Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining with me at Maxims

[Guest fukamarine]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Never let it be said that our old friend Ad rian isn't tenacious.

HE WILL NOT GIVE UP! Just like a terrier with a bone.

 

fukamarine

[trilingual]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

R$10 is a generous amount in Brazil, where the customary service charge or tip is 10%. In other words, R$10 would be the appropriate tip on R$100, which would be a VERY expensive meal in Brazil. I'm sure Alphadog didn't pay anything close to that at Maxim's. I'd be surprised if his meal was much more than R$30, unless he had a lot to drink. Also, if I read his post correctly, the R$10 he offered the waiter to help him get rid of the hustler was in addition to the included 10% service charge. (What Auntie Semitic is congenitally unable to understand out there on Planet Plaza Athenée, where tipping 100% or more is apparently the norm, is that R$10 has approximately the same purchasing power in Brazil as US$10 has in the United States, so it's real money.)

 

If the hustler who joined Alphadog was an appropriately-dressed, good-looking guy who looked like an escort, management at Maxim's wouldn't ordinarily interfere. They know perfectly well that a significant part of their business comes from being a meeting place for escorts and clients. Maxim's has been such a meeting place throughout the 20 years that I've been visiting Brazil, and evidently long before my first arrival on the scene. (For those who haven't yet been to Rio, envision a beachfront sidewalk café version of Numbers or Rounds, only more mixed because not all of the customers are escorts/clients.) That means Maxim's management knows perfectly well that the occasional bad apple infiltrates the establishment and that's why they employ security guards. In Alphadog's situation, Maxim's was badly remiss when he asked the waiter for help in getting rid of one of the bad apples and was ignored. I hope this was an isolated incident, because Maxim's has always been a fun place. It would be a shame if people had to stop going there because management has allowed it to become a hangout for con artists who try to strong arm customers, or worse.

 

And Alphadog, hon, if that waiter is still at Maxim's the next time you go to Rio and you're unlucky enough to be stuck with him, I think you'd be perfectly within your rights to leave him a lump of coal instead of a tip! }(

[ad rian]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>R$10 is a generous amount in Brazil, where the customary

>service charge or tip is 10%. In other words, R$10 would be

>the appropriate tip on R$100, which would be a VERY expensive

>meal in Brazil. I'm sure Alphadog didn't pay anything close

>to that at Maxim's. I'd be surprised if his meal was much more

>than R$30, unless he had a lot to drink. Also, if I read his

>post correctly, the R$10 he offered the waiter to help him get

>rid of the hustler was in addition to the included 10% service

>charge.

 

Well, this looks like yet another case of Res Ipsa Loquitur applying. Obviously the waiter did not find the 10R tip to be sufficient to flip his wig. The fact that having watched the poster dine with the hustler, the waiter did not evict the hustler for an extra 10R does not surprise me. That said, your tribal instincts with respect to tipping have been well rehearsed here. My advice to others is that if you want to be silly and naive like the original poster, don't try to save on a Sheckel when it comes to tipping if you want your waiter to be a bouncer and to save you from your self-induced folly!

[Guy Fawkes]

THREAD ALERT

 

Guys,

 

Back to the topic, and move the snipping to the lounge. Futher off topic comments (i.e. attacks) will be deleted without comment.

 

Pressing the issue will simply get the thread locked off and Repeat offenders WILL be sanctioned. I DO NOT have the time right now to be a hall monitor and I will not.

[jackhammer91406]

RE: THREAD ALERT

 

Thank you Daddy !!!

[ad rian]

RE: THREAD ALERT

 

>Thank you Daddy !!!

 

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Jake]

RE: THREAD ALERT

 

>>Thank you Daddy !!!

>

>Ditto!!!!!!!!!!

>

What an amazing perspective.

[ad rian]

RE: THREAD ALERT

 

>>>Thank you Daddy !!!

>>

>>Ditto!!!!!!!!!!

>>

>What an amazing perspective.

 

Not really if you bother to read the tedious and abusive tomes of Trlingual here. I will respond to his bait when and as required. He does not have a monopoly on insight into Brazil or escorts in Brazil.

[ad rian]

Deleted message

 

No message

[Brianfix2002]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

I am new to this message board. Who is ad rian and why is he such a bitter person?

[ad rian]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>I am new to this message board. Who is ad rian and why is he

>such a bitter person?

 

Why is it bitter to say that I think Rio is safe if you take due care, as opposed to slandering a city instead of taking responsibility for your own silly actions? Isn't that calling black white?

[MiamiLooker]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Why do you keep calling this slander????

[MiamiLooker]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Why do you keep calling this slander????

[MiamiLooker]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Why do you keep calling this slander????

[ad rian]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>Why do you keep calling this slander????

 

Because I never found Rio to be unsafe in my experience. And when I hear reports of its alleged unsafeness as in this thread, with a little deeper inquiry it always seems to me that the harmed individual acted in an unreasonable manner that he or she would not have acted at home with predictable though unfortunate consequences.

[Guest Jake]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

As a regular visitor (and, hopefully, part-time resident soon) I don't consider Rio partucularly unsafe either when taking reasonable precautions in reasonable parts of the city. I believe a vast majority of the Rio visitors would agree with this proposition. And - not that I would ever expect to change your obviously highly-pedigreed pit bull opinion or disposition - I also believe that a vast majority of the readers familiar with Rio, Atlantico and Maxim's would feel that alphadog acted perfectly reasonably and in tune with the cusoms of that particular locale. While I haven't (yet) opened my table to any of the attractions walking by, I've certainly watched many people - Americans, Europeans, local Brazilians, etc. - do so naturally and, apparently, successfully with APPROPRIATE looking individuals. I think alpha just got caught in an exceptional situation and did the best he could under the circumstances. I, for one, am glad he wasn't intimidated by this guy who would be an extorting bully in any society in any country.

[Guest alphadogtx]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Mr Ad rian

 

We seemed to have come to an unfortunate misunderstanding here. I never intended to slandered your beloved city of Rio, and I still do not see where I called your beautiful city unsafe. I wrote about one incident where one boy threatened me, tried to extort money from me. I don't think that is the predictable consequence from what I did.

 

And I said be careful. I did not say Rio was unsafe.

 

I knew that these boys try to drum up business at Maxims - what I did not know was that they charge for "companionship, conversation" at the tables, even when I tell them that I want to be alone.

 

At home in Texas, I act no differently. I do invite some of less fortunate I encounter into my home. I give them a meal, an opportunity for a shower or bath , and sometimes a change of clothing. I am a compassionate man, and I do what I can, when I can. What I did at Maxims is, now I know, not very wise, but it is something from my heart. The results are unfortunate, but it in no way did it make me feel that Rio is unsafe, nor did I intend to say that. I was angry that I was threatened with a beating, and with being stabbed, yes, but I don't think those punishments were in line with refusing to pay for unrequested companionship and repeatedly telling him that I wanted to be alone? If it is, then yes, I am guilty of being naive and uninformed.

 

Mr Ad rian. If you have seen my other posts about Rio, you will see how much I enjoyed my Rio visit. I am very glad that you love Rio so much, too, and are such a staunch defender of the beautiful city that is Rio, but sad that you attack without knowing me. You do have good points to make at times, but it gets lost in the noise that your posts sometimes stir up.

[ad rian]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>We seemed to have come to an unfortunate misunderstanding

>here. I never intended to slandered your beloved city of Rio,

>and I still do not see where I called your beautiful city

>unsafe. I wrote about one incident where one boy threatened

>me, tried to extort money from me. I don't think that is the

>predictable consequence from what I did.

 

At the risk of being accused of being a pit bull again by another interlocutor, and perhaps as one who travels and has travelled more frequently than most who posts here, I do think the consequences of your action, while unintended, were entirely predictable. As for the rest, the description that you provide, while no doubt true, I think is negative (whether that was your intent or not (I am not big on intent in any case.)), and my point for the last time is that given your irresponsible action, I don't think it fair to tell such stories in that way. You are not alone in this. Many tourists do so whether in Brazil or elsewhere. I say it again, I have yet to meet anybody who has described a story of a negative travel experience where upon questioning I have concluded that the individual was at fault. Again, I don't write this to insult you. My comments are more directed at the way people travel, and by the strength of the responses here it seems that many are committed to the idea that they can take risks abroad that they don't take at home. That pattern will continue, as will the negative responses, but both are unfortunate.

 

>I knew that these boys try to drum up business at Maxims -

>what I did not know was that they charge for "companionship,

>conversation" at the tables, even when I tell them that I want

>to be alone.

 

But when you invited him to sit and eat, what were you expecting precisely? Would you assume that the meter only starts with the esx in Texas?

 

>What I did at Maxims is, now I know, not very

>wise, but it is something from my heart. The results are

>unfortunate, but it in no way did it make me feel that Rio is

>unsafe, nor did I intend to say that. I was angry that I was

>threatened with a beating, and with being stabbed, yes, but I

>don't think those punishments were in line with refusing to

>pay for unrequested companionship and repeatedly telling him

>that I wanted to be alone? If it is, then yes, I am guilty of

>being naive and uninformed.

 

Again, I don't defend the conduct. I just think it was predictable. I see foreign tourists who act the way you did too. All that I ask is that if you voluntarilly assume a risk abroad don't bitch about the consequences after the fact. Frankly, I don't understand why my point has elicited such heated responses, but I suspect that it comes from an array of folks who don't like my posts on other threads. So be it.

[Guest alphadogtx]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>

>At the risk of being accused of being a pit bull again by

>another interlocutor, and perhaps as one who travels and has

>travelled more frequently than most who posts here, I do think

>the consequences of your action, while unintended, were

>entirely predictable.

 

And here is perhaps the problem. Not everyone has the wisdom nor the experience that you have, not everyone has traveled as frequently nor as insightfully as you have (do). You will have to forgive the rest of us, and perhaps understand that what is entirely predictable to you is not at all clear to the rest of us who are not nearly as well travelled as you.

>

>But when you invited him to sit and eat, what were you

>expecting precisely? Would you assume that the meter only

>starts with the esx in Texas?

 

Why, yes, unless something was explicitly arranged beforehand. And for the last time, also, I did not invite him to sit and eat, I acquiesed to his request to sit and have a drink.

 

 

>>What I did at Maxims is, now I know, not very

>>wise, but it is something from my heart. The results are

>>unfortunate, but it in no way did it make me feel that Rio

>is

>>unsafe, nor did I intend to say that. I was angry that I

>was

>>threatened with a beating, and with being stabbed, yes, but

>I

>>don't think those punishments were in line with refusing

>to

>>pay for unrequested companionship and repeatedly telling

>him

>>that I wanted to be alone? If it is, then yes, I am guilty

>of

>>being naive and uninformed.

>

>Again, I don't defend the conduct. I just think it was

>predictable. I see foreign tourists who act the way you did

>too. All that I ask is that if you voluntarilly assume a risk

>abroad don't bitch about the consequences after the fact.

 

New York is full of negative stories, and so is Chicago, and Los Angelos. I wrote about ONE incident, one boy, I wrote about something I did that was unwise, and now will not do again. I didn't condemn all of Rio. So now, fewer inexperienced travellers if they have read this thread will act "stupidly and irresponsibly". Yes?

 

 

>Frankly, I don't understand why my point has elicited such

>heated responses, but I suspect that it comes from an array of

>folks who don't like my posts on other threads. So be it.

>

 

 

I think it is the way you make your point that elicits such responses.

 

a)If you view what these boys do at Maxims as a business proposition, a "deal proposal" for a later transaction , as it were, then I would say that losing a proposal is not grounds for threatening your potential client. This is my understanding, from what I have read from this forum and what others have told me before going to Rio.

 

b)If you do not see it this way, and consider it like a "taxi", the meter starts running as soon as you enter the cab, which I am beginning to sense that you do, then spending time with me at dinner is "billable". This was not known to me before.

 

These are two different opinions which are divergent and about which we may debate endlessly. But we can discuss them civilly and with much less rancor than my initial post and the subsequent replies, and shed more light than heat. I have learned more about what you are trying to teach me in the past few exchanges than the past week. Thank you.

[ad rian]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

>>But when you invited him to sit and eat, what were you

>>expecting precisely? Would you assume that the meter only

>>starts with the esx in Texas?

>

>Why, yes, unless something was explicitly arranged

>beforehand. And for the last time, also, I did not invite

>him to sit and eat, I acquiesed to his request to sit and have

>a drink.

 

Can we agree that if you knew that you would not pay him for sex that night, knew that he was looking for you t pay him for sex, you were wrong not to reject his request initially? Why didn't you? What specifically were you tinking when you "aquieseced"? I don't mean to press you, and perhaps you are still uncertain, but I think your answer to that holds the key to all that followed.

 

>I think it is the way you make your point that elicits such

>responses.

>

>a)If you view what these boys do at Maxims as a business

>proposition, a "deal proposal" for a later transaction , as it

>were, then I would say that losing a proposal is not grounds

>for threatening your potential client. This is my

>understanding, from what I have read from this forum and what

>others have told me before going to Rio.

 

This is where you lose me. I think your initial post made clear that you knew what he wanted, and what you did not want. In that case, I don't think your conduct fits this scenario, and with the greatest of respect, this does seem to me to be something of an ex post rationalization. Does that mean you should have been threatened? No? Does it mean that it was likely that you would be so threatened abroad as at home? Yes? I think that's why the waiter did not help you for the extra 10R tip. You had voluntarilly assumed the risk. I think had you not "aquiesed" to his request, the waiter would have helped you abroad as at home.

>

>b)If you do not see it this way, and consider it like a

>"taxi", the meter starts running as soon as you enter the cab,

>which I am beginning to sense that you do, then spending time

>with me at dinner is "billable". This was not known to me

>before.

 

I always assume that the meter starts when the escort arrives. He may choose for marketing reasons to start the meter later here or abroad, but I never assume it or expect it here or abroad.

[trilingual]

RE: The Taxi Meter

 

Kindly ignore the idiotic messages from the alleged world traveler from Planet Plaza Athenée. It's obvious from his postings that he's never been to Rio or to Maxim's and he's just wasting everyone's time here, or worse, because he's posting disinformation that could lead new visitors to Rio into serious trouble.

 

First, Rio is not a "safe" city, as the interplanetary one claims. It's not as dangerous as one might believe from press accounts, but there's a lot of economic crime. There are lots of poor people, the economy is weak, jobs are scarce, and many people are desperate. That's a recipe for muggings and break-ins. There is a very high rate of violent crime in the poorer neighborhoods (mainly drug-traffic related in the favelas) but that usually doesn't affect visitors. As I've said before, Brazil has a way of dazzling you and getting you to drop your guard, but that's unwise. Most of the places you're likely to visit in Brazil are very large cities, when they are megalopolises like São Paulo or Rio. Even if they have sun, sand and palm trees, they're still plagued with the ills of third-world urban areas, and it's important to be stay vigilant and use the same caution and common sense you would in any major metropolis. As long as you do, you're not likely to run into any problems.

 

The interplanetary one must be referring to local customs on Planet P.A. when he suggests you owe a hustler who invites himself to your table anything other a smile, some conversation and, if you're in the mood, an offer of a drink or something to eat. You don't owe him anything else, unless you've taken up an inordinate amount of his time without intending to hire him, in which case it's reasonable to offer what you'd have paid at the sauna, like R$50 if he's been with you for an hour. Of course, if you've made it clear from the beginning that you're not interested in hiring him, and the guy stays at your table anyway, instead of moving on to find another client, you have no obligation to him at all. He's there enjoying your company and, if anything, he owes YOU! (It's still kind to offer a drink or snack; he may not have had much luck that evening and may be tired and hungry.) But Auntie S's bizarre idea that you incur an obligation just because a hustler comes to your table is strictly extra-galactic, and it's definitely NOT the way things work in the Rio de Janeiro that's located on Planet Earth! So, again (and for the last time) you did nothing wrong, you just ran into a creep, which can happen anywhere, even on Planet P.A. In fact, if the rest of the denizens of Planet P.A. are like Auntie S, the entire planet is populated with creeps! Fortunately, in the earthly Rio, most of the guys you'll meet at Maxim's are attractive, pleasant, and aren't con artists. So just chalk this one up to experience.

 

And thanks for posting your experience, Alphadog, because it's important for readers here to realize that there's the occasional thorn and snake in the earthly paradise of Brazil. It's necessary to keep your wits about you, and be prudent, just as you would at home. But don't be misled by Auntie S, who is clearly clueless, or worse! Take care, happy travels and many wonderful returns to South America for you!

[Guest Jake]

RE: Alert!! Rio Beach Boy threatened me after dining wi...

 

Oh good god, motner f-----g superior, give it up and go teach somewhere else where you might be appreciated.