how to handle paying when its a bad time

[Rod Hagen]

Hey Trickie, please do not feel I was contradicting you or your feelings. I believe you were screwed over. A fair fee would have been sufficient, and there is the possibility he was husting you. Sorry.

 

I simply wanted to comment on the dolts who think exchanging gunfire, or the threat of it, is a way to settle differences. Also, to comment on the supposition that escorts are likely to be dangerous and/or on drugs. Fuck that. Lastly, I wanted to see what folks though of clients canceling longer-standing and fiscally significant appointments, such as overnights, at the last minute.

 

Again, in no way was I trying to belittle what had happend to you or to try to correct your sense of what you SHOULD have done, opposed to what you did do. Sorry that was not clear. Better luck next time Trickie, I hope. -Hagen

[Guest gr8guy]

Here's a possible suggestion: What if, in the course of the phone call to discuss arrangements, you mention at the end, "Oh, by the way, if we don't hit it off, I'll give you $____ for your time." This might be a bit awkward, but it also eliminates any future problems.

[Guest michaelnnj]

I believe everyone has sort of missed the point here and are blaming the client for not wanting to pay the escort! If the escort can't even get it up, and is clearly not interested in going thru with the session after things have been agreed upon first, I don't understand why the escort expects to get paid. I try to make it very clear beforehand what kind of scene I am looking for, and go as far as asking if the escort will get hard and if he will come, will he kiss, etc, because if I am paying then I want what I want. If the escort doesnt get into my scene, then I don't hire him. If he agrees, but will not perform when he arrives, then I don't think he deserves even cabfare. For what? Just so he won't make a scene when I ask him to leave? If he sends me a picture, and doesnt look like his picture anymore, why should I be expected to give him any money? I don't understand the thought process behind the fact that the escort has taken off his clothes, therefore he needs to get paid.Its unfortunate that every escort is not reputable, but that's a fact of life, just like every client isn't reputable.BUt for those of us who are, we would like to get what we pay for. And while we are on the subject, can someone explain to me why escort fees are going thru the roof?? All of a sudden, it seems that fees are starting at $250 and $300, and that doesnt include any added extras, like kissing, which is getting kind of outrageous! Ok, I vented....guess I feel a little better! Mike

[steve]

Mike,

 

I agree with you completely. Escorts who won't fulfill their end of the bargain i.e. won't kiss, won't fuck, won't cum after agreeing to do so, don't deserve a dime. I know the typical escort response is going to be "you're paying for his time", but that is pure b.s. If I'm going to an area where there are an abundance of escorts, I will contact a few of them and ask them specific questions and then I make a decision. IMO, if the guy doesn't do what is agreed upon and I have chosen him over another escort, then why should he get paid anything? I won't even bother addressing the escorts who misrepresent themselves. They deserve nothing, either.

[Guest VersatilePaul]

Yep - I agree with you Mike and Steve.

 

I'm not aware of any profession/service that expects payment for services not rendered as agreed upon.

 

VPaul

[Rod Hagen]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-00 AT 03:34AM (EST)[p]I agree that there is nothing to be gained from the paying-for-my-time argument. My rates are hourly or for blocks of time-such as overnights-and not by the activity: eg $50 to suck me, $40 to kiss etc.

 

HOWEVER, most escorts then realize that what we previously discussed with the client is what the client wants to do during that hour/overnight; otherwise we wouldn't have discussed it. You said you wanted to kiss, we should kiss. Wanna get fucked? That's what I am here for.

 

If someone asks you for more money for activities they already agreed to, guess what: you were hustled! Is this so hard to understand? You hired a hustler. Congratulations.

 

Escorts should live up to their end of the bargain, there's no question about that. If they said the like to kiss, you should expect them to kiss. If they are a bottom, ta da, you should expect them to do so at the same rate.

 

But be logical for Christ Sakes. Paul, this isn't a fucking cab ride we are talking about, or a meeting with your accountant: escorts are human, and THEREFORE the activities you desire are subject to occasional physical limitiations: Tell the escort that his dick isn't NEARLY as nice as the last guy's you hired, and enjoy watching his boner disappear. His boner goes after your insult, then so does his ability to TOP you as he indicated he would. If a bottom-escort has an upset stomach and can only be pounded for so long, should you throw him in the hallway, penniless? Fuck that.

 

Steve, if you are meeting with escorts who aren't willing to do what they agreed to, either because they want more money, or they are inexpilicably stubborn, perhaps YOU should rethink the research methods you use to find the escorts (huslters) you've hired.

 

Sigh, this board is getting a bit, well, boring. -Hagen

[Rod Hagen]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-00 AT 03:32AM (EST)[p]> All of a sudden,

>it seems that fees are

>starting at $250 and $300,

>and that doesnt include any

>added extras, like kissing, which

>is getting kind of outrageous!

 

Michael, regarding escalating rates: "The market will bear what the market will bear". If people pay escorts $300/hour, or $2000/overnight, escorts will ask for it. Imagine a big stock crash, many clients lose lots of money: do you think escorts will continue to ask that much if they have no hopes of receiving it? No way dude.

[Guest VersatilePaul]

Rod -- sorry, I don't agree with you on this one.

If the escort in this scenario could not perform as agreed upon within the first 3 minutes of this encounter with the poster (trickiedick), then why should he be paid. I'm not saying that this would hold true in all instances where for whatever reason there is no "chemistry" between the escort and the client. Then again, if the escort can't perform due to an upset stomach or what have you, why should the client pay. While it's unfortunate, it is not due to any lack of living up to their agreement on the part of the client.

 

Conversely, if the escort for whatever reason cannot get the client "off", even though he tried/worked his best to meet expectations, then I would chalk that up as a loss for the client and he should pay.

 

I agree to disagree with you on this one.

 

In addition, I also agree with your comment that this board is becoming "boring". There is a lack of postings requesting and receiving information on a broad scale regarding escorts and escorting, and that's what I'm really interested in.

 

VPaul

[Guest trickiedick]

i am sorry you find this boring...but this was a legitimate question about an experience that i did not handle well and wanted to know how to handle....i think this board is about real questions/concerns that we all have about any escort related thing...

 

we all are not as experienced as some and thats why i was searching out answers from all of u...

 

obviously the response this got shows this is an important and heated topic in the world of escorts and the men that hire them...

[Guest Billyboy]

No Play, NO Pay. I don't think escorts are different from any other proffesion in this case. You don't deliver,you don't get squat! And I don't think there should be "additional (extra) charges". Bottom line fee for bottom line. You are what you say, or you don't get paid. Period. I definately wouldn't get abusive or violent with ANY client. I think that is the childish way to behave.

[Traveller]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-00 AT 10:15AM (EST)[p]Dude,

 

Settle down mama. The gun was a joke. Remember what those are?

 

Later.

 

PS. I've seen plenty of escorts whacked out on drugs or alcohol. They get cab fare. And remember, I handled Malik after some partying, so I'm not talking about just a little fucked up.

 

PPS. Whenever an escort has not been able perform (i.e., get hard because I am very explicit about what I want before they come over) they have only requested (or acquiesced to my suggestion of) cab fare. Also appropriate. It's gotta work both ways.

[Guest Billyboy]

Traveller, I don't even think cab fare is necessary.

[Guest red]

RE: Irrelevant chatter

 

I agree with VersatilePaul that the Message Center seems to have lost its way. Dozens of messages natter on about potential (threatened?) romantic entanglements with escorts or criticize escorts for speaking their minds, while queries about specific escorts or categories of escorts remain unanswered. I had thought that the "deli" section was specificially reserved for questions seeking escort information---where guys with experience in a geographical area, or with certain types of escorts would assist the rest of us in learning more about them. Obviously, I am wrong. I still think Hooboy's site is of incredible assistance (if he believes in karma, his next life should be truly impressive), but the "client"-driven message center has become a disappointment.

[steve]

Rod,

 

The particular escort I am referring to specifically agreed to do certain acts in 2 different phone calls. When I got to his place, he couldn't the agreed upon things because he had another client in an hour, so I ended up spending about 15-20 mins with him. He still got paid his full amount. The only problem was, this site wasn't around 3 years ago when he ripped me off, so I couldn't research him.

[Guest Matt In Vancouver]

Ok I've been away for a while, but I have to comment on this thread.

If an escort shows up intoxicated or high, send him on his way, there is no excuse for this kind of unprofessionalism. If they can't arrange their 'partying' around their work schedule, they shouldn't be working.

If an agreement on what type of service is discussed, and a fee(which should NEVER EVER have extra fees attached, othewise tell him to get lost)and the escort does not meet the agreed scenario... no pay. Of course there are exceptions, if the scene isn't going to work within the first 15 minutes, stop it and say so, if you've been with the guy for a half hour and it doesn't seem to be working for whatever reason, that can't be treated the same way. I've personally had a couple of experiences where the client towards the end of our 'time' has said 'I'm sorry this isn't working for me'. Well I'm sorry but at that point it's a bit too late, If I've been performing all agreed upon activities, and it isn't working after a half hour, you should have said something sooner.

This rarely happens, but there are wankers in every walk of life.

My question though is, you've hired the escort and want a bottom, he shows up does his bottoming to the best of his abilities, but because of a bad curry he had the night before, is having a bit of trouble maintaining the hard core ass ramming you're dishing out. What can be said, shit happens (pun very much intended) it's an unfortunate fact of life, not everything works the way we want it too. If the escort is truly sorry about the situation after already starting the scene, and is still very much an active participant in the quest for some dick spitting, is that not good enough? I should hope so.

I know the horrible curry incident has happened to me personally, so I'm speaking for myself here, I notified the client as soon as I arrived that I was not 100% and said I would do my best, but after about 10 minutes, I just couldn't handle much more, so I said I was sorry and proceeded to masterfully suck his cock till he blew a great load.You cannot expect us to be super human, we are after all human, and we get ill, depressed, tired, cranky(not me ever: ) just like the rest of you. Have a bit of compassion,and try to view it from our perspective.

Thanx for listening. Did I go too far off topic?

Matt

[Rod Hagen]

>Traveller, I don't even think cab

>fare is necessary.

 

BrownNoser! :-)

[steve]

it's good to know that you followed through and advised the client upon your arrival. my situation was a bit different. my experience involved an escort who said he would top me and then said he couldn't do it because he had another client to meet with in an hour. I don't care - if an escort agrees to do certain things with/for a client and then backs out of it because of his choice, another client, etc., then he doesn't deserve the full fee.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-00 AT 10:24AM (EST)[p]I second OuterSider!! I can understand Sean's disappointment on a cancellation at the door or within 10 minutes -- but there is no excuse for the tantrum he admits to. One mark of an excellent escort, at least in my view, is that he exhibit grace and class. There have been several notable examples of those who do in the M4M reviews. A number of escorts are self confident enough to offer the option of a cancellation without fee in the first 5 - 10 minutes.

 

Clearly, by his own words, Sean fails to exhibit grace or class.

 

Fortunately, there are many good escorts out there to choose and for Sean there are many clients too -- just keep your valuables out of harms way.

[Guest Sean]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-00 AT 01:39PM (EST)[p]>I second OuterSider!! I can

>understand Sean's disappointment on a

>cancellation at the door or

>within 10 minutes -- but

>there is no excuse for

>the tantrum he admits to.

>One mark of an excellent

>escort, at least in my

>view, is that he exhibit

>grace and class. There

>have been several notable examples

>of those who do in

>the M4M reviews. A number

>of escorts are self confident

>enough to offer the option

>of a cancellation without fee

>in the first 5 -

>10 minutes.

>

>Clearly, by his own words, Sean

>fails to exhibit grace or

>class.

>

>Fortunately, there are many good escorts

>out there to choose and

>for Sean there are many

>clients too -- just keep

>your valuables out of harms

>way.

 

 

Especially if you are a client that is going to hire me to waste my time! You obviously didn't read the whole thread Tampa, this guy did this to other guys in the same week. He's a freak that gets his kicks by hiring Escorts to come to his apartment just to get a quick feel (10 mins) then pulls this I can't crap, I feel guilty for screwing around on my lover! PLEASE!! Then refuses to pay. Get real! My reviews speak VOLUMES about the amount of grace and class I have. May I suggest you take the time to read them

[Guest Matt In Vancouver]

I have had similar experiences to Sean, and there are some total tossers who get their kicks from copping a quick feel, but in all honesty Sean, and this is nothing against you, personally I don't see destroying his electronic equipment as a plausible solution to the problem.

Maybe a better option is to just not ever see him again.

I'm not trying to start an escort east/west war, so don't get me wrong, it's nothing against Sean, I just think there are better ways of handling these types of situations.

My pathetic bleeding heart, leftie, commie two cents.

Matt

[Traveller]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-00 AT 08:56AM (EST)[p]Hagan, with all of my reviews, of course I'm a BrownNoser; although, generally I prefer it if the escort douches prior to applying my proboscis.

 

And Sean, Dale Carnegie and you.

 

Later.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Response to Sean,

 

Oh! Sean, turns out I was very familiar with your face and reviews but had not

made the connection with the name. You caught my eye several months ago. See

below.

 

I read your reviews as you suggested and REREAD the thread paying special

attention to those segments relative to your story. Because I was taking strong

exception in public to your admitted action, I felt that I owed you that

courtesy.

 

First your reviews: they are excellent, I had read them in the past and made

note of them for future reference because I thought them impressive and you a

great looking guy -- one I'd be interested in meeting if I visited NYC. That was

a while ago and I must admit that I had not made the connection between that Sean

and the Sean who has authored several messages on the boards as of late,

including this one under discussion.

 

 

The second reading of the thread didn't change anything for me. While I

understand your being supremely pissed at the a--hole client and justifiably so,

I just don't accept your violent action was justified. I am no pacifist myself

and have been known for an explosive temper, particularly in my younger days.

However, I have come to realize that violence is only appropriate in combating

violence, certainly not as an expression of anger.

 

More to the point, this business depends on a certain level of trust and comfort

between client and escort. Your self-admitted action, and more so your

justification of it, does not foster that sort or trust or comfort.

 

As individuals our measure is taken not by how we sail calm seas, but rather by

how we sail troubled waters. It is easy to be an up-standing, easy-going,

honorable person in good times but more often than not our true character

surfaces in difficult times. (One notable positive example is that of Jake who

as we know went out of his way to help a client in serious need.)

 

Let me make it clear that I am not judging you as an individual for I don't know

you and if I did I certainly have no standing to be offering a judgment of you.

However, I do take exception to your violent act and even more so to your

enthusiastic justification of it. Your not the first escort to be ripped off nor

will you be the last, just as there are many clients who are ripped off by

unscrupulous escorts. That is a sad fact of life, as is the fact there are some

very unpleasant people in our society. All that we as individuals can hope to do

is to recognize that our attitudes and actions touch other people for good or

ill, just as theirs touches us. If we are to be one of the good guys we must

accept responsibility for our own actions and avoid letting unsavory individuals

dictate our standards of civility and behavior. In short our attitudes and

behavior must be grounded within us as well centered individuals and not dictated

by the provocations from the lowest slugs of life that we come into contact with.

 

Sean, I ask that you put aside momentarily the fact that you were wronged, for

surely you were, and that you became very angry because of it, with

justification. Leave the low-life client out of it too. Just consider yourself,

the kind of person you strive to be, and whether you want to be in control of

your behavior or you want it to be dictated by actors in your environment. I am

not preaching 'turn the other cheek', but rather who has ultimate control over

your own behavior -- sort of an ill-stated concept of eastern philosophy of the

self. Anyway, this is where I'm coming from. I hope you'll find some of what I

said worth pondering.

 

Having stated my disapproval of your violent action, I am wholeheartedly

supportive of some nonviolent sanction, even retribution, against the lowlife

client. Unfortunately, a suitable remedy is not obvious to me at the moment.

Publicly outing the person would violate the trust principle mentioned above, not

that he deserves to benefit from it, but because it would undermine the whole

escort business. It seems appropriate that escorts network privately to warn of

such scurrilous types.

 

Last, if you really feel the need to exhibit a display of anger that goes beyond

shouting, requiring some overt action on your part, and causing the errant client

some grief too, you might want to consider carrying a can of spray paint with you

and leaving a note on his door. This will send your message without any real

harm being done. It will provide suitable embarrassment, require some effort on

his part to remove it, all at minimal cost, and leave everything pretty much as

before the incident. I doubt he'd call you for a repeat after that.

 

Hope I've clarified my position on your action and wish you well with your other

clients. As for whether we ever meet in the future, I cant say how you'd feel

about it at this point -- but who knows?

[Guest Sean]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-00 AT 01:27AM (EST)[p]Thanks Tampa for taking the time to re read the thread and to respond in such a graceful manner. Also thank you for the compliment. As its been said here time and time again we "Escorts" are human and we have good days and we have bad days. This was a particular bad day and I was in no mood to be bullshitted. I think sticking a foot through his speaker requires a bit of time to re order the sub woofer and install it, same amount of of time to paint a door and about equal the amount of violence, wouldn't you agree? My God some of you sound as if I beat the crap out of the guy and all it was is a foot in his speaker!And a well deserved foot I might add considering he had done the same thing to a couple other guys in the same week. Please, if you are ever in NYC or the LA area look me up. I'd love to meet you.

 

Norma Ray

[Guest Sean]

Billy dear boy, You have the nerve to call me Childish, The way you handled a certain situation is BEYOND Childish. I think its time you had a private conversation in the Escorts section. Don't you think?

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Sean,

 

I appreciate having bad days, I occasionally suffer the same affliction and it can be difficult maintaining my grace through one and I also have no appetite for bullshit. Your definition of ‘putting a foot through a speaker ‘ appears to be more benign than mine, based on your description. Coming at this from my own history leads to a more extreme perspective. As I mentioned, in my youth I had a very intense temper, hard to excite, but once aroused an extremely intense but short-lived experience. My definition of putting a foot ... would be to stomp the sh-t out of it until it was nearly completely disintegrated or until I injured my foot or ankle, usually the latter. Fortunately, for my own good I mellowed with age, not my temper necessarily, but how I handle it.

 

Regarding the paint, I did not mean to advocate that as an acceptable practice in and of itself, only that if one was committed to a physical expression of outrage, it was a better choice than destroying an expensive belonging, which apparently you did not do.

 

I see that I have yet to persuade you to embrace my perspective on this issue -- not sure I really expected to... Anyway, I think we have pretty much beaten this horse to death -- maybe even put a foot through it.

 

Glad your still willing to meet me after this. I hope the opportunity arises for our paths to cross in person. Next time.

 

BTW, I loved Norma Ray -- she had balls.