WARNING/ Sauna boy Isreal a thief

[axebahia]

RE: A penny here, a penny there, and before you know ....

 

>It is not the amount, so much as it is to let this kind of

>behavior go on to effect many more 'victims'! It could lead

>to hundreds or thousands unchecked. Or could lead to some

>nasty outcome, when finally confronted. Of course, you know

>it starts with little amounts, then increases.

 

That's right if you rip a hustler off for a small amount, he will rip you off for a small amount too. It could lead to some

nasty outcome, when finally confronted. Of course, you know

it starts with little amounts, then increases.

[world traveler]

Perhaps, you could tell me what is right with it and how a life of prostitution is a positve in ones life, rather than a negative. All I am saying, is there are certainly better ways to earn a living, and if this person is forced from prostitution because of what he has done, he may, "may" being the operative word move on to something better.

 

World Travler

[+ Lucky]

RE: WARNING

 

"No promises though if he`s still in a lynching mode."

 

Now it is revealed that funseeker is really Clarence Thomas! What's with this lynching talk?

 

I don't drink, but you could buy me a can of coke as long as there is no pubic hair left on it!

 

 

[Big Daddy]

Isreal was and I guess still is a very nice young man. We treated him very well, in fact royally by Brazilian standards. He offered to give me a massage for free, but when he was finished, I paid him 50 realis, which is double the normal massage fee. While in the shower, he lifted another 200 realis. You are right. It is only $70 and is not the end of the world to me. I was upset because I considered him a friend. He was the roommate of Wan Hallen and Adriano, who have become very special for me. Wan Hallen was especially upset that he ripped me off considering how close we have become. I never did report him to Junior because he was already blacklisted the same day for ripping off a Japanese client of 202. When I get back to Phoenix, I will post more thoughts on Brazil and the boys of Brazil.

[trilingual]

I can't speak about the lives of male prostitutes elsewhere, but in Brazil these guys are doing well and mostly enjoy their work. They are not in a coercive situation, because they work for themselves, not anyone else. (At least, that's the case with the sauna boys. The ones who work for some of the escort agencies are employees of the agency.)

 

In a country where the monthly minimum wage is about R$240 (or about US$80 a month) work at the saunas is a very profitable way to make a living for a lower middle-class or working-class boy with good looks, a good body and a big dick but little education and few chances of finding a good-paying job in the very depressed Brazilian labor market. Compared to the minimum wage, these guys can make from R$2000 - R$4000 a month, which is a LOT of money in Brazil.

 

Some of the guys seem to spend all their leftover earnings (after helping their families) on clothes and discos and other frivolities, but others are smarter and are investing their earnings in their own futures. Some are paying for their own education. Others are saving to buy/build a house, or open a business of their own. Bruno is an example of someone who's been very successful and is building up a thriving business producing household packaging materials like aluminum foil for sale to local supermarket chains! Others have bought their own taxicabs, or several cabs. Others have opened shops with their earnings. Brazilians, on the whole, are strivers, and trying to get ahead in life. If selling their youth and beauty will get them where they otherwise won't be able to go, they don't feel any great compunctions about it. It's not illegal, and the Brazilian attitude towards sex being what it is, it isn't considered particularly horrible, either. (Xuxa, the star of Brazil's most successful kid's TV show, posed nude for Playboy before she went on to her TV career. Everyone knows about her nude pix and nobody cares at all. She's been one of the world's highest paid entertainers for years now!) Of course, most of the sauna guys try to be discreet about their business, but many have posed for magazines or videos, so their families and friends know what they do. They're still accepted.

 

Usually these guys stay in the business for two or three years until they've saved up enough to follow their dream, and they move on. A few seem to be long-timers, but for most two or three years is plenty for them. Then they can move on, open a business or whatever, get married and have kids, and have memories of a spicy past!

 

In short, it might be a good idea to park your American or European notions of sexuality and prostitution at the airport before visiting Brazil, because they don't hold true here. It's a different world, a different culture, and they have different ways of doing things. And are we ever fortunate that they do!

[trilingual]

RE: A penny here, a penny there, and before you know ....

 

>>It is not the amount, so much as it is to let this kind of

>>behavior go on to effect many more 'victims'! It could

>lead

>>to hundreds or thousands unchecked. Or could lead to some

>>nasty outcome, when finally confronted. Of course, you

>know

>>it starts with little amounts, then increases.

>

>That's right if you rip a hustler off for a small amount, he

>will rip you off for a small amount too. It could lead to

>some

>nasty outcome, when finally confronted. Of course, you know

>it starts with little amounts, then increases.

 

There you go again. How do you know that the client ripped off the escort? Why do all the other escorts here NOT feel ripped-off when they're paid the going rate or higher? Not that I expect an answer from you, because whenever you can't answer a question you just go off on another attack tangent. Please do us all a favor and treat some other website to your brand of wit and wisdom. We've all had it about to here with it. Thank you so much!

[trilingual]

>>And nobody that I've met here is exploiting the escorts.

>The

>>visiting M4Mers are all paying the going market rate (or

>even

>>more, in spite of advice to the contrary). In addition,

>>they've provided many gifts for the guys, buy them clothes

>and

>>athletic shoes, take them on excursions and to restaurants

>>they'd never be able to afford on their own, and otherwise

>>treat them much better than most local clients do.

>

>And anybody who disagrees you must be censored for doing so?

>Don't you have the confidence of your convictions?

 

No, you got censored because you're accusing people of doing reprehensible things when you have no facts or direct knowledge that they're doing anything of the kind.

[Luv2play]

I think that was very well put. The problem with many tourists is that they cannot get out of their own mind-set and see the world from another perspective. This is probably more the case now that we can get on a jet and pluck ourselves down in another culture the same evening.

 

I read a lot and I particularly enjoy writers from an earlier period such as Somerset Maugham. He wrote extensively about his travels in the far East and the South Pacific 80 years ago, when travel to such places entailed trips of many months. He totally immersed himself in the local culture, but still wrote of his experiences from the viewpoint of a Victorian Englishman.

 

The trick today is to try to put yourself in the shoes of the locals (if not in their pants!). And see things from their vantage. I do and I find it much more rewarding than being judgemental based on my own culture and background.

[axebahia]

RE: A penny here, a penny there, and before you know ....

 

>Not

>that I expect an answer from you, because whenever you can't

>answer a question you just go off on another attack tangent.

 

It is hard to have a dialogue with a knife-weilding censor. If you want a dialogue, you will have to learn to control your temper or should I say distemper.

 

>Please do us all a favor and treat some other website to your

>brand of wit and wisdom. We've all had it about to here with

>it. Thank you so much!

 

Ah yes, once again Rabbi Trisexual speaks for the millions. There are doctors who can help you with that condition as at least one of your sexual tourist friends in Rio can attest.

[+ Axiom2001]

If this goes where I want it placed-- it'll fit, but if it doesn't, I'll write two comments regarding this thread.

 

It's unfortunate that Israel stole; it's also good that Big Daddy reported it here for all future clients of Israel to know, but I would not report Israel to Jr. of two of the saunas where Israel works. For many of the boys, working in the saunas at this juncture in their lives is the only viable work they can get. A lot of this is based on their lack of education (...was told that the government schools are rather abysmal in Brazil,and the lack of jobs that pay a wage on which one can live decently. I saw an innumerable amount of struggling to make ends meet when I was in Rio. The city was rife with impoverished people. I saw so many folks selling things to survive.

 

I definitely do not condone Israel's purported actions, but if I were the one who had been ripped off, I'd do as mentioned in the aforementioned sentences. I'd chalk it up and report it at this site as BD did.

 

To VHawk- last October there were threads regarding the exploitation of Europeans and No Americans of the guys in the saunas; I'd suggest that you do a search and go back and read those volumes. I don't consider myself as an exploiter of anyone in any situation. Enough said on this issue-- check out those archives....

[+ Axiom2001]

Tri-- I applaud everything that you wrote in paragraph two and onward; I also agree with Luv2Play's take on this issue! Both of you wrote sensibly and saliently because of your openmindedness vs a few posters who seem to view the situation myopically!

[axebahia]

>Both of you wrote sensibly and saliently because of your

>openmindedness vs a few posters who seem to view the situation

>myopically!

 

Good is bad.

 

White is black.

 

Might is right.

 

Right is wrong.

 

Exploitation is open-minded?

 

Opposing Sexual tourism must indeed myopic.

 

Interesting world you folks inhabit.

[+ Axiom2001]

Axe...why do you always feel obliged to respond to our comments with your biases and judgemental attitude? Does this add or distract from the initial thread? You are very perplexing, and I shall NOT play tit-for-tat with you and your one-sideness! Enough written.... Axiom2001

[axebahia]

>why do you always feel obliged to respond to our

>comments with your biases and judgemental attitude?

 

Why does it bother you and your sexual tourist friends so much that someone might not agree with your conduct and is free to say so here or anywhere?

[Guest msclonly]

Way of life

 

30 years ago, it was common knowledge and repeatedly told to leave ANYTHING of value in the safe and not to wear real jewelry. In fact, we were told to leave it at home! This was during a Carnival tour. Petty theft was very common and to be expected without making a big case of it, like we might here according to our beliefs about such things.

As it was pointed out above, some of these guys are desperate for a better life. And seeing the way we tavel and live with some extravagance, it is easy for them to take advantage of our carelessness in tempting them. To me, it is wise and a given to be prudent in not leaving things out to be taken.

 

Perhaps it is as much our fault, when we do not take simple precautions.

 

An advantage of the use of the saunas is a means to preventing any of these surprises. I believe we were warned about bringing people to our rooms on several occasions.

 

:7 :7

[axebahia]

RE: Way of life

 

>And seeing the way we tavel and live with

>some extravagance, it is easy for them to take advantage of

>our carelessness in tempting them. To me, it is wise and a

>given to be prudent in not leaving things out to be taken.

>

>Perhaps it is as much our fault, when we do not take simple

>precautions.

>

...

>I believe we were warned about

>bringing people to our rooms on several occasions.

 

B I N G O

 

Very well stated. I remember being in the beautiful Cape Town home of a lawyer friend last Spring as she locked every door as she moved from room to room, and she complained about not being able to wear expensive jewelry and carry expensive cameras in the streets since the fall of apartheid. It apparently never occurred to her that the income/wealth disparities from which she continues to benefit is part of the reason she has to lock each door as she moves from room to room, or wear expensive jewelry and carry expensive cameras in the streets since the fall of apartheid.

 

I have never had a problem in South Afrca or Brazil, but then again I am not a fool. I have no sympathy for fools. Sorry, id that offends Rabbi Trisexual or the Axiomatic whiner.

[dick_nyc]

RE: Way of life

 

Given the tone of your postings here I am surprised you did not inform her of the reason for her having to lock her doors. You obviously thought of it. If you did what was her reaction? Surely you can share that with us all!!

[axebahia]

RE: Way of life

 

>If you did what was her

>reaction? Surely you can share that with us all!!

 

She acknowledged the point, and looked kind of sheepish until the conversation changed. She did not indulge in the ritualistic self-rationalizations that we have heard from some on this thread, and that we hear regularly in this lounge.

[floridarob]

Question for Axebahia

 

I don't post much but I have a question for you:

 

I just wonder what you are really like. Do you believe everything you say or are you just trying to annoy certain people?

 

I imagine you sitting at your keyboard laughing your ass off or being serious about what you write, the latter is kind of scary.

 

I'm curious why you are reading/posting on an escort site with some of the things you have written...have you ever hired an escort or payed for sex?

 

Why don't you tell us something about yourself (your profile is disabled) so maybe we can understand where you are coming from when you write.

 

I'm not being a smartass and any reply you have to me wont start a pissing contest with me but it may make me laugh more...but come on fill us in on axebahia.

 

Later

[axebahia]

RE: Question for Axebahia

 

belongs in the religion forum.

[trilingual]

RE: Question for Axebahia

 

Yet you continue to duck answering the question about your own sexual tourism, seeing that you claim to travel extensively in varous countries, hire escorts while traveling there (and presumably pay them the going rate locally), and in some cases break laws being involved with prostitutes where that is illegal, as it is everywhere in the U.S. except parts of Nevada. So how did you end up on a pedestal? If you could ever get over your own hypocrisy and prevarication you might be a much more appreciated poster.

 

And no, there's nothing wrong with opposing exploitative sexual tourism or the policies of the Israeli government. It's just that you go over the cliff with it, accusing everyone here of being exploiters when that's not the case, and veering from legitimate criticism of the policies of the Israeli government into wide-ranging anti-Semitic attacks on Jews in general and the right of Israel to exist at all as a nation-state. (You've repeatedly stated that you want all Israeli Jews of European descent gone. Since a large number of them are third or fourth generation native Israelis, where exactly would you have them go? Into the sea?)

[axebahia]

RE: Question for Axebahia

 

>I don't post much but I have a question for you:

 

I am sure you will understand that I really can't answer your questions if my responses are deleted or edited, but the responses to my responses are permitted to stand. Suffice to say, not everyone agrees with exploitative sexual tourism, or any of the other ideas I regularly oppose in other M4M lounges, and my prior question to you would be what makes you believe otherwise?

[IamI2002]

RE: A penny here, a penny there, and before you know ....

 

Deleted. Gratuitous personal attack.

[floridarob]

RE: Question for Axebahia

 

you must be a politician

because i dont understand what you just said...email me your response since it was deleted.

[axebahia]

RE: Question for Axebahia

 

>you must be a politician

>because i dont understand what you just said...email me your

>response since it was deleted.

 

Sorry, I did not save it. What I can tell you is that it had less to do with religion than Rabbi Trisexual's response to it. We live in interesting times, as the Chinese prophets usedto say!