Violence in Rio

[ohgwm226]

From Reuters":

 

Rio Police Back with Vengeance After Gory Weekend:

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (Reuters) - Heavily armed police occupied crime-ridden slums in Rio de Janeiro on Monday in a new crackdown on drug gangs after 16 people, including three police officers, were killed in a weekend of violence.

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Last week police made several incursions, killing three people they said were suspected drug traffickers in a slum in the Copacabana tourist district and provoking protests by slum dwellers who complained of excessive violence.

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For those of us who are now in Rio: Have you noticed anything different in copacabana? Or is what described happened in the remote background with no noticeable effect on tourists areas?

Despite the very violent reputation of Rio, I myself never saw or felt threatened with violence during my 5 trips to Rio...

 

OHGWM226

[imrthr]

As a general rule, one can rely on Reuters to fairly present the news. However, in this case, Reuter's article is misleading. When Reuters reported "suspected drug traffickers in a slum in the Copacabana tourist district", their article was inaccurate. The incident occurred near, but not in, the tourist district as discussed in another news article excerpted below.

 

"On Wednesday evening and dawn on Thursday police also clashed with alleged drug traffickers in the hillside slum of Pavao-Pavaonzinho, near the famous beach areas of Copacabana, killing three people."

 

"The incident angered dwellers and hundreds went down the hill throwing stones against buildings and setting fire to cars parked on the streets. The slum residents claimed that the those killed were innocent people and authorities said the incidents were being investigated."

 

So, we are all still safe while visiting Rio. I return to Rio next week. This will make my sixth trip. I too have not had any safety problems in Rio and Reuters article does not influence my Rio itinerary.

[Guest Tomcal_]

This is similiar to a headline recently, "6 Shooting deaths in L.A. over the weekend" There were actually 4 in Compton/south Central and two in the "valley/panorama City", neither areas where I or anyone I know frequent, we are all in L.A., and when relatives back in the midwest read this, they go "there is so much crime and gun violence in L.A". When you are talking about a major urban area, whether it's Rio, NYC, Los Angeles and any other100 areas, it's needs to be more specific to be meaningful. Where I go in L.A. or Rio I feel very safe, but there are certainly areas I would not venture in, even in the middle of the day!

[xchris]

Now that I already decided to spend a big part of my future years in Rio, I'm very receptive to people or news talking about violence.

 

Tonight I went to a Brasilian RODIZIO Restaurant in Venice, where a girl told me she would like to go to Rio but she cannot go because is frightened by the idea of all those crimes...

 

I had my time explaining her that I used to go to theatre in Centro and walk in the night to my apt in Flamengo with no problem, enjoying the people dancing samba in the street.

 

Every great city has his dark neighborhoods, and his peculiar problems, even in Milan there are places where I do not even risk to venture...

 

I cannot imagine that people will never visit Italy because of fears of italian MAFIA...

 

In my three long trips to Brasil the only risk occurred to me outside MARACANA when, wearing a Flamengo shirt I ended walking into a crowd of Vasco supporters, after they lose 2-0. But this could have occurred in Naples, too.

 

The truth is that the easy-civilized-tourism diseducated people to take care about cultures, tolerance, responsabilities and even risks involved in visiting differents countries and differents latitudes. Ought to affordable airfares, too many peoples still imagine whatever trip just as a video clip with bodies involved. They forget to use sun protection. They forget to use wallet protection. They often forget to use brain protection.

 

Many of us come to Rio loving the special taste not yet spoiled by the organized megastores. Most part of the food and of the people in the not-yet first world still have a taste we have already lost in our so-called civilized countries.

As like in Maroc, I prefer the smell of a real apple to the lack of taste of many large-market products. Nevertheless everyone of us need a certain lenght of time to adjust our methabolism...

 

I found this forum exaustive of specific informations, balanced opinions and down to earth advices, very useful to people who want to discuss a target trip and prepare to fully enjoy it.

 

Ciao

CHRIS

[trilingual]

Well, the truth is that there WAS an ugly scene in Copacabana the other night. The Pavão-Pavãozinho slum is on the hill above the tunnel that bisects r. Barata Ribeiro (after the tunnel it's called Raul Pompeia -- the street LeBoy is on). On occasion, the police piss off the residents, or the drug traffickers force the residents into protesting, and they come down the hill into the main part of Copacabana and stage a riot. That's what happened the other night. It was NOT a pretty scene if you were in the vicinity. Especially if being caught in a cross-fire isn't your idea of a fun evening. (The truth about what triggered the riot this time still isn't clear, whether the guys the police killed were traffickers or whether they were innocent bystanders.)

 

This isn't an every day occurrence in Copacabana, but it does happen. I don't want to mislead anyone into believing Rio is "safe as houses." Most of the time it's fine, if you use common sense and pay attention to what's going on around you, but sometimes bad things happen here. At the end of the day, Brazil is a country with a huge income differential, way too many poor people, a weak economy that keeps them from getting decent jobs, and a poorly-paid, corrupt police force easily bought by the drug dealers.

 

If visiting a country with serious social problems that sometimes explode makes you seriously nervous, perhaps you'd be better off vacationing in Denmark or Switzerland or Disney World. If you can accept some risk in your life, places like Brazil can be immensely rewarding. In the case of Brazil, one of the wonders is how people can live with so much injustice and inequality and not be terminally embittered and angry. Yet they aren't. By and large, Brazilians continue to be amazingly open, optimistic, hospitable, sweet and kind. In spite of all that's wrong with Brazil, there's also something immensely right about it, when its people can manage to be like that in the face of endless adversity. (Most of the sauna guys are perfect examples. In other countries, they'd be angry, hard, cynical S.O.B.'s. Here, they're mostly genuinely nice guys who are trying to use their natural gifts to better themselves in an environment with few other opportunities. Most of them consider it kind of a goof that they're doing this. A lot of them enjoy their work, at least some of the time, and enjoy their social interactions with clients, many of whom are the kind of people they'd otherwise never have an opportunity to get to know in their own neighborhoods or home towns. It's an aspect of what keeps so many of us charmed, and coming back repeatedly.)

 

But yes, there can be dangers here. The press reports tend to overplay them and make them sound worse than they really are, but they do exist, and anyone who considers visiting Brazil or other poor countries needs to decide for himself how much risk he can tolerate, and choose his vacation destinations accordingly.

[ohgwm226]

As usual, I truly appreciate the wise, and deep insight of Trilingual into Brazilian realities.

Tri, not only the info you provide is so helpful, and true, but also you posses a great ability to relay an understanding and truthful picture of the country, and people we all came to love and appreciate.

I just finished watching the movie "4 Days in September". A reminder of history of Brazil. I myself will be back to Rio in few months for my 6th trip in last 3 years. Thanks.

 

OHGWM226

[Guest msclonly]

Right on -Nice Guys

 

What you say about the humbleness or gentleness of the Brazilian guys, that were not born with any advantages is so true!

 

All you have to do is think of the trouble, that so many American guys are. It is more likely, that you are safer and will not be missing something in Rio, then right here in the good ol US!

 

I believe that is why some of us are attracted to travel in Brazil, or other less fortunate countries.

 

:+

[BillyZ]

Amen to Tri

 

Tri's concise analysis of the Brazilian situation

-- both from their point of view and the risks and

rewards from our point of view -- is precisely right

in every respect. Beautifully said.

 

Onward, Billy

[trilingual]

RE: Another Cautionary Tale

 

Last night at Corujinha I ran into a visiting European with whom I'm somewhat acquainted. He was very upset, because he's gotten involved in an ugly scenario. If I understand things correctly, several nights ago he picked up one of the guys who tends to hang out across the street from Corujinha (a strong-featured black guy with a goatee -- says his name is Mario). Our visitor's thing is taking videos of the guys he picks up, and until now hadn't run into any problems. His encounter with this particular fellow seemed to go OK, and he paid him R$100 plus a tip for an hour of his time fooling around in front of the camera. The guy in question, though, apparently hangs out with his brother, and after ruminating on it together they decided, a couple of nights later, to go back and allege that our visitor has promised to pay 100 dollars, not 100 reais. Our visitor refused, although he did give the guy a few extra reais, and then went back to the Atlântico. The guys followed him and confronted him again in the lobby. This was around 2:00 a.m. Our visitor asked the staffer at the desk to have these guys leave or to call the police, but the hotel staffer did nothing and the guys mugged him there in the lobby. (The hotel staffer was probably alone at the time and scared that these guys could be armed, so he avoided getting in the middle of this.) Our visitor wasn't physically hurt, but the two guys got the small amount of cash he was carrying and gave him a good scare. For whatever reason, he didn't make a complaint to hotel management in the morning, or decide to go to the tourist police.

 

Last night our visitor sought me out at Corujinha for advice. As it happens, the guy who ripped him off was there again, too, and he was worried about what to do. We decided to talk it over with Márcio, whom many M4Mers know (one of the queen mothers of Corujinha, who knows everything and everybody there). While we were talking, the guy walked over and started trying to defend himself verbally, alleging that he was actually owed lots more than he was paid for being filmed, etc. Márcio told us, in English, that the guy is known around Corujinha and has a bad reputation; our visitor isn't the first to be ripped-off by him. The guy is now having second thoughts about being filmed and wants the tape back but he's also obviously nervous about what happened and wants (I think) to avoid more hassles of the type that could land him in very serious trouble. We agreed that our visitor would return to Corujinha tonight with the tape and give it to him. I'll go there, too, and with Márcio we'll make it very clear that this is to be the end of the story. We'll say that we realize there may have been a misunderstanding caused by the language barrier, but that if there are ANY more problems this guy's life is going to get much more complicated very quickly. Hopefully this will be the end of things.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY: There's a reason we encourage readers not to pick up the guys who hang out across the street from Corujinha. In most cases they're unknowns, and they can be trouble. Of course, many of us have not followed this good advice, but have at least had the common sense of not taking one of these guys back to our hotels/apartments, and gone with them instead to a "motel" or sauna.

However, if you don't speak the language and don't know who the guy is, the better part of wisdom is not to go with one of those guys at all. Stick with the guys who work at the saunas, or who are known by someone you know or by one of the other regulars at Corujinha (like Márcio or José) who can vouch for them. Also, if you don't speak Portuguese, be sure to find a reliable translator who can help you make arrangements with someone you pick up, particularly if you want to do something beyond basic sex (like filming). Even when the guy you go with isn't dishonest, there's a risk of misunderstanding and hard feelings if you haven't made everything clear beforehand.

 

This kind of story is the exception, not the rule, but you need to exercise prudence and common sense when you travel, especially when you don't speak the language of the country you're visiting. And if you're smart, you'll also be prudent in drinking or ingesting other substances that can impair your judgement and decision-making ability. When you're in a foreign environment, you need all your senses to be sharp! Most importantly, pay attention to what experienced travellers or local residents tell you. You don't have to accept EVERYTHING they say (some of the locals are very fearful themselves and tend to overplay the crime message) but if you're warned about a specific place or individual, and you have no information to the contrary, it's better to listen and be safe rather than sorry. Brazil isn't anywhere as dangerous or terrible as it's often made out to be, but it's also not entirely risk-free, as this thread has shown. Keep all of this in mind as you decide on your next vacation destination!

[trilingual]

RE: And A Suggestion

 

To minimize misunderstandings about money and payments, learn how to say 50 and 100 reals in Portuguese ("cincuenta reais" and "cem reais," pron. seen-QWEN-tah heh-ICE and seyn heh-ICE). Be sure to say that to the guy before you go to a cabine with him, or take him somewhere, and be sure he's assented.

 

If you don't understand, or are in doubt that you've communicated effectively, WRITE the amount on a piece of paper (a napkin will do): R$50 or R$100 and show it to him. Again, be sure your partner has assented. Ask "OK?" or "Ta legal?" (pron. tah leh-GAHL?) and be sure he answers affirmatively.

 

That should help!