Fingerprinting delays?

[Guest njjim]

Without getting involved in the political aspects of the fingerprinting issue, does anyone have any reliable information about the delays involved in this process. The press is reporting delays of up to 9 hrs.

[BillyZ]

Here in Sao Paulo, I am hearing a

wide range of delays from Americans

I've talked to in the past two days

-- from 30 minutes to five hours.

 

While it does seem to be true that

the Brazilians are figuring out how

to administer things less slowly

(and the digital machines that the

U.S. uses are presumably on order),

a lot still seems to depend on...

 

(1) how many other flights have

landed at the same time; and

(2) where you sit on the airplane

(i.e., how far back you are in the

immigration lines).

 

Thus, a ten-minute delay for someone

in First Class who races to immigration

first can become compounded into a

multi-hour delay for someone at the

rear of a jumbo jet. I talked to two

guys who were on the same place and

one got through in 40 minutes and the

other took two hours.

 

So, the tips I've gathered thus far

are to get seats toward the front of

the plane, use those miles to upgrade,

minimize carry-on to maximize casually

racing to immigration, bring a good

novel and Handi-wipes! And, of course,

then brief your colleagues at M4M. :-)

[trilingual]

According to local news, the delays are getting shorter, and the digital equipment is supposed to be in place tomorrow (seeing is believing, though). Even without the digital equipment, in SP (the main airport at which foreign travelers arrive) they switched to taking only one or two thumbprints, and not a full set of prints, which speeded things up.

 

The nine hours thing seems to be a bit of whining by U.S. authorities. I'm told that happened here in Rio on the first day the court order was enforced here because they only had one federal policeman available at the airport with the necessary equipment, and he had to run back and forth between the two terminals to process passengers. After that they added more staff and equipment, and the time decreased.

 

I would note that clearing customs and immigration in Brazil could be a slow process even before the new procedures. In the past year or two they've been X-raying arriving baggage for contraband, which slows down the process. More often than not they seem to be shorthanded in terms of staffing the immigration booths, which also generates long lines. So browse around the duty free shop for a while until the lines thin out, or have some reading material to keep yourself occupied. One way or the other, you may find yourself waiting in lines.

[Mavica]

Apologists

 

Some of the Brazil apologists need to travel more widely in the world . . . because their inexperience is showing. Exaggeration . . . exaggeration . . . exaggeration. What's wrong with telling the truth? Brazil Fuc*ed up and is targeting for discrimination travelers from the U.S. Does it never end? Like the policy in the U.S. or not, it has wide-spread public support. And, when travelers in the U.S. read of Brazil's attack upon U.S. travelers, travelers thinking of heading for Brazil in the future began re-thinking their plans. Stupid . . . stupid . . . stupid. The "knee-jerk" support on this board for such idiocy isn't surprising.

[trilingual]

RE: Apologists

 

FYI, Mavica, most of us are far better-travelled than you'll ever dream of being (not to mention that most of us aren't so U.S.-centric that we haven't benefitted and learned from our experiences travelling or living abroad).

 

You should also brush up on your reading skills. It's clear from all of the postings on this topic that we know that Brazil is retaliating against the U.S. Most frequent travelers to Brazil don't care if Brazil does that or not, although there's widespread consensus that reflexively applying reciprocal measures isn't necessarily in Brazil's best interest, as in this case. That's a far cry from your characterization of the postings.

 

As for a wholesale drop-off in U.S. visitors to Brazil, there's no evidence of that. There have been a few cancellations, but nothing in droves. The ID procedures are improving, and this morning's papers report that the local tourist authorities started greeting U.S. travelers to Rio with free T-shirts, flowers, discount coupons, etc., which apparently went over very well. The local news reports interviewing arriving American passengers indicate that the process is no longer taking very long, and hardly anyone has complained about it. In addition, a federal judge issued an injunction yesterday against the fingerprinting/photo process here in Rio. It's not clear yet if the order is being implemented yet, but the situation is very fluid and changes every few hours!

 

Meanwhile, if all of this offends your sense of privilege because you're American, it won't offend any of the rest of us if you just stay home in Fortress U.S.A., or if you just go vacation in that still-unnamed tourist paradise of yours where the men are SO much better-looking, sexy, and better-hung than in Brazil. (And where they presumably don't have any entry requirements for U.S. visitors.) That'll leave more for the rest of us poor ignorant fools here in Brazil! :+

[+ Lucky]

RE: Apologists

 

"FYI, Mavica, most of us are far better-travelled than you'll ever dream of being (not to mention that most of us aren't so U.S.-centric that we haven't benefitted and learned from our experiences travelling or living abroad).

 

You should also brush up on your reading skills"

 

I got this far into tri's reply when I realized that he was not attacking the issue, but...

[trilingual]

RE: Apologists

 

You're right, I wasn't just attacking the issue. It gets a bit tiresome to be told by someone who's only been to Brazil once (as I recall) and didn't much like it that we're all fools and not well-travelled when he hasn't met virtually any of us. Mavica also attacked posters for holding views that any cursory reading of the threads on this subject would demonstrate are not what anyone here believes.

 

Mavica and anyone else who feels they have some God-given right to go wherever they want just because they're Americans (and don't feel that Americans should be treated the way the U.S. treats other people) should probably just stay home in cloud-cuckoo-land. Foreign travel just isn't for everyone, and right about now the last thing we need is hordes of ugly Americans traveling the world being nasty and patronizing to people and just pissing them off even more at the U.S.

 

And a cheery good-night! x(

[+ Lucky]

RE: Apologists

 

I am looking forward to getting fingered! I mean printed!

 

(love ya, tri!)

[Guest Gringo]

RE: Apologists

 

I say again, from your lips to His ears.:+

[Guest msclonly]

For God's sake......

 

....take the finger and print it, so I can get going on my way.

 

Am LQQKing for all the benefits to be enjoyed moreso due to these

regulations!

 

 

 

[Guest YR]

RE: Apologists

 

I totally agree with Lucky's characterization of Tri's post. It is one thing for a novice or even a long-time poster to make this type of mistake in light of HooBoy's repeated requests for a "kinder, gentler" forum and to address the post not attack the poster; but, when a moderator must stoop to this type of post it only encourages those who would go even further in their attacks on the poster.

 

I am sure that Tri's actions were of good intentions, but if one in his position can not curb his tongue to meet the expected action/re-action of another post, then perhaps he should take a break as a moderator and enjoy all the beauty and fun that Brazil has to offer him in his home away from home.

[VaHawk]

RE: Apologists

 

Removed. Personal attack. Added no information to Escorts South board.

[gulliver]

RE: Apologists

 

VA Hawk would perhaps stand more of a chance in helping me form an opinion on these issues if he was not so vitriolic and nasty. Boy, talk about one American I would NOT want to live next door to !!!

 

Trust me on one thing, if anyone reading these posts had ever met Mavica during his trip to Brazil, you would understand Tri's comments.

Some people give American tourists a bad name. Enough said.

[trilingual]

RE: Apologists

 

Removed. (Ill-considered response by the moderator to the afore-mentioned personal attack!)

[trilingual]

RE: Apologists

 

>then perhaps he

>should take a break as a moderator and enjoy all the beauty

>and fun that Brazil has to offer him in his home away from

>home.

 

Believe me, I'm seriously thinking about it. Life in Rio with my adorable new boyfriend is far too good to let it be spoiled by the likes of some of the posters here! And there aren't enough hours in the day to enjoy his company, as it is!

[+ Lucky]

RE: Apologists

 

Can't we all just get along? Admittedly, I don't know Mavica, but I have traveled enough to have seen many Americans behave boorishly in a foreign country. They are not people I want to be associated with.

 

We also have people in the message center who behave boorishly at times, and I don't want to be associated with them either. Hooboy has asked for a new year to start out civilly and I intend to be civil. I do think tri's contributions here have been enormous, and I hope that he stays on. But I do encourage him to focus on the issues. At least with mavica, tri was quick to admit his mistake.

[taylorky]

RE: Apologists

 

Removed. (Support of previous personal attack, plus additional personal attack on moderator. NOT a smart move! No additional useful information for Escorts South.)

[trilingual]

RE: Apologists

 

Any more personal attack posts will be removed. They add nothing to the discussions on this board. VaHawk's now-removed screed came out-of-the-blue (and he's evidently never been South of the U.S.A. or has any interest in the area other than posting his personal attacks) and then taylorKY got into the act.

 

This is a board to exchange information about Latin America and the Caribbean, and not one for posters to just sling mud at each other. Maybe HooBoy can set up a "Mud Wrestling" board just for that. The occasional dig can be tolerated here (we're all human) but wholesale slime isn't going to happen on Escorts South as long as I'm the moderator.

 

Got it, guys?

[Guest msclonly]

RE: Apologists

 

Praise the Lord for civility!

 

I am all for it!

 

Am very tired of reading rants, repetitiou name calling,

and other meaningless immature poets!

 

 

 

}(

[Guest ihpguy]

RE: fingerprinting

 

I just arrived Wednesday morning in Rio de Janiero nonstop frpm Miami via American Airlines, so I am not informed what is the situation in Sao Paolo about the fingerprinting. But my experience in Rio was hilarious. Due to my own stupidity I had to be finerprinted twice. Thanks to this wonderful board, I had my ammonia-treated handiwipe at the ready in my carry-on bag. The very freindly immigration office inked my thumb, thatś right, only one finger on one hand and then instead of waiting for them to press my thumb on the paper, I quickly wiped it off. I was so intent on keeping it clean for some cute garoto's rearend at the Pointe.

So they inked my thumb once more, pressed it on a piece of paper, did my quci wipe once more and passed my handiwipe to the gentleman bwhind me next in line. At the same time, another immigration officer took a quick, single digital photograph. The whole process took at most two minutes incluging the wait. Going through Schiphol in Amsterdam when all of the flight arrive at the same time can take much, much longer. I was in the 12th row of a 767 so I was off the plane early, But there were two separate lines about equal in length and the other line for Brazilians, etc. did not have to go through the print/photo requirements. And I did receive the welcome pamphlet/welcome guide, T-shirt and a pink rose. I do not know if they gave me a pink one as clocking me as a sister of Dorothy? In any event, once I got to my new home on Paqueta, I forgot to recut it and place it in water and last night after returning from The Pointe, it was limp and dead, kind of like myself. And I am supposed to be a florist! In any event I am here for nineteen glorious days and after signing off, hello Estacao!

[trilingual]

RE: Liberalizing Brazilian Visa Requirements?

 

The whole visa brouhaha may end up having an unexpected silver lining! Today's Globo reports talks by the Minister of Tourism about changing from the current cumbersome visa system for Americans (requiring a visit to a Brazilian consulate and a US$100 fee) to providing "on-the-spot" visas at airports and ports of entry, and waiving the fee. Maintaining the visa (even in such a simplified form) allows Brazil to maintain the fiction of acting reciprocally. However, an "on-the-spot" system would certainly be much more in Brazil's best interest. After all, Brazil isn't facing threats of terrorism from the U.S., nor is it facing an avalance of illegal immigrants from the U.S. (with the exception of a few M4Mers who've fallen hard for the allure of Brazil)! What IS in Brazil's best interest is attracting many more American tourists than it currently gets, and easing the visa requirement (and eliminating the fee) will go a very long way towards making Brazil competitive with Mexico, the Caribbean, and other sun-and-sand destinations popular with Americans. Let's hope this comes to pass!

 

BTW, on another point, I noticed that my passport wasn't stamped either going into Brazil on my most recent trip, or upon exiting yesterday. (Both entry and exit were in Rio.) The immigration officer just picked up the second sheet of the tourist card, and that was all! As I'm pretty sure that Brazil doesn't have a computerized record of entries/exits, if this is now the practice it will make it even more difficult to enforce the 180-day per calendar year limit on stays by persons who are tourists. What have been the experiences of other recent travelers (like within the past six months)? Did the Brazilian authorities stamp your passport? Or just the tourist card?

[Guest msclonly]

RE: Liberalizing Brazilian Visa Requirements?

 

If the U.S. is carefully screening foreign visitors, then it is like a prescreening for those going to Brazil. Could be a BIGG savings for Brazil! So they should be joyful for the free service provided for Brazil.

This is inspite of all the wasted scoulding posts about the U.S. procedures.

I am surprised, that so few have enough information of what is really going on to criticize the people who are trying to make it harder for terrorists to do damage in the States.

 

[lfarj]

RE: Liberalizing Brazilian Visa Requirements?

 

Let me give you some good news. Rio and SP ´s airports are using the same machine as the US, so it just takes a few seconds.

But let me profit the ocasion to give you a brazilian view of the problem. I´m no nationalist or anything but reciprocity is a diplomatic procedure. Most of you that come here often know that we have nothing agaisnt americans, much on the contrary. Brazilians are warm, open, easygoing. But we can not stand some american points of view full of arrogance. To get an american visa you must be wealthy, if you´re not You have to stand on an enormous line at the american consulates and have to proove that you´re not going to stay in the US.So very few brazilians go to the US. Expensive and humiliating. Your civil servants over here are arrogant and behave like your president, por supuesto!!

So, we do need your dollars badly but I think we need respect even more.

Felipe

[Guest msclonly]

UNwealthy Brazilians traveling to the U.S.

 

If most Brazilians are not wealthy and $100. is too high for their Visa, HOW can they afford to travel to the closest U.S. port, Miami? It costs money to fly, and far as I know, there are no cheap banana boats.

 

Yet, I meet a lot of Brazilians dancing in Miami and New York!!

 

 

 

But it might explain the attempted stow aways.

 

 

:+

[lfarj]

RE: UNwealthy Brazilians traveling to the U.S.

 

Sorry, but you do see a happy few in Miami and NYC. Out of 170 millions the are just that : a happy few.

Felipe