roughrider on hot tops in sf again!

[roughrider]

After all the mess I seemed to have stirred up by asking for some recommendations on tops in sf (along with mentioning a few who I have seen advertise repeatedly on men4rent etc) it turns out that i may not be coming to the city at all but that is still up in the air. What really concerns me though is this: I am still miffed that the clients cannot have a site to privately discuss the escorts and I shall tell you all why I think that that is important. If you read the last note on my first bringing up top escorts in sf there is a reply by axiom2001 on nov 4th outlining a negative experience he had with the walker guy. Now one might just let that pass and clearly he was not comfortable in saying more about it or helping the rest of us out with just what went wrong during such an experience. But privately I have been getting e-mails from guys who are telling me unhappy things not only about the walker guy but also about another guy who was mentioned and it is clear, absolutely clear that these people who are replying to me privately are not comfortable or willing to post their comments in the public part of the forum! Now why should that be? Actually there should be no reason for anyone to hesitate doing so except for the retaliation we are getting from the escorts themselves and thats why I believe this entire site is flawed and seriously flawed. If i were to put out there the comments I have received privately about some of these escorts the shit would really hit the fan and we would have an escort-client free for all. I did, by the way, get very nice private notes from stacks, walker and even 8inch tool. all of them sent me respectful and kind notes back in spite of my making some disparaging remarks about a few of these guys (who, of course, i have not even met yet). I am certainly very gun shy now to meet up with some of the escorts discussed not only because they pushed right in with their own perspectives on things but more importantly because of comments made to me privately through my personal e-mail address by other clients on this site. I, unfortunately, do not see any easy solution for this problem though because it is obvious that management does not want to change the way things have been happening.

[buckguy]

And how would you police the forum to keep out escorts? A chronic problem on bulletin boards is duplicate identities (it's happened here with escorts and with clients) and there always are going to be "shills" for escorts, as well as those who make ad hominem attacks on them.

 

I'm sure some people are reluctant to post. I'm less concerned with what the escorts think than dealing with the "Heathers" (i.e., devoted fans) who can fill-up a thread. This has happened from time to time in the past. OTOH, this apparent social pressure didn't stop someone from noting a fairly obvious problem with Walker's advertising (the decade old pics), which many people (myself included) would see as a red flag. For the record--I hired Walker once. It was 7-8 years ago. It was an okay experience, but I doubt that it has any bearing on the kind of service he provides now, pro or con.

 

The fact of the matter is, you are receiving information which you wanted (from clients, now, as well as escorts), even if it isn't in the way that you wanted it.

[Bart]

My opinion would be just the oposite. Escorts are the ones who are at risk when rhey post. When an escort states an opinion in contridiction to a poster then run the risk of turning off potential clietns. Most only respond to factual questions. The battles on line between Rockhard and Tom Isern, Triple F and Doug69's dissection of Ben Nicholas are legendary.

 

The reason I feel that many other guys do not post is they are afraid of being belittled by other non-escort posters. Trying posting something negative about a very popular escort and you may not want to post again. Yes it is too bad that there is not more discussion but when you do state an opinion and have someone come back at you and tell you that your choices in escorts stink and belittle our opinions well not a good start.

 

Finally I personally do not hire escorts just for sex. I rarely do 1 hour and actually do 1/2 to several days. So I am looking for something different than you. I like the companionship as well as sex. Having escorts communicate on line allows me the opportunity to get to know who the escort is and how they handle situations. An escorts professionalism is never more on display then when a negative situation arises and how they respond is very important.

 

Thanks for your opinion I hope you will be open to honest dialog on this subject.

[+ newatthis]

RE: bad reviews, escort posts, et. al.

 

rr--

 

The place for reports about negative experiences is the same as the place for positive ones -- the reviews. Posts in this forum are really no help; they quickly scroll off the bottom of the screen and are never seen again.

 

The reluctance of clients to post negative reviews has been repeatedly discussed here; there are many causes, some of which you've hit on. I myself have been guilty of this. That's not likely to change.

 

I would argue that your question actually elicited a ton of useful information, both in the subsequent discussion and in the private messages you received detailing negative experiences that didn't make it to the reviews.

 

You also got to know some of the escorts better, which might help you to make a decision. I love reading posts by escorts (well, many of them, anyway :-)) -- over time, I get a good idea whether the personality on the other side of the computer screen is one that's going to be compatible with mine, which is crucial in whether a hire will be a good one for me (of course, there are other crucial factors as well).

 

There are also escorts whom I would never hire (wrong menu options or wrong physical type) who have a quirky sense of humor or provide valuable information or an unexpected perspective. I'd hate to lose their participation.

 

I agree with Bart -- it takes some courage for an escort to post here. Their business is at stake. I think the thoughtful, professional ones realize that their posts also have an upside -- they can attract clients who like their style and have the potential to become satisfied (and repeat?) customers.

[Mouth]

Roughrider,

 

This must be the third thread you've created about your alleged trip to San Francisco, and now you tell us you might not go!!!!! And still you go on and on and on about professional escorts being allowed access to this site.

 

For anyone who has had less than an ideal experience with a well-reviewed escort on this forum, there are lots more positive reviews. So if a few guys didn't find their expereince with Jake of San Francisco ideal, that is more than offset by the many who have posted positive things. As I'm sure you know, there is no one perfect escort to please absolutely everyone. Jason Markus must be one of the all-time best reveiwed escorts in New York. Certainly he's met someone who, for any number of reasons, found him lacking. So if you received private emails telling you their experience with Jake wasn't great and you decide those emails are true, pass him up. I'm sure he won't mind. I'm being redundant here because you seem to be stubbornly determined in your reasoning that escorrts not be allowed on this forum.

 

My advice is do your homework. Read the reviews carefully. If you come across someone who hasn't been reviewed, wait until they are reviewed. There are no guarantees here. In the many years I've been hiring escorts, there have been a few duds, but overall, my expereince has been far more than good. And I've certainly not had anything approaching an unplesant encounter.

 

Could we all move off of this subject now.

[roughrider]

i want to just mention that i received today a very warm and what i thought was a sincere reply from walker in sf telling me that there are a host of positive reviews about him under the daddy's reviews section. I, actually, being new to this whole thing did not know about finding those and having read some of them now can attest to the fact that they are extremely positive and quite at odds with some of the negative comments i received privately. I can see that the choice is not going to be as easy as i thought but i appreciated his directing me to those reviews.

[alanalt]

I have a few points to make in response to your comments:

 

1) I like this message board; I am not a frequent poster but I probably check in on average once a day to see what's going on and have been since around 2000/01 or so (more than a year before I joined up at least).

 

2) One of the big reasons I like this board is because several escorts (far too few, in my opinion) actively participate in this and the other forums on this board. They bring an interesting perspective to the whole question of escorting and often some valuable insights. Moreover, they are certainly no more rude/intimidating or stifling of debate than the non-escort posters, and usually, much much less so.

 

3) You mention that you were getting e-mails in private from members "that these people who are replying to me privately are not comfortable or willing to post their comments in the public part of the forum! Now why should that be?"

Well, for a start, I wonder did you ask them? Or did you reach the conclusion that it's "the retaliation we are getting from the escorts themselves" all by yourself?

 

4) I am one of those people who responded to you 'privately' on Jake Walker. I did so, because you asked me to elaborate on comments I had made on the thread you started. Unlike you, I will not speculate on why others responded to you privately, but I did so at your request and also because a further elaboration of my comments on this board would not have contributed much to the discussion at hand. It certainly was not out of intimidation of what Jake Walker or anyone else might think.

 

5) You have stated a belief that "this entire site is flawed and seriously flawed". That's a pretty substantial charge to make and I would like to see some fairly serious evidence to support it before taking it seriously. For starts, I'd like to see you point to (at least) several threads where clients have been 'intimidated' or 'retaliated upon' by escorts and how this has stifled debate on the issue at hand.

 

6) You also say "it is obvious that management does not want to change the way things have been happening." That indicates a certain misunderstanding of how communities exist but it's a charge that's been made before. The only comment I have to that is if 'management' dictates against the wishes of the community too much or too often, then people will pack up and leave to go elsewhere. And some have. But the fact that this message board continues to exist and be active provides ample evidence that the community here, by and large, (there are always exceptions) supports the way this board operates.

 

So far, all I've heard is the opinion (and I feel, groundless opinion) of someone who's just come to a community that's been in place for a decade now and has decided he doesn't like what he's found. And while we've gone through some shakeups, an ownership change, rules imposed on conduct, the exit (sometimes the repeated exits) of some long-time posters, a constant throughout the board has remained the participation of those escorts who choose to.

 

I see no need to apologize if this board isn't what you expected or hoped for. It's not always to my liking either. There have been some bitter feuds and often battle-lines have been drawn between fervent supporters of an escort and equally ferocious denouncers of said escort so that one sometimes feels that one is walking on eggshells. People form attachments and will defend/attack those attachments vigorously (often too vigorously) But my experience with message boards would indicate that this happens whether the subject of such 'discussions' is present/actively involved or not...

 

Finally, you have said "I am certainly very gun shy now to meet up with some of the escorts discussed not only because they pushed right in with their own perspectives on things but more importantly because of comments made to me privately through my personal e-mail address by other clients on this site". To be blunt, that's your problem, not mine or the other members of this board. Demanding that this board change because of your problem would seem to me to be the height of arrogance...

 

Alan

[alanalt]

>i want to just mention that i received today a very warm and

>what i thought was a sincere reply from walker in sf telling

>me that there are a host of positive reviews about him under

>the daddy's reviews section. I, actually, being new to this

>whole thing did not know about finding those and having read

>some of them now can attest to the fact that they are

>extremely positive and quite at odds with some of the negative

>comments i received privately. I can see that the choice is

>not going to be as easy as i thought but i appreciated his

>directing me to those reviews.

 

You know, this is the second time, you've confessed that you're new here and that there are whole aspects to the site that you haven't discovered...

 

Maybe you might want to do a bit more research and take a little time before saying things like "I believe this entire site is flawed and seriously flawed"?

 

Just a thought...

 

Alan

[Bart]

Oh I am sorry for the poor spelling this morning. My brain and fingers were on different wave lengths this morning.

 

Deej could you mention as an improvement to the forum and review sections adding a spell check feature. It is distracting to read numerous errors like I did this morning, except for VM. I am one those that like his mistakes.

[Guest zipperzone]

Well said, Alan. Someone had to put him in his place, so good on you!

 

He seems to be a shining example of the "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME" generation.

[alanalt]

Thanks, I think...

 

But it's not about putting anyone in their place, it's about asking (ok, maybe challenging ) someone to back up their complaints with some facts. Having someone new come in and offer sweeping criticisms is not the most congenial of entrances, but I'm willing to admit that a new point-of-view can sometimes be valuable. But when that person clearly demonstrates a fundamental lack of knowledge about what s/he is talking about, I confess I can get a little cranky about the whole thing... }(

[roughrider]

Actually you are more than a little cranky about the whole thing and you refuse to recognize what i am saying here. The fact that i am getting notes from the escort stacks telling me that the escort walker is a 'nice guy' and i should be lucky to be with him is just bull shit and should not be allowed on this board. Stacks goes on to say that the two of them have even played together so then how valuable is this information? The answer is that it is worthless and can be entirely discounted. But hey if you (and others) find this kind of banter from the escorts themselves to be of value then go for it.

[ted]

I think the best use of this site comes over time, which probably doesn't help you that much. I've been here since probably a month after Hooboy founded the original. Within a few months it became clear who among the reviewers had similar tastes to mine. There are a lot who are looking for things which don't interest me. Once you've ID'd the reviewers with similar taste, their positive(and negative) reviews are of particular interest in choosing. Most of my reviews are gone, and it seems like not as many are being posted, but do your homework and go have fun with those available. And we certainly would like more escorts to post here, not less.

[Guest PWIT]

Actually, I find it quite valuable. I have benefited from the advice of escorts regarding other escorts in the past.

[jackhammer91406]

This is just my perspective, but I think you got good feedback from the poster. I think his response showed he had read what you had written and understood it. Perhaps you see no value in another escort giving a good remark about the escort you were considering. So take it for what it is worth...an opinion...just like what you have written...YOUR opinion/ Take it for that and move on to the next thing.

As one who has been here for a while, I have found much of value and I have learned which escort try to blow smoke and which don't . Beware of painting with too wide a brush. some of the escorts provide valuable insight as well as humor.

[Lookin]

I participate in a few message boards, escort and financial, and the censorship issue comes up pretty regularly. I’ve always figured that it’s up to me to weed through peoples’ comments, figure out which ones make sense and which ones don’t, and then make my own decisions. I feel that I benefit from more points of view, rather than fewer. But in the end, whether it’s a stock or an escort, I’m the one responsible for what I choose to do.

 

I’m fortunate to have met Steve Stacks a few times, and he’s a person whose opinions I value. And you may feel that his information “is worthless and can be entirely discounted”. So you’ll make one decision, and I may make another. At least we’ve each had the opportunity to consider lots of different input, and make our own choices.

 

Seems fair to me, no?

 

 

Full disclosure: Knock on wood, while I haven't been screwed on all my stock choices the past couple of years, I can't say the same about all my escort choices.

[buckguy]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one he's solicited for information. In my case it was in response to a bystanderish crack I made about wealth of available info about Benjamin Nicholas, whom rr seemed to find interesting. He still uses the "I'm new" schtick and claims he couldn't find anything using the "search" (I found quite the opposite). Clearly there's some fishing going on, if not some effort to get attention or stir the pot here.

[alanalt]

>The fact that i am getting notes from the escort stacks telling me

>that the escort walker is a 'nice guy' and i should be lucky

>to be with him is just bull shit and should not be allowed on

>this board.

 

And who are you to determine what another poster, escort or not, should be allowed to post on this board?

[Guest ncm2169]

If it isn't obvious by now, our new RR seems to be engaging us in an attention-getting exercise, wherein we all feed his ego by answering his endless and mindless questions. x(

 

Go ahead if you will, but I'm not wasting my time on the loser. There are plenty of new posters who are happy to learn how to use this site and who can settle in comfortably here. :*

 

I'm certainly not an old-timer here, but I can spot a trouble-maker when I see one. :-(

 

RR, get with the program, or go back from whence you came. :7

[seaboy4hire]

>I'm certainly not an old-timer here, but I can spot a

>trouble-maker when I see one. :-(

 

With 2242 posts and a the year was 2002 when you joined you aren't a spring chick

 

Hugs,

Greg

seaboy4hire@yahoo.com

http://seaboy4hire.tripod.com http://www.daddysreviews.com/newest.php?who=greg_seattle

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6707/lebec084a9ad147f620acd5ps8.jpg

[Guest n2colour]

With all due respect, if you do not like the way this website is operated, you are free to start your own. The business model here was successful for a number of years before your arrival and will probably be successful for many years after your departure.

[Mouth]

Alan,

 

You're absolutely correct. How can someone criticize this site when they are still in the midst of figuring out how it works and what's on it before we're subjected to his grand opinions. Oops, he did it again!