Client No Shows

[Guest WetDream]

As I suggested in an earlier post, it should be possible for HooBoy to notify the client of the bad review and give him (I assume there aren't any "hers" here) the opportunity to respond. Of course, there would need to be an e-mail address for the client.

[Guest 7Zach]

clearly pimping. oh, "for time only".

[+ deej]

>Conversely, a client is not only

>unable to rebutt a bad

>review, he won't even know

>what is being said.

 

As I said before, the best way to avoid problems is to be a good client. ;-) IMHO, if someone hires one of these fine gentlemen and treats them with less than utter respect, they deserve to be talked about. And if it's consistent, repeated behavior they deserve to be "outed" among the escorts.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Joey,

 

> Thanks for

>making an exception with me

>by even planning an overnight

>(faith in kismet?),

 

I was hooked after your third post :-) ... it just took a little time to reel me in -- very little. What's between the sheets is a strong attraction for me but very significantly enhanced by what's between the ears. In your case how could I go wrong.

 

>Caution, prudence, gut instincts,

>and taking the time to

>get to know someone have

>often been my best security

>deposits,

 

A wise investment in your time, I think. Works for me too whether I get to know them from the board, or reviews, and in your case the telephone too, an extra source of info which only confirmed what I already knew.

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

RE: Client No Knows

 

>I was hooked after your third post<

 

That must have been the post where I said you were godlike.

 

>What's between the sheets is a strong attraction for me but very significantly enhanced by what's between the ears.<

 

Now I know why you're so fascinated with my nose.

 

>...the telephone too, an extra source of info which only confirmed what I already knew.<

 

Ah, the phone chat. The third qoutient in the "how well do I know this person" formula being discussed in the thread about identity. How much more is revealed about oneself, beyond the emails and posts, by the disembodied voice? I can't begin to philosophize about that entire discussion, not the way you and the other posters there have already done, but I do wonder about the disparity between what is revealed by the posts of the persona presented (not yours in particular), and how they are interpreted by the readers. Some here may think they know you, but how different would their definitions of you be?

[Guest Stefano]

Hooboy,

 

Well you are the man with the power to take such drastic steps that saddly enough, in my opinion are necessary. I am usually based out of LA and as I'm not knowledgable about other major cities and their no-show status, I can only make referrance to this issue based on LA.

 

Well let me just say that the clients there aren't always as responsible as we escorts are EXPECTED to be which is not very professional. We hear here in the message center remark after remark and post after post all about the escorts professionalism. Well this profession deals with clientelle that don't seem to take a serious attitude or a professional one when it comes to setting appointments and keeping them. That is to say not all clients.

 

I think that this problem is not deminishable but it can be in some cases avoided with an "escorts only forum"... I am sorry to those clients that feel it isn't a very kindly action but hey, if you're not the one who is leading escorts on in a game to waste their time, then you have othing to worry about. Right?

 

Well thanks for your time to all who read this and I hope I didn't sound one-sided in my opinions.

 

Mike Stefano ;-)~<---Mike'sMarkOfTrade...(M.M.O.T.)

MrMikeStefano@aol.com

 

PS Hooboy.. Lots of love from http://www.ChoirBoyz.com and the rest of the gang here in London... ;-)~ *HUGS*

[Guest Viewmaster]

>

>As I said before, the best

>way to avoid problems is

>to be a good client.

 

I can't disagree with you in theory. Therefore the reverse should be true as well. The best way to avoid problems is to be a good escort. But I think you would be the 1st to agree that sometimes a good escort does get bashed despite keeping his nose clean. I think what these earlier posters are trying to express is that it can happen both ways. I don't think either side(client or escort) has a monopoly on mental health and stability, and I'd go as far as to venture that there are a few loose cannons on both sides. The only thing people seem to be asking for is fairness. Would escorts be very happy if they were not allowed to rebutt something negative said about them?

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Client No Knows

 

>

>Ah, the phone chat. The third

>qoutient in the "how well

>do I know this person"

>formula being discussed in the

>thread about identity. How much

>more is revealed about oneself,

>beyond the emails and posts,

>by the disembodied voice?

 

Interesting addition to that discussion that you bring to the fore...

 

I

>can't begin to philosophize about

>that entire discussion, not the

>way you and the other

>posters there have already done,

 

Bullshit!! I know it when I hear it (read it too)... :-)

 

>but I do wonder about

>the disparity between what is

>revealed by the posts of

>the persona presented (not yours

>in particular), and how they

>are interpreted by the readers.

 

Very important factor as Will pointed out... and the disparity can be great. Each of us has skewed perceptions based on our backgrounds, experiences, biases, even our mood at the time.

 

>Some here may think they

>know you, but how different

>would their definitions of you

>be?

 

I'm sure they span the spectrum, it is to be expected. And while that point is interesting for what it says about the range of individuals that make up a population the basic question under discussion (how well is someone known by his posts) has to be decided by considering the distriubtion of responses to glean the results characteristic of the population sample. There will always be outliers at each end of the spectrum. (There is of course an assumption here that everyone is working from the same set of data.)

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

RE: Client No Knows

 

>Bullshit!! I know it when I hear it (read it too)... :-)<

 

Yikes. First regulation, now you. I guess I really am fulla shit!

 

>There will always be outliers at each end of the spectrum.<

 

When those outliers concur (as you and reg just did), what kind of indicator is that? You've got me worried now.

[+ deej]

>I can't disagree with you in

>theory. Therefore the reverse

>should be true as well.

 

I fully understand everything you and everyone else has said. And I actually agree with much of it. But....

 

>Would escorts be very happy

>if they were not allowed

>to rebutt something negative said

>about them?

 

If an escort is not allowed rebuttal, they may not be contacted in the first place.

 

If a *client* has a bad rep, they can rebut when they contact the escort.

 

The difference is that without the escort's right to rebut, first contact may not happen at all.

 

I'm not espressing myself very well, and I'm sorta rushed. Dammit!

 

Can you see what I mean about the differences in the situations?

[+ deej]

RE: Client No Knows

 

>>Bullshit!! I know it when I hear it (read it too)... :-)<

>

>Yikes. First regulation, now you. I

>guess I really am fulla

>shit!

 

I didn't find any.

[Boston Guy]

I think that any forum that is created for the purpose of encouraging escorts to identify 'problem' clients is likely to be an Internet landmine and a potential disaster.

 

Nowhere in the above discussion has it been mentioned that the underlying activity being discussed is illegal in most jurisdictions. A forum that doesn't allow clients to be identified would not address the stated problem. A forum that encourages client identification is just a starting point for law enforcement -- and with so many conservative jurisdictions and so many Internet-savvy police officers, anyone who doubts that the police will be accessing such a forum is simply naive.

 

I respect the goal of treating people respectfully and try to do so with all of the people who populate my life, escorts included. And I think it's laudable for people to try to act "professionally" no matter how they choose to make a living. But none of that alters the fact that escorting is illegal and looked down upon by the vast majority of the population, no matter how pretty a face we may try to paint on it.

 

Encouraging and facilitating client identification in any form whatsoever is foolhardy and someone somewhere soon will pay a price if that effort succeeds. And who's to say that the escorts will only identify 'problem' clients -- what's to stop the same kind of 'have you had him?' chatter that goes on here?

 

If I knew that an escort I hired was keeping written or computer records of his activities with clients, that would be sufficient reason for me never to see him again, no matter how much I liked him.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee, folks.

 

If the escorts perceive no-shows to be a big problem, they should (1) insist on advance payments; or (2) get a credit card number that will only be used in the event of a cancellation within a certain period of time; or (3) book additional clients on a conditional basis, where the appt is stated as 'I don't think I'm going to be available, but I will know for sure right beforehand and if I am, I'd love to get together with you'.

[Guest Sports]

Good point and I agree. It sounds like Talvin DeMachio keeps written and computer records of his activities with clients.

[+ deej]

BG, you surprise me.

 

The private escorts-only forum existed from the beginning of this message center and nobody got hurt, or arrested. It was discontinued recently ONLY because a loose cannon escort chose to post excerpts from it here in the public forum, an initial step in the process that led to this board being moderated.

 

Who cares if they chatter about us? We chatter about them!

 

I really laugh at the people here who advocate payment in advance. Isn't that one of the things this board lambasted Anthony Holloway over?

 

We're talking about a message board here, not a brothel in Times Square.

[Talvin DeMachio]

>Good point and I agree.

>It sounds like Talvin DeMachio

>keeps written and computer records

>of his activities with clients.

>

 

Sports,

 

Your right. I keep records of everything. I am very organized when it comes to my escort business. I keep E mails for a very long time. And keep a record of all my encounters.

 

I always keep a stand-by list in the case that people no show or cancel on me. I always tell people on my stand-by list that if I don't end up calling them...then your not losing out on anything. But if I do call...and it works with their time schedule then hey it works out and we can go for it.

 

I only see X amount of people a day. I do not try to cram in as many as I can. I want to be able to have fun with my clients and perform at 100% and want them to be satisfied.

 

 

Talvin DeMachio

http://www.talvindemachio.com

[Guest Viewmaster]

>

>If an escort is not allowed

>rebuttal, they may not be

>contacted in the first place.

>

>

>If a *client* has a bad

>rep, they can rebut when

>they contact the escort.

>

>The difference is that without the

>escort's right to rebut, first

>contact may not happen at

>all.

>

>I'm not espressing myself very well,

>and I'm sorta rushed. Dammit!

>

>

>Can you see what I mean

>about the differences in the

>situations?

 

Try as I might, I'm not understanding your point as you've expressed it. But I think the bottom line point you make is clear, i.e., you have no concerns about an escort only forum. After this many posts I think it's time for me to say we just need to agree to disagree. I will always feel that privacy is best protected in this case by having as much as possible be visable to as many as possible(Escorts are unlikely to publish client information in public). Many people here have expressed valid reservations. Try to think of it another way. The potential creation of private forums clearly makes some people uncomfortable. On the other hand, does the lack of them make people equally uncomfortable?

[Guest jeffOH]

The only time I would ask for partial payment in advance would be

wiht a first-time client who wanted an overnighter, which I'd rather not do. I'd rather have a 1-3 hour session with a client

before doing an overnight. After that, I would not require any payment in advance, unless I have to fly someplace with/or to see

a client.

 

Jeff4hire@aol.com

[Guest pickwick]

BG makes excellent points about the law enforcement problem and other problems with the sort of forum that has been proposed. His logic as usual is impeccable.

 

The fact that such a forum had to be closed the last time it was tried on this site due to the behavior of one of the participants, who was at that time one of the most trusted and highly praised escorts mentioned on this site, should be ample proof of the risks involved.

[MiamiLooker]

>The private escorts-only forum existed from

>the beginning of this message

>center and nobody got hurt,

>or arrested. It was discontinued

>recently ONLY because a loose

>cannon escort chose to post

>excerpts from it here in

>the public forum, an initial

>step in the process that

>led to this board being

>moderated.

 

So, what keeps another "loose cannon" from posting exerpts from a private board onto this board or any other board they have access to (and probably using a different handle)?

[Boston Guy]

>BG, you surprise me.

>

>The private escorts-only forum existed from

>the beginning of this message

>center and nobody got hurt,

>or arrested. It was discontinued

>recently ONLY because a loose

>cannon escort chose to post

>excerpts from it here in

>the public forum, an initial

>step in the process that

>led to this board being

>moderated.

>

>Who cares if they chatter about

>us? We chatter about them!

>

 

There seems to me to be a big difference between what goes on here and an escorts-only forum established to identify problem clients. Any forum that encourages positive identification of clients (or escorts, for that matter) for any reason whatsoever seems to be full of risk.

 

And I find it very hard to believe that such a forum would stick to such a narrow purpose. And what of the escort who is angry at a client or doesn't like the client for reasons that may not be the client's fault? What's to stop such an escort from "publicly" broadcasting that client's details? And where is the ability of the client to rebut these false charges?

 

Finally, I go back to my previous statement and again must insist that anyone who thinks these forums are not frequented by police is simply naive. And any escort forum that was established could certainly be penetrated by any police department that decided to do so, either openly by establishing an 'escort' persona or by penetrating the server.

 

I had assumed that the escorts-only forum in its previous incarnation was solely for discussion of escorting-related topics. Had I known then that client details were being published in it, I would have objected at that time.

 

Finally, I urge those escorts who think they are being 'organized' in keeping good records of their escort experiences and client contacts to consider that they are instead simply maintaining an organized trail of illegal activity. They are setting themselves and their clients up for unnecessary risks.

 

>

>I really laugh at the people

>here who advocate payment in

>advance. Isn't that one of

>the things this board lambasted

>Anthony Holloway over?

>

>We're talking about a message board

>here, not a brothel in

>Times Square.

 

Perhaps. But let's not walk around with our heads in the sand either.

[Talvin DeMachio]

>Finally, I urge those escorts who

>think they are being 'organized'

>in keeping good records of

>their escort experiences and client

>contacts to consider that they

>are instead simply maintaining an

>organized trail of illegal activity.

> They are setting themselves

>and their clients up for

>unnecessary risks.

>

>>

 

 

Call me paranoid. But I encrypt all my E mails and files using outstanding encryption software. Anyone who gets their hands on this PC will find it to be a piece of junk. Even if they get through my fire wall. I am a serious PC Geek over here and I protect all my files/E mails.

 

Talvin

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

BG,

 

A forum that encourages client identification is just a starting point for law enforcement ...

 

Yes, there is the potential for law enforcement interest -- they are already here on an occasional basis surely.

 

I would hope that there would be some strong regulation about posting personal information in the escorts forum just as there is here. This site is not set up for secure data transfers, and the threat for abuse in an escort forum is just as great, as we have seen. THis is not rocket science, I'm sure you'll agree.

 

Disclosing verifiable public identities is dangerous and moreover stupid and even more, there probably is no need to do so in most instances.

 

I'm dead against a board maintaining a client blacklist , but I favor giving the escorts a forum to discuss problems and that includes problem clients: repeat no-shows, fee rip-offs, physical abuse... However, no posting of verifiable identities. Any discussion of that must be in private between two escorts known to each other or to a third known escort -- no police plants thank you. (This makes sense for the protection of the escorts because I don't think the clients generally are as high up on the police food chain.) Discretion must remain a fundamental principle of this business, particularly on public boards, even the escort forum.

 

You raise the potential for abuse by escorts -- it is certainly possible and eventually likely on occasion. Why would that forum be any different in that respect from this one -- we have abuse of escorts here on an occasional basis. What is the remedy -- well as pickwick would say "more free speech" and I agree. I do not view the escort community as any more monolithic than the client community or any less reasonable as individuals.

 

And who's to say that the escorts will only identify 'problem' clients -- what's to stop the same kind of 'have you had him?' chatter that goes on here?

 

Who stops us on this board and does it really matter? I don't know the answer to this other than peer pressure. If they learned anything from the previous experience they should have learned not to post anything they don't want seen by anyone in the internet -- including us clients. Hence my admonition in a previous post to keep it business and take the opinion and gossip off line.

 

I admit that you present a sound conservative (safe) opinion on this issue, and in the end it may be the only really viable position but I hope not. The view that escorts just have to suck up the really egregious abuse as part of the business doesn't sit any better with me than us clients having to suck it up from escorts -- after all we are counterparts in the same business.

 

FWIW

[Boston Guy]

TY -

 

I agree that it makes sense for any group of people engaged in the same pursuits to be able to talk to each other and share common concerns and advice. Sanity is a good thing.

 

My concerns stem from the format that was suggested and the problem it was to solve: letting escorts know about clients who are likely to not show up as promised.

 

I hate the idea that any person would drive a couple of hours to meet a client -- any kind of client -- just to be blown off by that person, without any word or reasonable explanation. That sucks and it's something I wouldn't do to anyone, whether they were my friend, a colleague, a client or an escort. It's just really lousy behavior and speaks volumes about the people who engage in it.

 

But we are unfortunately engaged in an activity that is not accepted by most people. And while I firmly believe that escorting is not only a victimless crime, it is an activity that can bring real value to the lives of many clients, it is unfortunately still illegal in most places. So we all have to be very careful.

 

I think the times are changing and society may be moving slowly to a place where certains kinds of escorting might be decriminalized. Perhaps or perhaps not. But until that day arrives, I think we all need to be prudent.

 

Message Centers like this one sometimes may lead us to think that society has moved farther and faster than it really has. It all seems so 'normal' here, but we have to remember that we do not represent the average man -- or police officer -- on the street.

 

So I don't support any organized format that would make it easy for anyone to identify either clients or escorts and I don't support the idea of clients or escorts keeping records of their escorting contacts and activities. It's sad and it's unfortunate, but that's how I feel.

 

If we were talking about simply having an escorts-only forum where escorts could talk in generalities about escorting and related issues, then that might be a very good thing. But that's not the way it was suggested and such a forum would not solve the problem of identifying clients who don't show up.

 

BG

[+ deej]

>There seems to me to be

>a big difference between what

>goes on here and an

>escorts-only forum established to identify

>problem clients.

 

Sorry, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I truly don't see the difference. We identify problem escorts here. Turnabout is fair play.

 

Any law enforcement official showing up at Chez Hooboy with a subpoena gets access to both. Big woop.

 

Do you honestly believe you can hide behind your IP address? Or an "anonymous" e-mail address?

 

If you are posting here you are exposed and no private escort chatter about you will increase that exposure.

 

>And I find it very hard

>to believe that such a

>forum would stick to such

>a narrow purpose. And

>what of the escort who

>is angry at a client

>or doesn't like the client

>for reasons that may not

>be the client's fault?

>What's to stop such an

>escort from "publicly" broadcasting that

>client's details? And where

>is the ability of the

>client to rebut these false

>charges?

 

Wow, you've suddenly become way paranoid. The client can rebut when first making contact with the escort. The client can rebut when the information is first posted here (or elsewhere). Of course if it's posted here, it won't stay up for long and the escort will probably be invited to leave the site.

 

At the least, he will be reduced to strict moderation. We've done that just this week with a well-respected escort who I like a lot. It pains me to say this, but I'm one of the ones who voted him off the island.

 

We already trust the guys to be discreet. We expect it, in fact. Why do you immediately assume they wouldn't be discreet in a private forum?

 

>Finally, I go back to my

>previous statement and again must

>insist that anyone who thinks

>these forums are not frequented

>by police is simply naive.

 

As I said, a private escort forum certainly doesn't add to any liability you already have.

 

>I had assumed that the escorts-only

>forum in its previous incarnation

>was solely for discussion of

>escorting-related topics. Had I

>known then that client details

>were being published in it,

>I would have objected at

>that time.

 

Moot point. You didn't know about it. But aren't bad clients an escort-related topic?

 

I keep coming back to my point: be a good client and they won't be talking about you. Or be a REALLY GREAT LAY! ;-) THAT they might talk about.

 

You'd complain about that?

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Client No Knows

 

Joey,

 

Are you purposely trying to make Reg feel uncomfortable lumping him in with me!! :-)