Raising expectations with prices

[Guest Matt In Vancouver]

Hey now wait a minute, don't use my name as a battering ram, and I never said I didn't have 'attitude', I have tons of attitude, most of it good, and personable, but sometimes I can be a pretty cranky bitch: ) Just ask some of my regulars who've seen me in the morning: O

I state what I do on these treads for a bit of perspective. My opinions are my own, and reflect no-one elses, nor should they be used to put down other escorts who don't share the same ideals.

I'm not sure what your experiences have been like in the past, but as I've stated, if you've recieved bad service, a) post a review, and yes you are opening yourself up to critisism, and possible harrasment,but your a big boy you can take it, I know it can be harsh, I've been on the end of a Skeptic wielded stick a few times. Your other option is b)move on and hire a new guy, someone you think is a fit, eventually you will find the one that is in your price range, that fits your requirments.

Your not going to buy a Mercedes having never driven one, just because the manufacturer tells you it's the best car around, yet that little red Saturn you drove last week had a lot of spunk... get it, ok maybe a bit on the weird side as far as analogies go, but it made sense as I wrote it: )

Again, don't use me as a battering ram, I don't want to be the martha stewart escort from hell that everyone talks about: )

ok I'm digging a hole here... bail, bail now while you still can

Matt

[Guest Jayinla]

I usually prefer to stay away from these type of messages, however i think i should offer an escort view of the problem. I have seen it first hand, many escorts do not do a thing with their clients, however, my experience has been that they tell the clients what they do and do not do. I am sure that is not the case all the time. Prices will always reflect the market and will only be as high as the market bears. I recommend that you find an escort that you like and have a good time with, then ask him for references of guys he knows or has worked with. YOur escort, usually will be able to find you a good guy. But keep in mind, escorts in a sense are like cars, If you want to pay for a yugo, the ride will not be like a mercedez, however, sometimes, you pay a mercedez prize, and you get a lemon.

Good luck guys, see you soon.

jay, http://members.aol.com/i4hireaz

[Guest man2man4u40]

Speaking as an escort, part of the problem is that clients are usually "too shy" about telling the escort exactly what they want or expect.

 

Although it is not always practical, for the few appointments where I've had to travel a distance the client and I have mutually agreed on a "contract". It's not formal but outlines basics such as fees (hourly/overnight/portions of hours), what the escort will (e.g, kissing, toys, top/bottom/whatever) & will not do (e.g, drugs, S&M, barebacking, etc.). It can also cover things like what you're willing to pay the escort if he shows up and isn't what you expected.

 

Because we mutually agree upon it, the client and I can focus on an enjoyable time and not WORRY about someone being ripped off, etc.

 

Nothing will ever be fullproof but by spelling things out up front reputable escorts and their clients can both make sure there are as few surprises as possible.

 

--Jack

man2man4u40@hotmail.com

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-00 AT 01:54PM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-00 AT 01:53 PM (EST)

 

Matt,

 

>I guess I will never become

>a world class escort, because

>you are percieved somewhat by

>the rate you charge, and

>some think this equals level

>of service.

 

And they are dead wrong. Just like wine there is very little correlation between price and quality, rather the correlation is usually between price and attitude. Often the more expensive labels are diapppointing because the price promises so much that is rarely delivered.

 

Matt, do'nt sell yourself short, if you not yet world class you must surely be a candidate, all this based on totally second hand information for me -- but I place credence in the traffic on this site for the most part. BTW I'm not sure what it means to be World Class other than expensive with attitude -- so maybe your not a candidate, thankfully. I do understand: excellent, good, fair, poor and total loss along with fair priced and outrageous. Those are really what matter to me. There aren't many, if any, so called World Class escorts that I'd consider flying across the continent for the sole purposes of seeing, although a weekend in Vancouver is a nice extra.

 

 

 

>You can find

>a guy in almost any

>price range that will provide

>exceptional sevice, and you can

>find total losses in any

>price range.

 

Just like a wine with one difference -- you can cook with an inferior wine.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-00 AT 01:56PM (EST)[p]Duplicate post.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Merlin,

 

Please don't be reluctant to post reviews of your experiences just because they represent your prespective of the escort.

 

All reviews represent only the contributor's perspective. That is why it is important for a reviewer to give some indication of his personal preferences and proclivities. This allows the reader to factor those into the review. It is also important to have multiple reviewers for the same escort to get a broader picture.

 

Contributed reviews are the life blood of this site, without them we are all cursing the dark without a candle. So please reconsider.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

My experience does not reflect yours I am happy to report. Although my experience is limited to about eight or ten escorts, with the exception of two, all have been great guys - some better than others but all sincere and attentive, none asking for money up front, none in a rush out the door. All asking reasonable prices too, in my view -- $150-$200.

 

Maybe I've just been lucky or maybe consulting these reviews really pays off.

 

Reading the reviews, it appears to me that more, not all, but more negative reviews seem to come from NY and CA. This observation might be erroneous on my part or it might be a selection effect because of the disproportionate number or escorts in those locations or it might just be accurate and reflect a jaded attitude found in the fast lane lifestyles of these places. It also seems that the quoted prices seem higher in these areas as well --maybe there is a correlation here.

 

My experiences have been limited to Orlando, DC and to a lesser extent Boston -- where I met some really great guys, after doing my research.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: New rating terminology?

 

>Maybe we need a review category

>between "very good" and "outstanding"?

> I know this reeks

>of grade inflation,...

 

No offense Red, but you're right this suggestion reeks! We are starting to slice the boloney a little too thin here. If we are under utilizing the current categories I dont think we need more.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

torjon

 

>It didn't take

>me long to know that

>an escort that didn't meet

>my needs or wasn't fun

>to be with just didn't

>get a return visit...it didn't

>mean he deserved a bad

>review...just wasn't for me. Simple,

>methinks. I have a lot

>of trouble with damaging a

>man's reputation and career because

>of a lack of chemistry

>or whatever, so I don't

>write negative reviews ...

 

Have to agree with you here, no reason to trash someone's rep if they are sincere and honest but the chemistry just isn't there or even if it is just a bad day, assuming you can tell this. I reserve my negative reviews for the irresponsible or the malicious who prey on us clients. Ive had two negative experiences, one a no show after stringing me along who I reviewed negatively and a second fellow who just did not have his act together at all -- was a nice guy but seemed to have more problems than I knew about. He had not been reviewed before and I felt I really did not know enough about him or his situation to soil his reputation with his only review. He had no ill intent that I could discern so I put it off to a bad day -- maybe worse a bad life. Either way I did not want to add to his burdens based on my one experience with him. Its more important to be a compassionate human being than a critical client if you think compassion is called for. We only pass this way once and we are known by our actions.

[Guest stef4vegas]

I agree that is not that easy that we think.

But I hear most of the time that when people are surprised by the service, they do not tell the guy " I’m sorry but I want to stop ".

Just tell the guy that you're not satisfied; just be polite, I guess it won't be a problems.

I never got this problem before, but I understand how it can be in this situation.

In somebody is not pleased with me, first of all, I’ll feel it before he'll say something, and I’ll stop first. But I again agree that everybody is different and that the reviews on this Hooboy site are not 100 true.

And my point of view here is that even if the guy are 10 greats reviews, and you didn't like his services, for whatever the reason, (not stupid of course), you should write a review and explain clearly what's happened. It will be the best way to discover the bad "greats review" and the true.

Also if the escort get pissed, well I think the review was true, because he's not really smart.

[Guest Matt In Vancouver]

HEY you stole my analogy! but yours was better!

quote stealing hussy: )

matt

[Bilbo]

I hate to say it, but I would bet that the city with the largest percentage of bad reviews vs. all reviews would be my own dear Houston. And escort fees here are generally lower, it would seem, than elsewhere. I used to keep a weekly eye on the fees situation, and they always seemed to average and median around $100 plus or minus $10, with only a scant handful weighing in at $150 or $200.

[Bilbo]

Of course, if the contract is on paper and you sign it, it certainly would stand up in court - long enough to convict you in some states of prostitution. And maybe one of "our" lawyers might tell us whether it would also constitute the equivalent of "transporting young gulls across state lions for immortal porpoises"?

[Guest squaddie]

I have been using escort services for the past thirty years. If I believe the asking price is too high I give the escort a miss. I do not haggle over price. If an escort believes he is worth $300 dollars an hour for 'run of the mill', good luck to him, but he won't be getting it from me Over the years it has become easier to 'feel' what is the correct price to pay.

 

It is also essential before meeting for the first time to make sure both know what is wanted and expected. If an escort informs me prior to booking he will not provide a service, that is fine, I don't expect it. However, if I was told a service would be provided and then it isn't - no tip and no return visits. I would have thought it would be in the escorts best interest to cultivate repeat satisfied clients whenever possible.

 

I prefer to stay with an escort I like, and click with, rather than engage a different one each time. I pay what I believe is a fair price and if I was satisfied and want to see him again, I give a good tip. On further visits this ensures I get good service without being ripped off. I don't mind paying the fee plus a decent tip when I know he is worth it. I do not expect a Rolls Royce for the price of a Mini.

 

I have only recently discovered this site and have posted only one review. That escort did what he promised, made me happy and wanting to see him again. I wanted everyone to know he was good and worth a visit. I think if I had a bad experience I would post that as well. As for those inbetween, I don't think I would bother. I read the reviews because I want to know who is worth a visit and who to avoid. There are enough escorts who give their clients a very good time, more than my time and budget can cope with. I would be willing and happy to visit an escort who has had multiple good reviews and would expect a good time. I would avoid those with a bad review because I wouldn't want to risk $200 on them

 

If clients who post reviews do so only for the good or the bad, then the inbetweens do not get the free publicity which can help to keep them giving a mediocre service.

[Guest Croix]

Expectations -- an hour has been fixed at 60 minutes for a long time. That is not likely to change (except for the guys who nonchalantly extend for 10 minutes, realising the client will feel that as a non-rushed, extra value). And, how much consentual activity one can experience in an hour is fairly fixed over time as well. Quality is not going to increase by 25% just because the rate did. All that one can expect is that it is a higher rate for the same time, same stuff. How we deal with fast inflation is the issue.

 

Prices -- Using the last 3 months as an analysis period, I have seen 10 different guys ranging from neophyte to top of the crop porn star, with rates ranging from under $100 to over $300. For all the palaver about price=quality, which some have a vested interest in promoting, I see very little correlation. There is no standard to compare or set rates for X quality at Y price. Some, like one chatterbox I am waiting to meet, will set rates that are a fair value for a fun time that will not leave clients' asses in a pucker over price. Some, who are more worldly versions of the Gaiety stars, charge whatever they think they can get away with. Fancy marketing goes a long way to sway perception, but the reality is just what you would expect ... average. And, average is just what most client/escort meetings are.

 

Reviews -- If every client were to review every session with every guy, we (not to mention Hoo) would be inundated with redundant, mundane material making it impossible to find what is new, exciting, or important. It is only natural to report on the exceptional. It is a given that the unseen is all the other meetings, which were, as one should expect, just average. The exception would be the guy who is little known. An honest review (complete as to facts, experience, and client profile) is, of course, valuable. With so many subjective variables, one client's satisfactory, or even unsatisfactory, might be someone else's outstanding thing.

 

Solution -- I doubt there will ever be any general agreement. Those who can afford inflated prices are bound to be disappointed more often than not, if they are thinking price=quality. Those who cannot afford those rates are almost certain to be disappointed, if they think that is going to get something spectacular. Whatever criteria of physical, personality, rapport and performance a client wants can be found at $200 or less for an outcall. Ok, say $220, let the guy take a taxi one-way. The recent trend (and why is a good question! as there is nothing economically outrageous happening, except for this) makes it more important to review more guys in yesterday's range. I, for one, am attempting to stop salivating over the newly inflated guys and find a comparable companion in the lower price range. The continuum of quality is the same - believe me. Don't know that I will, but I have even considered even writing once to some of these guys saying "Hey, you look great and sound exciting. At $... I will get out my appointment book if you ever feel that that is a fair rate for you company." How are they going to know if some pay them and the rest say nothing?

[HooBoy]

A while back, I decided to delete Rates.

 

The feedback caused me to rescind the decision in two days.

 

I still think it was a good idea.

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[Rod Hagen]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-00 AT 00:04AM (EST)[p]Ok, one more time: the Goddamn market will bear what the Goddamn market will bear. Whether an escort asks $100 or $500 for an hour, he asks it because people pay it.

 

Having sex with professionals is not an inalienable right.

 

The average hourly rate for a top quality escort in LA is $200, in NYC it's $250-$300, same in Miami. In Chicago and Las Vegas it's a little less. Anyway, some who are not "Top Quality" may attempt to charge Top-Quality rates. They wont be escorting for long, and unfortunately some folks like you, Cynic, are the casualties caught in that interim.

 

If I pay $500 for a room at Shutters on the Beach and it isn't as plush as an equally-priced room at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel, do I piss and moan? No, I move on. Have I become a typical SoCal slacker, too passive to assert myself? No, I just have common sense enough to move on. Cynic, too bad you do not.

[Guest Croix]

A case could certainly be made to treat rates like phone numbers. Print only what is publicly advertised.

 

If a guy publishes rates on a site (and some do not, you have to contact them) he is fixing that rate. Some will bite, others will say what a pity. Example, Michael Vincenzo posted his travel plans and web address. Looked at his site, saw the pics, wow, an ass you would like to stick your whole head into. At $200 I would have booked him a year out for a trip to NY. I might even have booked a hotel in DC to see what mischief I could stir up there. But, at $300. Pity, no contact. (Don't tell me he's a porn star ... I don't see the movies.) (Pardon me for digressing a tad, but he is gorgeous.)

 

If a guy does not publish rates, then there is some flexibility for him and the client. Printing unpublished rates here might well disadvantage both escorts and clients by precluding contacts in which they might have made a mutually agreeable arrangement. I saw a truly egregious example of this last week. In April the escort posted a rate of $150 on a communal site. In May the rate was $200. When I wrote to him in June, he wrote that his rate was $225. When I saw him the second time a week later (the first was an overnight), he said the rate was $250. I told him he was way over the line, no way. He then explained that he saw some guys charging $200 and some $250, so he decided to plop into the "middle" at $225. But he will charge $250 plus if he thinks the client has money and will pay - or $200 if he thinks that's all he can get. Guess he forgot about $150 or $175. And, I assure you, there was not one thought of quality considered in his wiggly rate structure. Contacting them, especially by email, gives a chance to introduce, get acquainted, and negotiate ... something that something that might serve all parties better.

[Rod Hagen]

POSTING PRICES

 

I do not post my prices on my webpage. In the days when I communicated with potential clients over instant messages on AOL I was also not very forthcoming. On the phone I will tell you anything you'd like to know.

 

The internet and print ads are where clients can learn about me. The phone is where they will, or wont, connect with me. If the client saw my rate was $xxx on my webpage, he may disregard me out of hand. In fact many of my regulars have told me that they would have done exactly that. But the phone is where I will charm you. The phone is where the conversation often ends with the client saying something like "Gee, I never expected to have such an interesting conversation. I am surprised you know so much about (fill in the blank). Anyway, really looking forward to spending the evening with you on Sunday. And thanks again for a great chat."

 

If an escort has an even remotely engaging personality he may be losing business by posting his rates, especially if they are high. If he's just eye candy, he has nothing to lose by doing so. -Hagen

[HooBoy]

RE: POSTING PRICES

 

Rod,

 

I think you made an analogy of hotels and their rates.

 

I NEVER pay rack rate at a hotel and I always get upgrades.

 

With escorts, I always pay rack rate...and I usually get upgrades because I'm a nice guy. :-)

 

However, I wish I didn't have to post rates here because of what you said. Besides, like the price of gasoline, the demand may go up or down depending on the market. I think posting rates only hurts the escort and the client.

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[Rod Hagen]

RE: POSTING PRICES

 

Uhhh, what's a Rack Rate?

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: POSTING PRICES

 

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-00 AT 07:50AM (EST)[p]HooBoy,

 

My first reaction was very negative to your previous message about not posting rates in the reviews. However, after thinking it over, and it didn't take too much thought, I believe that your idea was right on and that we are all probably the worse off for it.

Publishing rates certainly does add to the upward spiral in rates as escorts see what the market is and one segment of the market is reflected in the reviews. (This is one reason business don't publish employee salaries.)

 

I don't select escorts by rate, but I do use rates to eliminate them from consideration. I select escorts primarily for the following reasons, in order,: appearance, what they are into, enthusiasm, willingness to communicate, positive reviews, if available, oh and of course availability. Although reviews appear quite low in the list, they are usually a necessary component unless unusual circumstances prevail (such as a no-show causing me to make a cold call on short notice) or if one or more of the other criteria overwhelm me so I throw caution to the wind.

 

I personally like to see prices on escort web pages, because it is my first filter -- the immediate elimination test. So I guess Rod Hagen has figured me out, but I have him figured out too -- one of those sexy sweet talking guys who'll have you out of your pants in no time and you throwing your wallet at him. (This is meant to be a compliment for sure. )

 

I don't haggle with escorts. I ask their rate and decide to sign up or not -- this is not some Mideast Bazaar. The last thing I want is to piss of or otherwise dampen the attitude of someone I want to have fun with -- seems counterproductive to me.

 

What the hell is the point of saving $25 - 50$ dollars and compromising your evening -- what is the priority here? If I want to save money I'll stay home and rent a movie. That is not to say that I blythly throw $300 at an hour of diversion either -- haven't yet and dont expect to unless I think the earth is likely to move under might feet for the entire hour. (No, that doesn't mean I'll pay $300 in California.)

 

And if I really enjoyed my experience, and I think there is a possibility that we might meet again, I add a little extra in the hope that he'll remember me a little more fondly.

[Guest craigrc]

One issue I don't see anyone addressing is that the "market" people here keep referring to can't operate properly with respect to a product or service whose supply is restricted by government regulation. That certainly is the case with respect to the service we are discussing. All other things being equal, one should expect the average price of a service to be higher (and the quality lower) when the government creates an artificial scarcity by threatening or penalizing buyers and sellers of the service. When one uses the phrase "what the market will bear" in this case, one is referring to a market that is skewed by government control.

[HooBoy]

RE: POSTING PRICES

 

>Uhhh, what's a Rack Rate?

 

Rack rate is a hotel term used to describe the published room rate.

 

I typically do not pay rack rate and I always will ask for a suite after I find out what their very lowest price is (at the same price). With a smile in my voice and a little levity, I get it, if suites are available. Or I just move on to another hotel that will give it to me.

 

Always call the hotel, not the 800 number and ask for the front desk - not reservations. The Front Desk people wield the power.

 

Happy sleeping! :-)

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[Rod Hagen]

RE: POSTING PRICES

 

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-00 AT 10:05PM (EST)[p]>I find out what their

>very lowest price is (at

>the same price). With

>a smile in my voice

>and a little levity, I

>get it,

 

No offence to you Hooboy, but I have always considered haggling, or whatever name you give to your technique, to be tacky.

 

If one can not afford First, Fly business class. If he can not afford Business, fly coach. If he can't afford Coach, drive there. If a car is not within his means, he should take a bus. And if the bus ticket is too pricey, STAY HOME (or change jobs).

 

Also, consider this: before corporate expense accounts, and the ridiculous lines of credit that banks now extend to nearly anyone, allowed the upper middle class access to some of the perks originally reserved for the legitimate upper class, those perks were priced much more fairly than they are now. Ritzy Hotels would not be able to charge $500 a night for a non-suite if the majority of their guests were not passing the bill onto their business accounting department. 21 club (best $30 cheeseburger in the world) would not be fucking their customers except for the fact that most meals are business meals charged to credit cards belonging to IBM, United, or whoever, and therefore their inexcusible prices probably wont impact those actually enjoying the meal. And 21 Club, et al, knows this.

 

My point: the bitter irony is that the price that Hooboy bargains them to, though also expensive, is most likely a bit closer to the price they would be charging without the modern trend of "writing it off": expensive enough to feel luxurious on a personal, not on a corporate, scale. If I can't afford a meal, a hotel room, a whatever, I don't bargain, I walk away (and if I desire it strongly I vow mentally to return, someday, and buy two of whatever it is).

 

Lastly, please view this in the original context of complaints about escort rates skyrocketing. Escorts are luxury items. If you can't afford an intelligent man with class who wears a handsome face on top of ripped muscle (like Talvin for example, a man I would pay a couple of grand myself to fuck, if he'd be willing), hire a non-ripped brainy man or eye candy. If that's out of your reach, hire hustlers. if you can't afford hustlers, cruise aol. If you don't have money to pay AOL, STAY HOME AND JACK OFF. :-)

 

Craigrc, regarding illegal items being likely to be of poorer quality but pricier due to the very fact of their non-sanctioned status: this suggests that during prohibition gin joints, like my 21 Club, served really bad alcohol (I think that was the case), at really high prices (was that also the case then? I have no idea).

 

Prostitution is tolerated, largely, in Holland. Yet based on this site I do not see that Brian, Arnaud, or Bobby's rates are exceedingly lower than those here. Why is that do you think Craig?

 

-Hagen*

*The voice of reason.