Sauna Boys....Gay!?!?

[Guest LatinoRican]

I have been to Rio twice for New Year's celebrations and have partaken in the delights of the various saunas in that wonderful city. My question is the following: Do you consider the sauna boys that bottom to be gay? A poster in another section says that "any man who is f***ed by another is gay." On one occasion, in Roger's, I was approached by this particular guy who at the time was very loud, carrying on and kidding with the other guys there. He was a bit intimidating to me at first, but as we spoke, he whispered in my ear, "Eu vou ser seu mulher." (I will be your woman.) Well, you can imagine the rest; he did live up to his word. What excited me the most is that he was the brashest of the bunch, the one you would least expect to bottom. Was he gay? I didn't think so.

 

Opinions? Comments?

[+ glutes]

Maybe you should read the other post here titled "Straight guys like Dildos"...

[HooBoy]

I do not find that sexual preferences is really an issue...at least in the larger cities of Brazil.

 

God forbid that some famous singer would show a tit on the beach in Rio, tho!

 

:+

[trilingual]

The question presupposes that everyone's sexual categorization system is the same. But it turns out that it isn't. I used to be mystified about how the Brazilian sauna guys (and others) self-identify, but I finally saw the light: I don't care WHAT they consider themselves, as long as they want to have sex with ME! :7 I've had a much more fun and relaxing time ever since! Just take the guys for what they say they are, and don't worry your pretty head about whether they're gay or not. Many of them, by the way, are married, with kids, and their wives know what they do. So what do you suppose THAT makes them? It just makes my head spin to think about it, so instead I just go for a spin on them. It's a much more productive use of my time! :9

[Guest LatinoRican]

To Glutes: I wrote the post "Straight Boys Luv Dildos"

 

Actually, I do not care what the boys sexual preference is. I follow the "don't ask, don't tell" rule. However, an impression that I have and to which I myself subscibe is that most (if not all) visitors to the saunas go there because of the masculinity that these guys exude. It appears to be that those of us who go to saunas with boys do not care to have a gay on gay relationship. As I come from a latino culture, I know that there are many latin gays who would never consider a relationship with another gay person, but instead seek out relationships with straight men. Could this be a factor in so many gays guys going to Rio seeking out sauna boys?

[Guest msclonly]

I feel that since everyone is biologically BI, the guys in Brazilian culture are MORE honest about their feelings or about plain old SEX! This is opposed to the more Western Judeo-Christian heritage of anger and guilt. Have you noticed, that this sex thing is taken much more casually in the Southern Hemisphere, where the missionaires did not do TOO much harm. Especially true in the South Pacific and SEAsia. We just aren't as enlightened or tolerant with our Puritan (religous intolerance). The initial American Colonies were set up by DIFFERENT religious belief systems and beliefs, that were thinly disquished as Christian!

 

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[trilingual]

Well, I don't think there's any scientific evidence that EVERYONE is biologically "bi" any more than there is any evidence, scientific or otherwise, that everyone is biologically ambidextrous! Some people are biologically "bi," and some are born ambidextrous, but they seem to be the exception, not the rule. For sure, I'm biologically "gay." Your complete Kinsey 6 -- no interest whatsoever in women, and never have had any. I have lots of "straight" friends who have no interest whatsoever in their own sex. (They're the ones who are usually most comfortable around gays, because they're secure enough in their own sexuality not to feel threatened. It's the wavering, unacknowledged bisexuals who are usually the source of problems and ugliness, as they try to be super-macho to convince themselves they aren't really feeling what they're feeling!)

[Guest msclonly]

Your are mixing apples and oranges, when you compare physical attributes to Psychological adaptations!

To say the Bi's are more hostile, etc is a stretch!

Surely if you spend time in 'gay' communities, you will find many more angry peole, then bi's livine in 'normal' communities. Isn't that what 'dishing' and 'attitude' is all about! And speaking Negatives all day long.

 

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[trilingual]

No, I don't think all bisexuals are hostile. The ones who've thought things through and accepted themselves (and their desires) for what they are have nothing to be hostile about. The problems come from the bisexuals who, in many cases, don't even realize that's what they are! They just know that faggots are bad, everyone is encouraged to hate them, but they're having "faggot" thoughts and feelings and they try to hide or suppress them by acting super-macho, being the biggest whore-mongers, and being the most notorious fag-bashers. Guys who are truly heterosexual mostly don't think about these things because they don't feel threatened in their sexuality and identity. They don't have those feelings, so there's nothing to be tempted by. Unresolved bisexuals, though, can be walking time-bombs.

 

That's all I was trying to say.

[Guest LatinoRican]

Help! Somewhere along the way, the original intent of this post was sidetracked with a debate on bisexuality. What I originally wanted were your opinions on if you consider sauna boys who bottom to be gay or do they do it for the money? And a second question is if the majority of gays who go to saunas with boys prefer having a relationship with a 'straight' guy rather than a gay on gay relationship in a regular sauna scene. Comments, please!

[Trixie]

I cannot attest to the sauna boys in Rio or Sao Paulo, but I think that sometimes too much is read into a sexual act, especially if it's being performed for money. In Brasil, perhaps moreso than in other latin american countries, passion is an affirmative quality. Almost anything can be excused if it's done in a pique of passion.

Therefore, if a typical young brazilian stud gets a little drunk one night, and bends over for his best friend... well, that's passion.

And if he happens upon a tourist who pays him decently for the pleasure, well, thats good business.

A sexual act is simply a physical performance, done for thrills, or sometimes cash. Now if the "straight" boys who inhabit the saunas

tend to save their most intimate and tender emotions for other men, and prefer to establish long lasting, sexual and emotional relationships with members of the same sex, then you probably could call them "gay". That is my understanding of the word, in any case.

I do apologize for sounding cranky, but I have a cold that has lingered for some weeks now.

La red-nosed Trix

[Guest Tomcal_]

Trixie, you don't sound cranky, you sound like someone who cut right through the BS and made a logical assessment! Personally I dont' care if the guys in Rio call themselves STraight, Bi or Gay, as long as they kiss great, suck dick as good as I do, and Fuck like there's no tomorrow!! LOL .

P.S. your posts are always appreciated, (and usually funny!!) thanks.

[CT Dick]

Ditto, Tom.

 

Also, as I have posted before, I think we North Americans suffer from a need to categorize sex. Gay, bi, straight labels carry lots of baggage.

 

Brazilian sauna boys and BelAmi actors don't package themselves and appear to enjoy sex because it feels good.

 

They can perform with both sexes because they aren't burdened with the internalized rules that start with "Straight men don't....."

 

Dick

[Guest LatinoRican]

Hmmm...is it just me or is there a bit of animosity in Tomcal's reply? Sorry if I have offended anyone by asking if you think sauna boys are gay or not because they give it up to other men... If you read the last two lines in my original post, you would see that I do not believe so, but that is just my opinion.

 

In addition, I also believe that most of us who go to countries like Brazil, Cuba, Dominican Republic, and others do so because we prefer to have sex with 'straight', 'straight-acting', 'masculine' 'hetero' men rather than with gay men like ourselves! Yes?

[Guest Tomcal_]

>Hmmm...is it just me or is there a bit of animosity in

>Tomcal's reply? Sorry if I have offended anyone by asking if

>you think sauna boys are gay or not because they give it up to

>other men... If you read the last two lines in my original

>post, you would see that I do not believe so, but that is just

>my opinion.

>

 

It's just you! lol. seriously, no animosity was intended. sorry if it came across that way.

 

>In addition, I also believe that most of us who go to

>countries like Brazil, Cuba, Dominican Republic, and others do

>so because we prefer to have sex with 'straight',

>'straight-acting', 'masculine' 'hetero' men rather than with

>gay men like ourselves! Yes?

 

No! Speaking just for me, the thought never occured to me to go to Rio to have sex with "straight appearing" guys. That is the only type of guys I date here in the U.S. and there are as many "str. appearing , masculine guys here as in Rio or London(well ok, maybe not London..LOL ). Whether here or in Rio or wherever, I go out with guys I find attractive. The reason I go to a country like Brazil, is:

 

1) I am and always have been attracted to Latins(my friend Doug, who many of the posters have met, being a exception)

 

2)The availability of 25 - 30 guys in a sauna to have sex with is very exciting to me as I only came out 8 years ago and am kinda making up for lost time! LOL

 

3) I will let other posters with more experience confirm this, but from what I am told, the guys who escort in Rio, do more and do it better with more passion then a great many of the escorts in the U.S.

I realize that's a broad generaliztion, but I have sure heard it alot from alot the the M4M's I have met that have gone to Rio. For the hour you are with them, many of the Rio guys make you feel more like their boyfriend, then your boyfriend does! I think they are wonderful actors, and they are doing a job, but they do it really well! I am not foolish enough to mistake the illusion provided as "love", but for that hour you are in a great fantasy that they are excellent at providing.

[Guest LatinoRican]

Thanks for your response! I do enjoy gay-on-gay relationships, have had many, and my last one lasted for eight years. However, I find that having sex with a supposedly 'straight' guy or whatever one wants to call them, like the sauna boys an extra turn on!

 

Anybody else care to comment?

[+ Axiom2001]

LatinoRican- when I was in Brasil in October of last year, some of my hottest sexual encounters were with men who professed to be ativo/or have girl friends or wives. There was Marivas (Carlos) in Salvador (Bahia), Caique in Sao Paulo (a super-cutie and sensual young hottie) and Russo and Moreno (Marcio) in Rio. All of these guys were truly a turn-on for me, and to make a long story brief:I didn't care if they were straight or gay (Oh, those damn labels) just as long as they left me stimulated and immensely satisfied. :9 :-) :9

[Guest LatinoRican]

A final comment before I let this thread die. Please, bear with me!

 

I am Puerto Rican. In latin/hispanic countries, activities/roles in homsexual acts are very clear cut. You are either gay (maricón, pájaro...) or you are a straight guy (bugarrón, miché...) who has sex with gay men for some type of benefit.

 

As I grew up and discovered my sexual identity, I had sex or relationships with other gay men like myself. When I went to NY to college, I continued to interact with other gay men with which I had similar interests: concerts, intellectual activities, gay discos, Bette Midler, etc.)

 

After I finished my studies and return to Puerto Rico, I found out that many of my gay friends would have nothing to do in terms of sexual relationships with another gay person. They would only go out with straight guys which they would usually pick up in lower-class neighborhoods or proyects. These guys would have sex with my friends in exchange for a few joints or maybe Qualudes which were popular at that time. My friends would consider me a 'lesbian' of sorts for going out with other gay guys.

 

In time, I too began to go out with the guys my friends introduced me to and little by little I began to move away from gay on gay relationships. Today, it has come to the point where I can not remember the last time I picked up another gay guy in a bar or disco and took him home. My sexual relationships are exclusively with 'straight' guys be it here in Puerto Rico, Brazil, Cuba, or wherever else I may go. Yes, I went to Le Boy and Incontru's, but just to dance and let off some extra energy. I went to the saunas for the sex.

 

Is this good? Bad? I do not know. It's just the way it is.

 

Thanks again for your comments!

[Guest Tomcal_]

It's not good or bad. It's what makes you happy, comfortable and sexually fulfilled and if that's what does it for you, Great! all of us are different. Don't worry about the labels or what other guys say you should do/say/act. Do what YOU want to do!! and have a Great Time!

[Guest Gringo]

In olden days, a gay man was a man who had sex with other men. If your friends are suggesting that you are "lesbian" if you go to bed with other gay men, it sounds as if they do not believe that gay men are really men. So the "real" men would be those who do not seek out other men, but agree to have sex with you not for emotional reasons, but for some form of compensation.

 

So if that is your preference, you appear to be a gay man who prefers to have sex with other men who are not gay.

 

That is only problematic if it is a problem for you. A gay man who prefers "straight" or "real" men, remains by definition a gay man.

 

But what do you call the men you have sex with? Are they gay, straight or bi? I don't think its important, and in fact can really fuck up your mind, to insist on labeling. Where do you draw the line? Do they mysteriously cross the line when they kiss you or roll over, or perform witout compensation?

 

My personal definition of a straight man is one who would not have sex with another man for love or money. I remember meeting one in 1968. Haven't met another since. I call the men I go to bed with "lovers." I do it for pleasure and wheather the loving lasts one hour or five years---the sincerity and depth of MY input cannot be diminished.

 

If it works for you and no one is being harmed, tell your friends to fuck off. :+

[rapaz7]

>He was a bit intimidating

>to me at first, but as we spoke, he whispered in my ear, "Eu

>vou ser seu mulher." (I will be your woman.) Well, you can

>imagine the rest; he did live up to his word. What excited me

>the most is that he was the brashest of the bunch, the one you

>would least expect to bottom. Was he gay? I didn't think

>so.

>

>Opinions? Comments?

 

I am starting to think that this post was just put here by you as some kind of experiment to see what people say. I have been to Brazil four times on vacation starting in 1988. My Portuguese language is good enough so that sometimes people ask me what part of Brazil I am from. I was born and raised in New York. I think I know the mentality of Brazilian guys pretty well because I have developed strong friendships with several guys that have lasted over several years. Anyway my impression is that a Brazilian man would sooner kill himself that refer to himself as a "woman". The only gay guys, if you can call them that, who would do that are the transvestites you see on streetcorners or the drag queens that perform in the shows. If you are saying that a Brazilian guy would take the passive role, well yes, there are those who do that, but for extra money. There are also many guys who have sex with other men but will only be active no matter what. This is not just a fleeting impression that I alone have, it's embedded in the culture. A macho Brazilian guy call himself a "woman"?, that's when you will see it snowing on Copacabana beach.

[Trixie]

LatinoRican, the comments of your friends only show how little they think of women, not of you.

In my understanding of hispanic culture, a man may fuck whom he pleases. As long as he is doing the fucking.

But fucking someone is different than loving someone. If your friends tease you for having tender feelings for some other man whom you're doing, and call you a lesbian, well, tell them that lesbians are some of the strongest, most beautiful people you've met.

La Trix

[Guest LatinoRican]

Hmmm...and I thought this thread had cum to its end!

 

To rapaz7: The truth is that the incident did happen to me. But, of course, you may choose to believe whatever you wish.

 

To Trixie: Thanks for your comments! There is a large number of latin/hispanic gay men that would never consider having a relationship involving sex with another gay man. They prefer to look for straight men for sex and relationships even though what goes on behind closed doors is anybody's guess! My long-term relationships have been with gay men like myself, but I have had "adventures" with straight guys in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Cuba, Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil, and the list goes on... Bye!

[Guest tommy15]

I am very weary of American gay males, all the bitchiness, back-stabbing, and cliques. How refreshing to be among masculine, all-male, sincere men!!! In my considerable experience as a bonafide queer, straight and bi men have ALWAYS been the best in bed. I am going to Rio with my partner of 30+ years to FORGET about feminized

gay americans, Europeans, christians, and other republicans. Repression is making me nausious. Can't wait to bed REAL men!

[Guest Gringo]

AMEN!! I think its really so much more than looks or basic packaging. And I think what makes Brasilian men hot for me is more than presentation or performance. I think its really about joy!!

 

Forget the labels and position-biased gobbely-gook. Brasilian men not only enjoy sex, they have fun making love. There is a joy, a spirit, a spontaneity, a spark and an sparkle that I no longer find in American men. I recently returned from 10 weeks in Brasil that included Christmas and New Years. I had wonderful adventures daily and made love at least every other day.

 

I have been home now about 3 weeks and have had disappointing, tired and half-hearted encounters with 3 men. I don’t expect things to get much better until I return to Mother Brasil and the men who know how to do it right! I left more than my heart in Brasil---I left my spirit and my passion. I have returned to my homeland and feel so alien.