Fingerprinting

[Guest YFSC]

According to an item on the news today, the US has started fingerprinting and photographing arrivals from the "favored" 27 visa-waiver countries too. That means citizens of all countries now. Those people that were bent out of shape at the inequity can now relax. Everybody is being treated the same way. The change seems to be connected with another news item, namely, that the threat of bombs or other terrorist activity during the summer has increased.

[Luv2play]

Well, not quite. The news yesterday on both American (CNN) and Canadian news channels was that the USA would require fingerprinting and photos of everybody from abroad OTHER than Canadians (and some Mexicans, it appears). So once again, we Canadians are exempted (for the time being), although I wonder how long that will last. I guess we're just nicer than those nasty ole Brits, Frenchmen and Germans. Yikes, even the Aussies are not exempt, and they supported the Iraq war, unlike us. What next!x(

[Guest YFSC]

Correction noted. The brief mention that I heard on the radio didn't list any exceptions.

 

It may not last long, but then again it may.

 

I'm not a fan of the fingerprinting and photographing, but if they were going to do it, it didn't make sense to exempt all those countries. Obviously it's not a question of "nasty ole" anybody, of supporting the war or not, or of "what next?" The vast majority of visitors, from the formerly exempt countries or any others, are not problems. But it is true that the man who caused you to have to take off your shoes at the airport (the airline shoe bomber), as well as a number of other terrorism suspects, arrestees and detainees, are citizens of of the formerly exempt countries and so would not have had to be fingerprinted and photographed. What sense does it make to lock the door but leave the window next to it wide open?

 

As distasteful as the security procedures are, the real problem is the people who are now willing to do the kinds of things that we have seen in the recent past, including sacrificing themselves in the process. x(

[Guest msclonly]

Theother side of the coin

 

The other real problem are the people, who will bi$h at whatever the US does to protect it's citizens. But this is the real deal, and no longer just dress rehearsals.

 

 

}(

[trilingual]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

I did indeed bitch about the former system because it was illogical. The threats to the U.S. so far haven't come from citizens of countries like Brazil or the other Latin American nations. They came from countries whose citizens either didn't need visas, or could get them virtually automatically (like Saudi Arabians).

 

There are an awful lot of angry, disaffected people with European passports who could enter the U.S. with no meaningful screening at all. It's way past time that gap was plugged, and I'm glad it finally has been. Nothing will make the U.S. 100% safe, but screening ALL visitors will certainly move the country in that direction.

 

I don't recall anybody on this site suggesting that this is a warm, cuddly world we're living in, or that the U.S. doesn't have a right to try to protect itself from the threat of terrorism. The objections that have been posted here had to do with illogical actions that either didn't protect the U.S., or actively made the U.S. less secure.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

>The other real problem are the people, who will bi$h at

>whatever the US does to protect it's citizens.

 

Somehow, they seem to me to be not as great a problem as the earlier group. But maybe it's just my lack of full appreciation of the seriousness of their bitching and the physical dangers it creates... x(

[Luv2play]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

What I don't understand is why Canada is still exempt from these new US travel requirements. We have a huge immigrant population, from countries which harbour many of these "disaffected" citizens who bear malice towards Western values and institutions. Not that the majority of these recent immigrants fall into this category, but SOME surely do.

 

It was only a couple of years ago the this fellow Ressam was caught at the US border trying to enter the US from Canada with bomb materials to blow up the LA airport. He had lived for several years in Montreal but was originally from Algeria. Terrorist experts acknowledge that "sleeper cells" exist in Canada as elsewhere such as the US.

 

So why we are exempt in Canada is beyond me. It seems maybe economic interests are trumping security reasons. I just hope we don't live to regret that decision.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

>What I don't understand is why Canada is still exempt from

>these new US travel requirements. \

>

...

>

>So why we are exempt in Canada is beyond me. It seems

>maybe economic interests are trumping security reasons. I just

>hope we don't live to regret that decision.

 

I suspect it is primarily due to logistics at this point. Canada and Mexico are the only countries contiguous to the US permitting thousands and even tens of thousands (on busy days) to cross the border in autos, buses and trucks. Crossing over now can take up to 2 hours on a holiday weekend. With the facilities current in place, finger printing each individual would pretty much shut the border down on busy days.

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

>>What I don't understand is why Canada is still exempt from

>>these new US travel requirements.

>...

>>So why we are exempt in Canada is beyond me. It seems

>>maybe economic interests are trumping security reasons. I just

>>hope we don't live to regret that decision.

>

>I suspect it is primarily due to logistics at this point.

>Canada and Mexico are the only countries contiguous to the US

>permitting thousands and even tens of thousands (on busy days)

>to cross the border in autos, buses and trucks. Crossing over

>now can take up to 2 hours on a holiday weekend. With the

>facilities current in place, finger printing each individual

>would pretty much shut the border down on busy days.

 

It's clearly counter to the security issue, but obviously there are other considerations at work, at least in the short term, as TY points out. A further complicating point is that there are people on both borders (Canada and Mexico) who live on one side and work on the other, adding to the logistical problem. Then there is the sociological "good neighbor" problem and the feelings that would be created. Mexico was very pleased when Pres. Fox was able to negotiate a visa-waiver agreement for some Mexican citizens in certain situations, just a few weeks ago. To then turn around and impose fingerprinting/photographing requirements on them would seem unfriendly and contradictory (even though, of course, it is not, and it would be for entirely different considerations).

 

But the official announcements have always been that fingerprinting/photographing is being done at international airports and seaports, and that the procedures would be extended to border crossings "in the future." I guess that means when they can solve the logistical/technological problems. It's also true that by a new general agreement among many or most countries, passports are being switched over to a "biometrical" type that encodes definitive biometrical data as the old ones are renewed or new ones are issued. Presumably with those, when the agent swipes your passport, as they already do now although there is less information encoded, they will already have everything and will not need to fingerprint or photograph you.

 

Welcome to the world of Bigger Brother. x( :+

[Guest YFSC]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

>What I don't understand is why Canada is still exempt from

>these new US travel requirements.

>...

>It was only a couple of years ago the this fellow Ressam was

>caught at the US border trying to enter the US from Canada

>with bomb materials to blow up the LA airport.

>...

>So why we are exempt in Canada is beyond me.

 

Right on! Let's stick it to the Canucks!

[Mavica]

You're jumping the gun

 

"According to an item on the news today, the US has started fingerprinting and photographing arrivals from the "favored" 27 visa-waiver countries too."

 

I think you've misread the news item. The revised US-VISIT program doesn't go into effect until after the Summer 2004 travel season. Nothing has changed at the moment. As for increased security, I'm for it. Soverign nations choose measures that best fit their needs. Let's just hope some of the affected nations don't do stomething stupid, like Brazil did in retaliation earlier.

[trilingual]

RE: You're jumping the gun

 

The non-visa countries affected by the new measure include many European nations that have already been targeted by terrorists, and are currently under new threats. So it's very possible that countries like Spain, Italy, France, Germany and the U.K. will tighten up their entry procedures to protect themselves from foreigners with grudges. Including grudge-bearers who hold U.S. passports.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Theother side of the coin

 

>But the official announcements have always been that

>fingerprinting/photographing is being done at international

>airports and seaports, and that the procedures would be

>extended to border crossings "in the future." I guess that

>means when they can solve the logistical/technological

>problems. It's also true that by a new general agreement

>among many or most countries, passports are being switched

>over to a "biometrical" type that encodes definitive

>biometrical data as the old ones are renewed or new ones are

>issued. Presumably with those, when the agent swipes your

>passport, as they already do now although there is less

>information encoded, they will already have everything and

>will not need to fingerprint or photograph you.

 

The following article contains little more than a side comment that shed light, albeit faint, on the border crossing issue. In particular see the last paragraph.

 

System Can Detect Fraudulent Passports

Thu Apr 8, 5:29 PM ET

 

Add Technology - AP to My Yahoo!

 

By DAVID TIRRELL-WYSOCKI, Associated Press Writer

 

CONCORD, N.H. - Australia, one of the United States' strongest allies, has added a new weapon to its arsenal — a toaster-sized document reader that tells in seconds whether a passport is a fraud and identifies travelers who might be included on terrorist watch lists.

 

 

 

"What we're trying to do is strengthen border security by making sure that the people who are coming into this country are who they say they are," said Tim Chapman, a manager with Australia's Customs Service.

 

 

In a multimillion-dollar contract, Australia has installed 400 iA-thenticate units from Imaging Automation Inc. of Bedford, N.H., at its international airports in hopes of authenticating the documents of every person entering.

 

 

The system ranges from $5,000 to $15,000 per unit. It uses multiple light sources to examine hundreds of security features on travel documents. Many of the features, including the composition of ink, are invisible to the naked eye.

 

 

Australia joins Canada, Hungary, Sweden, Finland, Nigeria among the countries using or testing the iA-thenticate system. The Dallas-Fort Worth and Boston airports and a company that contracts with nuclear plants use the system to check credentials of prospective employees.

 

 

Chapman said the system was deployed in Australia in mid-February and already has detected false documents. Without giving details, he said the people might not have been detected beforehand.

 

 

Imaging Automation is trying to sell its system to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which is facing delays in its plans to incorporate passport-validating fingerprint and facial biometrics at border crossings.

 

 

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On the Net:

 

 

iA-thenticate devices: http://www.imagingauto.com