I Like Escorts... Are There Some Who Don't?

[Guest AIM]

>Absolutely! No ONE

>should have been treated like

>that! x( I'm not sure

>what else that we as

>a group can do, but

>that's my two cents.

 

Yeah, I thought it was bad enough when several of the posters were ganging up on Jason. The poor kid was laying his heart out trying to respond and defend himself. But then when I saw ANOTHER escort join in the attack with innuendo, etc., I thought that was pretty pathetic!! So I called him on it. (Of course that then left me open to attack. But that's OK, I'm pretty thick skinned.)

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

Message received and replied to. Thanks for the Cliff's Notes. :-)

 

Esc-Tracker

[Guest regulation]

>Justice, thanks for the good will,

>but I didn't come to

>this board yesterday. :-)

>

>

>I know where I could find

>them if I was willing

>to spend hours paging through

>threads 50+ postings long (which

>I am not). I

>was just hoping someone could

>give me the gist in

>one sentence each so I

>can make sense of postings

>alluding to these incidents.

>(I don't want a blow

>by blow account). :-(

>

 

I didn't read the various threads on "Jason Reardone" in detail so you'll have to ask someone else about that.

 

As regards the terrible experience that "Zack Evans" had to go through, in a thread that he started on "Why I Escort," a poster called N.N. claimed that Evans had stood him up in January and wanted to know why. Evans at first denied it. N.N. offered to send him copies of emails they had exchanged. I urged him to do so. It seems that N.N. did send the copies, and Evans then admitted that N.N. had been telling the truth. I subsequently received some hate mail from Evans and posted a copy of it in the same thread for the edification of all concerned.

 

As for the topic of this thread, let me make my position clear. I like escorts who do their jobs well, just as I do waiters, carpenters, dentists and other service providers who fit that description. So many of the reviewers here report negative experiences with escorts; even those who post positive reviews often start out by saying that this experience was different from negative experiences they've had with other escorts. For this reason I have the impression that the percentage of escorts who do their jobs well is very small. Who knows?

 

What I DON'T like are escort groupies. People who defend escorts no matter how they behave and yell at anyone who dares to say anything negative about an escort irritate me. There are posters in this thread who defended Sean before he was exposed. And Billyboy. But they seem to have learned nothing from these experiences. They just keep doing the same thing, again and again and again.

[Boston Guy]

>Tampa,

>

>Although we’ve touched on this issue

>many times over the past

>few months, it still troubles

>me greatly. So greatly,

>in fact, that I’m seriously

>considering dropping out of this

>board.

>

 

Please stay.

 

 

>As everybody knows, we’ve got two

>distinct factions here. I

>believe it was you (or

>Boston Guy) who first christened

>them as the “whamers” and

>the “charmers.” Unfortunately, those

>words are far too innocent

>to adequately express the dichotomy

>we are wrestling with.

>

>There are those among us who

>see dates with escorts as

>nothing more than a commercial

>form of anonymous sex.

>They fear emotional and intellectual

>involvement with escorts, treat them

>as “paid meat,” and feel

>no remorse over the hurt

>they so often cause, either

>deliberately or through carelessness.

>And yes, I do believe

>that some of these folk

>are actually contemptuous of their

>escorts and see them as

>some lesser form of being

>– untrustworthy liars whose only

>redeeming quality is the ability

>to serve up a hot

>lay on demand.

>

 

When I coined the terms "Whammer" and "Charmer", I didn't intend for either one to be negative. I see "whammers" as clients who are looking to get together with an escort, often for an hour or two, just too have some fun. "Charmers", on the other hand, are guys who are looking more from the escort experience than hot sex; in many cases, they want the experience to be much like a real date, often overnight or longer.

 

I see both needs as legitimate, both kinds of clients as having value for escorts, and little to criticise on either side as long as the client is being honest with himself and the escort. I certainly don't see any reason to put down one group or the other.

 

I respect your experience and I've said before that I think you bring much of value to this board. But I don't agree with your characterization of guys who hire escorts for "sexual" rather than "emotional" needs.

 

I can agree that surely there are clients who would fall in the "Whammer" category who might look down on escorts and treat them badly or contemptuously. I feel pity for these men because it seems as if they've failed somehow to develop either a sense of compassion or any real maturity or perhaps both.

 

But just as surely, there are those in the "Charmers" category who are worthy of criticism, too. The ones who spring to mind first are the ones at the opposite end of the spectrum from the "bad guy"-whammers just described above -- the "bad guy"-charmers who latch onto escorts as substitutes for 'real' relationships and won't let go and end up becoming stalkers.

 

It seems to me that honesty goes a long way and having respect for one's sexual partners, no matter how they managed to end up on one's bed, should be the rule. And although it seems to be way out of fashion these days, I would add discretion and not kissing-and-telling to the list as well.

 

>

>After reading this board for over

>a year, I sadly accept

>that the “whamer” contingent is

>here to stay. There’s

>no way I or anybody

>else can convince them to

>change their behavior. But,

>my interests, needs and experiences

>are so different from theirs

>that I wish we posted

>to separate boards so that

>we could stay out of

>each other’s hair.

>

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I feel that I have learned a great deal from reading what has been written here over the last two years, often from guys whose perspective is really quite different than my own.

 

 

>In the meantime, I pray we

>can find some way to

>protect those well-meaning escorts who

>get caught up in the

>crossfire. No one deserves

>the abuse heaped on Jason

>and Zack here during the

>past month

 

On this, I couldn't agree more. I have tried to take steps in this direction in the past and will continue to try to stand up for those escorts who I think need and deserve a little defending.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Hey Reg,

 

Thanks for coming to the party.

 

"There are posters in this thread who defended Sean before he was exposed... But they seem to have learned nothing from these experiences."

 

I stand by all of my posts with regard to Sean. (Oh, I may have some regrets about the choice of a particular word here and there -- not so much with respect to Sean -- but content wise I'm fine with it.) I'm sure it is of no interest to anyone now but if it is then it is all there in the archives for inquiring minds. (Some of my better stuff IMHO. :-) )

[Guest DVS]

RE: I Like Escorts...

 

Thank You TY for the good post! I have read all the responses and I would have to say I think we need both the positive and negative responses here but to a professional degree.

 

One can say something negative but I think grace and tact come into play. I know I have identified the posters whom always have a negative spin on the board and I listen to their gripes with a grain of salt. I too have been attacked on other post, but I am very strong spirited and would never succumb to their feeble attempts at intelligence and communication.

 

Sometimes the negativity keeps us real. What I mean is when a client is lets say falling in love with his escort. This is more than a problem for the client it is a real problem for the escort as well. The best escorts are good actors and sometimes this causes emotional chaos. Some of the negative posters have slammed people for developing more than a professiona relationship with an escort. This is just an example of when a negative post could have a positive outcome.

 

I like and respect any escort I hire. I do not look at them as paid meat and I value the service they are providing which includes understanding the limits and respecting their privacy as I would expect from them.

 

Posting here and reading other post has given me the ability to both broaden my horizons and snap back into reality when blind human nature and good spirit guide you in the wrong direction.

 

To all the escorts out there THANK YOU for tolerating us clients and special thanks to the escorts who post their thoughts here and are often attacked we (The Posters) do not all share the same cynicism toward the profession. Some of us care for you and respect you and we only ask you do the same. :-)

[+ nycman]

The Wham-Charm Wars

 

(Referring to the "whammer's"):

>There are those among us who

>see dates with escorts as

>nothing more than a commercial

>form of anonymous sex.

>They fear emotional and intellectual

>involvement with escorts, treat them

>as “paid meat,” and feel

>no remorse over the hurt

>they so often cause, either

>deliberately or through carelessness.

>And yes, I do believe

>that some of these folk

>are actually contemptuous of their

>escorts and see them as

>some lesser form of being

>– untrustworthy liars whose only

>redeeming quality is the ability

>to serve up a hot

>lay on demand.

 

Whoa tiger! As a self-proclaimed and devout "whammer" who occasionally slips up and gets "charmed" I find the above diatribe extremely harsh. I got the same feeling in my stomach that I get when I hear someone describe gay men as nothing more than disease spreading sex maniacs with pedophilic tendencies.

 

Yes, I am a whammer and I am not ashamed.

 

Yes, I find the charmers as ridiculous as they find me.

 

I have never been disrespectful or unkind to an escort…or to a charmer for that matter.

 

You think we are heartless. We think you are brainless.

 

You say potato....

 

>After reading this board for over

>a year, I sadly accept

>that the “whamer” contingent is

>here to stay.

 

....let's call the whole thing off!

 

>There’s

>no way I or anybody

>else can convince them to

>change their behavior.

 

You want to change our behavior? This is beginning to sound like "reparative therapy for whammers". “Next on Dr. Laura...these men were hiring escorts for just sex and not for quality time...we helped them change and we can change you!”

 

>But,

>my interests, needs and experiences

>are so different from theirs

>that I wish we posted

>to separate boards so that

>we could stay out of

>each other’s hair.

 

Well, I have to say that the above bitch slapping probably wasn't the best way to start off L-man!

 

Seriously, your equating whammers with people who are disrespectful of escorts is both charm-o-centric and just plain wrong. I would agree that the whammers tend to be a bit more "cold" and objective in their dealings with escorts. It is the very objectivity that these men bring to this board that I appreciate. Sometimes it's harsh....but as you just proved to all of us....charmers can be harsh too.

 

In summary, you may have some valid points but the whammer slur wasn't appreciated and it didn't support your hypothesis.

 

What I think you MEANT to say was..."some people who post here aren't always very nice. I wish they were nicer but experience has taught me that they aren't likely to change. Can't we all just get along”?

[marc anthony]

Well, I have been out of the country for the past few weeks and looks like I missed a lot of activity on the message boards... some positive and some not so positive. I did have my fill of nice boys on this past trip, though, and can say that I liked them all. They were nice kids, beautiful on the outside, young on the inside... and they made me happy, and I think I made them happy (they all got paid well). So I concur... I come to this site because I like escorts. I enjoy them, and most of them are fun not only to be with, but to stay in touch with by internet or phone. I may not be "best friends" with many of them, but we are acquaintances with mutual interests, a symbiotic relationship, and I think we like each other. For those who hire escorts and actually don't like them, or for those who frequent this site and don't like escorts.... I am not sure I understand.

[Guest WorldEscrt Sean]

Exposed? I never expose myself in public. I'm a respectable white woman

[Guest regulation]

>Hey Reg,

>

>Thanks for coming to the party.

>

>

>"There are posters in this thread

>who defended Sean before he

>was exposed... But they seem

>to have learned nothing from

>these experiences."

>

>I stand by all of my

>posts with regard to Sean.

>(Oh, I may have some

>regrets about the choice of

>a particular word here and

>there -- not so much

>with respect to Sean --

> but content wise

>I'm fine with it.)

 

 

I'm sure you are. That's the problem.

 

 

>I'm sure it is of

>no interest to anyone now

>but if it is then

>it is all there in

>the archives for inquiring minds.

>(Some of my better stuff

>IMHO. :-) )

>

 

Sean is still around, still showing up from time to time to tell us how pathetic he thinks people who have to pay for sex really are. Since you and a couple of others did all you could to encourage him to act out by telling him how cute you found it, I think of you as co-authors of his posts.

[Guest regulation]

>>In the meantime, I pray we

>>can find some way to

>>protect those well-meaning escorts who

>>get caught up in the

>>crossfire. No one deserves

>>the abuse heaped on Jason

>>and Zack here during the

>>past month

>

>On this, I couldn't agree more.

> I have tried to

>take steps in this direction

>in the past and will

>continue to try to stand

>up for those escorts who

>I think need and deserve

>a little defending.

 

Frankly, Boston -- and I say this as one who has benefited from your generosity and evenhandedness in the past -- I think you are tripping. I wasn't involved in the Jason mess so I won't comment other than to say that Trekker, one of the other participants, is a poster I respect. But as a recipient of obscene hate mail from Zack Evans I feel the need to ask what "abuse" you think he suffered. All that happened so far as I know is that he was accused of "no-showing" a client, and at first denied and later admitted it. Why would you think HE is the one who was abused? Seems to me the exact opposite is true. And why would you defend someone who behaves that way?

[Traveller]

>This thread raises some interesting questions

>that seldom get asked. To

>whit: What are hirers of

>escorts really looking for in

>sex?

 

To get my tammy twacked, shoot a big load and discuss chaos theory.

 

Later.

[Boston Guy]

>Frankly, Boston -- and I say

>this as one who has

>benefited from your generosity and

>evenhandedness in the past --

>I think you are tripping.

> I wasn't involved in

>the Jason mess so I

>won't comment other than to

>say that Trekker, one of

>the other participants, is a

>poster I respect. But

>as a recipient of obscene

>hate mail from Zack Evans

>I feel the need to

>ask what "abuse" you think

>he suffered. All that

>happened so far as I

>know is that he was

>accused of "no-showing" a client,

>and at first denied and

>later admitted it. Why

>would you think HE is

>the one who was abused?

> Seems to me the

>exact opposite is true.

>And why would you defend

>someone who behaves that way?

>

 

Sorry... my response wasn't at all clear. I don't think Zack was 'abused' in that thread and, as I said someplace else late last night, that whole thing seemed wierd to me. I know him and he seems awfully level-headed and really quite bright. But I have no doubt you received the emails you said you received.

 

As someone else wondered, my first reaction was to wonder if somebody was playing a joke on both of you. But that was just idle speculation. I like Zack and I hope it wasn't him sending those emails. If it was, I think he made a mistake in doing so and he should certainly apologize for a lapse in judgment.

 

I think he's fairly new to escorting and clearly feeling his way and learning as he goes. I think he's a rather decent guy and I think he has the potential to be very good.

 

But the world looks different from the point of view of someone who is 21 than it does through older eyes and we can make mistakes at any age. If Zack sent those emails, it was wrong, he should not have done so, and he should acknowledge his error and apologise.

 

That aside, when I responded to TY above, I wasn't thinking of the Zack situation at all. Instead, having just written a couple of responses in other threads, I was thinking of times in the past when I felt a need to defend one escort or another who I thought had been attacked in an unwarranted fashion. I should have made that clear in my response.

 

Sorry I wasn't clear and sorry to have cast doubts on you as a result of my lack of clarity. I really do have to learn not to post here when I return home dead-tired from a trip at 2:00 am.

[Traveller]

RE: The Wham-Charm Wars

 

>You want to change our behavior?

>This is beginning to sound

>like "reparative therapy for whammers".

>“Next on Dr. Laura...these men

>were hiring escorts for just

>sex and not for quality

>time...we helped them change and

>we can change you!”

>

 

Very, very good. I'd say more, but I'm late for my next tammy twacking.

 

Later.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Now Reg,

 

“since you and a couple of others did all you could to encourage him”

 

I did encourage Sean as well as you and others as I recall... but we seem to disagree on the direction of my encouragement to Sean and probably to you and the others as well.

 

“to act out by telling him how cute you found it , I think of you as co-authors of his posts.”

 

It seems to me that you are presenting your intrepretation of my words as the actual words I said -- something you have chastized me and others for, some as recently as last week. You are welcome to your opinion on the meaning of my posts (although I'm unsure if you always extend the same courtesy) but I’d appreciate it if you would extend to me the same care that it is my impression you expect about separting one's actual words from another's intrepretations and opinions.

 

One more time -- I stand by my posts and they are available in the archives for those with interest and nothing better to do.

 

Reg, our weather in Boston is great today, I hope yours is as good.

[+ nycman]

>To get my tammy twacked, shoot

>a big load and discuss

>chaos theory.

 

You call your penis a "tammy"?...as in Wynette?

 

Great!

Now, I'm not gonna be able to beat off for the next week without hearing "Stand by Your Man..." play in my head.

...thanks a lot!

[Traveller]

>You call your penis a "tammy"?...as

>in Wynette?

>

 

 

Wrong direction, dude. My bunghole is my tammy. Getting my tammy twacked involves lube, a condom and at least 8 inches. That's when tammy's in love.

 

Later.

[Losgatan]

Boston Guy,

 

As always, I’m grateful for your wisdom and temperance. In retrospect, I probably did overstate my case and apologize to anyone who took offense. I was specifically speaking about “the some among us who…” I did not mean to condemn the entire “whammer” community.

 

>I can agree that surely there

>are clients who would fall

>in the "Whammer" category who

>might look down on escorts

>and treat them badly or

>contemptuously. I feel pity

>for these men because it

>seems as if they've failed

>somehow to develop either a

>sense of compassion or any

>real maturity or perhaps both.

 

What bothers me most is the influence these guys have had on what Justice called “the tone” of this board over the past several months. The best evidence I can point to is Konga’s distillation of the hostile and often contemptuous comments about escorts in the “Friends” thread. I’m afraid I have to agree with Justice that some of us may have deeply conflicted feelings about our relationships with escorts and are overly quick to lash out at the supposed enemy in our posts.

 

Perhaps that’s why it’s so rare to see a compassionate dialogue between escorts and clients thrive on this board. Why do so many attempts to start one degenerate into flame wars?

 

>But just as surely, there are

>those in the "Charmers" category

>who are worthy of criticism,

>too. The ones who

>spring to mind first are

>the ones at the opposite

>end of the spectrum from

>the "bad guy"-whammers just described

>above -- the "bad guy"-charmers

>who latch onto escorts as

>substitutes for 'real' relationships and

>won't let go and end

>up becoming stalkers.

 

True enough. But at least this issue isn’t distorting our discussions here. “Bad guy”-charmers tend to get trapped in their own private hells and would, I suspect, be very reluctant to reveal their obsessions on this board.

[Losgatan]

Sorry, my references to Justice in the post above should have been to Tampa Yankee.

[Justice]

You're welcome :-) I'm glad I was able to help! ;-) (I sent a very brief follow-up.)

[Boston Guy]

>

>True enough. But at least

>this issue isn’t distorting our

>discussions here. “Bad guy”-charmers

>tend to get trapped in

>their own private hells and

>would, I suspect, be very

>reluctant to reveal their obsessions

>on this board.

 

 

That's a really interesting statement -- and I mean that literally, not ironically.

 

I've never bothered to check to see who it was that was posting negative stuff -- whether it was guys who seem to be Whammers or guys who seem to be Charmers. On the face of it, I would have thought the Charmers would be more likely to be disappointed in what an escort delivered and so would post more negative things here.

 

For example, I can recall various posts where a client had made big plans for an encounter, drove hundreds of miles and then was very disappointed because the escort failed to measure up. I'm not in the slightest excusing people for failing to follow through on their side of a bargain, simply pointing out that Charmers often seem to have more invested emotionally when they hire an escort and so might end up more disappointed and more negative here.

 

But I don't know if that bears any resemblance to reality and I don't know if would hold up to any scrutiny of who's been negative here. I'm might be way out in left field on that one.

 

Surely some of the negativity has come from angry escorts who were upset over reviews. Other negativity has come from conflicting opinions on emotional issues and sometimes it just seems like people need to chill a little bit and give the other guy a break. It doesn't diminish us at all to acknowledge that someone's else's beliefs have validity, too, even if we don't agree with them.

 

But beyond that, it might be interesting to go back and see -- who's been more disappointed in their escort experiences: Whammers or Charmers? And who has been more negative in posting? And do the two things have much at all in common?

 

And, finally, just be a bit outrageous (to steal a term from Will), I'll throw out something that's bound to be contentious: it's my gut feeling that guys who hire escorts frequently are more likely to be satisfied with their escort experiences and less likely to be disappointed than the ones who hire escorts somewhat or very infrequently. Sometimes it seems as if there are certain guys here who hardly ever hire escorts but spend what seems like a lot of time tracking escorts, studying escorts, researching escorts, challenging escorts, challenging reviews, etc. Sometimes I just want to say "but it's supposed to be fun."

 

But, again, that's only a gut feeling and it may not be accurate and may not reflect the reality of what's been posted here over two years. Sometimes gut feelings are really right on but sometimes they're not. Perhaps someone will have the time and energy to go back to the archives and do a survey. :-)

[+ nycman]

>Wrong direction, dude. My bunghole

>is my tammy. Getting

>my tammy twacked involves lube,

>a condom and at least

>8 inches. That's when

>tammy's in love.

 

Oh...that's a much more pleasant image...Tammy Wynette's face superimposed over your ass....lol

 

http://www.jpc.de/jpcimages/big/8436450.jpg

 

(See Munroe, you aren't the only one knows how to use HTML commands to post italics..now figure out how to post images...dumb whore...smile)

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

I though itwas just tons of mascara instead of lube... but then you really never struck me as Fay.

 

:-)

[Losgatan]

>But beyond that, it might be

>interesting to go back and

>see -- who's been more

>disappointed in their escort experiences:

> Whammers or Charmers?

>And who has been more

>negative in posting? And

>do the two things have

>much at all in common?

 

I think this indeed would be an interesting study. And, from my admittedly biased perspective, I bet the charmers would prove to be the least disappointed.

 

Some reasons:

 

First, I believe a charmer would work harder to make the experience a success. If he's at all good at "charming" he'll find some aspect of the escort's personality that he can relate to and use it to "save" the session.

 

Second, charmers are probably less sensitive to minor disappointments in bed than the Whammers are. Charmers often value perceived intimacy (hugging, cuddling, kissing) more than sexual gymnastics. Whammers expect extremely high performance from their escorts and are very dissapointed when they don't get it.

 

Finally, I believe that most of the reviews here are written by charmers. As was pointed out in the recent "reviews" thread, whammers find it hard to accept the glowing reports that are so often posted.

 

As to your other hypothesis, that clients who hire infrequently are most likely to be disappointed, I suspect you right on the money. Part of the reason is simple experience in choosing, hiring and enjoying. But infrequent hirers are also apt to be less self-assured and more nervous.

 

Yet it's amazing that so many reviews written by first-time clients praise their escorts to the skies.

[Guest regulation]

>I've never bothered to check to

>see who it was that

>was posting negative stuff --

>whether it was guys who

>seem to be Whammers or

>guys who seem to be

>Charmers. On the face

>of it, I would have

>thought the Charmers would be

>more likely to be disappointed

>in what an escort delivered

>and so would post more

>negative things here.

>

 

 

Frankly, BG, I think the categories you folks have invented for clients are artificial and a bit silly. Nor do I think it makes any sense to criticize reviews or posts about escorts for being negative. On a website that is supposed to provide information that is useful to consumers, what matters is that the information is accurate, not whether it is negative or positive. If a client has had many negative experiences, that is what he should report. If he conceals the true nature of his experiences for fear of being bashed as "too negative," he's doing a disservice to others here. And so are the people who bash him.

 

My own experiences with escorts have been almost entirely positive. One reason is that I'm extremely careful, even suspicious in dealing with escorts. Many reviewers who report rip-offs of various kinds confess that they ignored what should have been obvious warning signs in dealing with the escort -- but I never ignore those things. A long time ago a very wise man told me something I've always remembered: you can only be betrayed by people you trust.

 

I don't know about "charmers," but some people who frequent this site strike me as "fans" rather than as consumers. Fans are people who want to enjoy an imaginary relationship with a performer whom they really don't know apart from his performances. In the case of escorts, these fans seem to want to live in a Runyonesque fantasy world in which hookers all have hearts of gold and never do anything wrong.

 

Is this more likely to lead to disappointment? I suppose it depends on their capacity for self-deception. I know there are still some fans of Michael Jackson who don't believe he fooled around with kids. I suppose some fans are so good at deceiving themselves that they can keep doing it no matter how much evidence they see.

 

If people want to be escort "fans" rather than consumers, I guess it's okay with me. Their behavior may seem foolish to me, but it isn't really my business -- until they start taking the position that there's something wrong with anyone who isn't a "fan" and that people who don't want to indulge in such fantasies should leave this site.