Age of men who hire escorts

[Guest torjon]

RE: What is the problem?

 

If I may pull the thread back to the question, I'll tell you quite simply why this older (late 50s...very late 50s!) man hired escorts when I finally acknowledged my bi side. Discretion.....feeling somehow safe....and being with the kind of beautiful young men I could only fantasize about otherwise. In the almost a year since I made that decision,almost every fantasy has come true. Could I have found someone "free" ??? Ever heard of chat lines? Younger men are are all over them seeking older men.It's not hard to meet someone if you want to go that route. I like immensely the few escorts I see on a more or less regular basis and in some cases absolutely treasure them. Desperate Im not. Also don't think the original poster meant to offend anyone. It's a legitimate question and one many people have no doubt wondered about. Now we have some of the answers.

[Guest SF_cruiser]

Hey, I am one of those handsome thirty something yuppie-types (with a BMW) who is considering an escort. Everyone asks me why I am not hooked up with some perfect prince. Who knows? I will defer to my therapist, mother and my boss.

 

Whatever the case, where does one go in SF to meet these professionals? Yeah, I have spent some time in the park, but I like more light.

 

Any advice is appreciated. Banked and ready.

[Guest RENT]

In reference to this thread,

 

I hired my first escort when I was 19-years-old. My intentions for doing this was simply to learn from my experience (and of course to "get-off").

Going into my first escort experience, the way i perceived it was I paid (or rather my parents paid) for a top-notch education, they've paid for my elite level personal development seminars, they've paid for my therapist--my point being, everything that has provided me with the best possible level of expereince, has had some level of economic exchange. And what I paid for was the "certainty" of the experience. I knew what was going to happen, where it was going to happen, down to the hour it was going to happen. Quite honestly, escorts are an efficient and effective

way to have a one-night-stand.

 

RENT

[Guest wallstreetkindofguy]

RE: the age thing and falling in love with escorts

 

You might all feel flattered to know that I printed out every post in this thread and made my psychiatrist read it--all of it. I asked him why anyone would be offended by the question whether only old or ugly people hire escorts. He asked me to imagine that he were someone just coming out and wanted to know if only effeminate queens were gay.

 

After I had fired him and said that I'm no god damned queen and was getting up to leave, he asked me to imagine that I were the psychiatrist and that he was a first time patient who wanted to know if only crazy people go to see a psychiatrist. Slowly it dawned on me what he was getting at. (As you see, I'm not too swift sometimes.) His point was that sometimes when a person embarks on something new that society unfairly puts down, the person may ask an ignorant question because he is afraid that the stereotypes are true (and that the prejudice against the sterotypes is warranted) and because he wants some reassurance that he is okay.

 

Hey, I know there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being old, ugly, queeny, or crazy, and I know that what society considers to be old, ugly, queeny, or crazy is really arbitrary and unequal. But I'm glad to realize that hiring an escort doesn't have to mean that I'm desperate or craven or without options. I'm starting to think that anyone who could afford to hire one and who doesn't is a fool.

 

Okay? I've made a lot of money this week, and since that's put me in such a good mood, I've tried hard to write a post that doesn't insult anyone.

 

By the way, my psychiatrist suggested that I ask everyone here if people have had experiences with getting a crush on an escort and how to handle it. Gee, do you think my psychiatrist was implying that this question has anything to do with me?

 

--John

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: the age thing and falling in love with escorts

 

wallstreetkindofguy,

 

Welcome back!

 

I am glad you made it here again. Interesting thoughtful, and funny post. You seem more self-assured this time around. I hope we didn’t individually or collectively send you to the shrink. (Does he have group rates?)

 

<But I'm glad to realize that hiring an escort doesn't have to mean that I'm desperate or craven or without options. I'm starting to think that anyone who could afford to hire one and who doesn't is a fool.>

 

I think your are on the right track, for what its worth.

 

BTW how much money did you make?? – just kidding.

 

Seriously, should I get out of Wall Street before this year’s October event. :-)

[Will]

RE: the age thing and falling in love with escorts

 

For what it's worth, I hired my first escort because I thought I was an ugly, dirty old man, and that the only way I was going to have sex was to pay for it. It turns out I'm not ugly, that "old" is a matter of opinion, and that I am not, in fact, required to shop. It took escorts to teach me a basic lesson in self-knowledge that most men of my generation were systematically denied.

 

My present view is that there are as many reasons to hire an escort as there are clients. In any case, what difference does it make, unless you want to be an escort yourself? From the sound of it, you're not likely to need to peddle your ass to keep the BMW's gas tank topped off. But Rick Munroe might be quick to say that "money has nothing to do with it." If you want to find out how that attitude affects his work, I suggest that you pitch some of that easy-come, easy-go in his direction at your very earliest opportunity.

 

Which brings me to the final point: the best reason to hire an escort -- a first-rate, world-class escort -- is because they know more about sex than anybody else. As a professional yourself, you're surely sensible enough to know the difference between an amateur and a pro!

 

Happy trading! Or is it "hustling?"

 

By the way, there are tons of threads in the archive of this site having to do with your psychiatrist's curiosity. It's my hunch that many clients of top-notch escorts are frequent targets for Cupid's little arrows.

[Guest Manluvr]

RE: Will's response to WallStreetkindofguy

 

Will-

 

Some excellent ideas, very well put. Some of your comments were tantalizing but cryptic, and left me wanting (to know) more (...sort of like being with a world-class escort, maybe...??!!)

 

For example, you mentioned:

 

>It took escorts to teach me a basic lesson in

>self-knowledge that most men of my generation

>were systematically denied.

 

What exactly was the lesson, do you think, that you (we in our generation) have been denied? How were escorts able to communicate that to you?

 

You also said:

 

>Rick Munroe might be quick to say that "money

>has nothing to do with it." If you want to find

>out how that attitude affects his work, I suggest

>that you pitch some of that easy-come, easy-go in

>his direction at your very earliest opportunity.

 

Since this escort business is kind of new to me,

I'm still a little slow to grasp the basics.

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say here...either about WallStreet's comments or more specifically about Rick Munroe. What is Rick's attitude, or how does that affect his work? His reviewes seem to be pretty positive. But were you saying something different about him (or past experiences with him)? Not sure what you meant by "easy-come, easy-go" or what you might think Rick's possible reaction might be. Can you clarify?

 

Your final idea was:

 

>the best reason to hire an escort -- a

>first-rate, world-class escort -- is because

>they know more about sex than anybody else.

 

In your experience, what is it exactly they know that is so special? The pleasure map of the human body? How to relate to people? Oral or other "techniques," intuitive grasp of clients' psychology or needs?

 

Hope you can elaborate on these ideas. Think it would be helpful to me and other sort-of newbies.

Thanks in advance!

[ready4boi]

I think John's question was a fair one and not insulting at all. Before I hired an escort for the first time, I had one other major concern a lot of you guys out there tend to ignore. Prostitution is illegal and a crime. That is something major to consider if you are new to this. In reference to Littleantnee's comments about The Gaiety, I have rarely seen younger guys under the average age of 30 frequenting The Gaiety. The ones I have seen are almost always escorts or can be "bought" and some rather cheaply I might add. The Gaiety has changed a lot in the last seven years with its glamorized beefcake image so the number of those escorts rapidly dwindled. Younger guys going to the theatre to just watch the show or otherwise are made to feel uncomfortable for this reason. They can be mistaken for being a hustler. I've seen it happen many times and it can be awkward for the guy who's being approached whether it's by another customer or dancer.

[Will]

RE: Will's response to WallStreetkindofguy

 

LAST EDITED ON Aug-06-00 AT 01:22PM (EST)[p]Sorry - Double Post

[Will]

RE: Will's response to WallStreetkindofguy

 

Dear Manluvr, I'll do my best to answer your questions, with thanks in advance for having asked them. (I'm usually bidden, for good reason, to be on the receiving rather than the giving end of advice.)

 

First, it seems to me that the major effect of homophobia is to eradicate a healthy sexual consciousness in selected human beings. Of course, a human being cannot attain autonomous personhood without being conscious of her/himself as fully sexual. But homophobia teaches that homosexual children do not have the congenital right, so inherent for their heterosexual peers as not to merit examination, to embark on a lifetime of responsible but joyful sexual behavior. Thus homophobia is actually an attack on the freedom of human beings to develop according to their nature. And because it is the enemy of human nature, I believe homophobia to be a specific and unqualified evil.

 

Male-directed homophobia is most virulent when it encounters behavior, or even an expressed desire, that might lead two men into a stable, public (and therefore unavoidably political) bonded relationhip. I point this out because there are many homosocial situations (prisons, summer camp, long sea voyages) in which some forms of same-sex behavior are permissible if not fully acknowledged for what they are. "Boys will be boys," after all, whether they're being boys with girls or boys with boys. Love is another matter altogether. While the conventions permitted within friendship do allow for some expression of man-to-man affection, the genital behavior permissible in the kinds of situations cited above is absolutely taboo when linked with emotional interdependence, tenderness, and mutual caring. The moral index of homophobia makes romantic love between men a far greater offense than erotic love.

 

Homosexual boys whose education was based in part on these norms never knew that there was any conceivable alternative or even counter-argument. (It's my hunch that only people born after about 1965 were exposed early enough in life to alternatives so that they were not necessarily fully indoctrinated with what I said above.) The net effect, I think, was to rob homosexual boys of any form of sexual autonomy that was not accompanied by shame and the very realistic fear of ostracism, which was always emotionally if not physically violent. They became sexually abused adults to whom it did not occur that they had a right, even a need, for the same kinds of erotic experience that heterosexuals take for granted. So that was my first point.

 

Second, when a homosexual man decides that he's gay (which I take to be the consequence of at least realizing that he's in the closet, whether he comes out of it right away or not), and decides to try his sexual wings, he has absolutely no clue about how to proceed. It might be argued that most adolescents or even young adults don't have a clue about how to start forging sexual relationships, but the straight boys at least know that it's OK to try. The gay boys don't. Somebody has to let them know, in the words of Stewart Smalley, that "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggone it, people like me." Thus the romantic histories of many, many gay men of my generation (I was born in 1940), including my own, look like the chronicles of Genghis Khan: blood baths. That's because a man who doesn't think he really has the right to be out there looking will take the first thing that comes along. Or, alternatively, he will fall for one man after another who is not only unavailable but would be inappropriate if he were. Furthermore, those men frequently cannot distinguish between their need for sexual intimacy and their need for emotional intimacy.

 

That's what escorts are great at. For the very best ones -- Rick Munroe and Gino Mancuso are two Cosmic-Class escorts in my opinion -- professionalized sex is a form of, well, service. They know how to coax a man into playing at being sexual; how not to be afraid; how to concentrate on the matter at hand rather than looking over his shoulder half the time and flinching in anticipation of being attacked for the other half. They know what feels good. They know all kinds of games. And -- MOST OF ALL -- they think sex is joyful and want their clients to think so, too. I'm not stretching my vocabulary to say that good escorts are like therapists, like educators, like coaches, like ministers. They are my notion of what the great Japanese geisha are.

 

Finally, my remark about "easy come/easy go" was inspired by the apparent ease with which our enchanting young tycoon-in-training seems to make more money in a month than I do in a year. Clearly, however, he's someone who is not likely to sell his soul rather than his commodities on Wall Street. Otherwise he wouldn't be in a shrink's office. Clearly, too, he's someone who is learning how difficult it is for many of us gay men to take ourselves seriously as sexual -- that is, fully human -- beings. My aim in posting my remarks was only to extend a sort of virtual hug, and a kiss on the cheek, and a pat on the back. I wanted to encourage him, and to let him know that when he's my age I hope that his homosexuality will support rather than challenge his emotional and spiritual well-being. I want him to know himself to be infinitely lovable and, to probably more than one man, infinitely desirable. In this case, a good escort might help take his first steps.

 

Does that answer your queries?

 

Cheers, Will

[Bilbo]

Hey, ready!

Truely prostitution is illegal in most areas in the USA. But so is almost anything else two adult, consenting gay people might want to do in the privacy of their sexual trysting places. Check out the sodomy laws. (By the way, they are misnamed in that that wasn't the true sin of Sodom.) So if you're going to be illegal anyway, most of us here figure, go ahead and be illegal.

[ready4boi]

Thanks for the tip Bilbo,

 

Not to make a joke out of the serious nature of your response, but generally, I tend to only practice sodomy in states where it is legal and in the privacy of my own home.

[Guest LITTLEANTNEE]

readyforboi:

I started attending Gaiety regularly just after the "change" about 5-6 years ago. I was under 30, then and over thirty now. Men at the Gaiety are some of the best looking on this planet -- so on the rare occasion that I've been asked if I "work" there I reply pleasantly and honestly.

 

But I must inquire as to when you go to Gaiety? The audience gets younger and better looking the later you stay. The nine o'clock Sat. show can be filled with 20-somethings out on the town before going to the clubs. This is how I started going. It was a nice place to kill time before going out.

 

Finally, re our last discussion. You said Matthew was spending alot of time talking with some "twink" when he could have been earning money. Chances are, the "twink" has the money and might enjoy spening it more on Matthew than on a pair of shoes at Kenneth Cole (roughtly the same amount). I think you consistently misread social situations, and have a pretty negative view of both buyers and sellers. It comes through in all of your posts. I admire the dancers at Gaiety, and think the buyers fairly smart in getting exactly what the desire, when they desire it. Unfortunately, I mostly desire shoes from Kenneth Cole, so Matthew will have to wait (LOL). Keep on posting -- Thanks AntNee

[Bilbo]

Dear Ready, I hope you are joking. If not, I would hardly call you a free man.

[ready4boi]

Littleantnee,

 

Thanks for your input. I agree there are young men watching the show at The Gaiety on a weekend although I've never seen a large number at any one given time. The lounge area is usually where I see even fewer younger guys. In fact, only a handful come to mind. I was completely shocked to later run into one in particular tricking on Eighth Avenue so I never second guess any of the ones I meet there. Matthew has nothing to do with this post.

[Guest LITTLEANTNEE]

readyforboi

Matthew has everything to do with this post. First, WallStreetKindOfGuy has been made to feel (either by himself, or by others) uncomfortable with his choices in life -- of which hiring someone to have sex seems to be just one part. My reply is to not allow anyone to "rain on your parade" and become more comfortable in your own skin, with your own decisions.

 

We are writing on a site devoted to "hustlers", and you hit us over the head with the obvious: that prostitution is a crime. Further you cling to the (misguided) notion that most young men (of which there are many -- in the lounge, too) at Gaiety are hustlers (not) and can, in fact, be bought quite cheaply (which, if true, should be fabulous for you -- but sounds quite nasty the way you put it).

 

You continue to sound very hostile about the reason we are all here, that we enjoy the company of men who offer a service for a price. Whether we participate, or watch on the sidelines, a healthy respect should be given to both the sellers and buyers. I think that just because a younger man attends the show, it should not be assumed that he is a seller. It is just as likely that he is a buyer. And regardless of what he is, I hope he is happy with his choices, makes informed decisions, and doesn't allow anyone else to make him feel badly. That's the message I want "John" (and you) to take away from what I am writing. Thanks for posting -- AntNee

[Guest Jake]

>Unfortunately,

>I mostly desire shoes from

>Kenneth Cole, so Matthew will

>have to wait (LOL).

 

Nothing unfortunate about liking Kenneth Cole shoes. I love them too. It's just that I think I have a few less pairs than you, that's all!

[Guest Quinte]

 

You would be surprised. Youngest 18. Oldest 60. Average 35-45. All very capable of "finding" that special someone. A majority of my clients are married, in the closet, experimenting for the first time, and none have been "ugly". I have always found something "beautiful". My search does not end at their faces either.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Quinte DuSoleil

 

http://www.rentboy.com/quinte

http://communities.msn.com/qdus

nubiandreams@hotmail.com

[ready4boi]

Littleantnee,

 

In my opinion, you need to lighten up a little like others posting messages on here. Nothing I posted was done in hostility. I was just sharing information for other readers' awareness. After all, I thought that this site is about letting other guys who hire escorts aware.

[Guest Quinte]

ready4boi, I am unsure if that was directed at me. Seeing as it was attached to my post, I shall only assume it was indeed for me. If it was, What are you talking about? totally lost me. I think you may have mistaken the tone of my post. Like others I was only giving an honest opinion of my experiences.

 

If it was not a response to me, then disregard this.

 

Dwell in peace,

Quinte DuSoleil

 

http://www.rentboy.com/quinte

http://communities.msn.com/qdus

nubiandreams@hotmail.com

[Guest LITTLEANTNEE]

"Ready" -- You and I go to different Gaietys and post on different M4M ER Message Centers. I bet that all of this stuff about self-respect and feeling comfortable with your choices must be disturbing the "Consumer Reports" guide to hustling and being hustled that you post on. If you've read any of my other posts (aside from the ones to you), I'm generally a light and funny kinda guy. But on the M4M ER Site I post on, I have found a lot of interesting human expression -- centered around the topic of our sexuality -- that I've learned much from. That you read this site and don't "get it" (the whole picture) explains why you can go to Gaiety and see most younger men there as hustlers when they're (probably) not.

 

Anyway, Jake -- shoe shopping anytime, babe. The dressing rooms at Diesel are also filled with fascinating possibilities (may be we can trade secrets). See you Sat -- AntNee

[Guest LITTLEANTNEE]

To "Will", "Bilbo", "WallStreet", or anyone else reading all of this thread -- and the website in general. Am I wrong in this ongoing thing with "ready?" I first came to this site for the Gaiety reviews. I stayed because I found the conversation fascinating. I strongly identify with a lot of what is said here, and especially this thread because I dealt with issues present in my own life (I found the stuff Will commented on particularly insightful). But I hate all this stuff about "prostitution being illegal." As consenting adults involved in this site aren't we already aware of this? And to be taken to task on this issue by "Ready" is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black. Isn't it? Or am I just a cranky young queen? This site seems to be so much more than "letting guys who hire escorts aware." Thanks for posting -- Now any fabulous funny stories about Kirk/Voltaire/Dean we have'nt heard before?

[ready4boi]

Littleantnee,

 

Everybody who hires escorts or is an escort has different experiences. If the fact I thought this site was about sharing those experiences with others means I'm going to unintentionally offend them then I guess I don't get it. I never posted a message to personally insult anyone.

[Guest Jake]

Hey Antnee - I wish I had a funny story about Kirk to share - as far as I know, I never met the guy. As to the legality/illegality of prostitution and the relative posting about it, it sort of takes the fun out of the whole thing. I could never figure out why guys who have such strong feelings on the subject seem to find their ways here. I'd say about a quarter of my M4M sex would fall under the prostitution category, but what the hell - a guys got to have fun.

[Will]

Antnee, Will here. In response to your post I just wanted to thank you for your kind words and to share a few thoughts about why I visit this site.

 

Most important to me, this site is interesting. For me, what is interesting is fun, and what is not interesting is not fun. That's why I find it fun to talk with others about the whole field of issues that M4M raises. I'm not at all interested in the Gaiety reviews, for example, because I don't have fun in strip clubs. If others do, fine. I certainly won't complain about the Gaiety reviews or the many threads having to do with dancers. I just skip them because there are often plenty of other things to read.

 

That's why I really don't understand why guys like Jake seem to get angry, or at least impatient, with the word-mongers like me. All they have to do is skip reading what I write.

 

The most important aspect of M4M Escorts Review for me -- and I may be the only one who feels that way -- is this: It is the ONLY place in my wide and varied experience of life where I can actually exchange IDEAS about sex with other intelligent, thoughtful, gay men. I like ideas. I like them a lot. For me it is fun to try to express them and it is fun to try to understand what other people are trying to say as well.

 

For me, sex is not a simple genital act. Sex suffuses every aspect of my consciousness. Sexuality gives my imagination its power, it fires my life with creativity, it endows my instincts with love. Because my sexuality is homosexuality, though, there are limited venues for the quick, routine, and easy-going give-and-take that keeps it from gaining too much importance in my consciousness. I cannot tell you how many times -- tens and maybe hundreds of thousands -- I have sat with my straight men friends at the lunch table and listened to them discuss the same kinds of ideas about (staight) sex that we talk about here. And I don't mean just the naughty parts. My straight friends take it for granted that it is normal, healthy, and unremarkable to integrate their sexual lives with other routine aspects of their lives. To them, it is no privilege at all. To me, that opportunity is as rare as diamonds. Thus I cherish the gem that is M4M, even when there's a big fight going on, as there is now. (Just now, I apologized to HooBoy, Our Hero, for something I said based on a misunderstanding.) Whatever else one might say about the men who visit this board. nobody could accuse them of being boring, or indifferent, or dull!