What's with customs?

[kf6]

I've done a fair amount of international travel, think I understand the law - and for that matter wouldn't ever do anything illegal. Lately when returning from Brasil via Houston I have apparently been caught up in repeated secondary searches - you know when they pull you off to the side and they ask you a few questions, and then do some type of luggage search.

 

This last visit I was a bit amazed at the questions. I answered truthfully, but couldn't for the life of me figure out the relationship of the questions to customs laws. It went a little like this:

 

What do you do for a living

Where do you live

Where did you go

Why did you go

How long were you there

Where did you stay

Did you buy anything

How much cash are you carrying

 

--Then it got a little weird--

I see you like to go to Brasil. Why do you go so often?

Do you have friends there? Do you have a girlfriend? Are you married?

 

I see you've been to Amsterdam? I see you have been to Bangkok? (My answer to that was, yeah...I've also been to Paris, Barcelona, Berlin, Munich, Prague...I like to travel, I get around)...

 

Then looking thru my backpack...

Why did you not check luggage?

Why did you not purchase anything?

 

<Then taking out my camera>

Did you take any pictures?

 

--My answer was No, he then repeated the question? I said no. He asked why not? I said I just didn't feel like it. I always take my camera with me, just in case I want to take photos, but this time, I just didn't. He then asked me to turn on my camera. When he saw I had no pictures he replied...oh, I was looking forward to checking out your pictures...

 

Then picking up a bottle of lube from my backpack...what is this?

My answer "lube". What is it used for? My answer: It is a sexual lubricant. I thought you said you didn't have a girlfriend. My answer: I don't.

 

You get the idea...he wasn't particularly rude. I just thought the types of questions were a bit bizzare. What does:

My sex life

My personal relationships

The number of times I visit a particular country

have to do with US Customs Law enforcement? Am I just being overly sensitive?

[Guest msclonly]

IAH customs

 

}(

Always expect a hassle!

You get checked out at Immigration Control, then Customs, break security, go through a complete Security check to go to the Connecting flight gate. A real pain and some unusual questions.

 

Your agent seemed to know where he wanted to go with your answers, whick was not pertinent. Must have been a curious boy or homophobe looking for trouble to gossip about with the other agents over coffee. Somehow, it seems like an invasion of privacy above noraml questioning.

 

}(

[trilingual]

RE: IAH customs

 

I moved this topic from the FAQ because I think it will get more exposure on the board.

 

The line of questions you were asked clearly point at trying to discover evidence of your being a pedophiliac sex tourist. Amsterdam, Bangkok and South America are popular destinations for such travellers. If you have been stopped and asked those questions in a secondary inspection on several occasions, it's possible you've landed on a "watch" list. This can happen (thanks to draconian new laws to stamp out sex with children) if you've ever downloaded kiddie porn, or been in contact (even unsuspectingly) with a travel agency that caters to pedophiliacs, among other reasons.

 

Some of the questions also point towards suspicions of drug smuggling. Again, all three of those destinations are important drug-dealing centers. So you may have been stopped for both reasons. But the questions about the camera and your pictures point towards child-sex suspicions. Of course, they could suspect BOTH.

 

The next time you enter the U.S., you will need to be clean as a whistle. However, you may not be able to avoid such questioning even if you try entering through a different airport, because the systems are computerized.

 

If you are stopped again for the same questions (and you really ARE innocent) ask to speak to the port director (or the top person in charge if it's not during normal business hours and the port director isn't there). Tell the person you've been stopped repeatedly and asked the same disturbing questions, so it seems that you've been erroneously placed on a "watch" list and want to know the procedures for being removed from the list. If you're innocent, it's still possible that someone with the same or similar name is on such a list, and you need to clear up whether the person they're interested in has a different birthdate, birthplace, or different passport or social security numbers than yours. (All of those are items that are probably in the "watch list" data base.) You also may need to see if you've been the victim of identity theft. Someone may have used your credit card or other personal information to order child porn or do business with someone else who is also under suspicion.

 

Being stopped when you enter the country (even if you're a U.S. citizen) isn't the same thing from a legal standpoint as being stopped by a cop on the street once you're in the U.S. By law, Customs inspectors have the right to search for contraband. They also enforce other laws, like those relating to national security and stamping out child-sex travel. However, there are limits to everything, and asking to see the pictures in your digital camera (or on your computer) may go too far. That's a question a legal expert will have to answer, though!

[Big Daddy]

RE: IAH customs

 

When I returned to the US in December, after a month in Brasil, I was also sent to secondary screening. When asked why I traveled to Brasil, I simply stated that I had friends in Brasil and I loved the country. He then asked me what type of food products I was bringing back with me. It was clear that they did not believe my declaration that I had no food products with me. He opened my suitcase and confirmed that I had no Brasilian "meat" packed. He thanked me and sent me on my way. Do you think I am on some sort of "fat" watch list, of people prone to smuggle gourmet food into the country?

[trilingual]

RE: IAH customs

 

It's common to be "secondaried" for an Agricultural inspection. It happens to me a lot, but it must be at random, because there's nothing in my profile to suggest I've been out in the country wallowing with cattle infected with foot-and-mouth disease! This is a guy who gets extremely nervous if he's away from asphalt for more than 48 hours! And I've never been caught previously smuggling contraband salamis into the U.S. However, the Agriculture inspection is way less scary than what our first poster reported.

[+ Hoover42]

That's very interesting...it is very similar to the set of questions that I was asked in November when I visited Montreal for the third time in four months.

 

After going through Canadian customs, I was pulled aside and sent to Immigration where I was put through a similar set of questions:

 

What do you do for a living?

Where do you live?

Where are you staying?

How long will you visiting?

How much cash are you carrying?

 

I was extremely put off by the interrogation, and I have already thought twice and cancelled my planned February trip to Montreal.

 

I guess they don't like frequent visitors.

 

...Hoover

[TotallyOz]

I had a very similar experience when I left Thailand on my last trip. They went through every bag I had, turned on my computer and even looked at several disks. They asked permission each time and I always said sure go ahead. They looked at the pics on my computer and asked "who is this?" over and over. I got very pissed toward the end and was very short with them.

 

Their questions were very inappropriate and I guess I should have complained. But, it just took me by such a suprise. Any lawyers on here have any advice on what to do if that happens again?

[Luv2play]

Hoover, If those were all the questions they asked, I don't see what you were bothered about. They are perfectly normal questions for a customs or immigration officer to ask. Questions about your employment, place of residence, money being carried, have always been suitable subjects that travellers must answer when entering a foreign country. You should not have taken offense.

 

Now questions about girlfriends, lube, etc are definitely more prying and, as Tri suggested, may be linked to a suspicion about child-sex. Even then, given the problems concerning this issue, if you are a frequent traveller to destinations such as Bangkok, then these types of questions are more likely to be posed. IMO, if you have nothing to hide, you should not be concerned.

[trilingual]

Oz, it's not clear from your posting whether it was Thai or U.S. Customs that went through your stuff and asked you those questions.

 

In general, though, there are few limits on the discretion of Customs and Immigration employees to stop and harass travellers or prevent them from entering a country. They also have powers of arrest. After all, the whole purpose of their jobs is to stop contraband and undesirable people from entering a country.

 

In the U.S. things have gotten a lot worse since 9/11 and the wave of xenophobia that's swept the country afterwards. In theory U.S. Customs and Immigration (now part of the scary Department of Homeland Security) cannot prevent a U.S. citizen from entering the U.S., but just ask the naturalized citizens of Arab origin who've been stopped and flown off to places like Syria or Egypt for torture because they're suspected of terrorist ties (it seems all that takes is to have worked in the same corner grocery store as the cousin of the brother-in-law of someone a neighbor's sister in Detroit heard had gone to Afghanistan for al-Qaeda training).

 

Added to the terrorist hysteria is the child sex abuse hysteria, which is becoming a powerful international campaign. Put it all together, and passing through Customs and Immigration, never a delightful experience, has become a really unpleasant third-degree. Welcome to the 21st Century. . .

 

(BTW, please folks, don't start a thread on how I'm condoning terrorism or child sex abuse. I'm not!!! They're real problems, but many of the measures taken to combat them are overbroad, ineffective, and imbued with xenophobia and zealotry, mainly designed to provide the public with the llusion that their government is doing something about the problems. I do object to that phony baloney stuff.)

[+ Hoover42]

I wouldn't have minded the questions if they had been asked once, by the Custom's guy.

 

However, my answers were apparently not believable and so I was required to go to Immigrations and answer the same set of questions again while everyone else was free to go on their way.

 

...Hoover

[buckguy]

I've made numerous trips back & forth between Thailand and the US over for many years. Whether or not you get stopped by customs or immigration in the US is partly a function of where you land/clear customs. I used to be regularly stopped at LAX and my baggage was regularly searched at SFO (so was the baggage of little old ladies). Through Chicago, I've never been stopped by anyone. Minneapolis and Detroit seem to yield similar experiences from what I've heard.

 

My guess is that men traveling alone who don't look like they're on business (I don't dress up for a long flight and I can pack enough clothing for a 3-4 week work trip in a carryon) fit some kind of profile and that's why you get stopped. Put on sprts jacket and carry a computer bag, maybe that will make you look less like a tourist.

 

BTW, The pedophile stuff goes beyond "hysteria". The US and a number of European countries have trade treaties with Thailand that provide incentives for the Thai to go after pedophiles and make it easy for them to extradite these folks to the treaty countries. Because of this, Thailand has not been the major center for the child sex trade it once was, however, Cambodia has taken its place and Thailand is a major transfer point for people traveling to/from Thailand. I have been stopped on the US end of flights that transited via Hong Kong (another easy way to Cambodia), as well as the more typical Tokyo flights. Having lived in SE Asia and done humanitarian related work--I can tell you that the pedophile trade is no "hysteria". It's real.

 

Because the nature of my work, my interactions with customs and immigration people have tended to be brief ("Want to see my IDs") although that didn't prevent the luggage searches at SFO, which seemed to apply to everyone.

 

Thai customs has never given me a second look on the way in and other than stamping passports, I've never seen the Thai do anything with travelers going out.

[TotallyOz]

It was US customs and coming back into USA from Thailand. When I got back from my recent trip from Brazil I was not stopped. However, they did seach my bag throughly after rechecking in Houston. They also placed all the gay magazines on top of the clothes so I would see that they went through them. I thought that was a bit more with weird.

[BrazilFan]

Hello Oz....I assume you flew Continental....I would send them a brief description of your experience. All airlines are in contact with the TSA....

I had a very similar experience at JFK and was absolutely disgusted by the treatment. Since the incident I only fly into Newark.

Wen will you be back to Rio...? I truely enjoy your postings and feel honered to have met you in Rio.

[trilingual]

>BTW, The pedophile stuff goes beyond "hysteria".

>Having lived in SE Asia and done humanitarian

>related work--I can tell you that the pedophile trade is no

>"hysteria". It's real.

 

I don't mean to suggest that child sex isn't a problem in many countries. It is. My comment about "hysteria" goes to the attitude in the U.S. and some other developed countries that ANY minor, even a big, bruising 17-year old football player, is a "child" when it comes to sex with anyone older.

 

There's no justification in my mind for adults having sex with pre-pubescent children, or with young adolescents who are just entering their sexual maturity. I do find it hypocritical for countries to ban consensual sex between "adults" and older adolescents who, in many places, are of legal age to vote (16 in Brazil), marry, work full-time in any industry (i.e., they are no longer covered by a country's child labor laws), serve in the military, etc. It's also hypocritical of "developed" nations to apply their own sexual mores and conceps of "childhood" to other countries, where people normally assume the burdens of adulthood at an earlier age than in the pampered rich nations. If someone is considered an "adult" for all other purposes, s/he should be considered an adult for the purpose of making her/his own sexual choices.

 

To some extent, this discussion is academic, as in my case I am not at all attracted by adolescents or "twinks." But I consider confusing the issues of child sex and sex with young adults to be hypocritical and hysterical. In particular, I believe the use of the word "child" to describe underage sex partners who are older adolescents and physically adult (as well as "adult" in a sociocultural sense in many countries) to be a deliberately dishonest and reprehensible tactic to stir up hysteria.

[+ newatthis]

>... Through Chicago, I've never

>been stopped by anyone. ..

 

I've had uniformly positive experiences with customs in Chicago over the years. Always pleasant, polite, very laid back and easy going about things, including the USDA inspection when I've brought back foodstuffs. Once, when I was returning from an extended trip, a customs officer went out of her way to recalculate several different ways until she came up with a method that resulted in no customs duty on my imports.

 

I hate to stereotype, but could it just be a midwest thing?

[+ newatthis]

>... Through Chicago, I've never

>been stopped by anyone. ..

 

I've had uniformly positive experiences with customs in Chicago over the years. Always pleasant, polite, very laid back and easy going about things, including the USDA inspection when I've brought back foodstuffs. Once, when I was returning from an extended trip, a customs officer went out of her way to recalculate several different ways until she came up with a method that resulted in no customs duty on my imports.

 

I hate to stereotype, but could it just be a midwest thing?

[buckguy]

The flyers through O'Hare are much more likely to be business travelers. For whatever reason, the tourist trade seems more likely to go through SFO or LAX. I suspect that distinction is what is most important, although as a native Midwesterner and ex-Chicagoan, I'd have to say that you'll find more people who do their job right and treat people well in the Midwest than elsewhere. I refer to Atlanta (my current home) as "the city that doesn't work" (and the same can be said for its 'burbs).

[grweyers]

I work for an Airline here in Vegas and let me tell you, we get alot of people shouting at us as agents about the TSA. The airlines do have a TSA letter that can be given out.(Ask for at the ticket counter - USA only) I am not allowed to scan it, but I can get the Address on the letter, if you want. The TSA is contracted out at some airports, like SFO, others aswell. (However those that are contracted out have a TSA rep. present at the airport). Alot of issue's with our TSA, are health, long hours, short man power, but this is not an excuse for the bad way that some are treated. The more complaints the TSA receive's from an airport the better...It will also help to write to the airline you are tavelling on, believe me the Airlines are trying hard not only to get there agents to be more friendly but everyone that has public contact with the passengers...... Besides low local price's customer service is the very next important thing....for all airlines.....

[trilingual]

However, you need to understand, folks, that TSA and Customs & Immigration are separate agencies (although both part of the scary Department of Homeland Security). They have different roles.

 

TSA ensures the physical safety of airports, planes and air travelers. The security officers who check you and your bags when you catch a flight are TSA officers, whether they work directly for the government or under contract. If you're on a TSA list (like a "no-fly" list, or one that subjects you to repeated extensive searches at airport security when you try to catch a flight) you need to raise that with the TSA. I think the TSA letter grweyers refers to contains information and instructions for challenging one's name being placed on a TSA list.

 

Customs and Immigration are responsible for collecting revenue, inspecting imported merchandise, and keeping contraband and undesirable persons out of the U.S. If you have problems entering the U.S. (like having been placed on a Customs/Immigration "watch list") you'll need to raise the issue with the Customs port director (or whoever is the highest level person in charge at the time you enter the U.S.)

 

Remember, you're dealing with brush-cut, law enforcement types who aren't accustomed to being challenged when you deal with either agency. Keep your cool, be respectful, and don't lose your temper. Otherwise you may end up on their "Shit List for Eternity!"

[joel304]

As an attorney, let me speak to the issue of legality. The agents, both Customs and TSA, are within their right to ask pointed questions with regard to your visit to a sex travel destination. Thailand, rightly or not, is on this list. Since the tsunami there has been a major focus on the affected areas and their increased availability (wrongly or not)of child prostitution.

 

I would not worry that you are on a "hit list" for pedophiles (because, if this was the case, you would be searched and/or qestioned upon your departure) but, you might fit the profile(and probably do) of a pedophile. This, however, does not condone the behaviors described above (without any evidence) concerning the agents, and should be dealt with through their superiors. Remember, the TSA Agents are glorified "mall cops," and the Customs Agents are reacting to Bush propoganda. Good luck.

 

P.S. If you are on a "list" they will not tell you. The FBI knock on your door with a warrant will alert you to this :-)

[joel304]

OMG ... I just realized that I was commenting on Thailand, when the discussion was about Brazil. Be assured that my face is very red.

 

This logic can be applied to Brazil (minus the tsunami) as well. I had Thailand on the brain, because the same scenarios are happening returning from there. I was reading a post on another website, just prior to writing this irrelevant post.

 

I need to stop drinking so much :+

[trilingual]

Thanks for the input. It's valid whether for Thailand OR Brazil. I know Customs inspectors have very broad authority to search for contraband, but I question whether they have the right to look at the pictures in your digital camera without a warrant. That seems to cross a line. Do you know the answer to that, joel304? I'm sure many of us would like to know, although I don't know that I'd have the courage to tell a Customs official he can't look at my pictures. . .

[joel304]

They do have the right to look at photos if they suspect wrongdoing. Airline travel, along with motor vehicle travel, offers less protection afforded under the 14th and 4th Amendments. Allowing the evidence at court to prosecute would be an area that I would explore at $300 per hour

 

I suspect that speaking with a supervisor would thwart further prodding into your personals, unless that there was cause established.

[trilingual]

I'm not sure that airline, or motor travel, is the issue here. A Customs inspection is not the same as a traffic stop, and Customs inspectors aren't police officers. Their powers are different, and more limited than a police officer's. They're unquestionably authorized to open baggage, inspect cargo and search people suspected of importing contraband or prohibited items. But photos in someone's digital camera are a kind of intellectual property over which Customs ordinarily would have no jurisdiction at all. (There's no duty on ideas.) So the question is whether a Customs officer searching your pictures isn't exceeding his jurisdiction.

 

In spite of recent Supreme Court decisions, a police officer who stops a car still doesn't have unlimited rights to search the vehicle. To search the materials stored on someone's digital camera or laptop I think there'd have to be probable cause, at a minimum, and a warrant would have to be obtained. If that's the standard that applies to police officers, who have wide powers, I think it would probably apply to Customs inspectors, who have narrower authority. However, I don't know if there's been any actual case law on this issue. If someone is willing to waive their $300/hr and do a little research on the question, inquiring minds would like to know!

[joel304]

Border Searches.--''That searches made at the border, pursuant to the longstanding right of the sovereign to protect itself by stopping and examining persons and property crossing into this country, are reasonable simply by virtue of the fact that they occur at the border, should, by now, require no extended demonstration.''87 Authorized by the First Congress,88 the customs search in these circumstances requires no warrant, no probable cause, not even the showing of some degree of suspicion that accompanies even investigatory stops.89 Moreover, while prolonged detention of travelers beyond the routine customs search and inspection must be justified by the Terry standard of reasonable suspicion having a particularized and objective basis,90 Terry protections as to the length and intrusiveness of the search do not apply.91