Jack Back in RIO

[jackhammer91406]

TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

I go back and forth about whether to write anything further on the subject of what happened to me now just over a week ago. Part of me is still self flagellating over the mistakes that I made and part of me just wants to forget it so that I can try to salvage some of the remaining time to untangle the knot of everyday life that brought me on a vacation in the first place.

 

As I read the other thread regarding another Cinderella story it seems clear that my original post did not do what I hoped it would.

 

I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO ME.

 

There are within these pages, very concise and helpful guidelines as to how to enjoy all that RIO has to offer without suffering any problems. I might also point out that last night during a wonderful evening with Gulliver, SF traveler and Carlo, among others, I was introduced to a local who had been taken to the Cinderella dance twice. TWICE. So it is not simply a situation that involves tourists. IT can happen to anyone who thinks with his other brain, that being the one between your legs.

 

The reason that so many lovers of Brazil spend even a minute of their time here giving out valuable information to help others avoid a bad experience is because these events are avoidable. As Tomcal rightly points out, I MADE THE MISTAKE. If there is blame, it is mine and mine alone. For anyone to read what happened to me and let that dissuade them from coming to RIO or Brazil….well, it would make me feel worse than what has already happened. So many have come to this country, where the people don’t walk down the street, THEY DANCE. They move with an inner rhythm that is like watching ballet.

The sounds, the color, the aroma, the pulse of this country is offered to all with a generosity that transcends anything I have experienced. It would make me grieve that someone who loves travel and new experiences, would take the incident that occurred to me and use it to represent all travel here. The percentages are overwhelmingly in your favor for enjoying a visit, if you take the guidelines and cautions listed here seriously.

 

I know that my friend Tomcal and others are totally frustrated with me for having done what they had so generously warned me against and I apologize for causing them any grief on my behalf. Like them, I love Brazil, but they have all worked tirelessly to make sure that any visitors from this site would have a safe and totally great time. It has to make them crazy when someone like me comes along and screws things up, resulting in undoing what they have tried so hard to do.

 

DO NOT LET MY LACK OF COMMON SENSE KEEP YOU FROM COMING TO BRAZIL!!!

 

There, Now, I hope my work is done. I am off to untangle the Gordian Knot.

[Spida]

RE: FANTASY VS REALITY

 

Jackhammer,

 

I just got your email, and read the post. I am glad you are staying and trying to have the fun you had originally planned.

 

I have never been to RIO but I have been out of the country many times and have been to some places that I need to watch my back very closely. I grew up in the middle of the city, in a not so nice area, and always thought that things like that would never happen to me.

 

I have never had anything like that happen to me in a foriegn country, but rather in NYC! I was ripped off in the City that I love and that I know fairly well, only lost 300 bucks! So it can happen anywhere and to anyone, so don't fret, even though I am sure you will miss them "things" can be replaced! I am glad you were not hurt! And watching your back needs to be done Everywhere!

 

Spida

[trilingual]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

And I'm absolutely POSITIVE that a few long, leisurely, and steamy afternoons at your favorite spa, with one or more of those spectacular men, will help you untangle very nicely!

 

Don't beat yourself up to much over this. As you pointed out, it even happens to careless locals! The lesson learned, it's time to move on and enjoy the rest of your stay!

[+ Lucky]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

"I was introduced to a local who had been taken to the Cinderella dance twice. TWICE. So it is not simply a situation that involves tourists."

 

Okay, in this entire message board, about how many countries are we having such a discussion? I think it is fair to infer that Brazil has a higher risk than many other places, and no matter how much you love the place, it is still a greater risk than many other places you could choose. That a victim of a crime would feel it necessary to post how he takes entire responsibiltiy for the action says a lot about the pressure to praise Rio that exists here.

[trilingual]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

As far as I know, it's only Brazil, because Brazil is the only seriously third-world destination that has caught the fancy of readers of this board. However, there are similar chasms in the distribution of wealth in most of the other countries of Latin America. The newspapers frequently have stories about visitors to Mexico, for example, who run into trouble. Outside of Latin America, South Africa has been a popular destination for gay travelers. The crime and security situation in South Africa even scares Brazilians! :-)

 

Of course, Americans don't live in a land of peace and security. Just turn on the nightly local news in any major American metropolitan area to hear an endless litany of murders, drive-by shootings, random massacres at schools or workplaces, rapes, drug busts, you name it. So who are we kidding here? Americans (in particular) should feel right at home in Brazil!

 

In fact, crime against tourists in places like Brazil is mostly economic, and victims rarely get hurt if they don't act foolishly. There is a great deal of violent crime in Brazil (a country awash in guns, like the U.S.) but the vast bulk of it is related to drug traffic turf battles that rarely affect visitors or the middle/upper-class neighborhoods of Rio's Zona Sul.

 

But yes, visiting Brazil (or any major American city) is NOT risk-free. Everyone needs to assess the level of risk he can tolerate before visiting such places. But the fact that so many of us have visited Brazil repeatedly (some of us for decades) with no problems at all suggests that the risks are somewhat overstated.

[+ Lucky]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

"victims rarely get hurt if they don't act foolishly"

 

There you go again! I just don't accept this insistence that the victim is responsible for being a victim. To me, this is the real Cinderella view. I pray that you never learn differently.

 

It simply does not diminish the great experiences you have had in Brazil to let someone else have his experience without feeling the need to sing with the chorus here.

[trilingual]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

I really dislike it when someone wilfully distorts what I've said, or twists its meaning into something that I never said.

 

The perpetrator of a crime is obviously responsible for the crime. But the behavior of the victim can be a major factor in the entire interaction and can profoundly affect its outcome. Deliberately putting yourself into harm's way is one example. That's what happens when people don't follow the common sense advice in these postings. If you KNOW that crime exists, and that certain people or situations can be dangerous, then you bear SOME responsibility if you ignore the warnings, fail to protect yourself, and expose yourself to those dangerous people or situations.

 

Resisting an armed robbery is another example. Common sense advice is to do what the robber wants, avoid sudden moves, or doing anything else that might threaten or scare the criminal into hurting or killing you. If you behave foolishly in this kind of situation and something bad happens to you, then you bear SOME responsibility for the outcome.

 

But, hey, chacun à son goût! Pick up those mystery guys nobody knows anything about! Walk home alone late at night, reeling drunk, along dark side streets in a third-world city! Argue, or better yet, try to fight the jumpy, desperate guy holding a gun or knife on you! After all, you're not responsible for anything that could happen to you! Just don't expect any sympathy from me when the inevitable happens. And don't plan on my giving the eulogy at your funeral. x(

[+ Lucky]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

"I really dislike it when someone wilfully distorts what I've said, or twists its meaning into something that I never said."

 

Directly quoting you is hardly twisting yuor words. What you don't like is twisting in the wind when your argumets are exposed. As a result, you then twist what others say, as you did by stretchng my argument to make it include the concept that the vicitm is never responsible for any of his behavior.

[CT Dick]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

>"victims rarely get hurt if they don't act foolishly"

>

>There you go again! I just don't accept this insistence that

>the victim is responsible for being a victim.

 

 

Lucky, Tri didn't say anything about the victim being responsible for the incident. As he said in his reply, a victim's actions have something to do with the outcome.

 

Come on, fighting back in an armed robbery is foolhearty.

 

Dick

[+ Lucky]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

Tri's position is stated on another thread:

"Why take the risk of traveling thousands of miles and having your trip ruined by your own carelessness?

With a modicum of caution and common sense, you'll have a wonderful time in Brazil without any problems!"

Each time there is a problem in Rio, tri rises to the defense of the city by citing his own experience over a number of years, which I definitely give respect to. But there is an implication in the postings about crime, both by tri and others, that nothing will happen to you if you follow certain guidelines for behavior. By their subjective experience, Rio is a safe place to visit. Yet I maintain that by objective standards, it is not as safe as their experience dictates. Travellers should consider that in making their choice to spin the wheels and bet on Rio as their vacation destination. I have been to Rio three times without incident but I know that luck has a lot to do with it as well as my observing common sense. To suggest that crime is not random, or that you must have done something wrong if you are victimized, is not an approach I follow.

 

There is the further issue of how dissent on this subject is handled here. The Brazil Nuts do not rest until you agree that Brazil is as safe as they think it is. I don't think jackhammer is to blame for what happened to him and I don't think he needs to do a mea culpa before the Hooville gallows hangs him!

 

That said, I love the Brazil Nuts and value their contributions.

[kjun]

From what I have read here and in other places two points about Brazil are certain:

 

1) It is a place with handsome men who have big dicks

2) It is a poor and crime ridden place.

 

Going there is, in a large part, being willing to take the risk!

 

the Cajun

[catnip]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

"I don't think jackhammer is to blame for what happened to him and I don't think he needs to do a mea culpa before the Hooville gallows hangs him!"

 

That's very true! The bad apples will always be looking for more ways to do their evil and get away with it.

 

A long time ago, shortly after I moved to NYC, I was mugged on my way home. It was totally random. I was returning from a friend's house where I was listening to the first CD player I had ever seen(!), and I got ambushed by three kids right by the front door to my apartment building. It was scary (knife to my throat...), but I wasn't injured and was not more than $50 poorer after the mugging. But the worst thing was the sense when I woke up the next morning that I was somehow brought down off of some pedestal and was in the same shit-pile as my assailants. It took a long time go get over that feeling. There was a mixture of a little guiltiness, but more an awareness of lost innocence or security. It's a natural impulse when recovering to ask onesself over and over again what we could have done differently.

 

The "common sense" encouraged here is absolutely helpful and will usually prevent problems, but there is no 100 % fool-proof insurance wherever you are.

[trilingual]

RE: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY

 

Nobody here, including me, has suggested that there isn't such a thing as random crime, in Rio or anywhere else. It can affect anyone. But crime against tourists (including M4Mers in Rio) isn't "random." It's planned and targeted. Thieves and con-artists KNOW that first-world tourists are wealthy, have money, carry credit cards, and usually have valuables with them. They also know where to find those tourists. In Rio they know that they stay almost exclusively in Copacabana, Ipanema or Leblon, and they tend to hang out at particular places (Corujinha, in our case; bars like Help in the case of our hetero friends). So the marks are easy pickings. Knowing that, it's hardly surprising that there are disreputable people circulating around Corujinha and Help. At Corujinha, some of them are guys who've been blackballed by the saunas and escort agencies because they've caused problems with clients previously. Some of them are heavily into drugs. Whatever the reason, they're looking for victims.

 

The point here is we're not talking about random, unforeseeable crime. Rather, it's something that's destined to happen if people ignore the advice given by experienced Rio hands (both native and foreign). We KNOW there are bad characters out there, waiting for easy prey, and we're trying to help visitors avoid them. Obviously, even someone who follows our oft-repated advice can still end up in a bad situation. But it's been rare, in my experience. Usually bad things happen to people who've decided they know best and do exactly what we've warned them not to do, or who get careless and drop their guard, forgetting that Rio is not just a resort, it's a third-world mega-city with enormous poverty, drug problems and desperation.

 

We old Rio hands aren't being Pollyannas when we sing the praises of Rio. We love it madly and know that visitors can have a life-changing experience here, but we also understand Rio's problems and pitfalls, and have been trying to communicate those to other visitors (especially newbies) so they can avoid getting into trouble in a strange city and country. So, to the extent that someone ignores our advice and gets into exactly the kind of trouble we've warned about, they DO bear some responsibility for what happened to them. If they had done what we've advised, it's most likely they could have avoided the unpleasantness. Of course, no amount of caution can save someone from inadvertently getting caught in a shoot-out between rival drug gangs, or a bank robbery, or a sudden riot. But many of the bad things that happen to tourists are predictable and avoidable. So if people who've been warned don't act in ways that will help them avoid these things, I rapidly lose sympathy for them.

 

Jackhammer doesn't need to offer a mea culpa to anyone. He did it because that's the kind of guy he is. To be honest, I think he blames himself too much. He's not solely responsible for what happened to him. The guy who drugged and robbed him is primarily responsible. But Jackhammer recognizes that he made it easy for the thief and that he's not entirely blameless in the matter. However, there's no point in beating yourself up too much if this happen to you. You just need to give yourself some time to recover from the shock and anger and depression, reflect on whether anything you did encouraged the incident, learn from the experience, and move on.

[trilingual]

Kjun's right. We've repeatedly stated the risks. Brazil and many other developing countries aren't destinations for nervous nellies. People who want a virtually risk-free holiday (at least from the risk of crime) should try Switzerland or Bermuda or New Zealand. It may be a little boring, but it'll be safe!

 

On the other hand, if you can handle some risk, and are willing to take reasonable measures to avoid predictable problems, come on down to Brazil! You'll find the the benefits far outweigh the risks!