NOW ON RENTBOY - 250 + 180 + 200 +

[Guest empire]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>

>Again. I don't agree with the method but you can go with what

>has apparently worked for you. All I'm saying is that if

>someone has a POSTED RATE it is NOT up to you to insist on a

>negotiation.

>

>See the differentiation I have made between your hypothetical

>and mine? In mine we're talking about an escort with a posted

>rate or having already asked for a rate established by the

>escort. In yours you are meeting someone and asking if "x

>amount" is sufficient.

 

I don't feel it's up to you to decide how a client handles his end of the escorts financial arrangement. If a client politely asks an escort if he is willing to accept less than his posted rate for an appointment there is absolutely nothing wrong about that, all the escort has to say is no. I will suggest a lower fee if I feel the escort's fee is more than I'm willing to pay. I have only been turned down once in countless encounters. Just as often an escort will ask me what I'm willing to pay if I don't accept his posted fee. We usually come to a happy agreement.

 

You simply cannot accept the fact that your views on this topic are an over-reaction to your own lack of self worth. You continually insult us, try to suffocate this civil discussion and twist words around to fit your opinion. Your other two peers stated their feelings and moved on for now, you can't seem to do this. I've notice this in many threads you post in. I sincerely believe you might want to explore the reason why you have such insecurities. Why everyone must see things your way, why you must always have the last word.

 

Escort rates are set by the escort. The escort's business is determined ONLY by the client. There is no if ands or buts about that FACT.

[Quincy]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>Well, sorry if my reply sounded "a bit arrogant" to you, only

>people who have met me know that I'm not.

 

I beg to differ. Having met you, I think arrogant was the correct word to use!

[SAdler]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>I don't feel it's up to you to decide how a client handles his

>end of the escorts financial arrangement. If a client politely

>asks an escort if he is willing to accept less than his posted

>rate for an appointment there is absolutely nothing wrong

>about that, all the escort has to say is no. I will suggest a

>lower fee if I feel the escort's fee is more than I'm willing

>to pay. I have only been turned down once in countless

>encounters. Just as often an escort will ask me what I'm

>willing to pay if I don't accept his posted fee. We usually

>come to a happy agreement.

 

You have to understand that FROM AN ESCORT'S point of view that most of the time bargaining comes across as an INSULT. I dont see why that's being debated considering between the two of us arguing I think I am the one that has the leg to stand on. An escort may not have TOLD you how they felt after you attempted to bargain but it doesn't mean you can read their mind.

 

But in your latter sugestion you say an escort asks you what you will pay. Fine, why can't you wait for that instead of risking insulting someone?

 

>You simply cannot accept the fact that your views on this

>topic are an over-reaction to your own lack of self worth.

 

WOW. Those are some pretty strong words? Where did you get your degree in psychology? I love how in these threads I've been accused of having an overly high self worth and now a lack of self worth. Can you boys please come to one PROFESSIONAL opinon and stick to it?

 

>You

>continually insult us, try to suffocate this civil discussion

>and twist words around to fit your opinion.

 

My turn to ask for examples of insults ... feel free.

 

>Your other two

>peers stated their feelings and moved on for now, you can't

>seem to do this. I've notice this in many threads you post in.

>I sincerely believe you might want to explore the reason why

>you have such insecurities.

 

They've made their opinions known and left because they don't want to argue. I happen to enjoy it. Call it a character flaw but I feel that when there is a discussion to be had I'll have it. If someone questions my merits I'll respond with fact. If I don't believe in the merits of someone's opinions I have a right to question them as they can do the same to me.

 

>Why everyone must see things your

>way, why you must always have the last word.

 

Thus mustn't I'm a Leo, thus I must.

 

>Escort rates are set by the escort. The escort's business is

>determined ONLY by the client. There is no if ands or buts

>about that FACT.

 

However my dear, you are assuming there is only ONE client. The opinions you claim I am quashing are supposedly that of all clients when they are apparently only a few. Since I am only debating a few client opinions, perhaps it should be considered there are a bunch of OTHER clients. There ARE no ifs, ands, or buts about THAT fact.

[Funseeker 22]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

Scott & Big Guy,

Time to get a room and thrash this out.

Loser picks up the tab at the next Hooville Meeting !. :)

[SAdler]

I have just been informed that I wasn't respecting the English language by using the word disrespect since apparently said word is not used in correct context.

 

Thus -- I apologize for the misusage of the word and ask that in all instances where I used the word it be read "does not respect" or something to that degree

 

Despite the fact that Microsoft Word approves the word in their dictionary....

[+ Lucky]

Yadda Yadda Yadda...you just don't give up, do you Scott? You talk about how others just don't get it, and then you make it abundantly clear that you don't get it! Your combativeness here makes me rethink that incident in New York you wrote about...just how far did you escalate the situation with your own combativeness until it got out of hand?

[SAdler]

>Yadda Yadda Yadda...you just don't give up, do you Scott? You

>talk about how others just don't get it, and then you make it

>abundantly clear that you don't get it! Your combativeness

>here makes me rethink that incident in New York you wrote

>about...just how far did you escalate the situation with your

>own combativeness until it got out of hand?

 

My combativeness is my own perogative. Stupid as it may be, I dfo it because it amuses me. As to the incident in New York; gee, lets just go for a jugular attack why don't we. How on earth could my combativeness even be relevant to the fact that he opted to decide he wasnt going to pay me and that it went from there.

 

Of course Dr. Spin -- I can't wait to see your next move on this.

 

P.S. Why make a reply to my innocent commentary of proper usage of the English language. At least make your attacks relevant.

[+ Lucky]

"At least make your attacks relevant"

 

Objection sustained, counselor. The old geezer is hereby directed to refrain from irrelevant posts! Scott, I can't wait to see you in court. The poor judge, though, had better be bald because you'd have him tearing his hair out!

 

So here's the deal: I theorize that, due to your refusal to ever concede an argument, the guy in New York just simply got so exasperated with you that he did what would really get your attention...refuse your fee, which obviously is of great import to you. Your combative reaction to that undoubtedly escalated the situation to the point that only the police could extricate you from it. That's my theory of the case, at least for the moment!

[Guest empire]

>

>My combativeness is my own perogative. Stupid as it may be, I

>dfo it because it amuses me.

 

The fact that it "amuses" you is a reflection of a much larger issue that you need to address. I believe you're based in Los Angeles, if so I recommend the services of this professional: http://andersonservices.com If you're not based in the Los Angeles area I'll try to locate another provider in your town.

[SAdler]

>So here's the deal: I theorize that, due to your refusal to

>ever concede an argument, the guy in New York just simply got

>so exasperated with you that he did what would really get your

>attention...refuse your fee, which obviously is of great

>import to you. Your combative reaction to that undoubtedly

>escalated the situation to the point that only the police

>could extricate you from it. That's my theory of the case, at

>least for the moment!

 

Interesting theory ... counselor ... could you explain what could have possibly arisen in a weekend appointment that would have led to combativeness that someone would refuse a fee and then magically create a party involving his friends. I pride myself on being professional and pleasant in all of my encounters as my reviews have proven. This is someone I've been seeing for two years.

 

I'd say there are a few holes in your thoughts. But keep on spinning.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Courtroom Shenanigans

 

"could you explain what could have possibly arisen in a weekend appointment that would have led to combativeness..."

 

Well, yes. Perhaps your fee was itself a source of bickering and you responded much as you have here. Or perhaps he was making a point about escort fees in general and you personalized it. A whole weekend of that could easily have driven the guy to the point where he just had to do something to get your attention off of your stubbornness. He just didn't realize how ballistic that could make you!

And why shouldn't he have a party? He had a top LA escort to show off to his friends!!!

[SAdler]

RE: Courtroom Shenanigans

 

::Yawn:: Pookie.

 

The only situation in which that would work out is if I didn't discuss my fee with him in advance and you can sure as hell bet (since you're making money to be my only motivation) that I had my rate discussed long before tickets were bought.

 

Of course then again, you've completely tripped over yourself in your first insinuation when you indicated a theory in which you assumed that the party never happened. Which theory are you going to pursue?

 

Are you specializing in bird calls now? Have you figured out how to communicate with birds of prey?

[+ Lucky]

RE: Courtroom Shenanigans

 

Honey, you are the only bird I cannot communicate with:

 

http://www.ns.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/loons/images/big.gif

[SAdler]

RE: Courtroom Shenanigans

 

::wooooooooooosh::

 

right over your head

[Guest alanm]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>>I don't feel it's up to you to decide how a client handles

>his

>>end of the escorts financial arrangement. If a client

>politely

>>asks an escort if he is willing to accept less than his

>posted

>>rate for an appointment there is absolutely nothing wrong

>>about that, all the escort has to say is no. I will suggest

>a

>>lower fee if I feel the escort's fee is more than I'm

>willing

>>to pay. I have only been turned down once in countless

>>encounters. Just as often an escort will ask me what I'm

>>willing to pay if I don't accept his posted fee. We usually

>>come to a happy agreement.

 

 

I was waiting for this subject to come up; it appears in every thread about escort prices. Have you ever gotten to know an escort well enough to know how he really feels about constant requests to bargain rates?

 

The two whom I know say that they find it insulting. One refuses to negotiate with anyone but regular clients, no matter what the circumstances. It would be interesting to know how all those who have posted in this thread would react to regular requests to negotiate their own salaries or fee down.

[Boston Guy]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>It would be interesting to know

>how all those who have posted in this thread would react to

>regular requests to negotiate their own salaries or fee down.

>

 

In my businesses, we constantly negotiate the terms of contracts and proposals, including the rates charged for both products and services. Anyone who approaches this kind of negotiation with the feeling that it is insulting is, frankly, an amateur.

 

Escorts like to be thought of as professionals. Well, there's a bunch of baggage that comes with that word, including a responsibiity to act professionally. If a professional works for a large company, he or she may simply work for a salary. But certainly most professionals who are self-practioners are used to proposing terms and rates for services knowing full well in advance that those are likely to be negotiated. They also understand that such negotiations are seldom insulting and often open the door to real opportunity. Professionals do well to keep firmly in mind that they are engaged in a business proposition, rather than a personal one, even when the services being negotiated for will then be provided directly by the professional.

 

Acting like a professional is not simply a one-way street. It includes treating your client with the same kind of respect as you yourself want. In fact, I would argue that professionals have a responsiblity to treat their clients with far more respect and duty than they themselves may be offered in return.

 

An architect who accepts a contract to build a building cannot then decide to use substandard materials because he was insulted by the terms of the deal. A surgeon who agrees to operate on a patient cannot treat the surgery casually, no matter how offensive the patient. A lawyer must defend each client in accordance with professional standards, even if he thinks the client is a scumbag -- and even if he is being paid substandard wages by the state to represent the client. To act in any other manner is to act unprofessionally.

 

The difference with young escorts, of course, is that they have had neither the kind of professional training that would teach this kind of rigor nor the years of life experience by which it can be learned on one's own.

 

Removing the sense of "self" from the business negotiations would free escorts to look behind the negotiation and ask the question "How can I best benefit from this?"

 

For example, to refer back to my prior response, a client who won't pay $400 for a one-hour session might pay $450 for two hours. The escort who becomes insulted at the first question will never discover this and may end up not working that day instead of earning more than his normal hourly rate for what might be a small amount of additional work. Or the local client who asks about rates might not be willing to pay $300 per hour. But the escort who can enter into this kind of negotiation with an eye toward opportunity rather than feeling insulted in a childish manner may soon discover that the client is looking for someone to meet every Tuesday afternoon for a $500/two-hour session. Or perhaps the client has a group of friends who are all interested. Or who knows what? Most negotiations open doors to opportunity. Slamming those doors shut before they even open because of pique doesn't do the escort any good and may well prevent him from knowing about or taking advantage of opportunities that he might enjoy very much. He can always decline after hearing the offer -- and thinking it through carefully, with an eye on business instead of his injured sense of self-worth.

 

BG

[Epigonos]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

Right after I graduated from college I went to live in Latin America for two years. In that culture one bargained for just about everything from apples to oranges. I learned to do so effectively but hated every moment spent doing so.

Most of us who have or had nine to five jobs do not or did not negotiate our own salaries or our own benefits. Some of us are or were represented by unions which do or did that job for us.

When we go to buy anything from apples to oranges in a market we pay the marked price or we don't buy the item. I realize that there are some people who have occupations that allow or even encourage bargaining, however, I don't believe that includes the majority of the people in this country. I for one don't like bargaining and unless I am in an enviroment (Latin America, Africa or Asia) where it is required I refuse to do so.

I do not hire escort for one hour -- even the first time. I ask what their fee would be for lunch or dinner and a couple of hours of play time. If the price they quote is acceptable we set up something, if not I thank them for their time and wish them good luck. Only once, thus far, has the price been more that I was willing to pay. The escort seemed suprised and offered to discuss his fee. I did NOT respond, I do NOT bargain. I realize that to some my attitude may seem foolish BUT IT MAKES ME HAPPY and for me that is all that counts.

[VaHawk]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>Before I begin pointing out how idiotic your statements are I

>believe I need to establish something that will probably be

>over your head and is just a refresher for a great deal of

>posters (mainly my naysayers) on this concept:

 

>_________________

>

>con·text Pronunciation Key (kon'tekst) n.

>The part of a text or statement that surrounds a particular

>word or passage and determines its meaning.

>The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.

 

Now before I begin pointing out how obnoxious your statements are I need to establish something that will probably be over your head and is just a refresher for a great deal of posters (mainly those not into bullshit) on this concept:

 

ob·fus·cate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bf-skt, b-fskt)

tr.v. ob·fus·cat·ed, ob·fus·cat·ing, ob·fus·cates

To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand: “A great effort was made... to obscure or obfuscate the truth” (Robert Conquest).

 

 

 

>_________________

>

>>So, a "mere" 20 times of "flying you" in a 24 hour period,

>>doesn't qualify the "pilot" to a discount??? Well, no need

>to

>>reply to that query, as we all already know the answer,

>based

>>on that NYC thread of yours.

>

>I don't know where you get twenty times but you keep spinning

>whatever interpretations you need to in your head. Of course

>someone paying for a weekend or an overnight is getting a

>discount. Hell someone doing a session or dinner date is

>getting a discount. I think I would get a heart attack

>looking at the price tag of a weekend if they were charged

>hourly. I know it's difficult but try to use your bird brain

>to interpret information instead of looking at it for its face

>value.

 

From your own posting on the NYC disaster:

 

"As we were getting into the cab he asked me to remind him what he was paying me for the weekend throwing in the line “especially considering the good time I’ve shown you this weekend.” I will re-iterate that when I say a very sexual weekend thus far, I mean that this client must have taken three cialis before the weekend because by no exaggeration it never went down. I’ll be frank and say that due to his size and manner in bed I tend to have fun but from a working perspective, having sex with someone nearly twenty (again NOT an exaggeration) times in one day is not typical protocol for any meeting let alone a weekend for me at least."

 

Oh, well, you in turn keep "spinning" explanations, as it must explain why your brain is so dizzy that it can't remember what it directed it's tongue to say when and where.

 

>Don't feel smug thinking you hit a nerve, it just disgusts me how a "grown man" can be so amazingly childish and petty.

 

My intent was not to hit a nerve, but it does disgust me that a grown man, although young, who has had limited accomplishments, contributions and experiences in life, feels the need to whine and pout like a toddler and dismiss as petty and pathetic, everyone who doesn't pamper to his need to have everyone agree to what he thinks and wants, and to brand everyone who doesn't do so as disrespectful.

[Boston Guy]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>I realize that to some my attitude may seem foolish

>BUT IT MAKES MY HAPPY and for me that is all that counts.

 

Absolutely. You've found the secret of happiness and I commend you for that. I would never urge you to do otherwise.

 

On the other hand, were you a young escort, I would urge you think seriously about those things that might make a difference in or improve your business. Learning when and how to negotiate is an arrow that should be in every businessman's quivver.

 

I think it's telling that you describe it as "bargaining", rather than "negotiating" and I agree with you that this attitude is often linked to culture. Most Americans tend not to be familiar with negotiations and I suspect most would feel, as you do, that there is something unbecoming about it. Perhaps this explains the hurt feelings that some escorts feel when a client attempts to negotiate with them.

 

But good negotiations are not insulting to either party; on the contrary, good negotiations are necessarily respectful of each party and are often conducted with a real sense of humor toward the proceedings. Good negotiations are, in fact, often very enjoyable, even if at times stressful when the stakes are high. Then, of course, there are the master negotiators who negotiate with people without the other side sometimes even realizing that there was a negotiation going on... but that's another story. :-)

 

Someone who dislikes "bargaining" may see it as an attempt to simply pay less for something. While that might often be the reason for the start of the negotiations, a good negotiation might well end up with the original party paying the other party even more than the original asking price, for a somewhat different combination of goods and services. So negotiations, even ones that start with price as the subject of conversation, do not need to end there.

 

Someone who understands negotiation knows that it is an attempt to negotiate an agreement between two or more parties that respects what each is bringing to the table and leaves everyone more or less satisfied. I say "more or less" because every negotiation cannot end with every party getting everything they want. Often no one gets everything they want. But if all the parties are satisfied, then the negotiation is a success.

 

I want to reiterate what I said above: you've found an approach that works for you and makes you happy. That's worthy of respect and you've got mine.

 

BG

[VaHawk]

RE: Courtroom Shenanigans

 

Woooosh! Don't you mean "it" went over your head, or are you saying that the only things that "go" over your head are your legs??? :7

[+ Lucky]

RE: Crazy

 

That pretty bird is a loon, btw.

[Guest alanm]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

>The difference with young escorts, of course, is that they

>have had neither the kind of professional training that would

>teach this kind of rigor nor the years of life experience by

>which it can be learned on one's own.

 

You have posted many times over the years on this subject, always with the same blind spot. The man whom I referred to has been escorting since 1999. He is in his early-mid 30s and has had plenty of life experience. He charges a competitive rate in the Philadelphia area, which he believes is fair. I agree. He is an excellent escort with great reviews.

When he got an increase in new clients asking to negotiate his rates down, he told me that it was time to just say no. (At that point, I had been hiring him off and on for three years, so know him well.)

 

With much respect, is it not insulting when you assume that anyone who disagrees with you is inexperienced?

[Boston Guy]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

I do not think that everyone who disagrees with me is inexperienced, nor have I stated that or meant to.

 

However, I was specifically discussing "young escorts". You assume that my comments are meant to apply generically to all escorts. I would not make that assumption.

 

In fact, I would expect older, more experienced escorts to act in a more "professional" manner. Note that when I say "older, more experienced", I mean both. Older escorts who are new to the field may well act in ways that are similar to younger escorts.

 

The standard of behavior I expect from someone in his 30s or 40s is often quite a bit different than what I would expect from someone in his 20s, just as I expect more from an experienced pro than a novice in most fields.

 

Finally, I can think of many instances in which I would refuse to negotiate something. There are many valid reasons why someone may choose not to, including the fact that they just don't want to. However, choosing not to negotiate because one has misguidedly interjected their own feelings of personal self-worth into a business negotiation or simply out of ignorance of how to negotiate simply shortchanges the person who refuses the negotiation, if for no other reason than they will never know what opportunity they just walked away from. Letting emotions guide a business negotiation is about as basic a mistake as you can make.

 

BG

[+ Tom Isern]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

Hey Dan,

 

Sorry I didn't see your response to my post earlier. To answer you: I did not ask him why he lost interest. But as long as you're raised the issue...

 

I generally feel that respecting my client's privacy means not calling them up unless they give me permission to or unless we develop a personal relationship. Just because a client has come to see me a few times doesn't give me the right to call and solicit further business. I may get a home phone number, the wife, a boyfriend, an answering machine listened to by who knows whom. But I'd be interested to hear from people here...

 

When IS it appropriate to call and ask that kind of question? If you (Mr. Client) stop seeing an escort, would you want that person calling and asking "why?"?? And escorts: What have you found to be the best methods of securing client feedback? I have my ways, of course, but I'm always eager to hear other strategies.

[bigguyinpasadena]

RE: Supply and Demand

 

Hi Tom,we have not met before-so I hope you do not mind me answering your question.

I do not mind follow up calls-as long as they are not just to "put the touch"on me.I often have fellas I have not seen for a while email or phone me for some advice or chit chat whicjh often turns into some sort of offer-I really don't mind that.

However,I would think that I am the exception to the rule here.I am out single and live by myself.Many of the fellas here have some restrictions in their lives that communications like the above would probably not be welcomed.

Now- if a fella calls me with a sob story and begging(which happens a lot quite frankly)then he goes on the never again list.

I have only had a few follow ups that were thank you-what can I do to make it better for you next time sort of things.Those boys get called whenever I can afford it-or am in their area.So yes-communication can help to build a bigger and stronger client base.It can also alienate the client from you altogether!

So good luck on the tightrope!