Cidade de Deus

[Guest needtraining]

I just saw this Brazilian film. It's quite well done but depressing as hell. Any comments from our experienced travelers? Do you think any of the guys working at the saunas come from this kind of tough life?

[sf traveler]

I think most (but certainly not all) of the boys working in the sauna come from such backgrounds. While they may be poor, just like here, most poor people are not criminals--they're just poor. While the film was fascinating, it was about a crime war that took place in the early to mid 1980s and is now over and done with, although, unfortunately, a new crime wave is taking place now because the government is cracking down on drug trafickers. But, anyway, the film also made clear that not everyone in the favela was a crook. In fact, the film showed very well how most of the criminals' victims were also residents of the favela. People for whom neither the police nor any other segment of society provides protection or support. The most amazing thing about most of the sauna boys that I've meet is that coming from such a background, they are still warm, honest and sincere. SF Traveler

[CarloRio]

I totally agree with our SF buddy... But must say that the war goes on forever on the favelas... it never stopped. But most guys are very sweet and finantially deprived, others just don't have any perspective in life, others enjoy their work and others think it's the easier way to face their own sexuality... remember Brasil is a Catholic country so lots of these boys feel guilty about being gay...But if you are in Copacabana, Barra, Ipanema you shouldn't be very worried about gang fights and police ridings, these things only happen in the favelas... everyday.:7

[Knabegeil]

Can I chime in about Cidade de Deus too? When I went to see it, I didn't expect an up-beat type of movie, so the reality it protrayed came as no surprise. Still, one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that there is something of a positive ending insofar as the photographer finds "a way out" through his work.

 

What did impress me quite a bit was the quality of the film. I expected the gritiness of cinema verite which the movie delivered. But I felt that the way it was presented was very skillful. Consider the opening sequence with the chicken. That, just by itself was good. But to tie it all in with the entire film at the end was very effective. Sure, describing this technique in words may seem to make this ploy tired and hackneyed. But film doesn't depend on words. It is a visual medium. And so, for me anyway, this technique was very effective.

 

Hope others like it too.

[Guest Jake]

Although there are certainly substantial problems in many of the favelas, I came away from this movie - which I thought very well done - with the distinct impression from fashions, etc. that it was set in the much crazier days of the 70's, 80's and earlier 90's.

 

Very much like New York with Gulliani, Rio got a strong mayor in the early 90's who cleaned and safened the city up considerably.

[dick_nyc]

According to a couple of people I met in Rio, Giuliani was the advisor to the strong mayor as to how to clean up the city.

[trilingual]

Unfortunately, things have deteriorated again. The drug traffickers are trying to get revenge for some significant busts of gang leaders by launching attacks on middle-class areas and tourist sites that usually have been relatively trouble-free. I think this is temporary, because the federal government is trying to isolate the arrested narcos in prisons far from Rio with no cell phone access, but for the time being it's a bit worrisome and ALERTNESS is called for!

 

On a different track, there have been regular semi-riots downtown between the cops and the street vendors, whom the city is trying to clear out (they pay no taxes and undercut the prices of legitimate merchants, not to mention blocking the entrances to their stores and impeding pedestrian movement, in general). So if you visit downtown and one of these fun-fests starts, leave the area immediately. It's not a spectator sport! Again, this is likely to be a temporary situation, but for the moment visitors should know about it and be prepared to react if they run into tense situations (to understate things).

[marko]

I agree with SFTraveler. The guys I have met (with some exceptions, of course) in the saunas and on the streets of Rio, Sao Paulo, and Porto Alegre--and in Mexico and Peru, for that matter--have been amazingly beautiful, in the first place, and incredibly gentle, honest, and personable, in the second. Despite very poor backgrounds--some of them can hardly read; problems in the family, unemployment etc., etc.--I have found the young men of Latin America to be really fine, admirable people. Despite the poverty, lack of opportunity and education, and too often pretty dim prospects for the future, they are optimistic and even cheerful. I find I am treated with genuine respect, couresty, and civility nearly everywhere by nearly everyone and I like those people a lot.

I have posted a few times before and have noted how treating these young men with respect and affection is rewarded more than you'd ever expect. Knowing something of the language opens their world in a way that nothing else can. While it is the case that you don't need Portuguese or Spanish to have a good time in Brasil or Mexico, having some command of the language can make it a GREAT time. I cannot recommend enough learning some Portuguese before you board that flight to Rio. It will make all the difference in the world.

[CarloRio]

And if you need some Portuguese tutors... Romanus will happily provide you with some...

 

Tutors... ok???

 

[+ Axiom2001]

This film was indeed poignant yet disturbing, but as someone mentioned-- I think it was Jake-- the situation depicted is decades old although there are other problems now in Rio as alluded to by Trilingual here and Ernani in another thread.

 

All of the guys that I saw in the sauna as well as outside were seemingly sensitive, thoughtful, etc. SFTraveler cited it well; I am in complete agreement.

 

My friend who went with me to Carnaval "hooked up" with very handsome Luciano whom he spotted and cruised at Maxim's. The next evening, by chance, my friend and I ran into Luciano at Jabba's. We were both ecstatic. We invited the tall carioca to sit with us and converse. Although my friend cannot speak much Spanish and has NO knowledge of Portuguese, he met the challenge. He and Luciano returned to the hotel that evening; they saw each other again several days later when I was invited to come along to Inconturus-- a place I did NOT like. To shorten what I want to say-- my friend saw Luciano a lot; the young handsome man purchased two cds of music used by the samba schools for Carnaval '03; he joined us for lunch at the popular Bahian restaurant in Ipanema, and from what my friend stated on more than one occasion to me-- Luciano abhorred drugs and discussed this component with him. Throughout our time with Luciano-- he displayed only gentlemanly-qualities: he also was into FAMILY: my friend discussed this with me, too!

 

To the guy who wrote the initial thread-- the film could leave one in a dilemma, but if you do your homework as cited in many, many threads throughout this forum on its many pages, you will more than likely meet some boys who live in the favelas but who live wholesome lives in spite of...

[trilingual]

I can only agree with Marko´s observations, 100%!

 

And in spite of the fact that Cidade de Deus is set a couple of decades ago, the situation in the favelas is virtually unchanged. Most of the guys you meet at the saunas DON'T live in favelas, but they come from poor working-class neighborhoods and suburbs that in many cases are only a step up from a favela.

 

Regardless of where they come from, most of the residents of poor neighborhoods are decent people who are trying desperately to make a living and provide a better life for themselves and their families. Crime is rampant, but only a small minority of residents are involved in the drug trade. The rest tend to be hostages to the drug trade and the gang wars because they can't afford to escape to better neighborhoods. The guys who work at the saunas mostly are using their earnings to help themselves and their families move up in life. By and large, they are decent, honorable guys who are using their natural gifts to improve their lot. There are always a few bad apples in the bunch, but fortunately there are surprisingly few. But with a knowledge of the language and a willingness to treat the guys respectfully, you'll find that doors open for you into a world and a rich culture that most foreigners never have a chance to experience.

[dick_nyc]

I would like to recommend (if you can find it) one of my all time favorite movies that is set in Rio during Carnavale. The move Black Orpheus is a Brazilian/French movie made in 1959. The movie is set in the favelas and in the Carnavale settings. I don't know how true to life some of the scenes are which depict the life in the different places.

 

It is beautifully filmed and the main character is HOT. The Brazilian name is either Orfeu Negro or Orfeu do da Carnavale. I have seen it both ways. The movie and the score are just spectacular and well worth seeing.

[Guest Deweywop]

The score to Black Orpheus is by Antonio Carlos Jobim, one of the earliest introductions of this bossa nova genius to the world. It includes the bossa nova classic song "A Felicidade." What I remember thinking during favela scenes was -- damn they had great views! In the US, the higher up a hill you go, the pricier the real estate. That seems to be reversed in South America. In Brazil, the rich folks live at sea level and the poor scramble up the picturesque hillsides. In La Paz, Bolivia, the lower you go in the canyon, the tonier the neighborhood.

[CarloRio]

Just a few notes to clarify some issues... some sauna boys do come from favelas, others from Baixada (burbs), and a few (specially the out-of-town ones) live in small studios in downtown and in Zona Sul... they come from everywhere even from favelas..., and most people who live in the favelas are hard-workers, they do work as maids, janitors, sales clerk etc... only a few of them are criminals... it's pretty much like in the inner cities in the US.

 

As for the poor living in the top of the mountains, it ain't necessarily so... One of the fanciest neighbourhoods in Rio is Joá... top of the mountain... and no favelas around...

 

There's more to know about Rio than many people may think...

 

Um abraço:7

[+ Axiom2001]

>I can only agree with Marko´s observations, 100%!

>

>And in spite of the fact that Cidade de Deus is set a couple

>of decades ago, the situation in the favelas is virtually

>unchanged. Most of the guys you meet at the saunas DON'T live

>in favelas, but they come from poor working-class

>neighborhoods and suburbs that in many cases are only a step

>up from a favela.

>

>Regardless of where they come from, most of the residents of

>poor neighborhoods are decent people who are trying

>desperately to make a living and provide a better life for

>themselves and their families. Crime is rampant, but only a

>small minority of residents are involved in the drug trade.

>The rest tend to be hostages to the drug trade and the gang

>wars because they can't afford to escape to better

>neighborhoods. The guys who work at the saunas mostly are

>using their earnings to help themselves and their families

>move up in life. By and large, they are decent, honorable

>guys who are using their natural gifts to improve their lot.

>There are always a few bad apples in the bunch, but

>fortunately there are surprisingly few. But with a knowledge

>of the language and a willingness to treat the guys

>respectfully, you'll find that doors open for you into a world

>and a rich culture that most foreigners never have a chance to

>experience.

>

>Tri-- I, too, wholeheartedly agree with Marko's analysis as well as yours; perhaps mine was somewhat too simplistic.

Much of what you wrote could also be applied to many of our gang/drug infested ghettos in many of our larger cities. In SF, for instance, I shudder to drive in Bayview/Hunter's Point neighborhood, especially on the main drag (...forgotten the name of the street) unless there has been a remarkable change since the late 80s.

[CT Dick]

I just saw this movie last night. Yes, it is very disturbing but it is also beautifully crafted.

 

I have some questions for Tri, Carlo, or anyone else:

 

Is Cidade de Deus an actual place or just a phrase?

 

Where is the town from the beginning of the movie? It looks a lot like the town in the ending of 'Central Station.'

 

Obrigado,

Dick

[+ Lucky]

I saw the movie this week as well. The opening scene with the chicken really impressed me and was a good way to foretell the story of the favela. It was a depressing movie, but it sure did bring out thoughts about life and death, good and evil, and the fine lines in between.

[trilingual]

Cidade de Deus is an actual "bairro" in Rio de Janeiro. Sorry, I don't know the name of the town you ask about.

[CT Dick]

Tri, which was the C de D, the blocks and blocks of tiny houses where Rocket sold fish early in the movie or the favela at the end? (And, was that earlier town near Rio?)

 

Dick

[CarloRio]

A few notes on Cidade de Deus

 

Cidade de Deus is a neighbourhood in Rio that was formed around the late 60's when they displaced people from a local favela in Leblon (which is a very fancy neighbourhood) to this somewhat distant place.

Nowadays Cidade de Deus is dangerously close to Barra da Tijuca, which is the nouveau riche neighbourhood in Rio, where all the emergentes live... thus in the future their dweller might be moved elsewhere, because people in Barra have some political influence... Time will tell...

 

As for the village that appears in the end of the picture "Central do Brasil", it's a nameless village in Brazilian notheastern region, the poorest in the country.

 

It's important to note that most slum dwellers in both Rio and São Paulo come from the Northeast, and surprisingly enough they live better in the slums than they did back home.

 

Um abração,

 

 

:7