What's Up with Escort Rates??

[Guest alanm]

Back to the original topic: high escort rates. I believe that it's a mistake to limit your self to any specific amount, whether it be $150/$200, higher or lower. There are some escorts out there who are worth higher fees, perhaps not many but there sure are some. I look at all this as fun and adventure, so I am willingly to pay higher rates on occasion. So have fun BostonGuy, stick to your principles above all else and keep negotiating. You seem to enjoy that more than the time you spend with escorts.

[Boston Guy]

The Art of Negotiating :-)

 

>Please inform me if you ever give a short course on ‘The Art

>of Negotiating’ I'd love to take it, assuming we can

>negotiate rates. :-) Even if I never had occasion to use

>it, it sounds like the principles would apply to other

>aspects of life as well.

>

 

There's really nothing magical about negotiating; a lot of it boils down to simply being willing to listen to the other party or parties and trying to understand the negotiations from their point of view.

 

Experienced negotiators can often make quick work of even quite complex negotiations because they've learned the language of negotiation and also because they understand how the process works. Inexperienced negotiators often tend to dislike negotiations, fearing that they are going to get screwed in the process.

 

Some experienced negotiators really like negotiating with inexperienced negotiators, thinking (correctly, in some cases) that they'll be able to take advantage of them. But I tend to think that two people who are negotiating honestly and in good faith can almost always come up with a better deal for both parties than either one can do on their own. The trick is to try to find a solution that really does make both happy.

 

Negotiating really only comes into play when both parties can't have everything that they want; if they could, then they'd just agree and there would be no need to negotiate. Some of the things that I think are key to a good negotiation include:

 

[ul]

[li] Knowing what you want. When you go into a negotiation, be sure you know what it is you really want to walk away with and what things that you are willing to compromise on. For example, you might really want to get together with a particular escort for two hours and you might really want to pay no more than $350 for the two hours.

[li] Knowing what you can compromise on if you need to. In the above deal, you might be flexible on time and be willing to schedule the session at a time that is convenient for the escort or you might be willing to agree to exclude certain kinds of activities. Or you might be willing to buy him dinner.

[li] Respecting the other parties to the negotiation. Understand that they too have agendas and should and that there are certain things that they want to come away with. The goal is to make them happy, too.

[li] Not taking the negotiations personally. Taking it personally is a big mistake and often causes negotiators to get emotional and make mistakes, including walking away from deals that very well might have worked out well for them. Negotiations aren't personal. You are discussing whether or not a deal can be struck, not whether you are good people or bad people. One of the reasons that people hire negotiators is because the negotiators can go in and strike a deal without taking it personally.

[li] Trying to take too much. Understand what you want from the negotiations. Try to achieve a deal that gives you what you want but then be as generous as you can be in terms of what the other side is looking for. Good negotiations often lead to other good negotiations in the future. Even when a deal can't be struck, people will respect and remember negotiators who dealt with them in good faith. And who knows when you'll be sitting across the table from them again?

[li] Being honest. Certain kinds of negotiation call for information to be held fairly close to the vest. In these cases, the negotiators aren't able to divulge a great deal of information. But when providing information to the other side, for heaven's sake, be honest. Not being honest will kill a deal in its tracks and give you a reputation for negotiating in bad faith.

[li] Being willing to offer a deal. Some people are afraid to offer a deal, thinking of the old maxim "he who says a number first, loses." But that's nonsense. If you offer a deal that gives you everything that you want and the other party accepts it, you didn't lose; you won.

[li] Being satisfied with a good deal. Some people are never satisfied. But if you got a good deal and got most of what you wanted, don't drive yourself crazy wondering if you could have gotten a little more. Think of computer prices. At a given price point, you can constantly get a little more power than you could a little while ago. But if you are forever trying to get the best possible deal, you'll never buy a computer. Or, if you do, you'll always be unhappy. Concentrate instead on the good things you did get.

[li] Respecting your offers and your deal. If you make an offer, be willing to follow through if the other side accepts. And don't renege on a deal you've agreed to. If something happens that will cause this to happen, let the other parties know immediately so you can collectively see if something can be done.

[li] Communicating. This doesn't mean that you tell the other parties everything that's on your mind. But it does mean that you are willing to tell them honestly and openly what you want. You must be willing to listen to them -- really listen -- so you'll understand what they want. And be willing to listen very carefully to the offers and counteroffers as they go back and forth.

[li] Being patient. Inexperience negotiators become impatient quickly. Experienced negotiators know that sometimes you have to be able to take a break and come back later. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither are lots of good deals.

[li] Being willing to walk away from a bad deal. You go into a negotiation knowing what you want and what you're willing to give. If you can get close to that, consider accepting the deal. If you can't, shake hands and walk away. It isn't personal and it doesn't mean the other guy is a snake. You just couldn't strike a deal -- this time. Some deals aren't meant to happen. It's okay; the sun will still come up tomorrow.

[/ul]

 

With big deals, negotiations can go on for a long time. With something like a negotiation for an appointment with an escort, I wouldn't expect the process to be complicated. But the very same principles apply.

 

For example, let's take the illustration from above. You are in a city on business for four days. You want to get together for two hours with a particular escort and you don't want to pay more than $350.

 

You contact him and tell him that you're thinking about getting together with him and ask him what his rate is for two hours. He says $400.

 

At this point, you can thank him and walk away -- and, for some people, that might be the right thing to do. But you could say "Oh, shucks, that's a little over my budget. I was hoping not to spend more than $350." Now he knows what you want -- you want to get together for two hours and you want to spend $350. You don't know yet what he wants except that his nominal price for two hours is $400.

 

Perhaps business has been really slow for him and he thinks "this is ok and I really could use a quick $350." So he accepts and you're both happy.

 

But suppose he comes back and says "Sorry, I don't discount rates. My price is $400." You can walk away and perhaps that's the right course. Or you could say "I'm here for four days and I'm pretty flexible about timing. Would a meeting at $350 be of more interest to you if we could get together at any time that might be convenient for you, including the morning or the afternoon."

 

Perhaps he responds with "Well, I'm not sure that makes a lot of difference to me, but perhaps if we could meet late tomorrow morning and you could come here so I don't have to schlep across town to your fancy hotel." Now you know more about what he wants: he want's to maximize the use of his time for this deal.

 

Perhaps you decide that you're willing to spend the extra thirty minutes each way to get the deal you want. So you accept. Or perhaps you can't do that. You might counter-offer "Well, tomorrow morning would be okay for me, but I'm pretty tied to the hotel. How about if we got together tomorrow morning and then I bought you a nice lunch afterwards."

 

You see where this is going -- each party is trying to position a deal that is good for them without trying to screw the other person.

 

In this case, the escort has accepted the fact that the client has a budget and isn't trying to change the client's mind. That's part of respecting the people you are negotiating with, although there are times when you really do have to push to see if the other party has some wiggle room in their base principles. Similarly, you respect that you are offering the escort less than what he would normally want for this deal and you're trying to find something else that will make him happy with a deal.

 

You finally say, "Look, I'm a really easy-going guy and I'd love to meet you. I'm going to be coming back here every month for six months and, if this goes well, I'll call you every month. I'm in terrific shape, the morning works well for me and I'm not going to insist that you cum, because that's not critical to me. But I really only can pay $350. Do you think we can strike a deal here?"

 

What have you done? You've sweetened the pot: you've told him you're in good shape and that he doesn't have to cum, which means he might be able to take one or two more clients that day. But if you say this, first, it better be true and, second, you have to live up to your end of the bargain.

 

If he walks in and finds an 80-year old, 400 pound, extremely hairy guy with no teeth and a rank odor, he's going to have every right to feel angry with the negotiations.

 

So that's it: know what you want, know what you can give, respect the other person, don't take it personally, negotiate in good faith, be willing to walk away, be happy with your deals and communicate, communicate, communicate.

 

End of lesson 1.

 

:-)

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

:-)

 

On the contrary, good deals are only good deals if they bring you what you want -- which, in this case, means getting together with someone you want to.

 

But I think it's not correct to say that someone is worth "more than" a certain price as an absolute. Getting together with an escort has a certain value to each client and that depends very much on the client.

 

Two clients might very well look at the same escort very differently. The first client might be enthralled with the escort and be happy getting together with him even if it cost him $500 per hour. The other client might not find the escort attractive at all and not even be interested at $200 per hour. There is no one universal measure of appeal here; it's up to each client.

 

Each client is well-advised to know what they want and what they're willing to pay for it. But simply blindly paying the advertised rate is very often unnecessary and also doesn't necessarily lead to the best escort experiences.

 

It all boils down to a unique way of living our own lives. If your approach makes you happy, then don't change it. Like they say, nothing succeeds like success.

 

BG

[Guest JT]

>Please inform me if you ever give a short course on ‘The Art

>of Negotiating’

 

BG, Me too.

 

 

>I'd love to take it, assuming we can

>negotiate rates. :-)

 

Can we also negotiate the duration of the course? Would I pay less if it's a shorter course? Or if I take it by correspondence, would it be cheaper? And since TY said I've done good work in another thread, perhaps he would kindly pay for my tution fee? You see BG, my negotiation skills really SUCK!

 

 

>I’m sure you recall that I’m on record as not being a

>negotiator,

 

Same here! I sometimes bring the women in the family along to negotiate when I go shopping (because they're way much better than me)! But it's kind of hard to do that when I'm trying to hire escorts.

 

 

>My view is that if he is willing to make the

>offer then he should be happy about the deal and maintain a

>good attitude,

 

Good point.

 

 

>One of my points in starting this thread is not that there

>are $300 escorts but that so many unknown guys have the

>attitude that they belong in that league… and presumably

>they are getting some positive feedback in the way of

>customers.

 

I've come across some of those too. I guess they can charge whatever they want but if they don't have enough business, it may eventually dawn on them that they have to be more realistic and lower their fees.

 

 

>Makes me laugh and wonder too. My rule of thumb is three to

>five times the hourly rate depending on the hourly rate

>(three is a bargain and five is tops).

 

That's not fair. Now you're using my rule of thumb!

 

 

>My POV is that if

>having dinner, attending a show, and getting 6-8 hours or

>more of sleep is such heavy lifting then they are out of

>shape for the business they are in. Or they have lines of

>clients waiting to schedule and I didn’t know that I had

>mistakenly wondered into a line (there isn’t much for which

>I’ll stand in a line – personal quirk).

 

Perhaps an exception --- some clients won't let their escorts sleep and insist on an ALL-NIGHTER!

 

 

JT

[Boston Guy]

>You see BG, my negotiation skills

>really SUCK!

>

Sucking is good.

}>

 

BG

[Guest Kenny021]

I don’t mean to start that tangent again, but Nikko is a beautiful guy with a hot body and in the prime of his manly youth. He is on the high end, but if he’s not worth it, no one is. I realize that is exactly your point. Stick to your guns…don’t pay those prices…but you’re going to miss out on some of the very best.

 

"I realize that is exactly your point." Thank you for admitting that...you're correct.

As long as there are fans like you, there will be high prices. Sorry to disagree with you on missing out on the very best. Some of the very best don't gouge their clients....that's one of the reasons "they are some of the very best".

 

I really don't want this to end up in an endless debate about the "rates" issue...it's been done to death. Was only putting in my 2 cents worth (perhaps I should have said $200 worth, thereby making it more credible) ;-)

[Guest JT]

>>You see BG, my negotiation skills

>>really SUCK!

>>

> Sucking is good.

>}>

>

>BG

 

 

Wow BG, way to go! On behalf of the entire AWARDS committee (okay deej is not in it, it's just me!), I'd like to inform you that you've won the AWARD for having both the shortest and longest posts in the same thread!

 

 

JT

[Boston Guy]

>>>You see BG, my negotiation skills

>>>really SUCK!

>>>

>> Sucking is good.

>>}>

>>

>>BG

>

>

>Wow BG, way to go! On behalf of the entire AWARDS committee

>(okay deej is not in it, it's just me!), I'd like to inform

>you that you've won the AWARD for having both the shortest

>and longest posts in the same thread!

>

>

>JT

ROTFLMAO

BG:D

[ted]

Rate is not number one on my priority list. I choose based on personality, looks, and reviews first, location, then rate. That being said, the rate can discourage contact with someone who otherwise might be on the contact list. Only in NY or LA does the rate go over $200 in my book unless I really, really want to see the guy. I also have tipped a great guy who charged $150; I don't think I've ever tipped a $200 or $250 rate.

[+ Axiom2001]

BG, thanks for writing an extensive assessment to this question. Recently, (as recent as March 2001), I've engaged the services of escorts in NYC and SF primarily. The going rate was $200 to 250. In my knowing that my finances are limited (up to a point), I find these rates ample; they should NOT be higher. Normally I've tipped the escorts, even one or two whom I have found to be rather mediocre. (I guess that's the fool in me!)

 

One really hot escort in San Francisco whom I have seen for four times now charges $175 as his base rate; when I saw him for two hours the rate was an additional $100. I thought that reasonable and hired him.

 

I do wish that more escorts would consider the economic times of those of us who are not AFFLUENT and maintain rates that would provide us non-rich "sugardaddies" a chance to experience these men.

 

Right now I plan to be in Las Vegas, Chicago, NY, SF, and perhaps outside of the US all before the end of August of this year. As a "Hooboy" junkie-- I do want to meet some of the men in each of these places who have received "very hot" and fabulous reviews, but I ask myself: will I be able to afford to see four or five of these men in all of these places at $200 to $250 per hour per date? But, again, if these fees are exorbitant, we can always buy or rent those hot videos, e.g. IN GEAR or JACKED UP and use our little brown or blue bottles and/or puff on the pipe filled with that mellow--mellow stuff and enjoy the time. (As an aside, I've been with Lance Gear, the *******of IN GEAR, and men-- he is as hot as he's shown in his videos, if not more so! I do plan to see him again, for I want him to do to me as well as with me some of the things that he did in this video. His personality is a pure gem! Rates are affordable and reasonable) Hope I didn't sidetrack too much. Good adventures and satisfaction all...!!!

[+ Axiom2001]

>Hey TY,

>

>This topic promises to be a scorcher -- it's fascinating to

>me, looking at it from this side, because I charge fairly

>low rates by today's standards ($150/hour). Believe me, I

>often think about raising my fee, for the following reasons:

>

>* not sure I can maintain current high volume of business

>over the long run; higher rate = fewer clients "necessary"

>per week.

>* I've noticed that people who seem used to paying $200/hr

>or more will often go ahead and tip me $50 or more, plus

>just be more likely to go for "big ticket" items like

>overnights or longer dates with dinner, etc. So I wonder if

>I'd attract more of this type of client if I had higher

>rates.

>* to put that last point another way, am I being completely

>overlooked by the big spenders who associate quality with

>the higher price?

>

>on the other hand, some reasons I haven't yet had the nerve

>to hike my rates...

>

>* the reason I'm so busy may have at least partially to do

>with $150 being "the sweet spot" for a lot of guys. Would

>the dropoff be greater than the extra money gained per

>visit?

>* Rod Hagen's success notwithstanding, is there a glass

>ceiling for guys with only 6 inches? Do big spenders, even

>-- particularly, for my purposes -- big spenders who aren't

>size queens, just naturally feel like they should be getting

>an 8" cock, or at least a 7, with all that cash?

>* as the rates go up, is there a higher stake associated

>with particular outcomes; do I get more guys with long

>checklists of things that had damn well better happen in an

>hour? If so, do I want to deal with the added sense of

>pressure?

>* would my client base tend to become less diverse (and

>therefore less interesting) as the rates rose?

>

>Another reason not to hike just dropped away -- I've been

>saving money to move apartments because I figured

>(correctly, as it turned out) that being self-employed for

>less than a year would send a red flag to the property

>management people. I was able to assuage their concerns by

>offering to pay six months' rent up front. Which means I'm

>all taken care of for awhile and can afford to get more

>"experimental" in my pricing, if I decide to.

>

>On the other hand, I'd like to continuing escorting as long

>as I can. I was one of the escorts that got all pissy with

>Pickwick over in the "?s for Rod Hagen" threads, but I

>distinctly did NOT claim to have a real career prior to

>escorting. I spent a lot of time bogged down in the

>wayward-starving-artist-doing-unsatisfying-jobs syndrome.

>Yes, I always got promoted in the jobs, and ended up

>managing a lot of college graduates (admittedly not high

>achievers), and developed a lot of good intangible skills

>(which serve me well in escorting), but they weren't the

>kind of credentials that cover up for having no degree.

>(And all the things I'd want to get a degree are the kinds

>of fields that you can't make a living in...) What I'm

>saying is that I think compared to a lot of the other

>escorts I DO have a lot to lose by making a stupid pricing

>decision, or a bad marketing decision in general. I am in

>no hurry to get back to the world where I WAS a

>clockwatcher.

>

>So anyway, I'd love to hear anybody's feedback about some of

>the questions I raised above -- from clients in all the

>different spending ranges and from escorts in all the

>different pricing ranges. Not so much to get advice on

>whether I should raise my rates (though I'm sure I'll get

>plenty of that too), but to get a sense of how different

>people look at these issues.

[+ Axiom2001]

Devon,

 

Within the next two months, I would very much like to see you at your current rates. I liked what you presented in your message:your rates, although apparently low in the eyes of some, are reasonable; your rates will definitely engender a much more diverse clientele: if you raise them too drastically, you will more than likely see similar clients, the diversity will more than likely diminish.

 

With my income being impressive to some people, I cannot (at this time) spend as much as I'd truly like on the escorts that I want to see in the future. I would really like to see more but cannot afford it-- two to three per weekend.:-) :-) :-) :-)

[+ Axiom2001]

It seems like this topic has my brain-juices flowing. May I congratulate all of the men who wrote to this topic. All messages were succinct and candid; there were no "tongue in cheek" comments, no bitchiness, no bantering, no idle chatting. Thanks a bunch gents!

It is hoped that the rates being discussed throughout will remain stable until all of us, clients as well as escorts, receive some pot of gold or jackpot to use on whomever as well as for whatever!!!

 

PEACE and LOVE!!!!!!!:-) :-) :-) :-) :)

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>Devon,

>

>Within the next two months, I would very much like to see

>you at your current rates.

 

I can probably grandfather you in... :+

[Guest cp8036]

* as the rates go up, is there a higher stake associated with particular outcomes; do I get more guys with long checklists of things that had damn well better happen in an hour? If so, do I want to deal with the added sense of pressure?

* would my client base tend to become less diverse (and therefore less interesting) as the rates rose?

 

 

Devon,

 

If you have a higher rate $200 or $250 more is expected from you, in terms of looks, charm, and sexual acts. I think it is fair for a consumer to expect more (however that may be quantified) when they pay more. When guys get to the $250 and over range, they really have to bring something extra. However, many don't, they just feel this rate is appropiate for them as well since many other escorts charge that. So many things that gauge an escort, or person, are so subjective. An escort may think he is good looking, sexy, and fun to be with, but it doesn't mean the next ten clients will think the same.

 

 

My favorite is "upscale". This self-proclaimed suffix seems to be license for some escorts to charge $50-100. Once I violated the $200 limit and went for a guy that charged $250. I politely asked what makes your "product" worth more than most all the others. He didn't really have an explanation, other than to say that is what he gets. I went forth despite his lack of answer, mostly based on his partial photos. His looks, body, general personality, and sexual skills in no way warranted this rate. How he felt he was worth that, I am not sure. Certainly he was for a few men that reviewed him well. I don't mind paying a bit extra in most things I buy, but I really need to see the added value in it. It is hard to do this when we talk about the desirability of a person.

 

The client pool that pays 250 + is more than likely to be less diverse.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

Hi Boston Guy --

 

Some thoughts from "the other side" on your remarks about pricing and negotiation. I think I've already established that I don't have much personally to gain by defending the $250-300+ brackets... :+ But that doesn't mean I believe for a second that they aren't earning their fees, especially if people are returning to keep paying them. But I know you're not necessarily disputing that. Moving right along to what you did say...

 

>I still won't pay more than $200 per hour

>and it doesn't handicap me. In fact, I've had lots of

>escorts who wanted $250 or $300 come back to me immediately

>when I simply said that I don't pay more than $200 and say

>"OK, if you don't tell people I charged you this, I'm happy

>getting together for $200."

 

So far so good. I always appreciate it when a client tells me his upper cap; it's good market research info. I only charge $150 an hour, so if their max is below that, well...yeesh, I want to know which ad they responded to. In the case of these escorts, if they're voluntarily reducing their fee on the spot because demand is light, that makes perfect sense and everybody's a winner in this situation. If demand is always that light, maybe they realistically shouldn't charge that much anyway.

 

Okay. Now I'm going to live the fantasy for awhile and pretend to be a $200/hour whore. Woo-hoo!

 

>If I'm interested in spending two

>hours with someone I don't know, I ask what they charge for

>two hours.

 

Believe it or not to some ears this can sound a little passive-aggressive. Why not just ask what you really want to know, which is whether the second hour is cheaper than the first? It's only mildly irritating, but remember, you're creating a first impression too. We're creating the date together.

 

>Sometimes I get a crude reply back disparaging my arithmetic

>skills or suggesting that there must have been something

>wrong with my upbringing to even ask such a question. Or

>sometimes an escort will suggest that if I have to ask the

>question, I cannot afford to hire him.

 

Very revealing. If the escort is already cracking under the strain of one mildly annoying question, it can't be a good sign. I'd say, with a smile in my voice, something like "That would run you $400 for the two hours. I only have volume discounts kick in for visits running over X number of hours" -- then, explain how the rates work for longer meetings. This has worked well; sometimes the client even opts for the longer date (of course, that's back in the $150/hour world. I'm breaking character).

 

>I always find this

>amusing; it's been my experience that the wealthier someone

>is, the more careful they tend to be with how they spend

>their money. The wealthiest guy I've ever spent any amount

>of time with used to hate to pay more than $100 per night

>for a hotel room because he was "just going to sleep there"

>-- even though he could have easily bought any of the hotels

>he was staying in.

 

Well, well, well! Your friend sounds like what we escorts like to call a KEEPER! }> Just kidding. Seriously, though, if I'm a $200 escort and a client I haven't even met yet doesn't want to pay $400 for two hours, not because he can't afford it, but because he just can't stand the thought of spending that kind of money "just to have a hole to stick his cock in," well, he's not setting himself up as someone I want to bend over backwards to attract as a client. Again, that doesn't mean for a minute that I should be rude. But I have to say I'm amused by all the commerce metaphors that get slung about on this site -- elsewhere in your post you charmingly compare us to gasoline -- without regard to a simple fact: we're talking about an evening of sex and/or romance, people! Yes, escorting is a business, and yes, good business ethics should apply, but I'm sorry, you are not renting a hotel room or buying gas. You are hiring a man to establish some kind of sexual/romantic rapport with and act on it. And yet one of the first messages you choose to send is that you don't think two hours of my time is worth what I ask for it. Actually, I'm getting ahead of myself. At this point in the conversation, you've only asked to know my two hour rates, so I don't "know" that you don't want to pay them. I only know that from reading other things in the post.

 

>I've been told very nicely by some guys

>that the rate they charge for two hours is twice what they

>charge for one hour. I accept this and it's their right to

>charge whatever they want. But a two-hour appointment is

>much more efficient for an escort, since the amount of time

>they are getting paid for compared to travel time, time

>spent getting ready, etc. is much higher.

 

Well, yes, it's more "efficient," but I think you're falsely rationalizing sex again. If I'm not having a good time with somebody, that two hours is gonna feel like a LOT more than two hours. I'm sure you can understand why we'd want to keep the number of icky experiences (and the length of them) to a minimum. So I can see why somebody would want to insist on his full rate for two hours. Two hours of bad sex leaves a lot more emotional crud, and that's what he's risking.

 

>And this is

>reflected, I guess, in how many guys readily offer some kind

>of discount for the second hour -- anything from $50 to $100

>off is common, again in my experience.

 

This especially can make sense for someone at the 200 or up level, I agree. At my rate I feel like I absolutely earn the full fee for two hours. If I were to raise my rates I could see myself adopting some kind of pricing structure like the one you describe.

 

>There was one thread here a long time ago when two clients

>made two separate remarks that surprised me. The first said

>that he felt that he would be 'taking advantage' of an

>escort by asking for a reasonable rate...Hiring someone at a $200 >per hour rate does not in any way feel like taking advantage of

>that person to me.

 

That depends. If it's a scenario like the one you described above, in which the escort tells you his rate is $250, you say you only pay $200, and they come back and offer $200, then no, you're not taking advantage. The escort is an adult who made an offer. But the fact of the matter is, people price themselves as they do partly as a reflection of what they're willing to do and how often. Let's say that to meet my financial goals I need to make $1500 a week. I've got to have sex with ten strangers to do that. But if I ever got to the point in my career where I can command $300/hr (okay, it's an extreme hypothetical), I'd only have to have sex with five strangers a week. Right now, I'm still new enough to the biz that I really don't mind -- in fact I'm loving -- the high sexual volume in my life. But in a couple of years, who knows? I may be feeling like, "I'm sorry, if you want this ass it's gonna cost you $300/hr." You can decide for yourself whether you think I'm worth it, but to try and enter into a negotiation with me over it is to basically take issue with my sexual boundaries. I think escorts can be forgiven for feeling denigrated when that happens, and for not wanting to be bothered.

 

>ps: Sorry for running off on such a tangent. It's just

>that there are times when I want to reach out to one of

>these young escorts and say to him "I wish I could spend two

>days with you teaching you about the benefits of

>negotiation!" They really don't get it, many of them, and

>that's not surprising, because it's a skill that takes time

>to acquire and one that many fail to ever get good at, much

>less master. But it offers so many benefits in so many

>parts of our lives that it makes me frustrated when I see an

>escort look down his nose and think he's being insulted.

>But here I go again... :-)

 

Gee, Boston Guy, I'd love to spend two days being patronized, but as it happens, due to high demand I'm actually in the position of having to turn people away, not "negotiate" with someone who "really doesn't get" that the services I offer are not as interchangeable as brands of gasoline. Sounds like a lot of those escorts that you're thanking for their time are in the same position.

[phage]

>I do wish that more escorts would consider the economic

>times of those of us who are not AFFLUENT and maintain rates

>that would provide us non-rich "sugardaddies" a chance to

>experience these men.

>

>Right now I plan to be in Las Vegas, Chicago, NY, SF, and

>perhaps outside of the US all before the end of August of

>this year. As a "Hooboy" junkie-- I do want to meet some of

>the men in each of these places who have received "very hot"

>and fabulous reviews, but I ask myself: will I be able to

>afford to see four or five of these men in all of these

>places at $200 to $250 per hour per date?

 

Axiom,

 

From your posts, you sound like a nice guy, but your expectations are a little unreasonable if you don’t consider yourself affluent. Four or five of the top guys in each area? I admire your appetite, but it sounds like champagne tastes on a beer-drinking budget. Maybe you should focus on quality instead of quantity.

 

These guys aren’t performing public service work so the economic times and personal situations of their clients are not their concern. Since no one has the right or even deserves sexual access to another man’s body, as cruel as it may be, it is yet another privilege of economic success.

 

It’s an expensive hobby. Start saving those nickels and dimes.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: The Art of Negotiating :-)

 

>You are in a city on business for four days. You want to get

>together for two hours with a particular escort and you

>don't want to pay more than $350.

>

>You contact him and tell him that you're thinking about

>getting together with him and ask him what his rate is for

>two hours. He says $400.

 

[several counter-offers later...]

 

>You finally say, "Look, I'm a really easy-going guy and I'd

>love to meet you. I'm going to be coming back here every

>month for six months and, if this goes well, I'll call you

>every month. I'm in terrific shape, the morning works well

>for me and I'm not going to insist that you cum, because

>that's not critical to me. But I really only can pay $350.

>Do you think we can strike a deal here?"

 

Let's see...we've gone through counter-offer after counter-offer so that you can save between $50 on one visit and $300 over six visits over a six month period. Interesting.

 

>What have you done? You've sweetened the pot: you've told

>him you're in good shape and that he doesn't have to cum,

>which means he might be able to take one or two more clients

>that day. But if you say this, first, it better be true

>and, second, you have to live up to your end of the bargain.

 

Here's an alternative suggestion. Why not just hire the escort in the first place for $400 without subjecting him to protracted negotiations? Then, if you still feel afterwards that you really need to stick with your $350 a month budget, but really want to keep seeing him, who knows? Maybe you'll have a rapport established by then with the escort, and you'll be in a better position to say, "Listen, this was a real splurge for me, and you were worth every penny! I'm going to be back in town a lot over the next six months and I'd love to be able to see you everytime, but I really do have to watch my expenses with all this traveling. Think there's any chance we could work out a special arrangement?" At this point the escort at least knows whether your fitness level/the sex you two have/his compatibility with you "justifies" the discount. It's just a much nicer way to try and get a long term discount arrangement. You started things off on the right foot by not being cheap; the escort will more likely like and respect you from the beginning and will be more likely to be open to some little arrangement if you're really such a great guy to be with.

 

>If he walks in and finds an 80-year old, 400 pound,

>extremely hairy guy with no teeth and a rank odor, he's

>going to have every right to feel angry with the

>negotiations.

 

Actually most examples of misrepresentation are more subtle than that, yet no less irritating if they're used as the basis to secure special treatment. Don't forget how many chances we escorts get to see just how a client's perception of his looks match up with ours.

[Boston Guy]

Hi Devon -

 

A warning: the easiest way to respond was to copy your reply, which copied my original one. So this is long. :-)

 

I'm sorry if you found what I wrote offensive or patronizing. That wasn't my intent, nor was it my intent to suggest that anyone else should live by what works for me. We all have to find our own way. But sharing what works for us is part of the intend of M4M.

 

>But that doesn't mean I believe

>for a second that they aren't earning their fees, especially

>if people are returning to keep paying them. But I know

>you're not necessarily disputing that. Moving right along

>to what you did say...

>

 

If people keep coming back at whatever rate they're charging, they should charge that rate.

 

>>I still won't pay more than $200 per hour

>>and it doesn't handicap me. In fact, I've had lots of

>>escorts who wanted $250 or $300 come back to me immediately

>>when I simply said that I don't pay more than $200 and say

>>"OK, if you don't tell people I charged you this, I'm happy

>>getting together for $200."

>

>So far so good. I always appreciate it when a client tells

>me his upper cap; it's good market research info. I only

>charge $150 an hour, so if their max is below that,

>well...yeesh, I want to know which ad they responded to. In

>the case of these escorts, if they're voluntarily reducing

>their fee on the spot because demand is light, that makes

>perfect sense and everybody's a winner in this situation.

>If demand is always that light, maybe they realistically

>shouldn't charge that much anyway.

>

 

So far, we're in agreement. It's my impression, too, that escorts in areas that may not support a lot of $200+ clients set their rate at that level just because they've seen that rate quoted here or elsewhere. But the cost of everything varies from region to region and higher or lower rates in some areas might allow an escort to be successful.

 

>Okay. Now I'm going to live the fantasy for awhile and

>pretend to be a $200/hour whore. Woo-hoo!

>

 

:-)

 

>>If I'm interested in spending two

>>hours with someone I don't know, I ask what they charge for

>>two hours.

>

>Believe it or not to some ears this can sound a little

>passive-aggressive. Why not just ask what you really want

>to know, which is whether the second hour is cheaper than

>the first? It's only mildly irritating, but remember,

>you're creating a first impression too. We're creating the

>date together.

>

 

That's what I used to do. Believe it or not, I had a lot of escorts fly off the handle at that question. One escort in New York lectured me for five minutes non-stop, without taking a breath, when my second sentence to him was "Do you offer a discount for the second hour?" That's when I decided to simply start asking what their rate was for two hours.

 

If an escort is sensitive to the idea of discounting, then I think either approach might be annoying. But, on the flip side of that, escorts ultimately are in business and they are selling a service. People in that position should be able to answer questions about their rates without getting offended, especially if the question is not posed rudely. A simple "My rate for two hours is..." will do the trick. It's not necessary to take out on a new prospective client all of the anger that they've built up because of the actions of previous clients.

 

 

>>Sometimes I get a crude reply back disparaging my arithmetic

>>skills or suggesting that there must have been something

>>wrong with my upbringing to even ask such a question. Or

>>sometimes an escort will suggest that if I have to ask the

>>question, I cannot afford to hire him.

>

>Very revealing. If the escort is already cracking under the

>strain of one mildly annoying question, it can't be a good

>sign. I'd say, with a smile in my voice, something like

>"That would run you $400 for the two hours. I only have

>volume discounts kick in for visits running over X number of

>hours" -- then, explain how the rates work for longer

>meetings. This has worked well; sometimes the client even

>opts for the longer date (of course, that's back in the

>$150/hour world. I'm breaking character).

>

 

I think your approach is very shrewd -- and mature. You answer the question, with a smile. At the same time, you're offering the client information that might induce them to take a bigger package. This is not only good salesmanship, it's the beginning of a successful negotiation. :-)

 

>>I always find this

>>amusing; it's been my experience that the wealthier someone

>>is, the more careful they tend to be with how they spend

>>their money. The wealthiest guy I've ever spent any amount

>>of time with used to hate to pay more than $100 per night

>>for a hotel room because he was "just going to sleep there"

>>-- even though he could have easily bought any of the hotels

>>he was staying in.

>

>Well, well, well! Your friend sounds like what we escorts

>like to call a KEEPER! }> Just kidding.

 

He absolutely used to drive me crazy, he was so tight with a buck. But I've met other guys who built a fortune who were exactly the same way.

 

 

>Seriously,

>though, if I'm a $200 escort and a client I haven't even met

>yet doesn't want to pay $400 for two hours, not because he

>can't afford it, but because he just can't stand the thought

>of spending that kind of money "just to have a hole to stick

>his cock in," well, he's not setting himself up as someone I

>want to bend over backwards to attract as a client. Again,

>that doesn't mean for a minute that I should be rude.

 

Right. The question really isn't whether he can afford it to spend it or if you need to earn it. It's whether or not he wants to spend a certain amount for a service that you are offering at a certain rate.

 

>But I

>have to say I'm amused by all the commerce metaphors that

>get slung about on this site -- elsewhere in your post you

>charmingly compare us to gasoline -- without regard to a

>simple fact: we're talking about an evening of sex and/or

>romance, people! Yes, escorting is a business, and yes,

>good business ethics should apply, but I'm sorry, you are

>not renting a hotel room or buying gas. You are hiring a

>man to establish some kind of sexual/romantic rapport with

>and act on it. And yet one of the first messages you choose

>to send is that you don't think two hours of my time is

>worth what I ask for it.

 

I think the commerce metaphors are appropriate. I know that at least some escorts don't like thinking in those terms and they are offended when we speak that way. But, in fact, escorts are selling something and clients are purchasing something. It's commerce, like it or not.

 

For clients with an inexhaustible source of money to spend on escorts, none of this makes any difference at all. But most clients aren't in that position and money will become a factor, sooner or later.

 

For every good or service we purchase, there is a price point at which we longer want to purchase it, because the price is too high. And it becomes too high for one of three reasons: (a) the client simply doesn't have the money; (b) the client has to spend the money on something else; or © the client thinks the trade-off between what is being received and the price is no longer a good value.

 

Talking in terms of hotel rooms or the price of gasoline doesn't mean that I think of escorts as hotel rooms or like gasoline. However, the TRANSACTION is quite similar.

 

I've heard the argument before that hiring an escort is very different than purchasing something else, because of the very nature of what is being purchased. I don't completely agree. I do agree that the nature of what is being purchased is (a) something relatively scarce and (b) something clients find valuable -- thus the high prices being paid. But, ultimately, it still comes down to a matter of dollars and cents and each client has to decide, each time, that the transaction still makes sense to him.

 

For example, suppose a client wants to go spend a romantic evening with an escort and the cost is going to be $1,000. He hasn't set it up, but he wants to. But the day he is going to call to set it up, his car's transmission dies. Let's assume this guy doesn't have a lot of money and it's a choice between getting the car fixed or hiring the escort.

 

He might WANT to hire the escort desperately -- and, for some people in certain situations, that would be exactly the right decision. For example, if this guy's lover had recently died, he was genuinely depressed, in need of human contact, etc., maybe he should fix the car later. But in most cases the guy would curse, get the car fixed and put off hiring the escort.

 

Now, none of us think of hiring an escort like fixing a transmission. But we each have a certain capability for spending money and all of the things that we want to spend it on come into a kind of competition with each other. Re-pave the driveway or put a new roof on the garage? Take a trip to Aruba or take Mom to Bermuda? Go to the movies or cook a nice dinner.

 

So, to finally get back to your point, the whole point, essentially, of having an initial conversation with an escort is precisely to find out whether or not it will worth it to spend the money to buy a certain amount of time with that guy. It's not personal and an escort who gets offended by simple questions about costs is, in my mind, overlooking the advantages of such a conversation.

 

You demonstrated above that you don't take that approach and, in fact, use the question to suggest an even longer session. That's a good sales technique and I mean that in a complementary manner, because good salesmanship is sometimes hard to acquire.

 

>Actually, I'm getting ahead of

>myself. At this point in the conversation, you've only

>asked to know my two hour rates, so I don't "know" that you

>don't want to pay them. I only know that from reading other

>things in the post.

>

>>I've been told very nicely by some guys

>>that the rate they charge for two hours is twice what they

>>charge for one hour. I accept this and it's their right to

>>charge whatever they want. But a two-hour appointment is

>>much more efficient for an escort, since the amount of time

>>they are getting paid for compared to travel time, time

>>spent getting ready, etc. is much higher.

>

>Well, yes, it's more "efficient," but I think you're falsely

>rationalizing sex again. If I'm not having a good time with

>somebody, that two hours is gonna feel like a LOT more than

>two hours. I'm sure you can understand why we'd want to

>keep the number of icky experiences (and the length of them)

>to a minimum. So I can see why somebody would want to

>insist on his full rate for two hours. Two hours of bad sex

>leaves a lot more emotional crud, and that's what he's

>risking.

>

 

I've been told by escorts that they prefer longer appointments. Sometimes I do, too. So, if the escort offers a price for two hours that seems like a good one, I'm fairly likely to say yes. If the price is exactly two times one hour, I might say yes -- and have, many times -- but I will do so only if it seems like I really want to spend two hours with him.

 

If he offers me a price that seems like a deal -- say he offers $300 -- well, I'm human and just as open to getting a deal as anyone else. Even if I thought I was only going to spend $200, I might well end up spending $300 because it seemed like a deal.

 

None of that has much to do at all with what services he's offering. We've already established that I think there is value to what he is offering -- otherwise, I wouldn't be talking to him. It's really a question of how much time and money to spend.

 

For someone who hires escorts only occasionally, this approach might seem overly commercial or lacking in romance, etc. But I've previously posted on this site that I travel extensively for business and there are lots of nights when I get back to my hotel and think about possibly hiring an escort to come over to have some fun. At such times, I'm not looking for a huge romantic date or really anything in particular, just some fun. I might just go have some dinner and read a book, or do some work.

 

Just as with money, we have a tme budget as well and if we do one thing we can't do something else. So, if I'm in a hotel room and I'm thinking of getting together with an escort because I'm a little bored, one hour might be just fine. Two hours might be too long. On the other hand, two hours might be fun. So, if the escort suggests a good price for two hours, I might be convinced to go along. It's that casual and there aren't any hidden, deep meanings to the conversation.

 

And I assume that the escort is making the same sort of decisions on his end and I don't get offended if he says "the rate for two hours is two times the rate for one hour." That's his rate and it is what it is. I don't think "Oh, he must think I'm a bad guy because he won't give me a discount." It's just his rate and I need to know what it is in order to figure out what to do.

 

 

>>And this is

>>reflected, I guess, in how many guys readily offer some kind

>>of discount for the second hour -- anything from $50 to $100

>>off is common, again in my experience.

>

>This especially can make sense for someone at the 200 or up

>level, I agree. At my rate I feel like I absolutely earn

>the full fee for two hours. If I were to raise my rates I

>could see myself adopting some kind of pricing structure

>like the one you describe.

>

>>There was one thread here a long time ago when two clients

>>made two separate remarks that surprised me. The first said

>>that he felt that he would be 'taking advantage' of an

>>escort by asking for a reasonable rate...Hiring someone at a $200 >per hour rate does not in any way feel like taking advantage of

>>that person to me.

>

>That depends. If it's a scenario like the one you described

>above, in which the escort tells you his rate is $250, you

>say you only pay $200, and they come back and offer $200,

>then no, you're not taking advantage. The escort is an

>adult who made an offer. But the fact of the matter is,

>people price themselves as they do partly as a reflection of

>what they're willing to do and how often. Let's say that to

>meet my financial goals I need to make $1500 a week. I've

>got to have sex with ten strangers to do that. But if I

>ever got to the point in my career where I can command

>$300/hr (okay, it's an extreme hypothetical), I'd only have

>to have sex with five strangers a week. Right now, I'm

>still new enough to the biz that I really don't mind -- in

>fact I'm loving -- the high sexual volume in my life. But

>in a couple of years, who knows? I may be feeling like,

>"I'm sorry, if you want this ass it's gonna cost you

>$300/hr." You can decide for yourself whether you think I'm

>worth it, but to try and enter into a negotiation with me

>over it is to basically take issue with my sexual

>boundaries.

 

Why? Why is that true? It's a conversation about price, not sexual boundaries. You are offering a service at a price that works for you. If a client inquires about a price for a certain package of services -- two hours, six hours, a weekend -- it's still a conversation about price. Why personalize it and try to make it into a conversation about your worth?

 

If I engage a lawyer, the lawyer will have a set rate. If I hire a laywer for an hour, I'm not going to ask for a discount. If, however, I'm hiring a lawyer for a large project, I will definitely negotiate a price for those services.

 

This doesn't mean I question the value of those services. As with an escort, if I'm talking to a lawyer, I've already decided that there is value there. Instead, the conversation is about whether or not a deal that is good for both people can be worked out. In my experience, it works best if it doesn't become personal.

 

>I think escorts can be forgiven for feeling

>denigrated when that happens, and for not wanting to be

>bothered.

>

>>ps: Sorry for running off on such a tangent. It's just

>>that there are times when I want to reach out to one of

>>these young escorts and say to him "I wish I could spend two

>>days with you teaching you about the benefits of

>>negotiation!" They really don't get it, many of them, and

>>that's not surprising, because it's a skill that takes time

>>to acquire and one that many fail to ever get good at, much

>>less master. But it offers so many benefits in so many

>>parts of our lives that it makes me frustrated when I see an

>>escort look down his nose and think he's being insulted.

>>But here I go again... :-)

>

>Gee, Boston Guy, I'd love to spend two days being

>patronized, but as it happens, due to high demand I'm

>actually in the position of having to turn people away, not

>"negotiate" with someone who "really doesn't get" that the

>services I offer are not as interchangeable as brands of

>gasoline. Sounds like a lot of those escorts that you're

>thanking for their time are in the same position.

 

As I said at the beginning, I'm sorry if you feel patronized. That wasn't my intention.

 

But stick around M4M for a while and listen to the stories here. Or talk to other escorts about the deals that they have negotiated or have walked away from. You sound quite sophisticated in your approach. But lots of guys aren't and they just walk away from situations that in reality might have been really good for them.

 

My statement about wanting to be able spend time teaching some escorts about negotiating probably came across as patronizing and I apologize. What was in my mind as I was writing that was young salespeople, men and woman, who come into a job with no real idea at all about how to negotiate anything. Spending some time with them showing them how to negotiate -- how to understand when it's begun or how to begin it, how to negotiate effectively, how to close a deal -- is critical if they are going to succeed.

 

And, in many cases, it's not that hard and once someone becomes a reasonably good negotiator, those skills help them in many areas of their life. For an escort who is all alone -- meaning not surrounded by the structure of a formal business -- and who is selling a service, I believe that good negotiating skills could be a godsend.

 

And since I happen to like many of the escorts I meet quite a lot, I would enjoy seeing them succeed.

 

BG

[Boston Guy]

RE: The Art of Negotiating :-)

 

Devon -

 

To keep this one as short as possible :-), I won't copy the above.

 

Your point about meeting a first time is a good one. I usually hire a new escort for only one hour, at whatever rate they quote. It helps me get to know them and them to get to know me.

 

If I ask a new escort what his rate for two hours is and he says $400 (assuming he has a $200 hourly rate), I'm very, very likely to simply say "OK, why don't we get together for an hour, then." And that's the end of it.

 

But, sometimes, negotiating makes sense and, when it does, it can lead to something where both the escort and I are happy. But even in those cases, it's usually over in 60 seconds. Describing it takes a long time. Doing it does not.

 

BG

[Bastian]

As long as we're talking about rates, I have questions that don't seem to have been touched on. Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask. Does anyone have insight into the following?

 

Clients that ask for appointment discounts AFTER one or two regular initial dates.

 

What role does ethnicity play in producing a wage cap in escort markets?

 

Are escorts that rely heavily or solely on print media for advertising expected to provide rates closer to street workers?

 

How fair are clients who expect discounts for less than 'full service'? ("I only want to give fellatio, so the rate should reflect that")

 

Are physical attributes not directly under an escorts control -- like penis size or intelligence -- considered to be valid reasons for above standard rates?

 

Bastian

Ow...too much...overanalysis...must write..j/o story...to relieve pressure...

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>I'm sorry if you found what I wrote offensive or

>patronizing. That wasn't my intent, nor was it my intent to

>suggest that anyone else should live by what works for me.

>We all have to find our own way. But sharing what works for

>us is part of the intend of M4M.

 

I agree and know that your remarks were intended in that spirit. Don't worry, I'm not offended, though I did find some of what you wrote patronizing. You did seem to express bewilderment as to why escorts would ever be offended by requests to negotiate their rates, so I was trying to give some insight as to what some escorts might be thinking.

 

>>Why not just ask what you really want

>>to know, which is whether the second hour is cheaper than

>>the first?

>

>That's what I used to do. Believe it or not, I had a lot of

>escorts fly off the handle at that question...If an escort is sensitive to the idea of discounting, then I

>think either approach might be annoying.

 

Point taken. You're right, this is one of those situations where if you swim, you're a witch, and if you drown, you're dead. :+ Anyway, we have no disagreement on whether or not an escort should be rude in response to simple questions.

 

>I think your approach is very shrewd -- and mature. You

>answer the question, with a smile. At the same time, you're

>offering the client information that might induce them to

>take a bigger package. This is not only good salesmanship,

>it's the beginning of a successful negotiation. :-)

 

Thanks for the compliment, but I don't see it as the beginning of a negotiation; I see it as information that will help a client decide which, if any, rate in my pricing structure is right for him. The only reason things would get fuzzy enough for a negotiation, to my mind, would be if the client was interested in something in between a few hours and an overnight -- in other words, an uncommon unit of time, or else a visit longer than one night.

 

>I think the commerce metaphors are appropriate. I know that

>at least some escorts don't like thinking in those terms and

>they are offended when we speak that way. But, in fact,

>escorts are selling something and clients are purchasing

>something. It's commerce, like it or not.

 

Oh, it's commerce, alright, and I do like it. And as I said, ethical business practices are to a large extent universal regardless of the good or service, and analogies to other areas of commerce can illuminate that fact. But only if at some point you also stop and remember that this is a unique type of commerce, and nothing at all like toothpaste or automotive transmission. What is being bought and sold is a person's sexuality, and a unique, intimate encounter with a human being. At some point we ought to think about what's happening a little less coldly than when we're haggling over the price of melons.

 

>I've been told by escorts that they prefer longer

>appointments. Sometimes I do, too. So, if the escort

>offers a price for two hours that seems like a good one, I'm

>fairly likely to say yes. If the price is exactly two times

>one hour, I might say yes -- and have, many times -- but I

>will do so only if it seems like I really want to spend two

>hours with him.

 

>If he offers me a price that seems like a deal -- say he

>offers $300 -- well, I'm human and just as open to getting a

>deal as anyone else. Even if I thought I was only going to

>spend $200, I might well end up spending $300 because it

>seemed like a deal.

 

I totally agree and think that's the way it should be. Of course, this has nothing to do with the question of whether or not escorts should negotiate their rates. What the escort is offering isn't a discount from his real rates; he's offering you rates which he made a determination to set in the first place. There's no negotiation involved here.

 

>None of that has much to do at all with what services he's

>offering. We've already established that I think there is

>value to what he is offering -- otherwise, I wouldn't be

>talking to him. It's really a question of how much time and

>money to spend.

 

Well, yes, but the same could be said of my (soon to be ex-) roommate, who thinks that escorts should only charge $40 an hour. The fact is, by "offering to negotiate" you are expressing the fact that you value the escort's services at a lower rate than he does. There's nothing wrong with letting an escort know that, of course, but don't be surprised if it has a deleterious effect on his interest in meeting you. Remember, the rates are like a gate -- they let some people in and they keep others out. Most of us are prioritizing the "thinks I'm worth it" market over the "thinks I'm worth somewhat less" market, for reasons I'm sure you can understand.

 

>>You can decide for yourself whether you think I'm

>>worth it, but to try and enter into a negotiation with me

>>over it is to basically take issue with my sexual

>>boundaries.

>

>Why? Why is that true? It's a conversation about price,

>not sexual boundaries.

 

It's a conversation about price AS a sexual boundary. A large part of the function of raising rates is to thin out one's client population. If I only want to get plowed, have my tits snacked on, and get my dick sucked X number of times a week, that's one of my sexual boundaries. You're basically saying, "well, I think you should move your boundary over here a little." It's not in the same league with, say, trying to talk me into barebacking when I've told you I don't do it, but nor is it the smoothest way to kick off a night of romance, passion or just plain hot fucking.

 

>If I engage a lawyer, the lawyer will have a set rate. If I

>hire a laywer for an hour, I'm not going to ask for a

>discount. If, however, I'm hiring a lawyer for a large

>project, I will definitely negotiate a price for those

>services.

 

Is two hours a large project in your book?

 

>This doesn't mean I question the value of those services.

 

If you're seeking to pay less for the services than the price at which they're offered, of course you're "questioning the value." There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the value an escort assigns his services, but to seek to negotiate that value, in most instances, takes on a creepiness that isn't present in other areas of commerce. I can't speak for all other escorts, but there's something icky about a client who doesn't want to accept my rate but persists in wanting to arrange something with me. Call me old-fashioned, but I still think that at some point, even during the pricing phase, we have to acknowledge that we are making an agreement over something quite different than the cost of widgets. I think some of the rude reactions you get stem from the escort getting that "Eww!" feeling I'm describing.

 

>My statement about wanting to be able spend time teaching

>some escorts about negotiating probably came across as

>patronizing and I apologize.

 

Thanks, BG. Apology accepted and appreciated! :-)

 

>What was in my mind as I was

>writing that was young salespeople, men and woman, who come

>into a job with no real idea at all about how to negotiate

>anything. Spending some time with them showing them how to

>negotiate -- how to understand when it's begun or how to

>begin it, how to negotiate effectively, how to close a deal

>-- is critical if they are going to succeed.

 

But there are different kinds of sells -- varying degrees of hardness and softness which are appropriate for any given industry. For some services the seller has to get out there and chase every dollar. For other services you're not really trying to convince the potential client that he wants something he hadn't realized he wanted; you're just letting him know what you provide at what price. Escorting sales is at the extremely soft end of this spectrum, all penis jokes aside. We're not calling anybody; the client is calling us, wants to know what we offer and for how much, and we hopefully are letting him know in a charming and personable way. But we're not picking up the phone looking for a negotiation, and in most cases, thankfully, we don't have to deal with one (hence my vested interest in countering the popularity of your ideas about negotiations). So even though it's nice to want to help anyone with his/her negotiation skills, I don't think escorts are in extra special need of that assistance, apart from the banal observation that negotiation skills are useful in other areas of life.

[Guest DCescortBOY]

>How true!

>

>Thx for your astute observation almost two hours after the

>initial post pointing out a mistake has been made and more

>than 30 minutes after the original poster admitted he made

>the mistake.

>

>JT

 

 

always there for you

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: The Art of Negotiating :-)

 

>Your point about meeting a first time is a good one. I

>usually hire a new escort for only one hour, at whatever

>rate they quote. It helps me get to know them and them to

>get to know me.

>

>If I ask a new escort what his rate for two hours is and he

>says $400 (assuming he has a $200 hourly rate), I'm very,

>very likely to simply say "OK, why don't we get together for

>an hour, then." And that's the end of it.

 

>But, sometimes, negotiating makes sense and, when it does,

>it can lead to something where both the escort and I are

>happy. But even in those cases, it's usually over in 60

>seconds. Describing it takes a long time. Doing it does

>not.

 

No disagreeements here, except that I probably still think there are fewer occasions for negotiation than you, but I've nitpicked enough... ;-)

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: The Art of Negotiating :-)

 

BG

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort to develop and post the lesson -- well worth my time. And thanks to you and Devon for the extended dialog that highlighted some interesting issues from differing views.

 

TY :-)