in Brazilia with very little chance to get out.

 

The 1rst method cannot operate in my case since I am not retired although if could be the case in 2 and a half years.

 

The 3rd and last way is to get married. Several people have advised me this method while others have warned me against the risks: My 'wife' could try to get money inreasonably, threaten me if I refuse with the help of attorneys she could easily get without paying them, etc...

 

I am a bit puzzied by all this, the least I can say.:-(

[trilingual]

My understanding is that retirement visas are easy to get (if you meet the qualifications). The last time I inquired, I was told the consulates can approve the visas themselves, rather than having to send everything to Brasilia for approval.

 

I don't know what the procedures for an investor's visa are (other than the US$50K and 10-job requirements). I've been told that it's a good idea to consult an immigration lawyer in Brazil about this. Even though you have to apply in your home country, the visas are approved in Brasilia, and you need someone here who knows the system and has contacts in Brasilia to keep pushing and prodding to get it through the bureaucracy. Otherwise, it could be a long wait.

 

Marriage is another possibility. In this case, you would also need a Brazilian lawyer to create a marriage contract between you and your spouse that would protect your assets. As in most civil law countries, pre-nuptial agreements are common, and you would need one to keep your assets separate after marriage. You'll also need a lawyer to understand your other obligations. Even with an agreement you may be obliged to pay alimony after a divorce, and half of your Brazilian estate, by law, would go to your wife or children. There may be ways around this, but you would need an experienced Brazilian family-law lawyer to advise you.

 

While same-sex marriage is not yet legal in Brazil, the courts have recognized such relationships for purposes of inheritance and pension rights, child custody, and immigration. The immigration department has issued procedures for obtaining a permanent residence visa as a same-sex partner of a Brazilian citizen. Again, you'll need legal advice about the actual application process and about protecting your assets. My general understanding is that at present such relationships are treated as the equivalent of common-law marriages or as concubinage (a remnant from the days when there was no legal divorce and men separated from their wives and began new families). Unlike marriage, my understanding is that a partner in such a relationship does not have an automatic claim to half your estate, but rather has a claim proportional to what he contributed economically to the relationship. In other words, if you were your partner's sole source of support and he didn't work, he might not have any claim at all against you. However, you need to confirm this with an experienced Brazilian family-law lawyer.

 

It's possible that civil unions will be legalized in Brazil in the not-so-distant future. The immigration laws are undergoing a comprehensive review with an eye towards a new immigration law making things easier for most people. You'll want to keep your eyes open for changes (like the recent ones about same-sex partners and reducing the amounts required for an investor's visa).

 

Finally, consult with a Brazilian tax lawyer or reputable accounting firm about your tax liabilities in Brazil before becoming a resident. Brazilian income tax is high, and it is levied against residents' world-wide income. There is no "double taxation," as long as your home country applies the same principle. That means that if you have to pay tax in your home country, and the amount you pay there is less than what you'd have to pay Brazil, you would only pay Brazil the difference between what you paid at home and what you owe Brazil (or vice-versa if your home country's tax is higher). You don't pay the full tax amount in both countries.

 

Residents of a number of countries may enjoy additional benefits if their country has a tax treaty with Brazil, like exemption of taxes in Brazil on public pension benefits in the other country. There is no tax treaty between Brazil and the U.S., so Americans are mostly out of luck. There are tax treaties between Brazil and Canada and with many Western European countries (but not the U.K.). If you're a resident of one of those countries, and that's where your income is from, consult the tax authorities there for a copy of the applicable treaty in your own language so you can see what benefits might apply in your case.

 

Becoming a permanent resident of Brazil is a possibility that intrigues many of us, but you need to be aware of all the implications before you make your decision. You don't want to do this blindly and find out you've made an expensive mistake!

 

For tax advice in Brazil, I consulted with Ernst & Young's Brazilian office in Botafogo. Ernst & Young is the "author" of the daily tax question column in "O Globo" that appears each year during the Brazilian tax season (New Year's to April 30).

 

I haven't consulted with an immigration or family law attorney myself, but Carlo Romano would be able to refer you to some reliable lawyers. If you're in the U.S. or Canada, you can also go to any large public or law library and look in the last volume of the Martindale-Hubble legal directory for listings of large law firms in Rio. Look for firms and lawyers that offer specialties in immigration, family and tax law. I don't know if Martindale-Hubble is easily available in other countries, although the library of a U.S. embassy may have a copy that you could consult.

[CT Dick]

Isn't he amazing!

 

Dick

[maurice_ed]

Thanks indeed. I need to study your information in detail. I am a french citizen and there is a tax agreement between France and Brazil.

[trilingual]

In that case, you may be able to find the French text of the treaty on the website of the tax authority in France. It's very common for such treaties to exempt public (government) pensions from one country from taxation in the other. So if you're retiring from a government job you'd only pay tax on your pension in France, but not in Brazil. The Italian treaty also has a provision that says that rental income from properties in Italy is taxable only in Italy, and not in Brazil. Perhaps there's a similar provision in the French treaty, or something else that might help you! Another common provision exempts social security retirement income from one country from being taxed in the other. If any such provisions apply in your case, you really don't have anything to worry about from the Brazilian tax authorities, unlike us unfortunate Americans! :-( You can go ahead and plan on getting a retirement visa as soon as you're eligible.

 

In general, the treaties only benefit individuals by making clear that there is no double taxation, and most of the provisions relate to business issues. But every treaty is different, so you might find something that applies to your situation.

 

Attention, SVP: Even if you DO have a public pension or other income that's not taxable in Brazil because of a tax treaty, you still have to file an annual income tax return here. You'll need to find a Brazilian tax preparer who knows where and how to enter the fact that you're exempt because of provision such-and-such of the Brazil-France tax treaty.

[imrthr]

>If you're in the U.S. or Canada, you can

>also go to any large public or law library and look in the

>last volume of the Martindale-Hubble legal directory for

>listings of large law firms in Rio. Look for firms and

>lawyers that offer specialties in immigration, family and tax

>law. I don't know if Martindale-Hubble is easily available in

>other countries, although the library of a U.S. embassy may

>have a copy that you could consult.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

It is not necessary to go to a library or embassy to access Martindale-Hubble. If you click on this link

 

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/home.xml

 

you will find in the center of the screen a section titled "countries." Simply scroll down until you see Brazil and then click on "search" which will bring up 3,137 lawyers who practice in Brazil. If you fine-tune your search, you should be able to locate an attorney in Rio or other parts of Brazil that specializes in immigration and other areas of law you might desire.

[Guest ihpguy]

Amazing isn't the only word. After having lunch with Tri, and spending some time with him, I think gentleman is a nicer one.

It was a pleasure getting to know him a little.

[maurice_ed]

I have the tax agreement between Brazil and France. I analyzed it with the help of friends and it raises no problem.

 

I plan to see an attorney as suggested by Trilingual. I am presently in Salvador and a friend of mine (brazilian) told me that if somebody has been living with a girl for 5 years; in case they separate, the girl can get half of the guy's property befor the courts.

[trilingual]

Please DO talk to a good family-law lawyer. As in every country, there are a lot of non-lawyers who think they know the law, but don't. You will need to get the facts directly from someone who's an expert. If you're in Salvador, you may be able to get a referral from the Grupo Gay da Bahia for a local lawyer who's knows Brazilian marriage law and how the latest jurisprudence treats long-term same-sex relationships. If there's a French Consulate in Salvador they may be able to refer you to an attorney, also. If you pick up a copy of "G Magazine," you will probably find a couple of advertisements from attorneys in São Paulo who specialize in law as it relates to gay people. When it comes to marriage law in Brazil, just remember that this is an area that is evolving quite rapidly, and what may be true today may change in the near future, so you will have to pay attention to the changes!

 

In the past few weeks I read in a legal advice column that in the separation of an unmarried couple the property is divided on a proportional basis, as I mentioned earlier. However, the way a couple is treated may depend on how long they've been together and whether either of them is still married to another person. Because of its vast size, there are many places in Brazil without a civil registry where couples can get formally married. As a result, Brazil recognizes "common law" or "de facto" marriages when a couple has been living together openly as being married for a certain number of years (perhaps 5) and particularly if they've had children together. If a couple is considered married "de facto," then standard provisions of the Civil Code regarding marital property may apply. At least some Brazilian courts have treated long-term same-sex relationships as "de facto" marriages. Of course, in a formal legal or "de jure" marriage the Civil Code provisions apply as of the effective date of the marriage. As you can see, the situation is complicated and requires an expert to explain how it applies to your particular situation.

 

The Brazilian Civil Code was revised in the past few years, inspired in part by the Québec Civil Code, and my understanding is that the standard, default marriage regime in Brazil is now a partial community of property. In other words, in the absence of a pre-nuptial agreement determining some other arrangement, this is the one that applies. In a partial community of property, each spouse maintains separate ownership of their property acquired prior to the marriage. Only property acquired after the the couple is married is considered community property. In Brazil, unlike Québec, I believe that couples can't agree to a change in regime after they've been married. Again, please consult a lawyer to be sure all of this is accurate!

 

On the whole, I would NOT recommend marrying someone just to obtain a permanent residence visa when there are other, less entangling options available, like the retirement or investor's visas. Keep in mind that French and Brazilian law are similar, so if you know what the law would be in France for someone in your situation, it's probably the same in Brazil, or very close.

 

I forgot, but for someone who wishes to stay in Brazil for an extended period without necessarily staying here permanently, another option is a student visa, which you can obtain if you are enrolled in a Portuguese for Foreigners course at an accredited university (not one of the commercial language schools). You can always apply later for a permanent residence visa if you decide to stay for good!

[imrthr]

>

>I forgot, but for someone who wishes to stay in Brazil for an

>extended period without necessarily staying here permanently,

>another option is a student visa, which you can obtain if you

>are enrolled in a Portuguese for Foreigners course at an

>accredited university (not one of the commercial language

>schools). You can always apply later for a permanent

>residence visa if you decide to stay for good!

 

_________________________________________________________

Enrollment in an accredited Brazilian university sounds like a logical way to circumvent the 180 stay requirements if one also wants to learn to speak Portuguese. However, the cost of such a program for nonresidents is quite high. I have copied certain portions of the catalog from the University of Sao Paulo which will give you an idea what to expect if you were to choose this route to avoid leaving Brazil after the annual 180 days expire.

 

For example, CIEE Study Center at Universidade de Sao Paulo offers the following:

 

"Description:

The program was established in 1973 and has been administered by CIEE since 1989. The semester program begins with a five-week Intensive Language and Culture Program (ILCP), held in Salvador da Bahia for the fall semester and in São Paulo for the spring semester. During this five-week period, students are introduced to the country, culture, and academic program and receive practical information about living in Brazil. The ILCP is designed to develop linguistic skills as well as promote greater comprehension of contemporary Brazilian realities and prepare students for academic work at the university."

 

"During the ILCP, students are placed in intensive Portuguese language classes at an appropriate level. Students who are near native speakers of Spanish may be placed in a Portuguese for Spanish speakers course offered based on enrollment. In addition, students enroll in the CIEE course, Contemporary Brazil."

 

Academic Culture

While U.S. students are accustomed to a very structured academic system, Brazilian professors generally leave students on their own to determine the intensity of their work–an approach which is geared toward the scholar who is motivated, self-sufficient, and deeply interested in the subject matter of the course. It is a more rigorous, autonomous academic system.

 

"While some U.S. students could misperceive that the workload is light and that there are very few assignments, students are given bibliographies for courses with the expectation that they read as many of the listings as possible, selecting those titles which most specifically meet their needs and interests. In some courses, the entire grade is based on a term paper or critical analysis of a particular article that is expected to be based upon a fairly extensive reading from the bibliography. This relative freedom places a great deal of responsibility on the student."

 

"Program cost in US$: $9,600/$18,800 depending on whether you want housing and meals included in your fee. This fee is payable each year."

 

Due to the fact that there is not a lot of Americans (U.S.) in Brazil, there is not much demand for such a language course. This is one of the reasons the University of Sao Paulo rotates these courses between Salvador and Sao Paulo.

 

Does anyone know of another accredited university in Brazil that offers a similar but more reasonable fee for a Portuguese language program for foreigners?

[trilingual]

PUC-Rio (the well-regarded Catholic university in Rio) offers a Portuguese for Foreigners course. Check out http://www.puc-rio.br/ensinopesq/ccci/estconv.html

[imrthr]

You are a warehouse of useful information! Thank you for the link to the school.

[maurice_ed]

Thanks again. Your information is very detailed. I need to study it more carefully. There is another point: The moving company which would be in charge of moving my furniture would not do it unless I have the proper visa. Now if I consider settling here without having the proper permanent visa, I must check with them what kind of visa they want for moving my furniture.

 

Also, I was told that one should absolutely avoid moving part of the furniture and attempt later to move more because for the first moving one may move with reduced taxes but after that they can become huge.

[trilingual]

It's true that you should send all the furniture at once if you get a permanent resident visa to benefit from the Customs exemption on personal effects for arriving new residents. ANY kind of permanent resident visa qualifies you for the exemption.

 

However, find another moving company that's easier to work with! When you return to France, check with people in the local Brazilian community to find out what moving companies they use for sending goods and furniture back to Brazil. They'll probably be cheaper, too, as well as easier to work with.

 

Many of us Americans have used a company called Confiança, which is a big Brazilian moving company. They'll take care of all the Customs stuff, and they don't ask about a visa, at least not in the U.S.!!! They claim to ship worldwide, so they may ship from France, or have a representative there. Their website is http://www.confiancamoving.com

[maurice_ed]

A student visa seems an interesting option but, can one reasonnably apply for a student visa at my age: i.e. 57 years old?

[Guest Gringo]

You're never too old to learn a new trick or two...:+

[maurice_ed]

True, and I am learning portuguese already now, but bureaucrats can have a different apreciation.

[trilingual]

I don't think it would be a problem. There are many reasons why a mature student would want to learn Portuguese, and I know of at least one guy here in Rio who I assume is in his 40s who is here on a student visa and enrolled in the PUC program. Also, Brazil has fairly strong laws against age discrimination, and they would apply to discrimination in the application for a student visa, but I don't think you'll have many problems. If you're interested in such a visa, consult with the university in which you plant to study and with the Brazilian embassy/consulate in your country for procedures. I believe you have to have a letter of acceptance into the program at a recognized university to apply. I'm not sure what all of the other requirements are, but they should be routine and it shouldn't be difficult to get the visa.

 

If you do get a student visa, you will actually have to go to classes! Renovation of the visa requires certificates of attendance, as I understand it. Again, the university in which you enroll and the Brazilian embassy/consulate should be able to give you more information.

[maurice_ed]

Excellent! I shall be in Rio some time in June. I shall go to this course and see if I can register. For sure I shall be able to know if I can get a visa for that.

 

I promise to be a serious student.

[maurice_ed]

I tried to subcribe to the portuguese for foreinghers course at the Catholic university in Rio. Eventually I was informed through a friend who lives in Brazil who made a phone call that there is no course at the moment, the normal course lasts 3 months and that no visa is necessary for this course.

 

This is totally inconsistent with the information given on the internet site.

 

http://www.puc-rio.br/ensinopesq/ccci/forms-hp.html#intens

 

Then no visa....

[trilingual]

That does seem odd, especially because there is at least one American guy I know who's enrolled in that course (but unfortunately I don't know how to get in touch with him and I'm not sure he checks M4M).

 

My suggestion would be for you to make an appointment with the cultural attaché's office of the Brazilian Embassy in Paris. Tell the attaché there's information on the PUC website about the full Portuguese-language program for foreigners which you're interested in taking, but you've been having difficulty getting more information or a response from PUC and ask if there's any way they can help you make contact with the proper people at PUC and get enrolled in the program. You have to think like a Brazilian to get anything accomplished here, and getting the embassy to help you is a kind of "jeitinho" that can open doors that otherwise might be difficult to open!

[maurice_ed]

I talked to a nice lady at the cultural service at the Embassy of Brazil in Paris this morning. The cultural service don't know PUC and does not seem to bother too much about them. On the other hands I should get a brochure by mail to-morrow about courses of brazilian portuguese in Rio de Janeiro, including a course in Leblon. I could talk to another person who knows very well this course. Apparently there are hundred of courses.

 

The cultural service suggested that, because I am not a student, I sould get enrolled in a course for seniors.

 

I wonder now what to do with the 650 us$ check which I ordered from my bank. Perhaps i could use it when I am in Rio in june.

[trilingual]

Well, you may have to be persistent. It's difficult to believe the cultural attaché's office wouldn't know about PUC because it's one of the most prestigious private universities in Brazil. As I understand it, to get a Brazilian student visa you need to be enrolled in a full-time language program at a real university, not just at a private language school. But maybe the embassy can clarify that. Otherwise, I'd suggest coming to Rio and going to PUC personally to track down the information and the university department that deals with international students. They're located in Gávea, and their address is on their website. Good luck!

 

BTW, Jake (who posts on this site) knows the American guy who's enrolled in the PUC course. He may have his e-mail and phone number. Try e-mailing Jake through this site and see if he can put the two of you in touch with each other.

[maurice_ed]

OK, I'll send the application file to-morrow (without the 650 US$ check since this looks very much like a crazy adventure) and when I am in Rio beginning of june, I'll go to PUC and clarify the situation.

 

This morning, I had the feeling over the phone that the people at the cultural service were not willing to talk about PUC, maybe they know but they would not mention it.

[trilingual]

maurice-ed, please check your e-mail. I sent you some information about getting in touch with the American who's signed up for the PUC language course.