Update on Rio Crime

[Guest Tomcal_]

I just recieved this email from a friend who lives in Rio, very close to the Atlantico hotel, I had messaged him this morning, saying that several posters had talked about recent crime wave against tourists. Here is what he wrote:

"oh, tom, those are definetely isolated incidents... believe me, it not what they say. sometimes people come to rio and forget that rio is not some tropical paradise with toucans and palm trees, smiling black servants,, all the cliches.\rio is a big city, with all the problems that a big city has, and the tourist has to be aware of them.. just like i am when i go to new york"

 

I guess the same thing that Tri and I have posted on here, be aware, don't wear jewelry that attracts attention, don't have guys you dont' know back to your room(btw, this was one of the two highly published incidents, they invited a couple strangers they met on beach back to the room, they had a condo, so no desk to leave I.D. at!)

[Guest Deweywop]

Does anyone know if there's a seasonal cycle to crime in Rio? Mavica's sobering reports are coming 3 weeks before Carnavale, the peak of tourist season. I was in Rio early in the season, November of 2001, with rains, and had to remind myself constantly to stay alert, because not only did I not encounter danger, I didn't even catch a whiff of danger.

[Guest Gringo]

Carnavale is a wonderful, frenzied party. Everyone should experience it once----that's all. It's like being in Times Square for New Year's Eve. I did it once. I'll do it again heavily sedated or at the point of a gun!! I prefer Brasil ANYTIME except Carnavale. It's like going to the beach on Labor Day. The prices are at their highest, the crime against tourists is at the highest, and the service is at the lowest. You decide.

[trilingual]

It probably doesn't require a degree in nuclear physics to deduce that crime involving tourists goes up during high season. Where there's more pickings, the more crooks there will be. After all, it's hard to rob a tourist who isn't there! There's also the inevitable trouble with unsupervised kids and teenagers, who are out of school now during the southern summer.

 

In spite of the spike in crime, as Tomcal's friend said, these are still isolated instances. I'm certainly not going to say nothing could ever happen to you if you visit Brazil, but I've been going there for extended stays for more than 20 years and have never had anything bad happen. And even though I speak Portuguese and am very familiar with the country, I look and dress like an American, and I'm sure my body language marks me as a foreigner, too. The fact that nothing has ever happened to me is probably due, in part, to dumb luck, but it's also due to using as much common sense as I can muster. I try to be inconspicuous, I do my best to be alert to my surroundings, I avoid carrying anything of value (or that looks like it might be of value), at night I avoid dark streets with poor lighting and no foot traffic, I stay out of high-crime neighborhoods, I don't invite unknown people to my lodgings, etc. By and large, the same things I'd do in N.Y. or here in San Francisco.

 

Everyone has different levels of risk they're willing to accept. I'm no daredevil myself, but I also know I could get killed by slipping and falling right in the privacy of my own bathroom at home! The odds of that happening are higher than you might believe! Let's face it, nobody's perfectly safe anywhere, so once you assimilate that thought it's easier to go on with life without constantly looking over your shoulder.

[Luv2play]

There is an apt analogy here in Florida. The other day they reported that shark attacks are down (almost half the attacks world-wide are reported in Florida). The reason? Fewer sharks? No. Fewer tourists. :o

[Driver]

Are not more people killed by falling coconuts than by sharks?

[Guest miketur]

Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

The Atlantico is BAD located .

Close from the Favela Ladeira dos Tabajaras ...

I dont suggest to stay in that hotel .

More tips ????????

Cheers

miketur@yahoo.com

[Guest Tomcal_]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Mike any other reasons not to stay there? I know you represent varius lodgings in Rio. The Altantico is on the intersection of 2 major cross streets. 4 blocks from the beach, and the Marriott, and 8 blocks from the Palace,(both of which are considered high end Hotels and safe surroundings) so it would fall to reason that you shouldn't stay there either, muggers certainly walk more then 1 or 2 blocks. Why would any of those be safer? In four trips to Rio in the past year, I have stayed in that area each time, and felt very safe compared to other parts of Copa, granted Ipenema is more upscale and it's like walking around Westwood in L.A., where Copa reminds me more of older parts of Manhatten. Secondly the Atlantico is less then a block from Estacio and 2-1/2 blocks from Rogers and the new 202, which are the reasons most of us are going to Rio and on this board. So if you stayed at Atlantico I would think you would lessen your chances of being mugged as you are exposed out on the street for a much shorter period of time then if you were walking from the Marriott,Palace, Othon, etc. Since Last October, quite of few guys from this board have stayed at the Atlantico and no one has had a problem. For those that are worried, the cabs sit about 5 feet in front of the door of the Atlantico and you can have the desk call you a cab at the saunas or give one of the boys $20 reias and have him walk with you back to the Hotel or back from the restaurant(Corujo's)

[Driver]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Not to mention the armed traffic cop that seemed to be there most of the 16 days i was there last time. It is true if you look out of your bedroom window you can see a favela but if you look the other way you can see the sea. Its a working area with plenty of normal Brasillians leading a normal life with supermarkets, drug stores, juice bars, hardware shops, gyms etc.

 

Ok its not exactly downtown by our standards but I felt completely safe there. A sea front hotel could be deemed unsafe simply by being near the beach late at night. (Though i did walk on the hotel side of the sea front many a time without any perceived danger).

 

I will be there in 22 days at the Atlantico and will post my observations.

[trilingual]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

In "Chicago" there's "booze everywhere, jazz everywhere" and in Rio there are favelas and poverty everywhere. Even in the midst of what seem to be "upscale" areas. Besides the favela near the Atlântico mentioned by Mike, there's one near the Leme end of Copacabana, relatively close to the Copacabana Palace and the Meridien, and another on Morro do Cantagalo, towards the Ipanema end, very close to the Sofitel! At the end of Leblon and literally right across the street from the Sheraton is the Vidigal favela. Fashionable São Conrado, the next beach area after Leblon, where some of the wealthiest Brazilians live in fabulously expensive and exclusive apartment buildings, is cheek-by-jowl with Rocinha, the largest favela in Brazil! Out in Barra da Tijuca (aka Miami-in-Brazil with its fancy apartment buildings, gated communities and endless shopping malls) there are a number of favelas interspersed amidst the luxury. So where can you go to get away from it? Try Monaco! In Rio, the Atlântico is no worse located than many other hotels.

 

Honestly, guys, anyone going to Brazil thinking that it's going to be as safe as Monte Carlo is seriously deluded! Rio's a mega-city in the third world, and it has all of the problems that go with that. However, it's also not the old Wild West. Well, not most of the time. Brazilians, like Mike, sometimes get a bit paranoid about the crime, because they live there and they're bombarded every day with all the news reports in the papers and on TV. What's important for visitors to remember is that by far the greatest part of crime in Rio is within the favelas and other poor neighborhoods themselves, and most of that is related to drug-trafficking. This rarely affects visitors or middle/upper-class Brazilians.

 

There IS economic crime against tourists and better-off Brazilians, like muggings and break-ins. There's no way to immunize yourself from it completely, but by using the common-sense advice and techniques in earlier posts it's possible to minimize your risk. In a city the size of Rio, there are inevitably a few hundred incidents each tourist season. Compare that, however, to the literally hundreds of thousands of vacationers who are in Rio during the season, who experience no problems at all, and you can put the issue into better perspective.

[jackhammer91406]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Thanks Tomcal and Tri,

I have booked the presidential suite for my 10 day stay in Oct. I am very excited about it. I know that crime exists anywhere you go. I plan to be sensible and observant . The various posts from those who have gone before about how to be careful have been helpful. I am not afraid at all to go and stay at this hotel. In fact, I can hardy wait.

 

[Guest Tomcal_]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

BTW, Guys, I have walked from Corujo's(AKA, Jabba the Hut) restaurant, at least a dozen times, after 2:00 a.m. and have walked by groups of guys, as they are usually hanging around the square block park that is across the street from the restaurant, and which you have to walk by to get back to the hotel. Never once, was I approached or bothered by anyone, again, this is a very busy area in the early morning hours. I always walk with my head up and look directly at anyone walking towards me, don't know if that will deter a would be mugger, but like the Lions and the wildebeasts, they look for the weakest member of the herd! They are the ones that look away, look vunerable, etc. If you have any concerns, as I said before, there are always suana boys at the restaurant, offer them $10. - 20. reias to walk you back to the hotel(and more to stay the night if you like them.. :-) ) Then you will have no problems! I highly recommend Carlos from Rogers or Kevin(the sometimes annoying one from Estacio, but he speaks English and is alway at the restaurant by 1:00 am each night)they will be happy to walk the few blocks back with you and you will have no problems with muggers...not that i think you will anyway, but first timers i know might be nervous not being familiar with the area. Enjoy! Tom

[Mavica]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Sorry to disagree, but the whopping increase in assaults upon tourists in RIO are hardly "isloated" incidents.

The assaults against tourists"reported" to the police were up 40% in January 2003 as compared to the same month a year ago, and it's reported that the early-February figures are as alarming (the reports I listened to last week talked about a high percentage of crimes going unreported, so add some percentage points to the already high crime levels). If one is to dress down, strip down to next to nothing in order to blend in and look like locals . . . then I suggest that people just stay home. What's the point of going on vacation? It's fine to promote a place one likes to visit, but to trivialize the serious crime situtation in such a filppant manner does a disservice to people unfamiliar with the area who are searching for honest information. Is this message board a branch of the local chamber of commerce?

[Guest Tomcal_]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Mavica, I think I have the right to post what my experiences have been and my observations are just as you do, without you saying that I am trivializing them! Afterall this is about opinions. Since I have been there 4 times in 12 months, my experiences are as least as relevent as yours, maybe more so,I think! Secondly, when you report a 40% increase in crime the percentages mean nothing unless you know what numbers the increase is based on!! Pollsters for politicians and for promoting different agendas do this all the time! For example an increase from 2 - 4 is 100%, a increase from 1,000 to 1,200. is 20% but obviously more meaningful. If you want to be helpful, give the guys reading this solid information that compares the rate, type, and numbers of crime as compared to a major metropolitan area they are familiar with like NYC, Miami, etc. Your there for a week or so, and now you know better then the guy I quoted who lives about 3 blocks form Atlantico and is a law professor at the University! I am not on the tourist board of Rio, and frankly really don't care if more Americans go to Rio or not(in fact I probably would like less to go there, as we wouldn't have the overpaying that goes on with new guys, and there are enough locals to support the saunas). Are the newpapers trying to sell more copies by using sensational headlines!(of course not , that would never happen!) Remember Miami a few years ago, I was in Europe and if you read the papers over there, you would have thought the African American population in Miami was killing off every tourist that got off the planes, when in fact, several were killed, and it was terrible but, out of how many?, over 1,000,000 toursits? .... The warning at that time to tourists , "know where you are going in the rental car, follow the yellow sun signs, etc." Similiar to what we have said here, be aware, don't act foolish. Personally I felt more unsafe in several Mexican resort towns, then i do in Rio, but that's my experience! (I would have underlined MY but dont' know how to do it on here..lol ) Again I think your posts have been great and very informative, but before you start accusing me or others of having a agenda, check with us first, because our opinions differ, doesn't mean we are not as all knowing as you or more ignorant or a unpaid chamber of Commerence volunteer for Rio!

[trilingual]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

I'm with Tomcal on this one, and I don't have his advantage of being 6'5" and, um, imposing! }( I'm 5'6" and definitely unimposing, plus I'm overweight and clearly not in peak physical shape, yet I've also had no problems in twenty years of travel to Brazil. (OK, there was that attempted pickpocketing last year near the Praça da República in SP, right in the middle of the day, but nothing happened. I still laugh when I remember the expression on the guy's face when his gringo mark started screaming "Who's hand is that?" in Portuguese. He looked like he was scared of being lynched by the crowds surrounding us!)

 

What's the problem with minimizing risk by dressing down? I don't know where you live in the Midwest, but would you sightsee through the, shall we say, less-elite neighborhoods of Chicago, St. Louis or Detroit in designer outfits, fully accesorized in Bulgari or Tiffany and ostentatiously displaying your expensive mini-cam? Somehow I think not, so why would you do that in Rio?

 

You don't have to strip to nothing to increase your safety in Rio, just be sensible. (Not to mention comfortable!) When I'm in Rio I wear my everyday American clothing (mainly chinos and button-down shirts) and it has to be obvious that I'm not Brazilian. However, I do what I can to blend in by wearing subdued patterns and colors. I don't wear jewelry at home and use a plastic Casio watch, so I don't need to make any big changes in that respect when I'm in Brazil. When I go out I leave most of my cash and my passport concealed in my hotel room and carry only the credit cards I'll need. If I want to take pictures, I use a small, unobtrusive, easy-to-carry camera. Since it would make a most interesting bulge in my pocket, I usually carry the camera, along with a local newspaper and whatever else I may need, in a plastic local supermarket or Lojas Americanas bag which won't attract attention. Of course, I follow the usual minimalist advice when going to the beach. Locals do the same. And that's all. I don't employ any unusual methods or efforts nor travel with bodyguards or in armored vehicles. I just try to exercise common sense, and it seems to have been effective if the worst thing to have happened to me in twenty years of travel to Brazil is a comically unsuccessful pickpocketing attempt! (In fact, the only places I've ever been successfully pickpocketed, or mugged, are NY and San Francisco!)

 

Over and out. . .

[Guest nhl-nbaguy]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

I could not have said it better myself. All that I would add is don't try to rip off escorts when you are there, and you will have further reduced your risks of unfortunate outcomes. Happy trails!

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Mike, I'd like to know what favelas are nearest Atlantico Copa Hotel--****? In October of '02-- I toured the favelas with Marcello Armstrong's partner and six more folks; we had a long trip via van before we reached our impending destinations! I think you erred big time!

 

I am concerned, but I am NOT PARANOID about being in the streets of Rio. As a world traveler-- I am attentive and alert and do as other folks here who visit cities throughout the world. I keep my wits about me and do things to avoid any type of disaster. Albeit this is not always 100% safe proof.

 

When I am in San Francisco-- I am cautious when walking during the day as well as night in its Tenderloin District; I never go to Bayview Hunter's Point. A very good friend of mine who is now deceased lived in a wonderful house in this area, thus I as a driver ventured lightly and cautiously there.

 

But to get back to Mike's statement of the hotel's being near the favelas is pure Bunk unless I was COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS to my surroundings...

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

Driver, TomCal, and Tri, I definitely appreciate your take on this.

Your depictions and descriptions are absolutely correct. Marcello Armstrong's tour partner stated that there are favelas which are tame, so to speak, and others which are horrendously dangerous; he also stated that by many of the residents knowing him that he felt relatively safe, but he, too, has to be cautious.

His tour company does not take tourists to the really, really rough favelas, for there are many favelas in Rio from what he related to us six or eight tourists.

 

Tri was absolutely correct is his assessment: in the guide books as well as what Tri has stated in many a thread, the rich and poor rub shoulders in many situations in the city of the cariocas.

[Driver]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

He is quite correct - just looking out of my bedroom window - the favela was as near to the hotel as the sea.

[alankay]

RE: Guy ... this is my opinion ...

 

I stayed at the Atlantico in December and the Windsor Palace in January (2003). If there is a favella up the mountain next to the Atlantico it is news to me. I had a room that overlooked the mountain and it is so steep you could not build anything on the side of it. There is some low end housing up the street from the Atlantico but I would not call it a favella. The Atlantico has a doorman on duty all night and I came in as late as 5 AM and always felt secure. If you have any anxiety it is simple and cheap to take a cab! Cabs are everywhere and I never had a cab driver take me out of the way to get back to the hotel--as I've experienced in various US cities. On my next trip to Rio I've booked at the Royalty Copacabana. It is located a block north of the Atlantico in an area that is a bit quieter. I would not hesitate to recommend the area immediately around the Atlantico and I am sure it is indeed safer to walk a shorter distance at night than to an ocean front hotel like the Marriott which is at least 4 city blocks to the east. I would also like to add that if there is a major crime wave in Copacabana it happened after I left on January 23rd!

[Luv2play]

As luck would have it, there was a shark attack yesterday at Jupiter, north of Palm Beach. Well, at least it was a local:7 Oh, Im bad, now the sharks will get mex(

[Mavica]

Favelas/Hotel Atlantico Copacabana

 

Before traveling to Rio last week, I read a lot of information about the city . . . and some specific material about favelas. From what I’ve read, and heard while in Rio, the term favela is used pretty loosely . . . and isn’t used exclusively to describe just high-crime/drug environment “slum” areas. I have no idea whether or not there’s an area people refer to as a favela that’s close to the Atlantico Copacabana Hotel, but I wouldn‘t be surprised if one was. And, about feeling insecure in the neighborhood around the Atlantico: yes, as a first-timer . . . at times I did feel insecure, and after 11 at night I‘d return to the hotel in a taxi (I‘m a big walker, and it just killed me to take the taxi‘s).

 

About this character Marcello Armstrong, and his “Favela Tours,” well, I’ve said it elsewhere, and will repeat it here, again . . . I think the group misrepresents the situation, seems more interested in selling glider tours, t-shirts, trinkets, etc. . . . and I don’t recommend that people patronize him (take the 591 bus from Copacabana through some of the same areas, or a private taxi . . . for a lesser cost and, I think, no less “secure”). While on the “tour,” we visited two areas I think many city residents would consider middle-class (or very close) lifestyles . . . and yet they were described as terrible slums. When I lived in Mexico City, I lived in a couple of neighborhoods that were very similar. . . and residents didn’t consider themselves slum-dwellers . . . and I‘ll be surprised if residents of the buildings we saw/visited do, either.

 

First-timers and frequent visitors will, probably, differ in their opinions about areas that are secure, etc. . . . and that’s understandable. Nonetheless, these insecure feelings are out there, and are real . . . and need to be acknowledged. I’d be surprised to learn that most of the people reading these messages are as hard-core hustler-chasers as many of the regular posters are, and, if/when they visit Rio, they won’t seemingly spend every waking hour having sex. Yes, there’s life outside the sidewalk route between the Atlantico and Estacao/Roger’s/Point 202. That said, when I looked for Roger’s, I couldn’t find it because the street doesn’t appear on any of the four or five maps I have of the area. I misunderstood the directions the hotel clerk gave me when I asked him, and I wandered off behind the hotel and several blocks in the “wrong” direction. Later, I was surprised that, while I was frustrated when I couldn’t locate the street . . . I realized that I didn’t feel insecure wandering around that neighborhood, and various people I stopped on the street to ask for assistance of were cordial and they tried to be helpful (it was daylight).

 

I think there’s been a lot of one-sided promotion of Hotel Atlantico Copacabana . . . but if others wish to promote/recommend a place they’ve found comfortable, it’s up to them to speak up and share the information with others. I found the Atlantico a hotel that sort of grows on you as the days pass. I don’t know if I’d stay there again (probably, I’d opt for a comparably-priced hotel in Ipanema, maybe the Vermont . . . or rent an apartment) . . . but, once inside the hotel . . . I never felt unsafe (the staff is very good, and, I think, properly protective without being intrusive), and the property was more than adequate for my needs; as a first-timer, I think it was a good choice for me (for those planning to immerse themselves in the hustler scene and not do much sightseeing, you can’t beat its proximity to three hustler saunas - within a block to block and a half of the hotel).

[Driver]

RE: Favelas/Hotel Atlantico Copacabana

 

One of the advantages to me is that the Atlantico posts prices in $R rather than USA $ which allows me to take advantage of the situation now with perhaps unusual currency differences.

 

When you couple this with is location and attidtude to visitors it seems a good deal. I am open to tales of better hotels as always.

[trilingual]

RE: Favelas/Hotel Atlantico Copacabana

 

With all the news reports of crime, not to mention postings on sites like this one, it's understandable that a first-time visitor to Rio might be somewhat apprehensive about his security. The vast majority of visitors discover that Rio (at least the parts of the city a visitor is likely to experience) is not something out of Blade Runner. As Mavica points out, he wandered past the street Roger's is on into an area he wasn't familiar with and not only didn't feel threatened, he found people friendly and helpful. (By the way, the specific directions to Roger's are found in the Brazilian Saunas review, in the original semi-world-famous review. However, to save time, it's the small street that intersects Siqueira Campos just before reaching what is now going to be the Point 202. Just turn left on Min. Alfredo Valadão as you're going up Siqueira Campos towards Point 202.)

 

Mavica's comments about the favela tour are interesting. I've never taken it (having grown up in Mexico City in the early '50s I've seen all the slums I need to, close up) but I'm surprised to hear that they take people through middle/working class areas and call them slums. I was under the impression that the tours went to Rocinha, the largest favela in Rio (and supposedly in Latin America). Rocinha has been around a long time now, and parts of it are now fairly solidly constructed and might look almost middle-class. I understand there are now bank branches, fast food restaurants and other urban amenities. In the higher, and newer parts of the favela, one is likely to find poorer, more precarious dwellings. Rio has decided to make its peace with the favelas, and it's initiated a program to extend municipal services like running water, sewage and electricity into the neighborhoods. It's going to be a long, slow process, but at least the city isn't trying to pretend the favelas don't exist any more.

 

Some of the other favelas are much more basic and poor than Rocinha, and they're still crime-ridden, scary places for both the residents and other cariocas. I think there are other tours that go to some of those favelas. They aren't someplace to go on your own. You should only go with a tour or someone who lives in the favela. The drug gangs are quite paranoid about strangers.

 

Rio is filled with hotels, and there's certainly no need to stay at the Atlântico if someone prefers another area. However, quite a number of picky posters seem to be satisfied with the Atlântico's prices, service and convenient location. It's even grown on Mavica! ;-) I certainly don't think it's out of place for people to recommend a hotel they like, any more than it's inappropriate to comment favorably on escorts they like!

 

Anyway, Rio itself seems to have grown on Mavica. I see that he's now talking about a return trip and other hotels he'd like to stay in! Before long he's going to be a full-fledged member of the Brazil Nuts! :7

[+ Axiom2001]

RE: Favelas/Hotel Atlantico Copacabana

 

When I decided to go to Brazil, I fervently read this site; I asked questions and received valid and plausible answers. I purchased and read THE LONELY PLANET and ROUGH GUIDES and an assortment of other books before venturing out. As far as hotels went--I booked the Atlantico at http://www.impanema.com in R$ at a very, very reasonable price during Brazil's low season; I also went on the recommendation of some of the respondents here; as a newbie at the time, I found the hotel to meet my expectations and comfortability; its location sufficed; I was never fearful, and I walked those streets, night and day and was forever cognizant of what I deemed might not be safe. Fortunately, I never encountered any craziness from anyone.

 

When I went to Roger's-- I showed the address to someone on the desk, he gave me two ways to go; his directions were superb, for Roger's is really, really close to the Atlantico. As far as Marcello Armstrong's favela tour went-- the six of us in this tour group were taken to the Rocinha and to two other favelas. We walked five blocks once we got there-- passing banks, a mini McDonald's which seemed to be a small "hole" in the wall, were advised NOT to take photos of individuals, especially men unless we got their permission, passed small grocery stores, health clinics, etc. Our guide took us into one shop; I was QUITE disinterested and did NOT purchase anything; in fact no one in our group purchased any items. We went to a special school for about one hundred youngsters. Alfredo our guide never was explicit as to why these kids attended this school, but he intimated that they were there for survival. I, the shy one at times, failed to ask him specifically why these kids were here. The environs of the school were adequate; this school is supported by the community; across the large valley or canyon from the Rocinha favela is the American International School; their view is that of this massive favela. Also, from other points one can see the very rich high rises. Again, their view is the favelas; Alfredo told us that there are favelas, and then there are favelas. We were not taken to the really devastating ones, and I'm glad that we weren't; I seen poverty and the poor in other countries as well as our own, and I just didn't want to see anymore abject poverty. I think we saw the AUTHENTIC ones (three in all--each different in scope although there are many of them that exist.

 

I chose this tour, for it was suggested in LONELY PLANET. I'm sorry that the guide who took Mavica did a tour that was apparently different from what I received in October.

 

Nine days from now when my friend and I go to Rio, we will stay at the Atlantico; I plan to take another tour of the favelas, perhaps with another company or try to go with Ernani if he's available (His life is changing now.) or with a couple of trusted locals from Miketur's. (He's posted here now.); we plan to do the Gay Gala Ball; I plan to do the cruise with Alex and Apollus escorts. We both will very definitely take in other cultural experiences. I want to go to the areas I missed in October; after Carnaval, we might go to Perati and I again to Petropolis. Yes, let me not forget-- we definitely will be going to the Plataforma, a place that has been suggested by others on this board. Lastly, we plan to spend some time at LeBoy and at the four saunas, but this trip will encompass much as to what Rio, Brasil has to offer.

 

Again, I thank Tri, TomCal, Driver, Jake, MikeM, xChris, Mavica, and all of the other respondents; your vignettes and sagas and words of guidance have been most beneficial and will enhance the experiences which my friend and I will undergo within nine days. I have yet to decide if I'll report while there, or if I'll wait until I return. My friend might take his lap top, and if he lets me use it, men, WATCH OUT!