Fair is fair, or is it?

[2hard2tame]

>>I would hope that "those of you who are new around here"

>have

>>enough intelligence to read both of our postings and decide

>>for themselves who is doing the fighting. It really all

>boils

>>down to the fact that if someone has the audacity to

>disagree

>>with your way of seeing things, and calls you on it, you

>can't

>>cope and get your balls in an uproar.

>

>zip, new or old here, it doesn't take much to see you are

>stoking the fire. I would suggest there are tamer ways to

>disagree. IMO it does look 'fighting' going on. Take this

>for what it is...just an observation, nothing more.

 

 

Its ok, we all know and understand, this is what Zips life boils down too. We gotta give him his weekly dose of flaming, so he doesn't up and die on us. Im sure Zip is a cool guy, I think he just needs to get laid.

 

 

*wink

[Guest zipperzone]

>zip, new or old here, it doesn't take much to see you are

>stoking the fire.

 

Sure I am - I'm not so stupid as to deny the obvious.

 

But I get a chuckle out of whatz-his-name declaring in print for all to see that he is going to take the higer ground and NEVER reply to me again - and them BOOM, he just can't resist. He seems to be compulsive about having the last word.

 

Let us not forget that this all started because he tried to tell us in his origial post that he never met with a client with the intention of having sex. I thought that was one of the dumbest statements I had ever read on this board, so I called him on it and said I thought it was BULL. Can you imagine an escort, who advertises himself as such, expecting a forum such as this, which is comprised mainly of men who hire escorts, to believe a word of what he said?

 

Well I guess that was too much for his delecate ears becasue he went off on a tangent and started calling me names. To the best of my recollection (without reviewing the whole correspondence) I refrained (with difficulty, Im sure) from calling him names in return.

 

Why is it when some people can't argue against a statement they fallback on name calling, such as "old, bored, troll, bitter" etc?

 

And he has a "military career" What ever happened to don't tell, don't ask. He had better pray that the military doesn't go on a search of escort sites. Then again - maybe the closest to the military he ever got was seeing Saving Private Ryan.

 

Is this a fight? I don't know. I don't consider it as such - if it is then it is tame in comparrison to some of our flame wars of earlier years. Lets not forget that anyone who does not care to read it always has the option to skip on by. Just like we all have the option to not stop and view a train wreck.

[2hard2tame]

Oh zippy.

Im down for a flame war.

}(

 

">He seems to be compulsive about having the last word."

 

 

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

"Let us not forget that this all started because he tried to

>tell us in his origial post that he never met with a client

>with the intention of having sex."

 

(First off all, we are not sex providers. Seems you have a wrong idea of just what we do.

Yes, sometimes that is included in what two consenting adults choose to do when together in such fashion, but as for me and my experience, thats almost a side note. Companionship, conversation and many others things happen. Thus is why I sell my time, and not on the street offering blow jobs for 20 dollars a pop.)

 

Just where did I say that? Seriously. Do we need to add delusional to the long list of things you are? rofl.

 

 

 

 

 

">Well I guess that was too much for his delecate ears becasue

>he went off on a tangent and started calling me names. To the

>best of my recollection (without reviewing the whole

>correspondence) I refrained (with difficulty, Im sure) from

>calling him names in return."

 

 

First of all, you really need to go back to school, or invest in a spell checker. How serious do you expect anyone to take you when you have the grammar and spelling of a 12 year old?

 

*delicate

*because

*original

*comparison

 

Now, if you see an animal that walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells, acts and lives like a duck...its a damn duck.

You are always on here, running people off, talking down to them and talking shit about this site and everyone in general. You cant go one day without arguing with someone. THAT MAKES YOU BITTER!!! LOL!!!!

Jesus, when was the last time you hired anyone, or do you just sit here and talk shit and judge people? I mean, do you even HAVE a job? God.

 

 

 

">Why is it when some people can't argue against a statement

>they fallback on name calling, such as "old, bored, troll,

>bitter" etc?"

 

Well usually, that would mean they have nothing else better to say, but in this case, it was said because it is true. Ever hear the saying "if you have nothing nice to say, shut the hell up?". Learn it, live it.

 

 

 

">And he has a "military career" What ever happened to don't

>tell, don't ask. He had better pray that the military doesn't

>go on a search of escort sites. Then again - maybe the closest

>to the military he ever got was seeing Saving Private Ryan."

 

 

 

Yes, I do. I have been in since I was 17, and I just turned 24. I have spend 1 year and a half in Iraq, and thankfully wasnt wounded. I am still in, and have just been transferred to a new assignment. I spent 2 years in the 82nd, and have been Airborne Infantry the whole time.

Funny, you mention Saving Private Ryan. That movie was a great inspiration. I thought you were a shitty person as it is, but damn, you just sunk a whole new low. Even the person who is shuffling papers in the fucking Navy should be respected and not have stupid comments like that which you just spewed. Now, on my next combat tour, I hope you come with so you can see for yourself its not a joke.

 

 

">Is this a fight? I don't know. I don't consider it as such -

>if it is then it is tame in comparrison to some of our flame

>wars of earlier years. Lets not forget that anyone who does

>not care to read it always has the option to skip on by. Just

>like we all have the option to not stop and view a train

>wreck."

 

ugh, what did I tell you about misspelling everything.

 

*comparison.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Silly old man, you haven't a clue do you? I wasn't going to even bother. I mean, every time I type in response to the shit that spews from your immature, wrinkled mouth I feel sick. I understand that there are those of you who are reading this wondering why i do this. heres why. I am tired of this old fool being allowed to run his mouth to everyone. I wont put up with it, and if he doesn't chill, I bet his account mysteriously stops working. He does nothing positive, and I am tired of holding my mouth. he needs to leave.

[Guest zipperzone]

First of all to you.... My recent post was in reply to a post made by PWIT. The fact that you had to jump in and answer it shows the level of paranoia you operate at.

 

>(First off all, we are not sex providers. Seems you have a

>wrong idea of just what we do.

 

For someone who is so attuned to other people's spelling, perhaps you need a spellchecker yourself, or are you so used to being the first off that you confuse off with of?

 

>Yes, sometimes that is included in what two consenting adults

>choose to do when together in such fashion, but as for me and

>my experience, thats almost a side note. Companionship,

>conversation and many others things happen. Thus is why I sell

>my time, and not on the street offering blow jobs for 20

>dollars a pop.)

>

>Just where did I say that? Seriously. Do we need to add

>delusional to the long list of things you are? rofl.

 

Yes I am sure you provide companionship, conversation and many other things. But if you really think that men contact you for whatever services you offer, and do not expect to have sex, which I would venture to guess is their primary desire, then you are either living in Lulu Land or you are trying to create an inocent image in case you are targeted by law enforcement.

 

>">Well I guess that was too much for his delecate ears

>becasue

>>he went off on a tangent and started calling me names. To

>the

>>best of my recollection (without reviewing the whole

>>correspondence) I refrained (with difficulty, Im sure) from

>>calling him names in return."

 

>First of all, you really need to go back to school, or invest

>in a spell checker. How serious do you expect anyone to take

>you when you have the grammar and spelling of a 12 year old?

>

>*delicate

>*because

>*original

>*comparison

 

As I illustrated above, you spelling isn't quite perfect either. But with regards to my spelling, it leaves a lot to be desired which is one of the main reasons I never applied for a job in the steno pool.

But regardless of my spelling or typos, you still seem able to get my drift. One thing the internet does not need is another Miss Jean Brodie. There is very limited career advancement you can expect if you insist on filling the job of spelling police.

>

>Now, if you see an animal that walks like a duck, quacks like

>a duck, smells, acts and lives like a duck...its a damn duck.

>You are always on here, running people off, talking down to

>them and talking shit about this site and everyone in general.

>You cant go one day without arguing with someone. THAT MAKES

>YOU BITTER!!! LOL!!!!

 

No - not bitter, just uncomprehending as to how an upstart like you proposed to get through life with tunnel vision.

 

>Jesus, when was the last time you hired anyone,

 

This past weekend, actually.

 

or do you just

>sit here and talk shit and judge people? I mean, do you even

>HAVE a job? God.

 

Very good job, actually. I'm an interior designer, have my owen business and do quite well. Thank you for asking.

 

>">Why is it when some people can't argue against a statement

>>they fallback on name calling, such as "old, bored, troll,

>>bitter" etc?"

 

>Well usually, that would mean they have nothing else better to

>say, but in this case, it was said because it is true. Ever

>hear the saying "if you have nothing nice to say, shut the

>hell up?". Learn it, live it.

 

But I often have something nice to say. It's just that you may have selective reading skills and only dwell on what it enables you to engage in hurling insults at other posters.

 

>Funny, you mention Saving Private Ryan. That movie was a great

>inspiration. I thought you were a shitty person as it is, but

>damn, you just sunk a whole new low. Even the person who is

>shuffling papers in the fucking Navy should be respected and

>not have stupid comments like that which you just spewed.

 

There's your selective reading kicking in again. I never disparaged the military or the movie. I just wondered out loud if your militay career consisted of seeing the movie. Please don't read into a comment, something that is not there. It gets too confusing.

 

>Now,on my next combat tour, I hope you come with so you can see

>for yourself its not a joke.

 

 

Thank you for the invite, I'll pass. I have no stomach for the war or for the idiot man that started it. But I do hope you return safe and sound and in one piece.

\>ugh, what did I tell you about misspelling everything.

>

>*comparison.

 

Please see my above comments.

 

>Silly old man, you haven't a clue do you? I wasn't going to

>even bother. I mean, every time I type in response to the shit

>that spews from your immature, wrinkled mouth I feel sick. I

>understand that there are those of you who are reading this

>wondering why i do this. heres why. I am tired of this old

>fool being allowed to run his mouth to everyone. I wont put up

>with it, and if he doesn't chill, I bet his account

>mysteriously stops working. He does nothing positive, and I am

>tired of holding my mouth. he needs to leave.

 

Sounds like a threat to me - then again I'd have to ask, just who is the one flinging the insults around here.

 

One last thing - I'm not sure what your duties are in the military, but I hope for the sake of the country, it isn't in intelligence.

[SAdler]

So this is what it looks like from this angle Looking into a neighbor's glass house from my own ... quite charming

 

But since (knowing the ways these things progress) you two will continue this back and forth regardless, I feel the need to remind you that the precedent was set in the great QED debate in the days of yore that spelling and grammar (no matter how off it may be) isn't a point of contestation in these debates.

 

Carry on I should sit back and watch more often -- now I know people appear to enjoy it so much

[2hard2tame]

Oh god.

 

You are so pitiful, it is laughable. Sad, but still laughable.

Hitting a key 2 times is a mistake. But the way you BUTCHER words, and not on accident is something totally different.

But sure, even IF you counted that, I made what...one mistake vs every other word you fuck up?

 

 

 

"Yes I am sure you provide companionship, conversation and many other things. But if you really think that men contact you for whatever services you offer, and do not expect to have sex, which I would venture to guess is their primary desire, then you are either living in Lulu Land or you are trying to create an inocent image in case you are targeted by law enforcement."

 

 

yep, you are still stupidly delusional.

 

 

"Very good job, actually. I'm an interior designer, have my owen business and do quite well. Thank you for asking."

 

 

ugh, silly. Its *Own.

Like as I just verbally and mentally owned you. *wink

 

 

"Please don't read into a comment, something that is not there. It gets too confusing."

 

I can understand how just about anything is too confusing for someone with your lack of common sense.

 

 

"One last thing - I'm not sure what your duties are in the military, but I hope for the sake of the country, it isn't in intelligence."

 

 

Good god, do you not read? Well, you are a illiterate old fool, which we can add to the long list of things you are, an none of them good.

I recommend suicide. just remember, slit UP, not across.

 

 

 

 

 

Zippy, i can do this all night. Isnt it sad that in your old age of "wisdom", that I have gotten you to argue with someone 1/3 of your age on the internet? I mean, is that all you are good for? Now, run along cranky, and change your depends. You smell like piss.

[SAdler]

RE: ???

 

Wow ... hmmm ... ok I need to break this up

 

>Hey man, thanks for stating your opinion without any

>unnecessary BS. I both respect and appreciate it.

 

I like to avoid those things. Kind of senseless to bullshit in an open forum as I brought up when people questioned the validity of this poster -- no point in being full of shit unless you're only here to stir the pot. Those have been banned thus far

 

>Now. You say you think I am bitter and jealous of the circuit

>boys? No, not jealous. Could I do it Of course I could. I am

>confident I can do anything I put my mind too. However, I can

>not do that being I am in the military, and have a career

>there.

 

Well that's what I was afraid of ... I thought I might have been misread in that sense. As with anything in psychology, everything exists on a spectrum. I wouldn't call you jealous as an extreme, only say that you have some curiosity as to what the whole story is. By saying you're not ABLE to do that it confirms my expectations that because something isn't available to you, cognitive dissonance dictates you denigrate it. More power to you for serving bro, thanks for being there for this country.

 

>I do this part time, and am pretty picky about who I

>see. But, when it gets to the point that clients expect me to

>front my own travel, well that is not acceptable. And the

>reason why is because others do it.

 

I think it sounds like others have said and that you had a really bad experience and perhaps misunderstand the whole situation. I travel for fun, for circuit events, to see friends, hell to attain elite status on my airline before a deadline. While I'm in a given location I try to make some spending money and cut my costs like standard dinners and event tickets while Im in a given city.

 

For example, I have a friend's place I stay at in NYC and in Vegas as well. Airtravel is usually paid for by miles or a killer travel deal and all I'm paying for is my entertainment expenses -- better somebody else "pay" for them than me which is why I work when I travel. I just don't take incalls and tell whatever friend I'm hanging out with that I have family or another friend to see. No big deal, just maximization of the possible.

 

I have NEVER been told by a client that wanted to see me in a particular city that I should pay my own travel to get there. They too have said, I'll see you if you get to Philly or the like but over a couple years I've been told I'm sick of waiting, which flights work best for you I'll get you out here for a weekend. I think you're misreading client hope as expectation. Many domestic clients hope an escort will get to their city but by no means to they expect them to jump and have you fly yourself there for them.

 

>Oh, and the comment about

>spending money to make money? That is just ridiculous. Its

>quite enough I am spending my time and body, why should I do

>more? The fact is, escorts should not have to do so. Its too

>easy to forget us escorts in this thing. Its not clients doing

>an escort a favor by hiring, nor is it visa versa.

 

And I couldn't agree with you more -- If anything I'm one of the biggest advocates for escorts on these boards. I'm just saying you should think of the bigger picture and not jump to conclusions.

 

>If I client

>wants to see an escort, he should pay for travel. Plain and

>simple. You and I shouldn't have to revert to going to towns,

>paying hotel, rental and flights. This idea is what is killing

>the escort biz.

 

And nobody ever said that we HAD to. The fact that guys do though isn't something that should be held against them. As I've always said on these boards ... there are certainly "types" of escorts but each escort is an individual experience. Don't let the fact that certain escorts travel the country make you believe that it's because they travel that they get the appointments -- it's just a matter of convenience.

 

Clients aren't not seeing you because you don't travel as a negative thing -- they want to see you. They just can't afford to fly you out for an hour when there are other options in their neighborhood.

[2hard2tame]

RE: ???

 

Very well said. jesus christ. THAT is the way to agree to disagree. That is what forums like this are for. People to cite their differences and talk about them in a civil way. Not by throwing out little digs and smart ass comments.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate the way you handled yourself, and I wish you major luck in your endeavors. Also, I would love to maybe get together in a 3some scenario if it ever happens. You are pretty damn fine, and I think we could offer alot for a client. *wink.

[SAdler]

RE: ???

 

>Also, I would

>love to maybe get together in a 3some scenario if it ever

>happens. You are pretty damn fine, and I think we could offer

>alot for a client. *wink.

 

Sure ... lemme know when you fly yourself out to LA

 

... Sorry I couldn't resist!

[2hard2tame]

RE: ???

 

>>Also, I would

>>love to maybe get together in a 3some scenario if it ever

>>happens. You are pretty damn fine, and I think we could

>offer

>>alot for a client. *wink.

>

>Sure ... lemme know when you fly yourself out to LA

>

>... Sorry I couldn't resist!

 

 

 

*smacks self

 

I totally set myself up for that.

but, I will totally keep that in mind.

[augustman]

RE: ???

 

Oooo! That's the second hot combo of the day, first, Eric and Lynden, now thoughts of Scott and John and me in the middle. Sorry but winter has returned to my desolate spot, the skies are gray, the ground is turning dingy white and prospects of below zero for the weekend, I need my fantasies to keep me warm.

[MiamiLooker]

That you choose not to negotiate your fee is a business decision that you've made and evidently works for you, but keep in mind negotiating all aspects of a session incuding the fee has been going on long before you entered the business and will continue to go on long after you've retired. The business practices you've chosen don't necessarily work for everyone else. If a client begins to cross the line you've established, you can choose to accept it as just another quirk of doing business (after all, this is a business transaction for you, isn't it?) and deal with it in a business-like manner or you can take it as a personal affront.

 

BostonGuy has a post on MER that touches n this subject and is expressed much better than I can:

 

http://www.maleescortreview.com/dcscript/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=2458&mesg_id=2504&page=

[SAdler]

>That you choose not to negotiate your fee is a business

>decision that you've made and evidently works for you, but

>keep in mind negotiating all aspects of a session incuding the

>fee has been going on long before you entered the business and

>will continue to go on long after you've retired. The business

>practices you've chosen don't necessarily work for everyone

>else. If a client begins to cross the line you've established,

>you can choose to accept it as just another quirk of doing

>business (after all, this is a business transaction for you,

>isn't it?) and deal with it in a business-like manner or you

>can take it as a personal affront.

 

Thank you for your summary of BG's post that can be addressed by a simple head nod. What you as clients don't seem to understand is that no matter how much of a "business" transaction you WANT to turn it into ... it's far more than that.

 

It IS personal. If it weren't personal then every twink in the country could/would do it and there really wouldn't even be market rate because there'd be no market ... it would all basically be a free for all. Of course the TERMS are negotiated but the price is set by the escort. Who are you as the client to tell them that they have to bargain. What many do not understand is that I am not opposed to the entity of bargaining, I do it myself when I feel it's warranted. A client is picking up an extended air ticket for me to stay past our appointment in a certain city, multiple days, other reasons. But the choice to bargain IS UP TO THE ESCORT.

 

If you want to bring it back to a business transaction -- what you think is "fair" is like walking into Bestbuy and seeing a brand new top of the line plasma for $5000 and saying I'll give you $3000 for it. They'd think you were nuts. The store puts things on sale, not the consumer. What I've seen over the years on this board when clients complain about rates being too high is this sense of entitlement. They "deserve" escorts for whatever price they see fit as if they are the ONLY ones with a checking account and expendable income. It's not the case.

 

I totally respect your opinion about what aspects of this "business" warrant negotiations but frankly it can't be taken seriously until you've walked a mile in our chaps. I had a client reently that used to be an escort and now hires frequently. He is by no means in escorting shape to draw a picture but he lurks on the message boards regularly and we spent a good 45 minutes of dinner discussing the characters on these boards. As someone who has been in my shoes, I asked him point blank:

 

"Am I being unreasonable?"

"Are you kidding me, they don't know what it's like to escort and they never will. There's no way you can take any of them seriously."

 

That response goes to BG's post as well. I think it's bad form to post the other website's link here but c'est la vie. I'll probably copy and paste my content to BG so as to avoid retyping this whole thing.

[Barry]

>I think it's bad form to post the other website's link here but c'est la vie.

 

Why?

 

Barry

[Guest manrent1]

Scott, Scott, Scott - you seem like such a nice, bright young man - however a couple of thoughts related to your most recent post on this thread:

 

1) Don't lump all clients into the same basket - when you say things like "what you clients don't understand" it's condescending and doesn't come off the way you intended it to I'm afraid. Every client is different just as every escort is different.

 

2) As much as you don't want to admit it the transactions we are undertaking are indeed for the most part business transactions. If they weren't then every hot young boy from LA to NY would simply give away their time and services and not charge money. Take the "business" out of the transaction (i.e., remove the $$$) and I would bet you wouldn't be seeing nearly any of the guys you see on a regular basis.

While "you escorts" don't want to hear it - many clients take the Charlie Sheen attitude towards these transactions - Charlie said it best when he said "I don't pay them to stay, I pay them to leave" --

 

3) I'm totally with you on the negotiation issue though - I've never understood the constant complaining and dickering about rate - if you can't afford to play with the guy you want - then stop playing or find a guy you can afford.

[MiamiLooker]

>>That you choose not to negotiate your fee is a business

>>decision that you've made and evidently works for you, but

>>keep in mind negotiating all aspects of a session incuding

>the

>>fee has been going on long before you entered the business

>and

>>will continue to go on long after you've retired. The

>business

>>practices you've chosen don't necessarily work for everyone

>>else. If a client begins to cross the line you've

>established,

>>you can choose to accept it as just another quirk of doing

>>business (after all, this is a business transaction for you,

>>isn't it?) and deal with it in a business-like manner or you

>>can take it as a personal affront.

>

>Thank you for your summary of BG's post that can be addressed

>by a simple head nod. What you as clients don't seem to

>understand is that no matter how much of a "business"

>transaction you WANT to turn it into ... it's far more than

>that.

>

>It IS personal. If it weren't personal then every twink in

>the country could/would do it and there really wouldn't even

>be market rate because there'd be no market ... it would all

>basically be a free for all.

 

Well, I'm not really into twinks but I can assure you there are lots of guys working the "escort" angle that don't advertise on any site or in any gay mag. I don't know whether or not you consider them competition or not, but they are out there and available. Actually, it is kind of a free for all. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but in Florida there are plenty of guys peddling their wares.

 

Of course the TERMS are

>negotiated but the price is set by the escort.

 

Who are you as

>the client to tell them that they have to bargain.

 

I've NEVER said an escort HAD to bargain. But I don't see any big deal if a client suggests a fee. I know you don't like that, but being realistic, how are you going to educate the thousands of guys that hire of this. If there's one thing I've found in my years of hiring is that there really are no hard and fast rules.

 

 

What many

>do not understand is that I am not opposed to the entity of

>bargaining, I do it myself when I feel it's warranted.

 

So, you, as the customer, are making the decision to initiate the bargaining? Aren't you afraid the seller might take offense? How are you to know when it's appropriate or not, especially if it's a common practice?

 

A

>client is picking up an extended air ticket for me to stay

>past our appointment in a certain city, multiple days, other

>reasons. But the choice to bargain IS UP TO THE ESCORT.

 

Since bargaining takes two, I agree. If a client makes an offer, the escort can decline....no bargaining occurs. If you're so averse to the client (and especially a client that doen't know your policy) suggesting a fee, why not just state it in your ad or when you discuss your fee that it's not negotiable?

 

>

>If you want to bring it back to a business transaction -- what

>you think is "fair" is like walking into Bestbuy and seeing a

>brand new top of the line plasma for $5000 and saying I'll

>give you $3000 for it. They'd think you were nuts. The store

>puts things on sale, not the consumer. What I've seen over

>the years on this board when clients complain about rates

>being too high is this sense of entitlement. They "deserve"

>escorts for whatever price they see fit as if they are the

>ONLY ones with a checking account and expendable income. It's

>not the case.

 

I find posts from clients complaining about high rates to be silly.

 

>

>I totally respect your opinion about what aspects of this

>"business" warrant negotiations but frankly it can't be taken

>seriously until you've walked a mile in our chaps. I had a

>client reently that used to be an escort and now hires

>frequently. He is by no means in escorting shape to draw a

>picture but he lurks on the message boards regularly and we

>spent a good 45 minutes of dinner discussing the characters on

>these boards. As someone who has been in my shoes, I asked

>him point blank:

>

>"Am I being unreasonable?"

>"Are you kidding me, they don't know what it's like to escort

>and they never will. There's no way you can take any of them

>seriously."

>

>That response goes to BG's post as well. I think it's bad

>form to post the other website's link here but c'est la vie.

 

Why is that?

 

>I'll probably copy and paste my content to BG so as to avoid

>retyping this whole thing.

 

Your points are well taken, however, most of what you've posted has simply not been my experience. I never contact an escort if I know his fee is more than what I think a session with him is worth to me. Actually, I don't usually even make the initial contact. Once we've begun communication, whether I make the initial contact or the escort has contacted me, if I'm interested, I ask his fee; no need to waste the time of either of us. If the fee is more than I think the session is worth to me, I simply say no thanks. I would guess that 8 times out of 10, the escort then initiates the negotiation. Depending on my level of interest in the guy, I may or may not negotiate with him. As I said before, it's been my experience there are no hard and fast rules.

[SAdler]

Tangents for everyone!!!

 

Since this subthread was being backed into a corner in more ways than one I decided to free it

 

>>I think it's bad form to post the other website's link here but

>>c'est la vie.

 

>Why?

 

Barry – that was probably phrased incorrectly. I think what I was trying to get across is that these two websites are NOT linked together by anything besides the posters and several moderators overseeing both forums.

 

He could have just as easily copied the text or simply summarized. Forcing posters to go back and forth between forums on different websites is a bit monotonous.

 

>Scott, Scott, Scott - you seem like such a nice, bright young man –

 

Awww, seems?

 

>1) Don't lump all clients into the same basket - when you say things like "what you clients don't

>understand" it's condescending and doesn't come off the way you intended it to I'm afraid.

>Every client is different just as every escort is different.

 

I agree and that was definitely a rhetorical fallacy on my part. I should have said what those of you clients who don’t understand what I’m saying (which is at this point most responding) that would have been more clear. I figured those who were on the same page with me knew that they needn’t be grouped like cattle.

 

>2) As much as you don't want to admit it the transactions we are undertaking are indeed for the

>most part business transactions. If they weren't then every hot young boy from LA to NY would

>simply give away their time and services and not charge money. Take the "business" out of the

>transaction (i.e., remove the $$$) and I would bet you wouldn't be seeing nearly any of the guys

>you see on a regular basis.

 

Thanks for turning around what I said. Of course it’s a business transaction. Nobody is denying that. What I’m saying is that it’s not “just” cold business. There is most certainly a personal aspect to escorting and to trivialize it down to money in exchange for services is to demean it in definition. Sociology has shown there is a hierarchy in prostitution. There are street walkers and there are escorts and plenty in between. If you want someone to perform a service for a fee then checking out Vaseline alley is your best bet.

 

>While "you escorts" don't want to hear it - many clients take the Charlie Sheen attitude towards

>these transactions - Charlie said it best when he said "I don't pay them to stay, I pay them to

>leave" –

 

See above

 

>3) I'm totally with you on the negotiation issue though - I've never understood the constant

>complaining and dickering about rate - if you can't afford to play with the guy you want - then

>stop playing or find a guy you can afford.

 

That’s all I’m talking about. The point is that the client doesn’t understand the power that they have by walking away from the table. Three step principle:

 

1. Escort Quotes Rate

2. Client decides rate is more than he wants to pay

3. Escort needs money and appointment and offers to see client for less

 

By saying no thank you, the rate is too high you will INSTANTLY find out if an escort is willing to see you for less. Nobody is insulted, everyone gets what they want. When I receive that reply I politely say I’m sorry and to keep me in mind if they change their mind.

 

>Well, I'm not really into twinks but I can assure you there are lots of guys working the "escort"

>angle that don't advertise on any site or in any gay mag. I don't know whether or not you

>consider them competition or not, but they are out there and available. Actually, it is kind of a

>free for all. Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but in Florida there are plenty of

>guys peddling their wares.

 

Again – a poor choice of words. Twinks was just meant to be a more concrete word for boys or even men in this industry who work as escorts. I don’t consider anyone competition because I’m me and they are them. In addition I’m here to have fun, not make rent. It’s always great meeting other guys that don’t see this industry as a competitive forum where the only way to get ahead is putting someone else down. What I’m saying is that not EVERYONE that can do it does do it.

 

>I've NEVER said an escort HAD to bargain. But I don't see any big deal if a client suggests a

>fee. I know you don't like that, but being realistic, how are you going to educate the thousands

>of guys that hire of this. If there's one thing I've found in my years of hiring is that there really

>are no hard and fast rules.

 

You of course don’t see a big deal because you’re a client, not an escort. Suggesting a fee is simply saying that the escort isn’t “worth” the rate they’ve quoted for their time. You’re right, there are no hard and fast rules but there are senses of entitlement that seem to lack common courtesy. Just utilizing the golden rule. We’ve compared service for money concept to death on here but lets be blunt. If you were selling sex with yourself to people that you typically wouldn’t have sex with would you want to be told your rates weren’t fair? Because by offering a lower rate you are essentially saying that the rates being quoted to you aren’t fair enough to pay.

 

>>What many

>>do not understand is that I am not opposed to the entity of

>>bargaining, I do it myself when I feel it's warranted.

 

>So, you, as the customer, are making the decision to initiate the >bargaining? Aren't you afraid the seller might take offense? How >are you to know when it's appropriate or not, especially if it's a >common practice?

 

I don’t follow what you mean by this. I’m referring to instances in which I as the escort would be willing to negotiate with the client.

 

>Since bargaining takes two, I agree. If a client makes an offer, the escort can decline....no

>bargaining occurs. If you're so averse to the client (and especially a client that doen't know your

>policy) suggesting a fee, why not just state it in your ad or when you discuss your fee that it's

>not negotiable?

 

Because I don’t have an ad Only reviews and an occasional travel ad 

 

>Your points are well taken, however, most of what you've posted has simply not been my

>experience. I never contact an escort if I know his fee is more than what I think a session with

>him is worth to me. Actually, I don't usually even make the initial contact. Once we've begun

>communication, whether I make the initial contact or the escort has contacted me, if I'm

>interested, I ask his fee; no need to waste the time of either of us. If the fee is more than I think

>the session is worth to me, I simply say no thanks. I would guess that 8 times out of 10, the

>escort then initiates the negotiation. Depending on my level of interest in the guy, I may or may

>not negotiate with him. As I said before, it's been my experience there are no hard and fast rules

 

And that’s fine. What you don’t appear to be understanding is that negotiation like the above is perfect. It’s the people who specifically contact escorts that they know their rates are too high with the expectation of getting them to lower their price and thus waste their time is what I take issue with. It’s the people who hear a rate and suggest a much lower (or worse slightly lower) rate that I have a problem with. If the escort wants to negotiate that’s all the better for everyone involved, but leave it up to them.

[MiamiLooker]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

It’s the people

>who specifically contact escorts that they know their rates

>are too high with the expectation of getting them to lower

>their price and thus waste their time is what I take issue

>with.

 

I can understand why this would be annoying. I just don't see that there's much if anything you can do to stop it.

 

 

It’s the people who hear a rate and suggest a much

>lower (or worse slightly lower) rate that I have a problem

>with.

 

Again, I don't see how you can control whether or not a prospective client makes you an offer. Once you hear it, I suppose you can stop the conversation. What else can you do?

 

>If the escort wants to negotiate that’s all the better

>for everyone involved, but leave it up to them.

>

 

But you don't speak for every escort. One escort that I had politely declined after hearing his fee later told me he couldn't understand why I didn't come back with a counter offer. He told me he'd never had someone do that.

 

I don't know if my situation is different than most others, but I usually don't hire in advance; an hour session is fine; not interested in any chitchat; prefer to hire only local guys; if you want dinner, you'd better eat before you get here; and please leave as soon as we're done....

[augustman]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

Not here to comment specifically about my opinion on rates or negotiation, but wanted to relay recent experience on this subject matter.

 

I contacted a traveling escort about visiting me for a three hour appt and would have to tavel and 1 hour+ each way. Because of the travel I usually ask for longer appt to make it more appealing. Escort did not post a rate but used varies. After agreeing to time/place/duration, I asked the fee. He stated "I would normally charge $800 because with travel it would be like an all day appt", he had not finished stating the rate when he immediately asked what I was interested in paying. So much for stating a rate and allowing me to decline. I offered the average amount I normally pay for these types of outings plus the travel. He agreed but was sure to mention to me how I was getting a great rate. After he arrived he made sure to mention the rate issue again. Sorry I was put off by this. Once agreed to by both parties, the issue should never come up again.

 

It is because of situations like this that I actually do not like when guys want to initiate "negoatiations". Quote me rate (Note unlike ML, I only do muti-hour appts, I do not have the luxury of living in a location that has more than two guys working it) I'll say yes or no and move on. I hate the words, "Well how much do you want to pay" When things start out that way my success rate is usually 50/50. Twice I have had an escort berate me for being cheap and trying to prey on guys. Beleive me I only offered what I have paid to some excellent guys none of whom thought that I was being cheap.

[+ Charlie]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

Some people enjoy negotiating--it's part of the fun of purchasing or selling something, including escort services. Some people hate it--they just want to tell or be told a price, accept it or reject it, and drop the topic. A problem arises only when a client of one type meets an escort of the other. There is no ethical or etiquette issue here.

[MiamiLooker]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

>There is no ethical or etiquette issue here.

 

You are right on the mark.

[SAdler]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

>Some people enjoy negotiating--it's part of the fun of

>purchasing or selling something, including escort services.

 

Hmmm ... therein lies the major issue ... right on the mark as Miami says. Escort services are a gray area because while they are services ... you're dealing with someONE not someTHING.

[+ purplekow]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

You are actually dealing with someone, the escort or the client, about something, their time or their money. Remember it is assumed that any money exchanged is for the escort's time and that any activity is just that between two consenting adults. I only bring this up because I hope this thread will end at 100.

[+ purplekow]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

>. I only bring this up because I hope this thread will

>end at 100.

 

 

I have my fingers, toes and even my balls crossed that this is the end.

[IceFireWizard]

RE: Tangents for everyone!!!

 

> I only bring this up because I hope this thread will end at 100.

 

Sigh! I don't see the end in my crystal ball ... :+ ;-)