My Trip To Rio - Report of a "First-Timer&...

[Mavica]

Well, it's been a week since I returned from my first trip to Rio, and, as promised, here are some of my thoughts. Because this is a wonderful world, few of us are going to view things exactly the same . . . or have exactly the same experiences, and my thoughts are likely to be different than the opinions of others. Nobody is right, nobody's wrong.

 

Why I went

 

Because I live in a part of the U.S. that’s cold in the Winter months, each February I travel to someplace warm for a little R&R. Mexico has been a favorite destination during this time of year, as have parts of Asia and North Africa. Friends of mine have traveled to Rio in past years, but I’d never been there, or to anywhere in South America. Information I’d gained from reading this message board wasn’t the reason I chose Rio this year, but it was a contributing factor. The deciding factor was that the idea of traveling to Rio has always interested me . . . the weather was hot , and there were lots of beaches . . . this was to be a restful trip. Oh, yes . . . the reports I’d read of the commercial sex saunas played a part. I don’t use the services of escorts/hustlers in the U.S., but I do, on occasion, avail myself when out of the country. However, it’s a sex-partner option I don’t concentrate on. This was not a “have as much sex as you can with as many hustlers you can find in one week” type of trip.

 

Trip-Planning

 

Elsewhere on this message board I’ve listed the resources I found helpful when it came to planning for my trip, and, hands-down . . . the best source of information is/was the trip-reports posted here by fellow travelers . . . and the advice of the “authority”, trilingual. Some good people have taken the time to share valuable information, and I found the information to be, generally, very accurate. I spent a lot of time reading through all of the prior posts on this board, and read through hundreds of pages of information that’s posted on the internet . . . and the pre-planning gave me a lot of comfort/confidence when it came time to make decisions on where to go, what to do, how to get there, etc. The answers to each of my questions was out there for me to find, I just had to look. I speak Spanish, and, even with my Spanish, I had some difficulty communicating with people outside the hotel. So, for people thinking about a trip to Rio . . . if you don’t speak Portuguese or Spanish, I’d reconsider. We arrived in Rio on February 7, and departed February 15th.

 

Termas - Saunas

 

Might as well as get to the “meat” of the report. I think that the term “Escort” is misused when applied to the vast majority of guys who work in the termas/saunas. I think the term “hustler” is more appropriate. Few guys seem attached to just one of the sauna’s; the majority appear to float among them all. Most of the hustlers have no other means of support (other than hustling), and float between the commercial sex saunas, street corners, outdoor cafe’s, beaches, discos and bars . . . looking for tricks. In a sauna, dressed in a towel . . . the hustler has one appearance, while on the street corner . . . or cafe, he may have the appearance of “rough trade.” My expectation is that someone holding himself out to be an Escort is a cut-above a street hustler, and I think most people will agree with me on that.

 

Overall, I was disappointed with the quality of guys I saw working the saunas. Yes, there were many attractive guys, and, yes, I recognize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But, many of the guys I saw working the saunas were generally less attractive than the average 18-24 year-olds I saw in Copacabana and Ipanema. Some of the guys were out of shape, some were older and more “worn” than others, etc. When a “first-timer” enters the sauna the arrival's telegraphed among the guys; it‘s something not easily missed because of the close quarters. Some of the guys were very aggressive, offensively so; and, some attempted to overcharge, and others didn’t perform as agreed to (I had a couple of “bottoms“ who wouldn‘t cooperate and, when in bed, didn‘t want to take it up the ass). A good number of guys can’t keep a hard-on . . . because they’re sitting around all day wacking -off, and many told me that they couldn’t afford Viagra. Other guys couldn’t get a hard-on without watching a straight-porn video in the video room first, and several rented a video room to have sex in because they said they couldn’t get it on with a guy without watching such a video. A turn-off for me was the cellular telephones worn on the towels of some guys, and at least one guy was openly selling cocaine. When topping, some guys said they had an orgasm (without that being agreed to) and asked for an extra fee, and some guys said they came twice . . . and wanted R$100 for the session (they, I think . . . faked the orgasm, pull-off their condom, and dropped into the toilet or trash can - and, no . . . I didn‘t inspect it!). first-timers are definitely targeted for gamesmanship. Yes, over the course of a week or more . . . the first-timer matures and becomes wiser, but the sessions that take place until that maturity develops can be disappointing. There’s no way for a first-timer to know who the game-players are, except through experience; and, the talent changes frequently, so there’s a fresh supply of gamesters. I found many of the guys to be very mechanical, almost distracted, while having sex; and found them to want as short a session as possible (only a couple approached an hour). I enjoy guys of all colors, but not all people do . . . and lots of the guys in the saunas were either black or very dark tanned, and, to my traveling companion, that was a complete turn-off. Now, if one does his homework before departure the color-thing shouldn’t be a surprise . . . but travelers should be aware of it. I did have a couple of good bottoms and excellent tops, but, overall, I was unimpressed.

 

With the exception of Spa 73 (and Point 202, which wasn’t open yet - but is in a former residence), the sauna’s are located in residences converted to the new use . . . and, during the Summer, they can be stifling hot due to a lack of air conditioning, effective fans, and air circulation. The common areas in some of the sauna’s are very small, making in very uncomfortable to sit, circulate, calmly meet/talk with the hustlers. One room in each of the sauna’s is supposed to be air conditioned, but the cool air can be felt only when there are very few people in the sauna’s. For the uninitiated, my first-time visit to a sauna (on a weekend evening) was unpleasant. I later learned that an afternoon . . . or, weekday visit, is less stressful. Persons who are claustrophobic, and/or who can’t take temperatures in the 90 - 100F range and high humidity. . . might want to stay away (Summer). The rooms you go upstairs to with your guy were, mostly, not air conditioned, and there were no sheets on the beds; the rooms were very hot and sex was on the sticky vinyl-covered mattresses. The saunas provided the guys with condoms, but none had lubricant . . . and on a couple of occasions , the condoms broke. I traveled with my own condoms and lubricant, but, on one occasion the guy wanted to blow me with a condom and while fucking him later it broke. On another occasion, one of the guys wanted to use the “house” condom to top me, and it broke when he put it on. I wouldn’t trust any of the sauna-provided condoms.

 

About sauna charges, I think the reception staff, bar staff and towel guys provided excellent service and I detected no attempts to overcharge me. I carefully guarded the identity of my locker number, and when I bought drinks I retrieved them from the bar myself . . . so none of the guys charged anything to my key (nor do I think anyone attempted to do that). Some of the guys accepted beverages, most didn’t . . . the sauna’s provide free water to the guys and that seemed just fine with those whom I invited to a drink. Drinks were inexpensive, anyway.

 

The sauna’s are designed for use by the locals, not for foreign tourists. So, while we might want cooler temperatures, sheets on the bed, hot water in the showers, more room to maneuver . . . the hustlers told me that they like things just the way they are, and, I think, so do the local customers. Yes, the sauna’s interest us because most of us don’t speak the language, and it’s almost effortless.

 

Safety and Security

 

I’ve posted my opinions on this topic elsewhere, but, to summarize it . . . I felt uncomfortable in the Central part of Copacabana, and, in another part of the city . . . didn’t take public transportation to Sta. Teresa (didn’t go because of the stalking of tourists). Crime against tourists has skyrocketed over 2002 levels if one is to believe hotel industry and government reports, and I wasn’t comfortable with everyone telling me to “dress down” (not that I “dress up”) and leave the camera at home, take just a few R$ with me when I’m out, take nothing to the beach out of fear of being ripped-off. Crime is a very real problem, and, I realize, the more time one passes in an area the more familiar you become . . .but that’s of little comfort to a first-timer. If it’s a “vacation,” who want’s to be burdened with all of the warnings. and looking over your shoulder?

 

Non-Sauna Sex and/or Street Cruising

 

There seems to be an active street-cruising scene, but, without the ability to communicate in Portuguese . . .it’s a game difficult to play. The non-commercial gay sauna scene is active, and appears good quality; and there looks to be good hunting at the gay discos :-). If I could speak Portuguese, I would have spent most of my extracurricular activities in the non-commercial setting.

 

Beaches

 

Ipanema was the place to be . . . the largest concentration of gays, day in and day out. Copacabana was a step down in class, and the quality of guys/people. Both beaches had good kiosks renting umbrellas/chairs and vending beverages. You can spend a day on the beach for less than US$5, very inexpensive for what you get. There was hustler action on both beaches, with the best quality at Ipanema. Copacabana seemed to have a sprinkling of 15-16 year-olds looking for some action, if that’s your cup of tea . . . but playing with under-aged guys is risky.

 

Lodging

 

We stayed at the Atlantico Copacabana Hotel, and, for the money . . . it’s probably about as good as any non-beachfront property. It was a good stop for a first-timer, but if I ever return to Rio I’d likely stay over in Ipanema because of the proximity to the beach and many good restaurants and sidewalk cafe‘s. The hotel was kept clean, the maids didn’t take anything, there were good breakfasts included in the price of the room, and the front desk staff was accommodating. Unless someone plans to have overnighters with a hustler or wants ocean-front . . . just about any hotel would suffice (provided that it meets the traveler’s basic needs). My impression is that room guests aren’t a big hassle, except at the upper-end properties (and, of course . . . depending upon the appearance of the extra “guest”).

 

Conclusion

 

I enjoy visiting new places, and the trip to Rio was restful, the beaches and scenery beautiful, the food excellent . . . and the “entertainment” interesting. Will I be going back anytime soon? I doubt it. Rio can be an expensive place to visit, as compared to other destinations I’m familiar with . . . and I have had more enjoyable sexual encounters elsewhere. For North Americans, I still think the best-bet is Mexico . . . and I plan to offer some comparisons in the near future. For all of you who took the time to answer questions before I left, and who commented while I was in Rio, and after my return . . . a big Thank You! I’ve probably left some things out, and I’m not about to suggest to anyone that they should or shouldn’t make a first-visit to Rio . . . we each have our own lives to live. My experiences are my experiences . . . take from them what you will, or hit the delete key on your computer!

[Guest Gringo]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "First-Ti...

 

You're right of course, there is no one place perfect for everyone. It seems Mexico meets your needs in a comfortable setting you are familiar with. Rio is quite different. It's a mystery and an adventure. Anything could happen at almost any time. That could be finding the romance of your life or a sudden revolution marching down the street outside your hotel room. It's a primal call as old as the Amazon and as unexpected as a razor blade. For some, it’s a whirlwind of that kind of electricity you feel on the streets in NYC. Somewhere in the distance there is the beating of drums sending messages of promise and passion to those who have come to the mother caress of the outstretched arms of Christo Redentor. Within the steaming jungles of Tijuca and the concrete of Centro you are invited to live life as you have never done before, to escape the customs and traditions of your world and breath in the first sun of a tropical dream. For years people would tell me they felt the earth move. I had no idea what the hell they were talking about...and then it happened to me. The clock missed a beat and in that nanosecond, my world stood still in the arms of a carioca. That was 20 years ago, and for that magic, Brasil is a place I must return to. It’s not the scenery, natural or man made. It's the passion. Go where you find passion and be happy.

[catnip]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "Firs...

 

Gringo, what a beautiful and poetic post. You are some guy!!!

[trilingual]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "Firs...

 

Mexico is a wonderful place, too. From a cultural, artistic and historic standpoint, it's unsurpassed. The food, of course, is fabulous. And it's certainly closer than Brazil.

 

As I've mentioned before, I grew up in Mexico. Oddly enough, in spite of that I don't find myself strongly attracted to Mexican men, by and large. (Of course, there are exceptions to all such generalities!) Comparatively speaking, I find Mexican men a lot less sensual and more uptight than Brazilian men. Among other things, Brazilians have a playful attitude towards sex that appeals enormously to me, and which I find almost entirely absent in Mexico, not to mention in the U.S. and Northern Europe where everything about sex seems to have to be so SERIOUS! :-(

 

Gringo expresses my own reactions to Brazil much more lyrically than I ever could. There's something truly magical about the place. Speaking the language helps to experience that magic, but it isn't essential. I know numerous people who don't speak the language who've fallen deeply under Brazil's spell, and not just because of the saunas!

 

For myself, I can only say that I've never known people so warm and giving as the Brazilians. The country is gorgeous, with a fascinating history. Some of its old colonial cities are among the most exquisitely beautiful places I've ever experienced. Musically, Brazil is irresistible; there can't be another people on earth who are so universally musical and creative. The people themselves, in all their shades and colors and combinations, can be stunningly beautiful (and millions of them are!). Most importantly, Brazilians, in spite of all the adversities they face, somehow manage to find what's good and important in life, and enjoy life in full measure. They hold nothing back. And it's contagious. There are only a couple of times in my life that I can say that I've experienced pure, sheer, unfiltered, unadulterated joy. It's an overwhelming emotion I don't think most of us "northern" types have often experienced. In fact, I'd be willing to guess most of us have never experienced it! I've only experienced this in Brazil, in the company of Brazilians. Maybe it's what Gringo refers to when he says the earth moved for him. For me, it was more as if the earth had suddenly stopped. Those moments of pure joy were so indescribably perfect I never wanted them to end. Any place that can make me feel like that is someplace I want to be, as much as I can!

 

I'm sure Brazil doesn't have a monopoly on joy and that it can be experienced in many places. But for me, it happened in Brazil, and that's what makes it such an important part of my life. I'm sorry, in a way, that Mavica didn't "feel the magic" in Brazil, but I hope there's a place where he does feel it, because it's one of the things that makes life worth living! But I'm glad Mavica was willing to give Brazil a try!

[ohgwm226]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "...

 

After reading Mavica's summation of his experiences and impressions in Rio, and agreeing with him, that we are, thank God, all different, who have different experiences and prespectives I decided to write about my experiences and feelings about Rio, Brazil, and the beautiful Brazilian people.

 

I have been 3 times to Rio so far. I heard about this message board from an American I met incidentally in Estacao during my first trip to Rio. I do not speak neither Spanish nor Portuguese. Nevertheless, I did not have any problem communicating, though only very few in Rio speak English. I am certain my experiences, especially with men in Rio, would have been much richer, and satisfying if I spoke Portuguese which I am trying to learn now.

 

Lodging: In all my 3 trips I stayed at Premier Copacabana Hotel, which is directly next to Estacao (A pleasant but not a planned co-incident), it is a very nice comfortable hotel with high speed connection to the Internet in each room (Though it does not work all the time). I did not try to bring any one to my room, hence I can not tell what their policy regarding guests.

 

The saunas: I agree with Mavica that heat can be a problem especially in Roger's, however this problem was minor in Estacao, except on Saturdays because of the large crowd. I also agree with his characterization of the "Boys" as hustlers rather than "Escorts", however my agreement with him regarding them almost ends there. They may be not much above the average 18 to 24 year old Brazilian man on the streets of Rio, but even when this accepted, it is (At least in my eyes) important to point out that the average Brazilian man is by far more attractive and sexier than 90% of any man on the streets of any American city. In general, to my eyes, most of the "Boys" in the saunas were stunningly beautiful and sexy looking. Admittingly, I favor dark skinned men. The color of the skin of most Brazilian men is the most beautiful color of any people I met. If you favor white blond Scandinavian type guys, do not go to Rio. If you like colored men, Rio is heaven.

It is true, that some of the boys had difficulty keeping a hard on without watching a straight porno video, and most are never a good botom, even when they agree to bottom, but f you take in consideration that most of the "Boys" in the saunas are straight and not gay, and that their being with you is for them a pure commercial transaction, many can be amazingly affectionat and sensual. I was disappointed few times, but by far my experiences were very satisfying and pleasnat.Avoid the pushy guys, and you are more likely to have a pleasnat time.

Few boys tried to overcharge me, but all backed up when I made it clear that I am paying only the standard fee, more often than not I subesquently gave even those who tried to overcharge me a tip of 10 or 20 Reals, and most were very happy.On rare occasions I gave tips up to 50 Reals to those I was very pleased with.

 

I practically invariably bought drinks or food for every "boy" I had sex with. All accepted, and to my pleasant surprise almost all shared the food and drinks they got from me with other boys, many asked me to buy drinks and food for their friends. I almost always did making them happy for just few Dollars. As you know every thing is very cheap by American standards in Rio. To me, it was impressive that the "boys" always wanted to share their food and drinks with others, giving me the impression that they thought of other boys as friends rather than competitors. This made them in my eyes even more attractive, and reminded me, that they are mainly human, and not pieces of meat t be used for my pleasure.If you treat the boys with respect, you are more likely to have happy experiences.

Though some of the boys were more agressive and pushy trying to get your "business", I never had a problem with any one after I made it clear that I am not interested when I wasn't. They always left me alone there-after. I was by far more hasseled by guys in Copacabana beach area who were trying to shine my shoes than by the boys in the saunas.

 

Safety: Maybe because I went to Rio with a lot of comprehension after reading about the high rate of crime and violence in Rio, I felt very safe there. I dressed as uasual while in Rio (Casual) and did not intentionally dress down. I almost always had an expensive camera with me (I love taking pictures on the streets). Nevertheless I used my common sense avoiding dark abandoned streets and staying away from what I thought could be an area of trouble.I had only minimal amount of money with me, and only one credit card. I never felt threatened, and never had a bad safety experience. I did not feel that Rio was more dangerous than New York City for example.

 

In summary I fell in love with Rio, Brazil and the Brazilian people. In my eyes, they are probably the most beautiful people in the world. In addition to being very sensual, warm, and friendly. Almost all CD's in the CD changer in my car are now CD's of Brazilian music. Brazil is a fascinating country with very charming people. Rio is a stunningly beautiful city. It became my msot favorite city in the world,(I travelled extensively mainly in Europe and USA, but also to Asia) and I'll be back often to Rio. I already arranged for my next trip for this coming May.

[Mike_M]

I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if I went into a situation thinking the guys second-rate and ethnicly other than desired that I would find them mechanical and not interested in staying around for a drink or a bite (and in a country where people are starving!). Attitude always communicates - especially a lot of it.

[alankay]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "...

 

I fully agree with the post, especially in regards to the beauty of Brazilian men. I have traveled extensively and thought Italy was numero uno in gorgeous men but not any more. I will never forget walking down a busy commercial street in Copacabana this January to see a number of shirtless guys walk past with breathtakingly beautiful bodies. (Brazilians are extremely proud of their bodies and love to show them off). The beach scene in Rio was also a greater feast for my gay eyes than Miami or Ibiza. The mix of cultures in Brazil has produced a remarkably beautiful people. I too found the sauna boys quite courteous to one another (for the most part) and shared freely the sandwiches and drinks they received. This surprised and endeared them even more to me. One of the strongest attractions for me was the energy and vitality of the people. I found Rio to be an energizing and invigorating place to be. Life is lived to the fullest in Rio and to be there is to experience a greater slice of life. I would not recommend Rio as a place to go to relax. A resort would be a better choice for this.

[Luv2play]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "First-Ti...

 

I couldn't have expressed it better than you did.

[trilingual]

Just a few observations, after re-reading Mavica's summary:

 

1. At Club 117 and in the suites at Estação, there are sheets on the beds. In the other saunas, there are just vinyl-covered mattresses/gym mats. Most people spread out their towels over those, rather than lying directly on the vinyl. (By the way, where there aren't any sheets there's usually a spray bottle of industrial-strength alcohol which the guys will use to spray down and disinfect the vinyl before getting down to business.)

 

2. There's air-conditioning in the suites at Club 117 and Estação. In the other rooms, there are usually pretty powerful fans to help keep you cool. Well, cooler! The bar/disco at 117 is air-conditioned, as is the show-room at Estação. I don't remember for sure, but I think the TV rooms at 117 are also air-conditioned. Hopefully Point 202 will be well air-conditioned and ventilated.

 

3. "Cold"-water showers are common in Rio and elsewhere in Brazil. Keep in mind that you're in the tropics and the "cold" water is never remotely frigid. It's more in the nature of tepid, like the water in a swimming pool. After the heat of the saunas, or just the usual summer temperatures, a cool shower is refreshing. At least, I find it refreshing! Almost all of the saunas have at least one shower head with hot water (frequently one of the alarming-looking electrical shower heads; if they make you nervous just don't touch the shower head). Some places have central hot water; be careful in those as the water can be REALLY hot!

[Mavica]

Well, the responses from the regular posters here weren’t unexpected . . . the “chamber of commerce” crowd is fully dressed in their Sunday finest! I had no illusion (or intent) of changing the minds of hard-core Rio fans . . . just to report on my impressions. Sorry if the report messed your hair! I actually wrote my posts for the majority of viewers to this message board . . . those who read but don’t comment . . . and who might be entertaining the thought of a trip to Rio in the future. They’ll not get a balanced report from the regulars, so the view of a newbie might prove helpful as they consider their trips.

 

Some of you might want to change your professions, and start writing some of those fictional love story’s! Brazil, Oh My Brazil! lol! I would expect people who’ve been traveling to Brazil for years to love the place . . . why else would you be going there? Completely understandable, and it’s great when we feel in such a way about someplace/somebody. But, just because a first-time visitor to Rio doesn’t share a school-girl-like fascination with the place doesn’t diminish that first-time experience. I think some of you need to get out and see a bit of the world . . . starting with your own country.

 

About comparing Brazilian men in general with men in Mexico, I can’t comment too much on that . . . because my experiences in Brazil are so limited. However, I think the description trilingual gives of Mexican men is that of someone who’s been away from Mexico for a generation, at least. Sometime in the future, I might discuss the differences between hustlers in Mexico and those I saw in Rio, but that's probably better done by e-mail to those express an interest. With the strong bias against anyplace but Brazil, they ought to change the name of this message board.

 

I don’t think I’ve visited a country where I didn’t think a lot of men were handsome . . . and, unlike some here . . . I prefer to be inclusive, and not exclusive. But, hey . . . differences in preference we have is one of the things that makes the world interesting . . .right? From the tone of some responses to this thread, and in other threads I’ve read and posted, I get the clear impression that few of the regular posters have sex with persons other than hustlers, which, I think, distorts one’s view of the gay world. Then again, I might be wrong about that. Hey, it’s a big world out there . . . and the population consists of more than just trade.

 

I’ve posted a report(s) about the impressions of a first-time visitor to Rio . . . so discussions about the rest of Brazil are really irrelevant to my experiences. I have no doubt that Brazil is country that offers some terrific travel experiences, and that Brazilians are nice people . . . yes, even an attractive people. But, that country-wide stuff really has little or nothing to do with someone traveling only to Rio. Some of you may not understand this, but . . . people do have a good time in places other than Brazil . . . and that doesn‘t make them misguided!

 

I’m sorry that trilingual didn’t believe what I posted about the conditions of the sauna’s when I visited them, but he wasn’t along side me when I was there. Again, I chalk this up his "setting the record straight" to the obsession around here to promote a “chamber of commerce” line when it comes to the hustlers in Rio. So, since he didn’t believe me, here’s what I have to say in response to his protestations:

 

“1. At Club 117 and in the suites at Estação, there are sheets on the beds. In the other saunas, there are just vinyl-covered mattresses/gym mats. Most people spread out their towels over those, rather than lying directly on the vinyl. (By the way, where there aren't any sheets there's usually a spray bottle of industrial-strength alcohol which the guys will use to spray down and disinfect the vinyl before getting down to business.)”

 

Response: If you’re going to pump the company line . . . get it correct. Suites at Club 117 and Estação upon which the beds had sheets were in the small minority . . . most did not. Yes, I placed my towel on top of the bed.. The beds at Spa 73 all had sheets, contrary to your belief.. Not one guy wiped-down the vinyl mattress after we entered a room, but the boy who cleans the rooms after they’re used could have done that without a user’s knowledge. Rogers had no sheets.

 

“2. There's air-conditioning in the suites at Club 117 and Estação. In the other rooms, there are usually pretty powerful fans to help keep you cool. Well, cooler! The bar/disco at 117 is air-conditioned, as is the show-room at Estação. I don't remember for sure, but I think the TV rooms at 117 are also air-conditioned. Hopefully Point 202 will be well air-conditioned and ventilated.”

 

Response: Again, get your story right (have you been to Rio sauna's lately?). No, the rooms at Club 117 and Estação were, in the majority, not air conditioned. Only on the last afternoon when I visited Estação did I have an air conditioned room. And, no, the rooms aren’t uniformly equipped with working fans. On several occasions, the guys fiddled with the fans to get them to work . . . and they didn’t. I think I had an air conditioned room at Club 117, and the rooms at Spa 73 each had individual air conditioners that worked (but, the rooms are very hot when you enter because the air is turned-off, they never cooled very well). Roger’s (a/k/a "The Shit Hole") had no air conditioning.

 

“3. "Cold"-water showers are common in Rio and elsewhere in Brazil. Keep in mind that you're in the tropics and the "cold" water is never remotely frigid. It's more in the nature of tepid, like the water in a swimming pool. After the heat of the saunas, or just the usual summer temperatures, a cool shower is refreshing. At least, I find it refreshing! Almost all of the saunas have at least one shower head with hot water (frequently one of the alarming-looking electrical shower heads; if they make you nervous just don't touch the shower head). Some places have central hot water; be careful in those as the water can be REALLY hot!”

 

Response: You don’t have to be condescending and remind me where I had traveled to. You’re not the only one whose been outside the U.S. (many of us have gone beyond Brazil, believe it or not!). I mentioned the water temperature in the rooms . . . and it was more an issue with the hustlers than with me. There was hot water in the communal showers most of the time, however, and that was just fine. And, not all rooms in the saunas are equipped with showers/toilets . . . especially Estação. I made mention of the shower issue because I think it will be of interest for first-timers. Sorry, but we’re not all experts.

 

For the passers-by who read these message boards, I think it’s important for you to realize that most of what you read here are sales-pitches posted by hard-core Brazil-lovers uninterested in presenting an objective view of the hustler scene in Rio. What a 20 year, 10 year, 3 year veteran experiences will be different than what the first-timer encounters. Do I think it’s worth traveling to Rio just for the hustlers . . . no, I don’t. Do I think Rio is an interesting place to visit on vacation, during which one can play around a bit . . . yes, I do. However, I think that, for the average gay traveler, once is enough.

[Mike_M]

Talk about having an agenda! You came here and read what we were all raving about, went to see what it was all about and respectfully decided to disagree - fine, thanks for sharing and I'm sure others will find your input useful in coming to their own conclusions. But why continue coming back 3 or 4 times repeating the same things, knowing most of us had different experiences, based in most cases on much more time in Brasil and more variety of encounters with the people and culture, knowing most of us have come to totally different conclusions. I have the feeling you're trying to brow-beat people into accepting your view as the final answer. It ain't going to happen. Accept it and move on.

[Mavica]

Hall monitors, and Sunday Ass Holes

 

Mike_M, once again . . . you demonstrate the effects of a poor education. You can’t follow a conversation.

 

This thread is as it’s titled: “My Trip to Rio - Report of a First Timer.” Before I left for my trip I made the commitment to post while in Rio, and another report of my impressions . . . after I returned. What is it about the English-language you don’t understand? Are you that insecure that you’re threatened by one lone report that presents a different view than the rest?

 

Re-read this particular thread, and you’ll notice comments from several people that are virtually verbatim copies of what they’ve previously posted in response to my reports from Rio. No, they didn’t take the time to offer anything new or original, or to respond to anything I posted specifically . . . they just pumped the chamber of commerce line. But, hey . . . who says there are rules for what people have to post, and when. I didn’t take them to task for continuing their campaign for a place they obviously love, did I? No, I didn’t. What I did was to present my response to some of the comments offered in response to my report, yes . . . comments about my posting . . . not about other threads, not about other discussions. Are you following me? Need me to go more slowly? Maybe I missed it . . . but when did Hooboy or the moderators assign you the task of message board monitor? Who gave you the Sunday Ass Hole crown?

 

trilingual posted remarks that clearly indicated he didn’t believe what I posted about the physical conditions of the saunas, and . . . I did what I think anybody would do in that situation, I offered a correction to his erroneous information as it involved my trip. trilingual has no knowledge of the conditions I saw . . . he wasn’t there with me. Yes, my trip . . . not his trip, not your trip, not anybody else’s. If you don’t have the balls to stand up for yourself then I feel sorry for you.

 

By the way, I don’t remember reading the report of your trip to Rio . . . care to provide a link so I can have a look. Since you’re in the attack mode around here lately, I’d like to have a look at what you had to say about your trip and how your experiences differed from mine.

[Guest luv2rideURbig1]

Mavica -- I do not post on here often but read the threads from time to time.

 

I have not been to Brazil. However, any queen with a remote control and a few Kristen Bjorn videos knows what Brazilian men look like and what to expect before booking that hotel room. Frankly I have been rather amused when I've read people *surpirsed* at the number of dark skin men in a sauna in Rio. "duh"

 

I do not have sex exclusively with either escorts or hustlers, but have done so enough to be acquainted with the differences of either, as well as the nuances in negotiation that are similar whether it be on 42nd St. in Manhattan or a sauna in Brazil.

 

While your first posting *hinted* at being incendiary, the one above is obviously so -- why dangle the Mexican carrot and not make your case before the Chamber of Commerce then? That tactic is transparent and rather tired to say the least.

[Guest luv2rideURbig1]

RE: Hall monitors, and Sunday Ass Holes

 

Am I the only one here having deja-vu?

[Guest Gringo]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "...

 

Thank you for sharing your impressions as a first time visitor to Rio. Your insight is welcome and appreciated. Your response to the other posts in this thread seems somewhat curt and bitter. While accepting of your impressions, you seem un-accepting of those with different impressions. Why is that?

 

“responses from the regular posters here weren’t unexpected.” Was that the intention of your posts? Were you on some mission to discourage the enthusiasm of posters here who are Brasilian advocates? To characterize them as a “chamber of commerce” posting “sales-pitches posted by hard-core Brazil-lovers uninterested in presenting an objective view” is petty and borders on paranoia. No one has attempted to “diminish” your impressions, why do you feel that your experience has not been accepted or is being some how discounted? That you did not find the magic some of us have experience in Rio is fine. But your experience does not diminish the positive impressions of others in this forum. To suggest that our experiences are “school-girl-like fascination with the place” is unfair.

 

How you “get the clear impression that few of the regular posters have sex with persons other than hustlers, which, I think, distorts one’s view of the gay world” is presumptuous and, at least to me, offensive. That comment, along with “I think some of you need to get out and see a bit of the world,” is a leap beyond your knowledge and smacks of a superior attitude which DOES, in my mind, diminish your comments. With that same condescending tone, you say, “Some of you may not understand this, but . . . people do have a good time in places other than Brazil . . . and that doesn‘t make them misguided!”

 

I don’t think anyone here has called you “misguided,” yet you are clearly defensive. Your comments and impressions are welcome. But your condescending tone and superior attitude is not. If you feel there is some conspiracy going on here, I think you are mistaken. I encourage you to promote the Mexican Chamber of Commerce or any other South of the USA country as that is the scope of this forum. Please don’t present yourself as a victim of a biased sales pitch. Your impressions are as valid as the next---just different.

[Mavica]

through the looking glass

 

Well . . . we certainly do look at things from our own perspective, no getting around that. No, no conspiracy . . . just a lack of objectivity, I think. Nothing wrong with people being strong advocates for something . . . we all have things we feel strongly about and we usually like to tell others about it. Although, I think there’s been more than one expression of disbelief that I wasn’t “captured” by Rio on my first visit, I don’t think the comments offered were intended to be all that friendly. Sorry, but that’s how I interpret them; could be that I’ve read something into some of the remarks that wasn’t intended. Yea, I was a little curt in a couple of my remarks . . . I usually get a little hot under the collar when someone suggests I haven’t been honest, and when another poster repeatedly takes cheap shots just for fun. But, those seem to be common occurrences on message boards. About my knowledge of other posters here . . . that’s come from extensive remarks of others over a long period of time, from in-person conversation, and from many e-mail communications. Do we know everything about everyone else, no . . . but I think we can usually put together a fairly accurate picture based upon what people say and do. You yourself have posted some smart-ass remarks in response to earlier comments of mine, and, as with your remarks, I judge others by the content of their posts. About the chamber of commerce references, I think they’re absolutely on-point . . . the knee-jerk reactions exhibited when someone comments unfavorably about something in Rio or the hustler scene are all over this message board . . . and are by now predictable. As for your Mexico comment, what is it about someone mentioning or preferring another destination that seems to upset you so? I think I’ve mentioned Mexico a couple of times since I’ve posted on this message board, and never to specifically promote it. My extensive writings on gay activities in Mexico are posted to another well-known website, I’ve made no attempts to promote the country, website, or writings here. At one time, you could have accused me of being biased towards Thailand, because of my extensive writings for Spartacus. But, as I explained above . . . rather than exclude . . . I prefer to include; there are many places in the world where I can enjoy myself. You seem to expect a unanimous acceptance of the romantic descriptions you repeatedly post about Rio, and I don‘t think you‘re being realistic . . . people are individuals with their own peculiar likes/dislikes . . . it doesn’t mean I’m against Rio . . . I had a good time, overall. Yea, it’s a very picturesque destination . . . probably very romantic . . . but, not everyone wets their sheets at night dreaming about it . . . and that’s okay, too. I hardly see myself as a victim of anything. I honestly expressed my sentiments prior to the trip, and have honored my commitment to share my impressions/experiences. Hopefully, someone reading through the many excellent posts on this message board will find something that makes their trip just a little bit better, which is what happened to me. Life’s strange . . . and, who knows . . . we might find ourselves sitting together one day . . . in Roger’s of all places! Enjoy! Thanks for your comments.

[Fit In LA]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Mavica,

Thank you for your excellent post. Your honesty and your impressions

seem to come from the heart and the head.

Others cetainly have the right to disagree with you; but I'm sorry some felt they had to attack your motives and your integrity.

Best to just ignore those people.

 

I'm really interested in your observations about Mexico, especially the Pacific coast deestination of Puerto Vallarta, Ixtapa, and

also further south - the beautiful and virgin Bahias de Huatulco

areas. ( at least that area was "virgin" 5 years ago whenI visited.

 

I also agree that I find Mexican men no different that Hispanic men elsewhere. By showing them respect, being friendly, and for someone like me who speaks some Spanish trying to speak their language

all leads to a great experience with these guys.

 

Please post about Mexico. I'm looking forward to your travelogues.

If you would like to email me it's jmcdonald@sport.rr.com

 

Hasta luego.......

[ohgwm226]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Since I was one of the responders to Mavica, I can imagine myself being included in his perception of the so-called "hard core fans and promoters of Rio" and "Chamber of Commerce crowd". And though I very rarely post on this board, I would like to offer the following clarification points:

First, I consider myself newbie to Rio, and not expert. My 3 trips to Rio took place in the last 12 months. I certainly, however would have not returned to Rio if I did not like/love it.

Second, I posted summary of my experiences in Rio, not to challenge the truthfulness of what Mavice posted, nor to promote Rio and claim it is the only fascinating city in the world, but to offer another prespective, also from a relatively new comer's point of view. I do not question the honesty of his description of his interactions with the "boys" in the saunas, but wanted to state that differnet people may have different experiences with the very same people and illicit different responses. I wanted the new comers and first visitors (Like I was only few months ago) not to assume that what he eperienced was the only possible thing to expect. All what I wrote in my previous posting was the truth as I experienced it. I think Mavica would agree that different people may have differen experiences, and that offering an insight in one's perception does not by itself constiute a challenge to the truthfulness of the others.

Third, I think his advice: " I think some of you need to get out and see a bit of the world . . . starting with your own country." is a valid one, that I have followed long before I discovered this board, I have travelled extensively in USA, and Europe, and lived for 5 years in Germany. I share Mavica's love of Bangkok, and admit that though the Thai men are not as attractive as the Brazilian to my eyes, they can be very passionate in bed, and very gentle as people. I love the Thai people too. My love is not limited to Rio. So my own offered perception of Rio was not the percetion of hard core fan, or memebr of the Chamber of Commerce crowd", nor the one of the little unexperienced girl who fell in love with the first new city she encountered. I just, like Mavica tried to offer the prepective of another newbie to Rio, but rather an experienced world traveller..

[Guest Tomcal_]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Hi Guys, I am sure the regulars here figured I would respond to this as I guess, I would be viewed as one of the "Chamber of Commerce for Brazil" guys! First, I have to say that overall I enjoyed Mavica's posts, because while his reactions/experiences were different then mine, I think different perspectives are always needed to give a fair idea to those reading this. Before I comment let me set the record straight(lol), He stated that probably alot of the guys who posted here about Rio, only had sex with hustlers, so that may(in my words) cloud their judgement! I travel almost weekly for the company I work for, I go to London, Paris, Shanghai, Miami, and NYC, frequently, so I am not a sheltered, non dating old queen that he may/seem to assume we are. I am 40, 6'4", 215, the only time I do/have paid for sex was and is Rio! I am currently dating several guys and have or am currently dating a well known porn star. Does that make me special or have better tastes....NO! But at least I think it gives a perspective in contrast to your(Mavica's) posts as to why we(I) go crazy promoting Rio, I don't know what you are used to but previous comments about the quality of the guys in the saunas that they in whole were not that attractive, really surprised me, but maybe things have changed drastically between Oct when I was last there and now. Or more probably Mavica's taste in Men is different then Tri's and mine for example. Let's not hammer him about that, we all have very different likes and dislikes. My best friend, who went with me the first time I went to Rio, is Blond, muscled, VGL, and huge dick, he could have almost anyone he wanted(he picked them up from the beach in Farme in Ipenema and at the suanas) and he went with guys who I would have shared Mavica's distaste for, but he thought they were hot! On this point I think we can all agree to disagree. However if you want examples of the guys in the sauans, go to Honcho magazine last summer's issues they have three guys pictured, Lucas from Rogers, Anderson from 117 and another whose name i forgot from Estacio. Those of you who haven't vbeen to Rio go there and make up your own mind..I would say write me and I will send you pics, but I can't spend hours downloadind and sending pics to every one who reads this! LOL but I have pics of 20 diffferent boys from the suanas and ...well just thinking about them brings a smile to my face!!

 

Point 2, Mavica, you basically said Tri was lying about the rooms at the suanas specifically to quote you:

"If you’re going to pump the company line . . . get it correct. Suites at Club 117 and Estação upon which the beds had sheets were in the small minority . ." This is where I thought you were getting a little testy and sounding little bitter. I know for a fact, that EVERY ROOM at 117 has Round beds with fitted sheets! You are wrong! I have been in all of them(lol), the only room that doesn't is the small Massage room off the locker area, where last year they added two new rooms, both with round beds and fitted sheets. That is the one reason I like 117 is because of the "regular"type beds and sheets! Mavica, I think maybe this is where you were getting a little heated and when you state something, make sure you have your facts straight, especially when you are coming at someone to refute a statement they have made, as this is where you will lose your credibility. If you are going to attack someone back, make sure you have the facts. I have been to Rio 4 times in the last year and NEVER was I in a room at 117 that did not have sheets! I can't comment about the Air conditioning as I have always gone in Oct(twice)April and Aug, and the weather is very pleasent and not that humid, but as far as most of the fans not working, that never happened to me. At Roger's the boys always had me adjust the fans as they are high on the wall and since i am tall i could do it much easier then they could and I know for a fact they all worked.

I am sorry that you had to defend your original posts, I do believe that is honestly your impressions, when others post in reply they should post theirs in response without everyone saying the other is lying. Sometimes honest mistakes are made when reporting(hopefully this was the case with your post about the beds at 117, and not a case of exagerating to make your point)

I sent Mavica a email a week ago telling him that I enjoyed his posts and I think they are worthwhile because many guys may have the same standards/tastes/expections as he does. What I hope is that whatever anyone posts on here it's Honest. Mine have been. Granted the ones from last August when LA Showbiz and I traded quips goodnaturedly, where meant to be funny and entertaining as well as informative.

Last point, and this shows how we can all have differnt tastes. I have been to Cabo San Lucas, Puerto Vallarta, Cancun, ETc. each more then once(our company does meetings there) I dont' care for them at all as far as gay life, dating etc. Beautiful resorts, I dont' find the guys nearly as attractive as Brazilians...and I am a latin guy lover!

Was taken to Puerto Vallarta a year ago by a BF for a birthday present and met up with 10 other guys all from Calif. and all were impressed with the resort, and disappointed with the gay life/guys. So, does that mean that Mavica is wrong and I am right...not at all, just different tastes and maybe expectations. I would love to have a drink one night with Mavica and laugh and talk about all the boys! That's what this board is about, sharing information, meeting new guys, making friends! Sorry for the lengthy post, promise not to write a post this long again until April when I am in Rio!! Tom

[Guest Jake]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Just needed to be on record as another of the "Chamber of Commerce" that I have traveled regularly to europe and the far east as well as New York, California, Las Vegas, Canada, etc., etc. and have a blonde, handsome, slim, HUNG (and married) boyfriend at home. I first traveled to Brazil in the late 80's (along with other south american countries) and fell in love with the country and the people (without any knowledge of the saunas or the sex scene which are a big bonus). And, by the way, I fortunately enjoy the full range of colors and have had several disappointments in my multi-dozens of sauna encounters. My batting average is considerably better in Brazil - with better looking people on balance - than any other country I've ever visited.

 

I'm heading back Thursday for Carnival (second trip this year) and expect to sign a sales contract on a home there.

 

To each his own.

 

P.S. I'm not a Roger's fan either, but if you want to assure sheets and air conditioning at Estacao ask for a "suite" (say "sweetch") which costs just a few dollars more. As for 117, TomCal must've been there the same day and run them out of clean sheets. I've never had a no-sheet experience there either.

[trilingual]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Thanks, Jake and Tomcal, for confirming that my memory about the equipment and facilities at the Rio saunas isn't completely shot! I've been to Roger's, 117 and Estação many times over the course of many visits, so I think I know the places pretty well.

 

I didn't mean to imply in response to Mavica's post that he was lying about the facilities, and I'm sorry if he took things that way. However, his statements were at variance with my experience and I didn't think it was fair to people who've never been to these saunas to create a misimpression. If there's a room at 117 that doesn't have sheets and air-conditioning, I haven't seen it (but I can't say that I've been in ALL of them, like Tomcal!). The regular "cabines" at Estação aren't air-conditioned and don't have sheets, but the new suites do. None of the rooms at Roger's has sheets, but they do have fans.

 

Perhaps I've been a bit "chamber of commerce"'-ish about Brazil, but it's only because I like it so much and because virtually everyone I know who's been there has loved it, too. (Emphasis on the "virtually," because I know the occasional visitor, like Mavica, who turns out to be immune to Brazil's charms.) However, like other contributors to this board, I have also traveled extensively beyond Brazil, so I do have some bases for comparison. If you read through the various boards and posts, you'll see I've also been enthusiastic about Argentina and Spain. I've been to other countries as well, many of which I enjoy very much (like Germany and the Netherlands) but which aren't my favorites for sexual encounters. There's also hardly a city in the U.S. or Canada I haven't visited over the years, and I've lived in many places in North America. I had been to most of these places before visiting Brazil, so it wasn't my first foreign experience, by a long shot. It just happened to be the place that something "clicked." I still remember walking out of my hotel in downtown São Paulo the first day I ever spent in Brazil, looking at the crowds and the traffic and taking a deep breath. I can't say what it was, exactly, but I just new in that instant that I had found my "place." Twenty years later, I still feel that way, although it hasn't interfered with my enjoyment of other places I've visited since then.

 

I haven't been "on the prowl" in Mexico for about 12 years, but I don't think things will be utterly different now than when I was last there and cruising. I've spent a lot of time in Argentina in the past few years (more than I've spent in Mexico) and don't find things all that different there than in Mexico, except for the fact that I'm attracted to more Argentine men than Mexican men. There are noticeable differences in the attitudes of Hispanic men towards sex compared to Brazilians. Machismo seems to get in the way more, and there isn't the same relaxed feeling about everything sexual that exists in Brazil. It's a broad-based cultural thing. Please don't misunderstand, I've had enjoyable sexual experiences both in Mexico and Argentina, but there really is a difference in the way guys approach things and feel about themselves and what they're doing. However, I know people who've been to all of these countries and, overall, they prefer Argentina or Mexico to Brazil. Chacun à son goût! I'm not going to go on about the relative attractiveness of Brazilian men. As Mavica aptly reminds us, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we all have different tastes. Obviously, Brazilian men, including the ones at the saunas, ring my chimes and those of many other contributors to this thread, but I certainly don't think every man on the planet has to feel the same way!

 

Anyway, one thing to remember is that, except for the native Brazilians who post here, all of us were first-time visitors to Brazil once. Clearly, us "chamber of commerce" types must have had different experiences than Mavica, or we wouldn't have become so enthusiastic and ended up turning into virtual "commuters." So, for other readers who haven't been to Brazil and are considering their first trip, I just suggest reading all of the different impressions on this board (including Mavica's) and go with an open mind. Based on experience, the odds are very high that you'll become a Brazil Nut, too. But if you don't, that's OK, too. Keep traveling. Someplace else may turn out to be your Bali H'ai!

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: My Trip To Rio - Report of a "First-Ti...

 

DAMN, Gringo! You write oh so well! Your prose indeed captured the essence as well as the beat of the cariocas!

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Mavica, I wrote a thread sometime ago encouraging ALL visitors to Brazil to write about their experiences. Many of the travelers complied, even you. ALL of us have had varying cultural and sexual experiences while in Rio. Your trip to the favelas and the experience were different from mine; did I constantly write to refute what you encountered? My limited experiences with the boys and the sauna scene were varied; again, did I write and disagree with your experiences? (When I went to Roger's, the boys sprayed the alcohol and put down towels; when I went to Estacao-- I had a suite; the bed had a sheet.)

 

You wrote about your first visit and your perceptions: others have done the same thing. Would it be nice to go on now-- rereading what you have written and reading what others write. If their experiences are different from yours-- so be it!

 

I have appreciated what you have presented prior to your visit as well as after; I commend you for your details, but it would be wonderful to move one and to take what is here for what you deem it's worth!

[Driver]

RE: through the looking glass

 

When Mavica posted his first post I have to say I did enjoy it but thought to myself he's going to cop it now with the replies. To my surprise all the replies were civilised and appreciated his different viewpoint.

 

I have to say I agree with his dislike of Rogers, his not wanting to travel to Spa73 again and his love of Marius. If the saunas were busy I could imagine a suite being rented without it being prepared to the same standard we have experienced but I suspect I would have insisted on sheets myself. (Mind you if they then said it would be another 40 minutes because all the washing machines were at full stretch i'm not sure I would have waited. I'm not a lover of sex on vinyl).

 

We all know there are hustlers at these saunas, we wise up to them and then avoid them, looking for the gems instead. The gems are worth finding. Until Mavica mentioned it, it hadn't really dawned on me that most of the guys are basically non white. I see very few latino types in England and was having a pig's ball with some really horny darker skinned guys. Even Nick who in the USA would be considered black was a good shag for me and I have never slept with a black person before, so I was destroying all sorts of barriers in my mind and gladly so. If colour is important to you (and I thought it was to me until I got there) then you need to carefully consider what part of Brasil to go to. There are North European looking guys there but they are in the minority.

 

Now the nitty gritty, One of Mavica's last posts in my opinion went over the line, it was slightly offensive (unintentionally) in one or two places and I feel the rebuttals were not to be unexpected. He expected them himself when he wrote the piece.

 

Overall I am glad he posted his experiences because newcomers need a broad variety of views and information sources in order to make a considered decision on whether to make, what for a lot of us is an expensive journey, to Brasil. However his and everyone elses views must be placed in context with the growing multitude of other views here.

 

Mavica keep posting here as other things will spring to mind as the weeks go by but please reread your posts and if something seems incitive, consider wording it differently.

 

But thanks for your memories.

[Mavica]

RE: through the looking glass

 

Thanks for your replies! No, I don't expect the hard-core to agree with a first-timer's experiences . . . because there's no comparison. But, the state of denial some of you live in is laughable. You don't have a clue, really! Anyway, and, most importantly . . . I want to say that I do appreciate everything you regulars post here (even the fantasy, and the "Chamber of Commerce" stuff, too!), because you really love the place and you, generally, post such high quality information. I know I've been a bit direct . . . and you've all met the challenge. Let me say that I don't question anybody's personal integrity. We disagree on some things. . . so what? Hey . . . I had a great vacation . . . great beaches, great weather . . . good sex . . . wonderful food. Okay . . . drag it out of me . . . Rio's a good place for a vacation . . . you made me admit it! Hustlers? Well . . .let's let that one pass! trilingual, gringo, jake , etc. etc. - all of you . . . thanks for being there for me and the others who search for up to date and current information. Okay . . . I might want to say fuc*k you on occassion . . . but, I'm certain . . . the feeling's mutual. I don't run . . . I don't hide . . . I take muy "licks" when they're coming . . . and we move-on together. By the way . . . I just returned from London . . . and what a time I had (oh, and it didn't cost a Pound!). Hey . . . how about those bonfires . . . no public insecurity issues, eh?