Vincent Michael - San Antonio

[+ Hoover42]

Hmmm, picture number 2 is the only one of the collection that I actually like.

 

...Hoover

[+ Hoover42]

Hmmm, picture number 2 is the only one of the collection that I actually like.

 

...Hoover

[Boston Guy]

HB:

 

I don't have an "axe to grind" with VM. I don't know him, haven't hired him and certainly never will -- even though I think he's an attractive-looking guy. Further, I believe strongly in the power of forgiveness, which you and Chuck50 evidently admirably possess.

 

But I also think that character is important in the people we choose to deal with as we go through our lives. How big a role it plays depends on the role of the other person, I suppose, and it interacts with competence.

 

If I were choosing heart surgeons for my mother, I'd almost certainly hire a world-renowed surgeon who cheats on his wife over a guy who possesses terrific moral fiber but, unfortunately, less skill with a scalpel. On the other hand, when choosing an escort, character matters to me a great deal, especially as it interacts with the escort's ability to be discreet -- now and into the future. I'd rather have a somewhat less exciting encounter with a guy who will carry my personal details to the grave than an earth-shattering time with a guy who will then spill his guts about it on the Internet. But that's just me; others may well choose the earth-shattering encounter and disregard the concerns about discretion.

 

The funny thing about character, though, is that it doesn't change very much. Yes, we can learn from our mistakes and most of us do from time to time. But the kind of ugly posts that VM made were not just a "mistake". To me, they showed a side of his character or the way he views his clients that I think is unlikely to change much over time.

 

Will he out all of his future clients on the Internet? Probably not. But he'll probably retire again, sooner or later, at least once. And who's to say that once he's retired again and doesn't care what his clients think about him any more that he won't do another public post about one or more clients?

 

There are lots of hot escorts in the US. Why hire someone who you so patently cannot trust? I see trust as being like a bank account. When you get to know someone, there's some kind of positive balance to start, because we presume people are trustworthy, at least on some level. That balance will grow or diminish over time. For me, the only way VM could ever get back to a position of trust would be to spend years escorting without revealing any information whatsoever about his clients. A simple "I made a mistake" just doesn't cut it -- for me.

 

So, while I have no axe to grind, I feel it quite in keeping with M4M's raison d'etre to warn future clients that VM is one of the very few escorts ever to show up here who has publicly revealed information about his clients, especially in such a spectacularly public manner.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

HB:

 

I don't have an "axe to grind" with VM. I don't know him, haven't hired him and certainly never will -- even though I think he's an attractive-looking guy. Further, I believe strongly in the power of forgiveness, which you and Chuck50 evidently admirably possess.

 

But I also think that character is important in the people we choose to deal with as we go through our lives. How big a role it plays depends on the role of the other person, I suppose, and it interacts with competence.

 

If I were choosing heart surgeons for my mother, I'd almost certainly hire a world-renowed surgeon who cheats on his wife over a guy who possesses terrific moral fiber but, unfortunately, less skill with a scalpel. On the other hand, when choosing an escort, character matters to me a great deal, especially as it interacts with the escort's ability to be discreet -- now and into the future. I'd rather have a somewhat less exciting encounter with a guy who will carry my personal details to the grave than an earth-shattering time with a guy who will then spill his guts about it on the Internet. But that's just me; others may well choose the earth-shattering encounter and disregard the concerns about discretion.

 

The funny thing about character, though, is that it doesn't change very much. Yes, we can learn from our mistakes and most of us do from time to time. But the kind of ugly posts that VM made were not just a "mistake". To me, they showed a side of his character or the way he views his clients that I think is unlikely to change much over time.

 

Will he out all of his future clients on the Internet? Probably not. But he'll probably retire again, sooner or later, at least once. And who's to say that once he's retired again and doesn't care what his clients think about him any more that he won't do another public post about one or more clients?

 

There are lots of hot escorts in the US. Why hire someone who you so patently cannot trust? I see trust as being like a bank account. When you get to know someone, there's some kind of positive balance to start, because we presume people are trustworthy, at least on some level. That balance will grow or diminish over time. For me, the only way VM could ever get back to a position of trust would be to spend years escorting without revealing any information whatsoever about his clients. A simple "I made a mistake" just doesn't cut it -- for me.

 

So, while I have no axe to grind, I feel it quite in keeping with M4M's raison d'etre to warn future clients that VM is one of the very few escorts ever to show up here who has publicly revealed information about his clients, especially in such a spectacularly public manner.

 

BG

[+ deej]

BG, I see where you're coming from. I wonder, though, if you see where you're going. :-)

 

You're setting up a scenario where NO escort can be trusted, because they might retire and spill the beans some day. And you know what? That's exactly the scenario we ALL live with every day! There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort will keep his mouth shut.

[+ deej]

BG, I see where you're coming from. I wonder, though, if you see where you're going. :-)

 

You're setting up a scenario where NO escort can be trusted, because they might retire and spill the beans some day. And you know what? That's exactly the scenario we ALL live with every day! There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort will keep his mouth shut.

[+ ArVaGuy]

There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort

>will keep his mouth shut.

 

And vice versa. There have been incidents where clients have revealed personal information about escorts.

 

Confidentiality should be a mutual expectation and responsibility.

[+ ArVaGuy]

There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort

>will keep his mouth shut.

 

And vice versa. There have been incidents where clients have revealed personal information about escorts.

 

Confidentiality should be a mutual expectation and responsibility.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Trust

 

I thought BG's scenario was based on the fact that this escort had already once betrayed the trust. You are expanding the scenario beyond what I think he intended it to be.

[KY_TOP]

Very well said and I have to agree with you on this one.

[KY_TOP]

>You're setting up a scenario where NO escort can be trusted,

>because they might retire and spill the beans some day. And

>you know what? That's exactly the scenario we ALL live with

>every day! There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort

>will keep his mouth shut.

 

True, just think about the American Idol star that the escort/porn star betrayed and is now riding it for his 15 minutes of fame.

[Boston Guy]

>BG, I see where you're coming from. I wonder, though, if you

>see where you're going. :-)

>

>You're setting up a scenario where NO escort can be trusted,

>because they might retire and spill the beans some day. And

>you know what? That's exactly the scenario we ALL live with

>every day! There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort

>will keep his mouth shut.

 

Deej,

 

Sorry for the confusion. In my ealier, admittedly-weak analogy of a bank account, I said that everyone starts with a positive balance. I quickly confide personal information to escorts I meet (i.e., my name, where I live) with the expectation that they will respect my confidence and preserve the confidentiality of the information I have provided to them. To date, I know of no example to the contrary. As noted above, I think escorts have the same expectation of privacy when it comes to information they share with clients.

 

The situation is different here, though, since VM broke this bond of confidence and did it in a way that was horribly public. So we're not dealing with a hypothetical; instead, we're merely reporting on something that has already happened and doing so as a warning to future clients.

 

If someone still decides to hire VM, more power to them both. We're all adults here and adults get to make these kinds of decisions for themselves.

 

BG

[+ deej]

RE: Trust

 

You can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

[+ deej]

Or the escort that named a former SURVIVOR "star" in his blog.

 

This could easily become a witch hunt on the entire profession.

[+ deej]

>The situation is different here, though, since VM broke this

>bond of confidence and did it in a way that was horribly

>public.

 

So what's to stop someone else from doing it tomorrow? There are blogs popping up every day.

 

Where do you decide to place your trust? There is no good answer here. I sure as hell don't have one! ;-)

 

>If someone still decides to hire VM, more power to them both.

>We're all adults here and adults get to make these kinds of

>decisions for themselves.

 

Ayup. And you could say the same about ANY other escort. The only difference is that it hasn't happened YET. This board has been a steady parade of public meltdowns for over 5 years. Who's next?

[Boston Guy]

Well, I'm an optimist. :-)

 

I do trust most people, easily and quickly. Most of the time, my trust is rewarded with responsible behavior on the part of the person I place my trust in and I certainly do maintain those trusts that are entrusted to me.

 

When someone shows me definitively that they are not to be trusted, I choose not to trust them; however, I do not then also refuse to trust the rest of the human race. :-)

 

BG

[Guest zipperzone]

>BG, I see where you're coming from. I wonder, though, if you

>see where you're going. :-)

>

>You're setting up a scenario where NO escort can be trusted,

>because they might retire and spill the beans some day. And

>you know what? That's exactly the scenario we ALL live with

>every day! There isn't a single damn guarantee that ANY escort

>will keep his mouth shut.

 

And you have just made the case for NEVER letting an escort know enough about you personally to do harm to you.

 

Generally speaking (not always, but usually) an escort has much less to loose if he is outed. The client, on the other hand, could loose his marriage (hence his house - as wives are known for being "good housekeepers"), his job, his financial everything - his life.

 

Too big a risk to take IMO. As trustworthy as an escort may seem today, you can never be sure what he will be down the road, should his circumstances change.

[+ deej]

>And you have just made the case for NEVER letting an escort

>know enough about you personally to do harm to you.

 

Oy, there's the danger.

 

When does personal protection become so onerous that you can't enjoy the appointment?

 

I'm neither an optimist (glass half full) nor pessimist (glass half empty). I'm an engineer (wrong-sized glass).

 

I'm just a "never say never" kinda guy. And, of course, I'm the first guy to say "never". ;-) It's a subject to be dealt with gingerly and with open hailing frequencies. As soon as you close off one hailing frequency, you close off something that's potentially beneficial.

[Guest zipperzone]

>>And you have just made the case for NEVER letting an escort

>>know enough about you personally to do harm to you.

>

>Oy, there's the danger.

>

>When does personal protection become so onerous that you can't

>enjoy the appointment?

>

>I'm neither an optimist (glass half full) nor pessimist (glass

>half empty). I'm an engineer (wrong-sized glass).

>

>I'm just a "never say never" kinda guy. And, of course, I'm

>the first guy to say "never". ;-) It's a subject to be dealt

>with gingerly and with open hailing frequencies. As soon as

>you close off one hailing frequency, you close off something

>that's potentially beneficial.

 

Huh? Are you sure you're not a member of little Tommy C's church?

[alanalt]

Which brings us back to doh...

 

>The definition of the Deli is:

>An area to discuss Escorts. That is what we do on this forum.

>However, I had very narrowly defined the discussion for

>Vincent Michael by asking for specific information on good

>news about him. If you have some, share it; if you don't,

>don't. If you want to discuss something else or create a

>brouhaha, why not start your own topic?

>

I don't need to start my own topic to "start a brouhaha", there's quite enough of that going around here without me having to add my efforts ;-)

 

And thank you for sharing your definition of the Deli, in my 4+ years as a member (and longer as a lurker), I think I have a fairly good handle on what this site, board and forum are for... x(

 

But again, you're avoiding my question of 'what's the point'? Because if you've already made up your mind that you like VM and that you only wish to hear 'good news' about him, we're not talking 'discussion' here, we're talking 'propaganda' or 'promotion' and there are dozens of sites out there that deal with escort promotion. But this site was created to share information about escorts (both the bad and the good) openly, honestly and with integrity, and so I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ask...

 

As for VM, I enjoyed his 'early' posts here, was saddened when he decided to reveal personal info and attack others (escorts and clients), and have noted his later apologies for those actions. I also hope that now he's making a comeback, that he will contribute once again to the various discussions on this board. And while I don't have him down on my 'consideration to hire list' that has more to do with lack of geographical proximity then anything else at this point. But if that were to change, while I'd also be interested in news on VM's recent activities, I'd be interested in all news, good, bad or indifferent... But, of course, that's just my view. :-)

[Like2Hire]

Has anyone been with Vincent Michael since this recent comeback? I'm seriously considering hiring him based on his previous reviews but I'm wondering if he still looks as good and is as good in bed as his posted reviews indicate.

 

Anyone have some current experiences to share??

[buckguy]

VM appears to have gone out of business. I tried to set something up with him when I was in San Antonio at the beginning of this month and nothing came of it despite having scheduled and then rescheduled (claiming confusion about the day, but in an illogical way--thinking Thursday was Wednesday and tomorrow/Friday was Saturday. I'm sure I'll get flamed for even considering this---what VM did was wrong, even if some of the info had previously been disclosed publicly. I'm afraid my curiosity about him outweighed that--plus, the selection in SA sucks. When guys leave the biz, they usually disapper from the board--it certainly prevents the temptation to do as VM did.

 

My guess is that he has been ambivalent about getting back into the business. Perhaps this thread had something to do with that, but he shouldn't have expected roses and champagne. Not the "good news" that was requested.

 

I would have posted sooner, but I was curious if he would stay in business much longer. He's been in & out 3 or 4 times, I wonder if he'll "give it a go" once again.

[djroth]

> the selection in SA sucks.

 

 

Well, of course, but that's definitely not all they do! :9